UCSF vs. Brown vs. Columbia (WL)

[ricepilaf]

Hi everyone! I’m very grateful to have these options, but I'm struggling a bit with how to weigh different variables when making a final choice. I really appreciate any advice/insights/thoughts about other factors to consider.

Some general background: I’m interested in academic medicine. I don’t know what specialty, but as of now thinking about psychiatry, peds, or internal medicine, probably with fellowship. I’m originally from New England and would love to end up back there long-term.

I don’t have financial aid for both schools yet, but unless Brown is unexpectedly generous, I think UCSF will end up costing ~50k more over 4 years, factoring in the cost of attendance estimates for both schools.

UCSF

Pros:

• Better reputation/more prestige in medicine
• Current students seem happy + say positive things about faculty mentorship and support
• Pass/fail clerkships
• Proximity to nature/outdoor activities
• Better weather
• Lots of things to do in the city — feels like it would be easier to build an identity beyond being a med student
• So many mentors and people I look up to in medicine trained/worked here, so it feels very cool to have the opportunity to go

Cons:

• Far from family (all on East Coast)
• Went to college in California and didn’t love it — this is heavily confounded by interruptions due to COVID and some personal stuff but is part of my ambivalence with moving cross-country again
• Higher cost of living — I live in Manhattan now, so I’m not super fazed by this but definitely a consideration
• People (who don’t life in SF) have told me that SF is “really bad right now” — not sure what to make of this, hoping visiting will help
• Heavy in-state bias makes me feel like maybe I won’t fit in?

Brown

Pros:

• Lowest COL option
• I’m interested in medical humanities things and feel like the offerings are pretty robust here
• Closest to family (~4 hour drive)
• Matches well in the Northeast
• I have friends in Boston, which is reasonably close
• Might be nice to be back in New England

Cons

• No pass/fail clerkships + AOA (I think)
• Providence as a place seems very Brown-centric — especially coming from NYC, worried that it might feel small/might be difficult to find things to do/an identity beyond being a medical student
• Lower ranking/prestige compared to other options

Columbia (WL)

Pros:

• Already have friends/support networks in New York
• Fairly robust medical humanities/narrative medicine program
• Medical + lay prestige
• Closer to family (1.5 hour flight or 8 hour train)
• Lots of things to do in the city — feels like it would be easier to build an identity beyond being a med student

Cons:

• Higher tuition + Higher COL — most expensive option, possibly by ~150k
• No p/f clerkships
• After two years, I’m not convinced that the benefits of Manhattan outweigh the cons (lack of space, lack of nature, high rent, etc.) for me — 6 years in NY feels like a lot
• Anecdotal reports about bad experiences with competition/admin here — I have also heard good things but seems like a larger proportion of negative comments here than other options

Summary: I’m trying to figure out if the prestige and pass/fail grading at UCSF is worth paying a bit more and living further from family. I have no idea if Columbia will end up being an option, but it’s in there as a closer-to-home + more prestigious choice. I’m not 100% sold on Manhattan though and not psyched about potentially paying a lot more to go there. I’ll be attending Second Look for both UCSF and Brown, but they’re kind of late in April, so I’m trying to gather as much information as I can beforehand.

Thanks for reading!

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[pablo213]

Paging @MercifulCamper

Hope you get fin aid packages soon 🤞

 

[MercifulCamper]

Hi everyone! I’m very grateful to have these options, but I'm struggling a bit with how to weigh different variables when making a final choice. I really appreciate any advice/insights/thoughts about other factors to consider.

Some general background: I’m interested in academic medicine. I don’t know what specialty, but as of now thinking about psychiatry, peds, or internal medicine, probably with fellowship. I’m originally from New England and would love to end up back there long-term.

I don’t have financial aid for both schools yet, but unless Brown is unexpectedly generous, I think UCSF will end up costing ~50k more over 4 years, factoring in the cost of attendance estimates for both schools.

UCSF

Pros:

• Better reputation/more prestige in medicine
• Current students seem happy + say positive things about faculty mentorship and support
• Pass/fail clerkships
• Proximity to nature/outdoor activities
• Better weather
• Lots of things to do in the city — feels like it would be easier to build an identity beyond being a med student
• So many mentors and people I look up to in medicine trained/worked here, so it feels very cool to have the opportunity to go

Cons:

• Far from family (all on East Coast)
• Went to college in California and didn’t love it — this is heavily confounded by interruptions due to COVID and some personal stuff but is part of my ambivalence with moving cross-country again
• Higher cost of living — I live in Manhattan now, so I’m not super fazed by this but definitely a consideration
• People (who don’t life in SF) have told me that SF is “really bad right now” — not sure what to make of this, hoping visiting will help
• Heavy in-state bias makes me feel like maybe I won’t fit in?

