Ugh why do all letter writers want to see my personal statement?

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neuro17

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Hi all,

I'll be applying this June and I'm in the process of getting my transcripts, personal statement, LORs sent to the pre-med committee/panel at my college. I graduated last May.

I'll have 3 LORs coming from my undergrad (2 science, 1 non-science) in addition to 2 LORs from PIs (who are also doctors).
The 3 professors have all asked for my transcript, resume, and personal statement before they start writing the letter. I know it is common for letter writers to want to see a personal statement before they write, but I'm really having trouble getting this done. All LORs are due in April for the committee. Which of these options sounds best?

1 - Send my professors my resume and transcript for now, and let them know I will follow up with my personal statement within the next couple of weeks. Maybe this will allow them to at least get started and they can add stuff when they have my PS?

2 - Relax and send them everything (resume, transcript, PS) in one tidy email when I finally have my statement done?

..Sorry this sounds totally neurotic (as does most stuff I read on SDN), but I really want to have strong LORs and I want my professors to have plenty of time to write them.

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I fail to see why your LOR writers are demanding a copy of your PS/transcript/resume etc. Adcoms can see those stuff already and its essentially a waste of a letter to rehash all that. Are you sure your LOR writers can't write anything about you outside of what you did? Like personality, diligence, teamwork, leadership qualities, etc.?
 
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I fail to see why your LOR writers are demanding a copy of your PS/transcript/resume etc. Adcoms can see those stuff already and its essentially a waste of a letter to rehash all that. Are you sure your LOR writers can't write anything about you outside of what you did? Like personality, diligence, teamwork, leadership qualities, etc.?

Yeah, I'm sure they will. I think they want those documents so they can learn a few extra things about me and maybe tie those things into their letters. Anyway, based on your response it seems like you're saying I shouldn't send them anything at all? which isn't really an option and would be kind of disrespectful to my former professors...
 
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I fail to see why your LOR writers are demanding a copy of your PS/transcript/resume etc. Adcoms can see those stuff already and its essentially a waste of a letter to rehash all that. Are you sure your LOR writers can't write anything about you outside of what you did? Like personality, diligence, teamwork, leadership qualities, etc.?

Probably because they don't actually know OP as much as he thinks and they need more info to go on.
 
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Probably because they don't actually know OP as much as he thinks and they need more info to go on.

*she

They each know me decently well. I don't think it's fair to assume that your letter writers will just be able to spew out a fantastic letter without having a little bit of material to support that. For instance, having my GPA, all my coursework, my extracurriculars outside of science, and my motivations for entering medicine written down on paper is helpful. I would suggest you supply the same documents to your letter writers when you apply to medical school - even if you think your letter writers know your whole life story.
 
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Yeah, I'm sure they will. I think they want those documents so they can learn a few extra things about me and maybe tie those things into their letters. Anyway, based on your response it seems like you're saying I shouldn't send them anything at all? which isn't really an option and would be kind of disrespectful to my former professors...

Try scheduling some time to meet with your LOR writers, discuss current events and refresh on the old stuff.

*she

They each know me decently well. I don't think it's fair to assume that your letter writers will just be able to spew out a fantastic letter without having a little bit of material to support that. For instance, having my GPA, all my coursework, my extracurriculars outside of science, and my motivations for entering medicine written down on paper is helpful. I would suggest you supply the same documents to your letter writers when you apply to medical school - even if you think your letter writers know your whole life story.

The LOR writers shouldn't be using your PS/ECs/experiences to write about you. They should be focusing mainly on your humanistic side. Discussing/refreshing matters in person will provide them a much needed background without having to consult on what adcoms can easily see
 
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I think this is a pretty common request, as I know my premed advisor encouraged kids to include the PS along with a resume/etc. to all interested letter writers. That way, they know how you're presenting yourself in your application and can use that as a guide. So I think 1 is the best move in your case if they've already asked - that way, you let them know it's on the way, and they don't wonder what happened to you in the meantime.
 
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CV+PS+unofficial transcript+Interfolio link+letter of intent made up my LOR packet and i included it by default on every LOR request. I was told by most of my writers that they are willing to expedite letters if the student was ready on the get go. I got 5 day turnarounds. Even though many did not use content from my personal statement, I am guessing that they just like to have some perspective to personalize the letter.
 
