Uh...help

[posible doc]

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I am a 30 yr old(31 in dec) mom of two and I will start undergrad this sept, with 24 credits in liberal arts I have some ways to go. I am one of those people who just can't decide on a major, at this age I thougt I would know, but I don't. My current job bores me, my current finances stress me, and I feel a 10yr delay having not obtained a career yet.

I've been tossing around the idea of becoming a doc. I came to this forum weeks ago and have not been able to leave. I am here 2 and 3 in the morning reading and reading, becoming inspired and at the same time disenchanted. So many debates on paths, pay and specialties.

I love kids I feel comfortable with them and I think peds would be a joy, but you guys say I can't make money. I must be honest I neeed to make $$$. When I go to salary.com and lookat the money some doc make my eyes pop out my head in truth. I am a SINGLE MOM and very independent might I add and if I'm going to devote my life to this cause I better make major figures at the end of my studies.

My son has erb's palsy (hate the resdent that did this to us) and that got me thinking about medicine, I tore my MCL in Dec, that being said the physical therapy dept is like my second home. So I was like medicine...PT, ok i'll enroll in a DPT program but you all say that DPTs are not a real docs and they're lower on the food chain than a PA and they make less. I immediately began to re-think the PT think and went back to peds. (I know I can do peds) Then you all said that peds specialties like anes or neo or peri is where one could make even more money than regular peds. So I decided to narrow them down peri since that is pre -labor no way can't happen my son was injured by one of these supposed high risk residents, Xs that out. Anes interesting! Do I have the nerves to put people to sleep and deal with the sheer terror of someone bottoming out. As a mom your worst fears come true sometimes and you think you'll freak but you amzingly focus and do what needs to be done. Ok so not sure about that one, maybe.... Then there is neo which seems like theraputic work, saving struggling babies and giving families hope. With today's technology premies almost always survive and recover, so I have heard.

Now I have peds and neonatology, thought about rads but not sure if I would be found oneday in the office hanging from the ceiling (i kid really, i do) outta boredom. So rads goes tothe bottom of the list.

So I ask, Lifestyle Money and Sanity, which are the my best bets? Is persuing a career in medicine this late in a game mistake?

Oh yeah, one last thing, sports medicine....love sports love sports love sports, is that an option; are women taken seriously in this field? What's the path, lifestyle salary etc etc?

 

[Wickedgood]

#1 - you are stressing too much about specialties atm. You need to decide whether you want to be a MD first, and why.

#2 - money probably shouldn't be the strongest factor in the decision to become an MD, expecially since it takes many years of studies before you get a decent paycheck. And other, less intense (education-wise) careers are just as, or more lucrative than medicine.

#3 - medical schools have requirements for classes you have to take, but other than that you can major in whatever you feel like.

#4 - I'm 30 years old, and there are many other non-traditional folks here as well. Whether it is "too late in the game" is up to you. Where do you see yourself in 8 years? Do you want to be just starting a career, or more established by then? Once again, your emphasis on money makes it seem like you would like to see some payoff before then...

Anyway, good luck with starting school this fall 🙂

 

[posible doc]

I hear what you are saying. I know I should decide whether med school is where I want to end up in three years by doing this helps me decide. I'd like a focus before I eneter school again. I can narrow down schools that way and choose the best ones for my career path. I looked at other occupations outside ofe medicine and well....working in the corporate sector is tiring. Currently I am an exec assist and I don't see myself with a corporate company in the long run. Reason why I truned down my dad's offer of assisting with law school. (his dream not mine) In medicine I can help I want money I won't lie but I wantto feel like I have accomplished something I have rewarding work and I have made a difference. The way I see it if this country was suddenly invaded and our way life changed us in the corporate arena will be non valuable. As a doc I can aid save and protect my family from things. Morally speaking I can't think of anything else that makes sense other then medicine.

Hey I want money want to save world, I complicated.....

 

[2Xtrouble2X]

maybe you should look into nursing...im hearing that profession is going to be just/almost as lucrative as becoming a doc...less time, more career!

 

[Flopotomist]

Fellow non-trad here (will matriculate at 32) so we DO exist.

I think you are starting to consider specialties WAY WAY WAY too early. You still need to figure out if MD is the right route.

I would strongly suggest shadowing a few other health professions and see if they hold any interest. At our age, with the lifetime earnings we will get as an MD, the overall payout is not that much different if we choose some of these other things, so money should not be a motivator.