Brown

Pros:

• Lowest COL option
• I’m interested in medical humanities things and feel like the offerings are pretty robust here
• Closest to family (~4 hour drive)
• Matches well in the Northeast
• I have friends in Boston, which is reasonably close
• Might be nice to be back in New England

Cons

• No pass/fail clerkships + AOA (I think)
• Providence as a place seems very Brown-centric — especially coming from NYC, worried that it might feel small/might be difficult to find things to do/an identity beyond being a medical student
• Lower ranking/prestige compared to other options

Columbia (WL)

Pros:

• Already have friends/support networks in New York
• Fairly robust medical humanities/narrative medicine program
• Medical + lay prestige
• Closer to family (1.5 hour flight or 8 hour train)
• Lots of things to do in the city — feels like it would be easier to build an identity beyond being a med student

Cons:

• Higher tuition + Higher COL — most expensive option, possibly by ~150k
• No p/f clerkships
• After two years, I’m not convinced that the benefits of Manhattan outweigh the cons (lack of space, lack of nature, high rent, etc.) for me — 6 years in NY feels like a lot
• Anecdotal reports about bad experiences with competition/admin here — I have also heard good things but seems like a larger proportion of negative comments here than other options

Summary: I’m trying to figure out if the prestige and pass/fail grading at UCSF is worth paying a bit more and living further from family. I have no idea if Columbia will end up being an option, but it’s in there as a closer-to-home + more prestigious choice. I’m not 100% sold on Manhattan though and not psyched about potentially paying a lot more to go there. I’ll be attending Second Look for both UCSF and Brown, but they’re kind of late in April, so I’m trying to gather as much information as I can beforehand.

Thanks for reading!

Hey there - congrats on these great options. I think it's tough to make a call here yet until you get your aid packages.

However based on your pros/cons you've listed I objectively think UCSF would be better for you (even if you were to go into ~50 K more of debt.

Here’s my thoughts:

1. You're undifferentiated in terms of specialty, which is totally normal, and UCSF offers max flexibility to go into anything. UCSF has almost ever specialty and subspecialty you can find - so you'll be able to find a mentor/research here in your subject matter. I think Brown has almost everything as well but I know their strong suit is primary care, and they take great pride in that rightfully so. UCSF also has great primary care. (Point for UCSF)

2. P/F in clerkship ain't no joke. It's nice to have and should be worth something monetarily for you - how much is subjective. (Point for UCSF)

3. If you're from the East Coast, you will have 0 trouble matching back there for residency from either of these places - so that's a wash between the schools. (Tie)

4. Proximity to family - it seems like based on your post Brown would be closer, but not close enough that you support network would actually be there? But still it's nice to easily pop over on a weekend back home or travel back for any urgent matters. (Point for Brown)

I think those with financial aid are the main factors you should consider.

Other points to address:

Weather is much nicer on the West Coast

SF has some troubling areas for sure, although in my opinion some of it has improved since I got here. However the places in which UCSF is situated are very safe. You'll see when you come visit.

 

[ricepilaf]

Hey there - congrats on these great options. I think it's tough to make a call here yet until you get your aid packages.

However based on your pros/cons you've listed I objectively think UCSF would be better for you (even if you were to go into ~50 K more of debt.

Here’s my thoughts:

1. You're undifferentiated in terms of specialty, which is totally normal, and UCSF offers max flexibility to go into anything. UCSF has almost ever specialty and subspecialty you can find - so you'll be able to find a mentor/research here in your subject matter. I think Brown has almost everything as well but I know their strong suit is primary care, and they take great pride in that rightfully so. UCSF also has great primary care. (Point for UCSF)

2. P/F in clerkship ain't no joke. It's nice to have and should be worth something monetarily for you - how much is subjective. (Point for UCSF)

3. If you're from the East Coast, you will have 0 trouble matching back there for residency from either of these places - so that's a wash between the schools. (Tie)

4. Proximity to family - it seems like based on your post Brown would be closer, but not close enough that you support network would actually be there? But still it's nice to easily pop over on a weekend back home or travel back for any urgent matters. (Point for Brown)

I think those with financial aid are the main factors you should consider.

Other points to address:

Weather is much nicer on the West Coast

SF has some troubling areas for sure, although in my opinion some of it has improved since I got here. However the places in which UCSF is situated are very safe. You'll see when you come visit.

Thank you!! Really appreciate your thoughts and insight. I'll hope for full financial aid information soon and see if that tips the needle heavily in either direction.