In my experience, this is common. I always provide letter writers with my CV and PS when I ask. I just drafted up a temporary PS for this purpose. Definitely won't be what I submit to AMCAS.
 
You should provide everything you can to help your letter writer prepare the best letter he or she can. Not every letter writer can lay down > 1 page of insightful personal anecdotes that tell the review committee about your hopes and dreams and the content of your immortal soul. Also, with all due respect, I'm not certain at your career stage you know what letter content best represents you to an admissions committee.

I'm asked to write dozens of letters every application cycle, for MD school, residency, fellowships, grant applications, etc. I couldn't write them all off the top of my head, and I definitely don't know many students well enough to have a running list of important characteristics in my head for each person rotating through my lab or clinical service. Most of my letters highlight some of your other activities within the context of what you've done with me. I read bad letters all the time that just try to provide reassurances without any context, stuff like "she is a great team-mate and works hard to accomplish all of her goals", and "he has so much passion for the medical field and possesses unusually keen intelligence and creativity". Uh, OK. Including concrete information in this sea of worthless platitudes helps to add gravity to such sweeping statements. I can get that information from your CV.

Also, lists of extracurriculars presented elsewhere in your application don't provide any context or define relative importance. A good letter can do that. When I review hundreds of residency and fellowship applications each year, I rely on good letters from well-known faculty to help me get to know the applicant on paper -- it is far more digestible than list after list of scores and activities, and a good letter provides this insight and valence. So even when a letter mentions some of the same things that appear elsewhere in your application, it's not like it's a waste. The people who review your applications are not robots.

At your stage, I write the whole letter because you guys don't know how to do it yet, but later on the expectation is that if you need a letter, you draft the letter yourself first, and I edit it (some more than others). No one should care about your letter as much as you do, and writing a good letter takes a lot of time and practice. Believe me, a lot of the letters I read, particularly from clinical faculty who aren't frequently in the position to act as a reviewer, are terrible.

OP: send them whatever you have now. A draft PS is fine. Your goal should be to make this process easy for them, not wait until everything is perfect for you, and then ask them to fit it into their schedule on a more restricted timeline.
 
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You should provide everything you can to help your letter writer prepare the best letter he or she can. Not every letter writer can lay down > 1 page of insightful personal anecdotes that tell the review committee about your hopes and dreams and the content of your immortal soul. Also, with all due respect, I'm not certain at your career stage you know what letter content best represents you to an admissions committee.

I'm asked to write dozens of letters every application cycle, for MD school, residency, fellowships, grant applications, etc. I couldn't write them all off the top of my head, and I definitely don't know many students well enough to have a running list of important characteristics in my head for each person rotating through my lab or clinical service. Most of my letters highlight some of your other activities within the context of what you've done with me. I read bad letters all the time that just try to provide reassurances without any context, stuff like "she is a great team-mate and works hard to accomplish all of her goals", and "he has so much passion for the medical field and possesses unusually keen intelligence and creativity". Uh, OK. Including concrete information in this sea of worthless platitudes helps to add gravity to such sweeping statements. I can get that information from your CV.

Also, lists of extracurriculars presented elsewhere in your application don't provide any context or define relative importance. A good letter can do that. When I review hundreds of residency and fellowship applications each year, I rely on good letters from well-known faculty to help me get to know the applicant on paper -- it is far more digestible than list after list of scores and activities, and a good letter provides this insight and valence. So even when a letter mentions some of the same things that appear elsewhere in your application, it's not like it's a waste. The people who review your applications are not robots.

At your stage, I write the whole letter because you guys don't know how to do it yet, but later on the expectation is that if you need a letter, you draft the letter yourself first, and I edit it (some more than others). No one should care about your letter as much as you do, and writing a good letter takes a lot of time and practice. Believe me, a lot of the letters I read, particularly from clinical faculty who aren't frequently in the position to act as a reviewer, are terrible.

OP: send them whatever you have now. A draft PS is fine. Your goal should be to make this process easy for them, not wait until everything is perfect for you, and then ask them to fit it into their schedule on a more restricted timeline.