Have you considered NP, PA, CRNA? Any of these professions can make well over 100K per year, plus you get to be finished with school earlier with less debt AND still work in healthcare. Just a thought.

 

[Law2Doc]

I hear what you are saying. I know I should decide whether med school is where I want to end up in three years by doing this helps me decide. I'd like a focus before I eneter school again. I can narrow down schools that way and choose the best ones for my career path. I looked at other occupations outside ofe medicine and well....working in the corporate sector is tiring. Currently I am an exec assist and I don't see myself with a corporate company in the long run. Reason why I truned down my dad's offer of assisting with law school. (his dream not mine) In medicine I can help I want money I won't lie but I wantto feel like I have accomplished something I have rewarding work and I have made a difference. The way I see it if this country was suddenly invaded and our way life changed us in the corporate arena will be non valuable. As a doc I can aid save and protect my family from things. Morally speaking I can't think of anything else that makes sense other then medicine.

Hey I want money want to save world, I complicated.....

Agree with Wickedgood. Age is not the issue. There are many careers and from your starting point, you have quite a long way to go before you are in a positive cash flow situation, so it cannot be your biggest priority. First, decide if you want to do the job function of a physician. If you think working in the corporate sector is tiring, imagine the 80 hour work weeks during residency. Obviously it is a direction to go only if it will be something you are excited about doing day in and day out. If salary is such a focus at this early juncture, to the point that you are dismissing pediatrics because it is not a lucrative enough specialty notwithstanding your interests, you might be looking at this endeavor all wrong. Also bear in mind that additional changes in medicine (universal health care or other insurance dictated procedures) are likely to change the business of medicine pretty significantly in the 10+ years it's going to take you to get through a residency, so nothing on salary.com is other than a weak guess as to what incomes will be like then. I personally suspect not as lucrative. think this thru. Good luck.

 

[LizzyM]

Take stock:
You are 30 years old with less than one year of college credits completed.
You have 2 children who are dependent on you.
Money is an issue

Pre-med is going to take at least 3 years, more likely 4 years. College is most likely going to cost money, and your kids will be 4 years older when you finish.

The med school application process, including MCAT takes the better part of the year and usually costs a pretty penny. If you don't succeed, you bag it (good luck getting a job at 34 with a "pre-med" type major and no full-time work experience in the past 3-4 years).

Medical school is going to take at least 3 years, more likely 4 years. It is most likely going to cost big money (which you will borrow), and your kids will be 4 years older when you finish.

Residency training is going to take at least 3 years, more likely 4 years. You will make a paltry salary (equivalent to what a kid coming out of college makes) for an 80 hour work week and your kids will be 4 years older when you finish.

Now, some 10 years from now, you will start making a "physician's salary". And whatever that is, it may not be equivalent to what docs are making these days. (also, consider that when you see "average" salary that is oftened averaged across the life span so it is more like the salary of someone with 10 years experience than a starting salary). Managed care and other economic forces are keeping pressure on reimbursement for services to the point where some docs are taking salary cuts. Factor in the expense of paying off your student loan debt and that big income will have shrunken a bit.

A degree in one of the allied health professions (such as nursing) will get you earning a nurses salary 4 years from now (maybe 3 if your credits can be transferred). There is an insatiable demand for nurses, the money is very good, the hours can be arranged and are reasonable (no 80 hour weeks) and you will see far more of your kids than you would if you spent the next 8 years in school and 3 more years in your residency. Given the debt acquired by most med students and the number of years before you would be making money to pay back that debt, and the opportunity cost of spending 7 years in education after college, ... do the math but don't be blinded by the lure of what appears to be a lucrative profession - it may be an illusion.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

You could just sue the "resident that did this" to you and live off that if you're so interested in money. Jeez. Injuring the brachial plexus must have meant a really really difficult and dangerous delivery in the first place- to have had to yank out your child with force. I hope you can re-examine your attitude towards medicine with some objectivity because you sound kind of bitter about that. I'm sorry it happened to your child, but unless you've demonstrated malpractice through the courts (i.e. upholding the "reasonable" standard of care), you can't assume that most other doctors would have done better. Some things are out of people's control. Of course, if you've already won a settlement, mea culpa.

Anyway, some non-trads have chimed in, and it isn't too late. If you really want to do medicine, you don't need to take too much of fluff in your courses, just go for a quick and straightforward bachelor's degree in premedical sciences and be focused about it. You claim you're fairly indecisive, so keeping focused on your premed requirements, taking MCAT, etc., will be quite a task for you. Keep in mind that the 3-4 years you spend doing undergrad will mean a pay cut for you, so be prepared for managing that. (not to mention you're not paid in med school, and some med schools are tremendously expensive)

I think you should shadow a few physicians. Not only will this give you exposure to the medicine, you can put it on your application because most schools want to see that you know what you're getting yourself into.