For medical school admissions, would you recommend applicants give their letter writers a "list" of anecdotes or examples that show qualities that are desirable in a physician (the core competencies)? Of course I would preface it by saying that if they feel it's appropriate and that they actually agree with the anecdotes and examples I have provided.

Thank you for this super helpful post, btw. I can totally see why merely listing qualities without concrete evidence or examples would not be persuasive or ideal.
 
For medical school admissions, would you recommend applicants give their letter writers a "list" of anecdotes or examples that show qualities that are desirable in a physician (the core competencies)? Of course I would preface it by saying that if they feel it's appropriate and that they actually agree with the anecdotes and examples I have provided.

Thank you for this super helpful post, btw. I can totally see why merely listing qualities without concrete evidence or examples would not be persuasive or ideal.

Well I think any personal anecdotes you reinforce should be specific to what the writer has observed. We know (or should know) the characteristics that are ideal to highlight in any letter for a physician in training. You can provide a summary of what you've done with them to nudge them in that direction, i.e. a bullet point list of things like "led a team of coordinators to update the lab database while actively carrying a full course load", or "stayed with an upset clinic patient after our visit to comfort him until his family member returned to pick him up". That helps because honestly we forget things.

As before, you want to give your writers all the tools they need to best represent you. You want to "manage up", which is a skill you should be learning at this phase of your career. Later, you will write the draft yourself and put these anecdotes in as illustrative examples for your letter writer to review. That's actually easier because it avoids this tortured intermediate stage of providing much of the content in an unfocused format without drafting the letter.
 
Yea, a draft PS is perfectly fine. You should be able to crank one out in a week or two with more than enough time for people to write your LORs. It's annoying but look at it as if they're doing you a favor in forcing you to start working on your PS now.
 
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I'm going to go against the tide here.
See https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/admissionsinitiative/letters/ for information on what AAMC and the medical schools are looking for.

The letter shouldn't be a rehash of your PS or your CV. It should not be anything that the professor (or other writer) has not personally observed. I would suggest providing the writer with the papers or reports you wrote for the class and other material of that nature.

The one time when a LOR writer can help you is when there is something to explain about your grades that they knew at the time but may have forgotten... e.g. you lost 2 weeks of school when your grandparents died within weeks of each other causing you to do poorly in the course and then repeat it over the summer for a much improved grade. Something like that puts the explanation in the LOR and gives it additional validity.
 
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Providing letter writers with a copy of your CV and PS is common practice (includes med school, residency, and fellowship applications).

Most high level faculty will expect both so that they can 1) know the applicant's personal history in greater detail and 2) give their letter the appropriate context.
 
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I'm curious on @mimelim thoughts in this matter. Also, just because it's a common practice doesn't mean it's a wise move. There is no reason to give your resume/PS to your LOR writers for them to summarize/rehash what they can say. It's a far better idea to schedule an in-person appointment and really spend the time discussing/refreshing what happened
 
I think the reason it's a relatively common practice for LOR writers (especially science profs) to ask for a PS is because most people probably don't have as close of a relationship with their profs as they think. In my experience, at least, the people who asked for my CV were profs who definitely knew me but probably not particularly well. My PIs and work supervisors, on the other hand, didn't ask for anything because I've known and worked very closely with them for years. I understand that the ideal scenario is to ask a professor that you've worked closely with in some way or maybe have taken several classes with over the course of college. But it does seem kind of unrealistic to expect a professor to have a strong sense of any given student's qualities that would make them a good physician. I honestly think that most LORs from professors, at least, are BS in this regard.

But I agree that it's probably better to meet with them in person and talk about your goals / your experience in their classes, etc. Hopefully, they'll come away from this meeting with a more general sense of who are you, rather than something generic that they can copy/paste into a letter.

Maybe you can send a politely worded email, saying that your PS is still in draft mode and offering to meet in person?
 