Many people who are matriculating at medical school this fall (including myself) have basically no idea what they want to be doing specialty-wise, and yes, money is a consideration for most people. I've been told that most people have already decided by second or third year medical school. Also, your residency is going to depend a lot on your board exam scores at the end of second year. A subpar performance on that mammoth exam will effectively shut you out of radiology, for example. Keep an open mind.

Making a ton of money as a physician also takes a considerable amount of business/financial acumen. I'm sure you can make money as a pediatrician, but you'd probably have to find a lucrative practice, rich patients, and/or do a ton of procedures.

Maintain focus, do well in school (this is paramount, treat every exam as if it's the exam of your lifetime), do well on the MCAT, get some good medical extracurriculars, and I'm sure you'll have your MD in 2014. Try not to get distracted if you think medicine is "the" path for you! Good luck!

 

[notdeadyet]

Have you considered NP, PA, CRNA? Any of these professions can make well over 100K per year, plus you get to be finished with school earlier with less debt AND still work in healthcare. Just a thought.

Flopotomist has some good thoughts there. I'm 34 and am applying to med school. I started this process three years ago. As it is, I won't be receiving my MD until I'm 39, finishing residency in my mid-40s, then hope to have my student loans paid off right about the time most folks are counting down the years to retirement.

It can be done and people in your position have done just that. But keep in mind what a huge sacrifice it will be to you and your family. I hear a lot of practical questions in your post but don't hear the passion for BECOMING A DOCTOR. I have this passion and even so there are times when I look at the finances, do the math, look at the road before me and look at what an impact it has had on time I could be spending with my wife and have my doubts.

If you're lie me and simply can't imagine going the rest of your life without being a doctor, go for it. If your drive is anything less, there are careers in healthcare just as important to the community as physicians that require much less training and will lead to a much easier lifestyle. Seriously look into what it is like to become a nurse, nurse practitioner, etc.

If you decide you have to be a doctor, major in anything that interests you (you'll get the best GPA this way) and spend lots of time studying for the MCATs. This is particularly iimportant for non-trads. Don't even think about a specialty yet. In fact, don't even think about med school. Focusing on the challenge of doing well in your undergrad. I wish you all the luck in the world...

 

[posible doc]

I thank you all for your kind and sensitive responses, you've brought up some very strong points and given me some more things to think about, your help is definitely appreciated. Thank you...

LizzyM-
you rock and your points are duely noted you make a lot of sense. 😍


anon-y-mouse-
I really am bitter about my little boy. I am bitter about the way the docs involved tried to cover their tracks, I am bitter that the resident didn't so mcuh as give us an apology, I am bitter that 7yrs later my son is still therapy and had to undergo subscpaularis surgery however that was done by an awesome surgeon yet I digress...
I know she didn't premeditatedly injure my son but a sorry would have prevented her from bieng sued I agonized over that decision. I took into consideration that she was new with dreams just starting out a young woman like I was the time. She avoided me in clinic during our duration at the hospital after delivery she NEVER came to se my boy.
My labor was induced a day after my due date she did a stress test the morning of she assesed my sons weight at 8lbs. She said after 10hrs that I would not dilate no further than 8cm sign we are going to have c-section, chief arrives a sec later and said you are 10 you can push. Yes my son became stuck, shoulder behind the pelvic bone and she the chief didn't take the proper precautions. You know how much my lifeless son was when he arrived into this world? 10lbs 9oz what a HUGE difference from 8 freakin' pounds. I was high risk and a gestational diabetic. The chief never touched me he taught this res procedure onme for that I am bitter for that they ended up in supreme court. I will not live off that money my son will. My son did better than beat the odds pre-op he was 85% recovered post-op will be 100%. So my life has been altered by this res I've become real intersted in patient care I've become the ameteur therapist I have taken extra jobs done overtime to pay for my son's neuro ortho/sports docs and therapist ot/pts. I myself have had my lively hood greatly affected by this res, uh huh...i'm bitter.