I think the reason it's a relatively common practice for LOR writers (especially science profs) to ask for a PS is because most people probably don't have as close of a relationship with their profs as they think. In my experience, at least, the people who asked for my CV were profs who definitely knew me but probably not particularly well. My PIs and work supervisors, on the other hand, didn't ask for anything because I've known and worked very closely with them for years. I understand that the ideal scenario is to ask a professor that you've worked closely with in some way or maybe have taken several classes with over the course of college. But it does seem kind of unrealistic to expect a professor to have a strong sense of any given student's qualities that would make them a good physician. I honestly think that most LORs from professors, at least, are BS in this regard.

But I agree that it's probably better to meet with them in person and talk about your goals / your experience in their classes, etc. Hopefully, they'll come away from this meeting with a more general sense of who are you, rather than something generic that they can copy/paste into a letter.

Maybe you can send a politely worded email, saying that your PS is still in draft mode and offering to meet in person?

I was in the same boat. My PI from undergrad didn't require anything because she knew me but I also worked with her for 3.5 years. I think it's unrealistic to expect that a professor know you on that level over the course of a few months. If these are your best options, give them what they need so you can get the letter and move on...
 
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I'm going to go against the tide here.
See https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/admissionsinitiative/letters/ for information on what AAMC and the medical schools are looking for.

The letter shouldn't be a rehash of your PS or your CV. It should not be anything that the professor (or other writer) has not personally observed. I would suggest providing the writer with the papers or reports you wrote for the class and other material of that nature.

The one time when a LOR writer can help you is when there is something to explain about your grades that they knew at the time but may have forgotten... e.g. you lost 2 weeks of school when your grandparents died within weeks of each other causing you to do poorly in the course and then repeat it over the summer for a much improved grade. Something like that puts the explanation in the LOR and gives it additional validity.

In an ideal world, I agree with you. A strong LOR is going to come from people who have enough experience with you to recommend you for whatever you are applying for without additional prompting. I think that an in person meeting should be standard so that the letter can be focused and maximally beneficial to the applicant. However, the reality is that the majority of students despite opportunities to do so do NOT develop these types of relationships with faculty/PIs, etc. Thus, most faculty get a ton of requests from students. It is a sham and a waste of time and energy on many people's parts. They either say, "He is nice" or regurgitate grades/other parts of the application and functionally do nothing. Many are also not willing to invest a ton in these students and won't even bother meeting with them, instead electing to use their template and fill in the blanks with things from their personal statement and a few adjustments.

#1 I think that applicants should avoid this situation at all costs and putting faculty in this position in the first place.
#2 Given the lack of foresight on the part of applicants, if you find yourself in this position, the best thing to do is to give the staff what they ask for and accept that you are simply not going to get a strong letter out of it.

I'm curious on @mimelim thoughts in this matter. Also, just because it's a common practice doesn't mean it's a wise move. There is no reason to give your resume/PS to your LOR writers for them to summarize/rehash what they can say. It's a far better idea to schedule an in-person appointment and really spend the time discussing/refreshing what happened
 
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I fail to see why your LOR writers are demanding a copy of your PS/transcript/resume etc. Adcoms can see those stuff already and its essentially a waste of a letter to rehash all that. Are you sure your LOR writers can't write anything about you outside of what you did? Like personality, diligence, teamwork, leadership qualities, etc.?
I applaud the letter writers who live up to their role as mentors by taking a look at the whole package. If more of them did this, it would be the end of the <18 (489) MCAT application.
 
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I applaud the letters writer who live up to their role as mentors by taking a look at the whole package. If more of them did this they would be able to provide feedback to the folks whose applications are not nearly ready. It would be the end of the <18 (489) MCAT application.

People send in apps with those numbers?
 
Four out of 6 of my letter writers didn't ask for my personal statement. But one of them said that it would be helpful (though not necessary) to read my PS and see how I discussed my experience doing research with him. He just wanted to see what I highlighted about the experience so that he could make sure to touch on specific examples in his letter that would support/echo my statements about the experience. Another writer did not have experience writing letters for med school applicants and just wanted to get a feel for the tone and focus of my application. This writer knew me very well (4 years) in a nonmedical setting, so I'm sure that there's nothing in my statement that he would have regurgitated in his letter. But, he told me that it really helped him get a sense for "the parts of yourself that you chose to highlight in your application."

I think that it's not ideal for letter writers to feel that they need to read your PS to be able to write you a letter, as this is an indication that they might not know you as well as you think. But in other cases, I think giving them a PS or PS draft can be helpful in terms of forming a cohesive, comprehensive application where all your letter writers "echo" but not "regurgitate" what you say about yourself.
 
As others have mentioned, seeing your PS/CV/etc. can help understand your accomplishments and goals in a wider context. I agree with @mimelim that the people you ask to write your letters shouldn't need those things to be able to write a great letter for you. Ideally, you will have built a relationship with them or worked with them to a sufficient degree such that they have learned these things through your interactions with you. However, even if that happens seeing how you discuss your experiences in the context of being a physician can be helpful. It can assist in providing a cogent narrative in your application.

If I were to write a letter for someone, I would still request these materials even if I knew them well. It might give me information about the person that I didn't know before in addition to providing context for the letter as mentioned above. This is fairly standard practice. If nothing else, it will encourage you to get your PS - or at least a draft - done early so that you don't have to scramble to get it done when you're submitting your application.
 
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I think that it's not ideal for letter writers to feel that they need to read your PS to be able to write you a letter, as this is an indication that they might not know you as well as you think. But in other cases, I think giving them a PS or PS draft can be helpful in terms of forming a cohesive, comprehensive application where all your letter writers "echo" but not "regurgitate" what you say about yourself.

As others have mentioned, seeing your PS/CV/etc. can help understand your accomplishments and goals in a wider context. I agree with @mimelim that the people you ask to write your letters shouldn't need those things to be able to write a great letter for you.

I really appreciate everyone's input. I'm fortunate that my letter writers don't "need" to see my PS, but thought it would be helpful to contextualize their letter. I know the former is the case for a great deal of applicants.

Best of luck to everyone readying their apps this cycle!
 
If every letter writer had to sit down and write a medical school applicant's letter from scratch, you would get three things: (1) letters that don't establish personal observations in a broader context, leaving that work up to the reader, (2) an inability to reinforce particular aspects of the application that the applicant would like to bring out, and (3) selection against faculty with a large pool of proteges. Unless you're going to lend equal weight to a post-doc's letter of recommendation compared with a tenured faculty member, then by definition you're going to get a lower level of one-on-one experience in exchange for a better contextualization of the student in question against his or her peers.

I don't think anyone is saying that your letter writers should get your CV and personal statement so they can use them as filler in the central paragraphs of the letter. Whoever does that either can't write or doesn't know you. But for the three reasons listed above, a little leg work ahead of time results in a better-crafted letter that provides personal experiences and observations in a broader context, reinforces the central themes of the application, and usefully ranks the student/resident/fellow/faculty member amongst their peers.
 
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If every letter writer had to sit down and write a medical school applicant's letter from scratch, you would get three things: (1) letters that don't establish personal observations in a broader context, leaving that work up to the reader, (2) an inability to reinforce particular aspects of the application that the applicant would like to bring out, and (3) selection against faculty with a large pool of proteges.

I don't think anyone is saying that your letter writers should get your CV and personal statement so they can use them as filler in the central paragraphs of the letter.

couldn't have said it better myself.
 
I think this is a pretty common request, as I know my premed advisor encouraged kids to include the PS along with a resume/etc. to all interested letter writers. That way, they know how you're presenting yourself in your application and can use that as a guide. So I think 1 is the best move in your case if they've already asked - that way, you let them know it's on the way, and they don't wonder what happened to you in the meantime.

I agree. I believe it is pretty reasonable for pre-med advisors and/or committees to request your personal statement, MCAT, and perhaps even your resume. I know for my school, my committee letter was based in part on my MCAT as well as how I presented myself in their committee interview.

I also provide all LOR writers with a CV. I have had people whom I have known for years still request a CV despite knowing me well enough to be able to write about my personality, communication skills, motivation, and honesty.
 
I also provide all LOR writers with a CV. I have had people whom I have known for years still request a CV despite knowing me well enough to be able to write about my personality, communication skills, motivation, and honesty.

How does your CV in any way provide information about your personality, communication skills, motivation or honesty?
 