Ultimately looking at medicine as a possible profession means a lot of different things to me. Brachial Plexus injuries are some things I've become passionate about as doc maybe I can bring about change.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

I'm sorry to hear your sad tale and ongoing saga. You have reminded me why I will never ever go into Ob/Gyn or come close to a high risk pregnancy. Not to sound offensive or anything, but did it occur to you that the "mistake" could have happened, regardless of whether it was the resident or the chief who performed the delivery? And in today's litigious environment, the moment a doctor apologizes, s/he's basically accepted fault, opening the doors to lawsuit happy Americans. I'm almost sure that's why she was avoiding you. You made it sound as though you were willing to "forgive" her if she came up and apologized to you. Well, that's interesting. More power to you and to your son's ongoing path to rehabilitation, it sounds like he is making tremendous headway.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm sorry to hear your sad tale and ongoing saga. You have reminded me why I will never ever go into Ob/Gyn or come close to a high risk pregnancy. Not to sound offensive or anything, but did it occur to you that the "mistake" could have happened, regardless of whether it was the resident or the chief who performed the delivery? And in today's litigious environment, the moment a doctor apologizes, s/he's basically accepted fault, opening the doors to lawsuit happy Americans. I'm almost sure that's why she was avoiding you. You made it sound as though you were willing to "forgive" her if she came up and apologized to you. Well, that's interesting. More power to you and to your son's ongoing path to rehabilitation, it sounds like he is making tremendous headway.

I'm sorry to hear your tale as well. But to emphasize one of anon-y-mouse's points - whether and how one apologizes for a medical mistake is going to be a matter of hospital policy driven by the in house and insurer's legal team. The resident doesn't get to make that call without potentially serious career repurcussions. We live in a litigious society, and such feared litigation sometimes dictates permitted actions of someone as far down the totem pole as a resident. While current studies suggest that physicians may actually get sued less if they apologized more (this is still being debated), an apology is a "statement against interest" or admission and can be used in court against that doctor and other defendants. Since the resident is not the only party subject to suit, and is one of the lower ranking figures on the decision heirarchy, the resident is not permitted to make such statement without consultation and agreement with the other potential defendants (the chief, hospital and insurance carrier). A resident who goes around admitting cupability without higher approval is a resident who will be out on the street pretty rapidly. When you (OP) are in residency, should you take the med school route, there is a good chance you will be put into the same situation, and may be surprised that your ability to apologize or further interact with a patient may be similarly curtailed and compromised. Only if you are your own boss post residency do you get to make those calls, and even then, your insurance carrier may have big issues with that. You may want to factor that into your decisions. Good luck.

 

[TypeA]

Take stock:
You are 30 years old with less than one year of college credits completed.
You have 2 children who are dependent on you.
Money is an issue

Pre-med is going to take at least 3 years, more likely 4 years. College is most likely going to cost money, and your kids will be 4 years older when you finish.

The med school application process, including MCAT takes the better part of the year and usually costs a pretty penny. If you don't succeed, you bag it (good luck getting a job at 34 with a "pre-med" type major and no full-time work experience in the past 3-4 years).

Medical school is going to take at least 3 years, more likely 4 years. It is most likely going to cost big money (which you will borrow), and your kids will be 4 years older when you finish.

Residency training is going to take at least 3 years, more likely 4 years. You will make a paltry salary (equivalent to what a kid coming out of college makes) for an 80 hour work week and your kids will be 4 years older when you finish.

Now, some 10 years from now, you will start making a "physician's salary". And whatever that is, it may not be equivalent to what docs are making these days. (also, consider that when you see "average" salary that is oftened averaged across the life span so it is more like the salary of someone with 10 years experience than a starting salary). Managed care and other economic forces are keeping pressure on reimbursement for services to the point where some docs are taking salary cuts. Factor in the expense of paying off your student loan debt and that big income will have shrunken a bit.

A degree in one of the allied health professions (such as nursing) will get you earning a nurses salary 4 years from now (maybe 3 if your credits can be transferred). There is an insatiable demand for nurses, the money is very good, the hours can be arranged and are reasonable (no 80 hour weeks) and you will see far more of your kids than you would if you spent the next 8 years in school and 3 more years in your residency. Given the debt acquired by most med students and the number of years before you would be making money to pay back that debt, and the opportunity cost of spending 7 years in education after college, ... do the math but don't be blinded by the lure of what appears to be a lucrative profession - it may be an illusion.

Well said. This needs to be on a sticky somewhere with the title: "Consider This Before Jumping" 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

This needs to be on a sticky somewhere with the title: "Consider This Before Jumping" 🙂

Not a good title -- would sound like an anti-suicide thread... 😱