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Re: topic title - because they want to write you a good letter? You should be grateful that they care to see the larger picture of your motivations for medicine outside the individual context through which they mentored you.

Send them a (good) draft along with your resume/CV/transcript as soon as they are available. They don't need the final polished copy--just something to gather some insight into you as an applicant.
 
I applaud the letter writers who live up to their role as mentors by taking a look at the whole package. If more of them did this, it would be the end of the <18 (489) MCAT application.

That sounds like a good deterrence but such applicants will still somehow apply.

If every letter writer had to sit down and write a medical school applicant's letter from scratch, you would get three things: (1) letters that don't establish personal observations in a broader context, leaving that work up to the reader, (2) an inability to reinforce particular aspects of the application that the applicant would like to bring out, and (3) selection against faculty with a large pool of proteges. Unless you're going to lend equal weight to a post-doc's letter of recommendation compared with a tenured faculty member, then by definition you're going to get a lower level of one-on-one experience in exchange for a better contextualization of the student in question against his or her peers.

I don't think anyone is saying that your letter writers should get your CV and personal statement so they can use them as filler in the central paragraphs of the letter. Whoever does that either can't write or doesn't know you. But for the three reasons listed above, a little leg work ahead of time results in a better-crafted letter that provides personal experiences and observations in a broader context, reinforces the central themes of the application, and usefully ranks the student/resident/fellow/faculty member amongst their peers.

Thats an interesting perspective but why cant an in-person meeting accomplish those objectives? What advantage does the CV/PS have over the meeting?
 
Thats an interesting perspective but why cant an in-person meeting accomplish those objectives? What advantage does the CV/PS have over the meeting?

In principle it would, although you're putting more of the onus on me. You want my admin to find time on my schedule, and then what? You want me to take notes of our encounter that I can review when writing your letter?

Most weeks I don't have 30 mins of time to give for such a purpose. I'm not a college lecturer with office hours. Send me something to review and I'll get it done after the kids are in bed.

I've been in this game a while and no one has railed against sending me their PS and CV in favor of some sort of tete-a-tete. You can do whatever you want, I'm just giving you my perspective as someone who writes a lot of letters for a lot of people who get into medical school.
 
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In principle it would, although you're putting more of the onus on me. You want my admin to find time on my schedule, and then what? You want me to take notes of our encounter that I can review when writing your letter?

Most weeks I don't have 30 mins of time to give for such a purpose. I'm not a college lecturer with office hours. Send me something to review and I'll get it done after the kids are in bed.

I've been in this game a while and no one has railed against sending me their PS and CV in favor of some sort of tete-a-tete. You can do whatever you want, I'm just giving you my perspective as someone who writes a lot of letters for a lot of people who get into medical school.

No i understand how the PS/CV can provide a necessary context, and i liked your earlier suggestion for applicants to draft their own letters and let the LOR writers edit. They both significantly simplify the LOR writers' workload, which is crucial because LOR writers are investing some time aside to do the applicants a favor.

I was just thinking that a small meeting with follow up emails can also provide a good refresher, because i was viewing it like a friendly chat. I guess i was rather wary in freely letting the use of PS/CV mainly because i really dont want to have the same material recycled in the letters when the adcoms easily can see them
 
I was just thinking that a small meeting with follow up emails can also provide a good refresher, because i was viewing it like a friendly chat. I guess i was rather wary in freely letting the use of PS/CV mainly because i really dont want to have the same material recycled in the letters when the adcoms easily can see them

Understandable. But at a certain point you have to pick letter writers who you know are going to advocate for you effectively. Drafting their letter is one way to help ensure that, but it isn't rocket science and most people who've been around the block a few times can be trusted to not write their letter using crayons.

You shouldn't feel like you're burdening us, because we signed on to do this sort of stuff and many of us enjoy it. But making efforts to smooth out the process engenders a lot of good will along the way.
 
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No i understand how the PS/CV can provide a necessary context, and i liked your earlier suggestion for applicants to draft their own letters and let the LOR writers edit.

There are all sorts of reasons why it's wrong for LOR writers to have you write a letter so they can revise it and call it their own.
 
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