Uh oh! Can't afford surgery in U.S $30,000 vs $3,000

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premedicine

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Makes me wonder why there aren't medical facilities in the U.S. that would do procedures like this for cheaper to attract these patients. Also makes me curious exactly why the same procedure costs 30k vs. 3k. I'm sure the difference involves many factors, such as the hospital charging less to use the OR, doctors charging less for their time, etc.
 
Even MRIs are 1/10 of the price in other countries, so it really doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
Even MRIs are 1/10 of the price in other countries, so it really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Do you know why MRIs cost so much less? I'm really curious.
 
I have no idea, it is the same machine, the same 15 minutes to half an hour for a specialist to interpret.

Operations make sense because of added cost due to malpractice insurance, because here you don't hear a lot about people suing doctors. OR time may also cost more overseas, but honestly, I have no idea.
 
I have no idea, it is the same machine, the same 15 minutes to half an hour for a specialist to interpret.

Operations make sense because of added cost due to malpractice insurance, because here you don't hear a lot about people suing doctors. OR time may also cost more overseas, but honestly, I have no idea.

It may have to do with this quote:

CNN said:
Fitteron says self-pay patients are "getting really aggressively overcharged," as hospitals are trying to subsidize for money lost on things such as Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements.
 
Too bad we don't hear much about the botched surgeries that happen in those countries. Those patients are essentially screwed, with no way of ever recovering any losses (regardless of whether it was the surgeon's fault or not). At least here in the U.S., you know you're safe, and you know your rights are guaranteed as a patient.

Plus, it looks like dude didn't have any insurance. Assuming they had SOME form of insurance, even if it didn't pay a dime, at least the negotiated insurance rate would be a fraction of that 30K. The story was cherry-picked, and written to dramatize the current political situation - nothing more, nothing less...

at least that's what I think...
 
Too bad we don't hear much about the botched surgeries that happen in those countries. Those patients are essentially screwed, with no way of ever recovering any losses (regardless of whether it was the surgeon's fault or not). At least here in the U.S., you know you're safe, and you know your rights are guaranteed as a patient.

Plus, it looks like dude didn't have any insurance. Assuming they had SOME form of insurance, even if it didn't pay a dime, at least the negotiated insurance rate would be a fraction of that 30K. The story was cherry-picked, and written to dramatize the current political situation - nothing more, nothing less...

at least that's what I think...

Medical Tourism is a HUGE industry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

You can go to a country comparable to the US such as New Zealand and get a hip replacement for 20k that costs 120k in US
 
Too bad we don't hear much about the botched surgeries that happen in those countries. Those patients are essentially screwed, with no way of ever recovering any losses (regardless of whether it was the surgeon's fault or not). At least here in the U.S., you know you're safe, and you know your rights are guaranteed as a patient.

Plus, it looks like dude didn't have any insurance. Assuming they had SOME form of insurance, even if it didn't pay a dime, at least the negotiated insurance rate would be a fraction of that 30K. The story was cherry-picked, and written to dramatize the current political situation - nothing more, nothing less...

at least that's what I think...

:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Too bad we don't hear much about the botched surgeries that happen in those countries. Those patients are essentially screwed, with no way of ever recovering any losses (regardless of whether it was the surgeon's fault or not). At least here in the U.S., you know you're safe, and you know your rights are guaranteed as a patient.

Plus, it looks like dude didn't have any insurance. Assuming they had SOME form of insurance, even if it didn't pay a dime, at least the negotiated insurance rate would be a fraction of that 30K. The story was cherry-picked, and written to dramatize the current political situation - nothing more, nothing less...

at least that's what I think...

If you are comparing doing a procedure in some third world countries vs in US , it might be less safe and you rights might not be guaranteed. However, in this specific case, we are comparing doing the procedure in UK vs in US, both have well developed medical system and legal system, yet the cost difference is still that dramatic.

As for charging uninsured patient and insured patient with different rate, that is just totally unfair.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
As for charging uninsured patient and insured patient with different rate, that is just totally unfair.

Its not exactly unfair, in fact it is very similar to a bond credit rating. When working with an insurance company, the hospital knows it will get its money due, so assigns the insurance company the equivalent of a AAA rating. When working with an uninsured patient, there is increased risk that they may not get its money, so the uninsured patient has a lower credit rating, say C. In order to offset this potential for risk, the hospital charges more.

It may seem contradictory to charge more money to someone who may have less money, but its how financial institutes operate. Many times, patients who can pay upfront in get tremendous cost cuts as they achieve their AAA rating equivalency.
 
Too bad we don't hear much about the botched surgeries that happen in those countries. Those patients are essentially screwed, with no way of ever recovering any losses (regardless of whether it was the surgeon's fault or not). At least here in the U.S., you know you're safe, and you know your rights are guaranteed as a patient.

Plus, it looks like dude didn't have any insurance. Assuming they had SOME form of insurance, even if it didn't pay a dime, at least the negotiated insurance rate would be a fraction of that 30K. The story was cherry-picked, and written to dramatize the current political situation - nothing more, nothing less...

at least that's what I think...

its still a legitimate problem
3k vs 30K
8k vs 144K

the differences border on ridiculous, as we become more globalized this will become more and more of an issue. Even with insurance (assuming ~20% copay) you still end up paying more than double out of pocket for the same procedure (and their quoted prices include airfare). The ability to sue is a pretty weak incentive to stay in the U.S., the price difference is so large that if something went wrong you could pay to get it fixed, and still end up with a significantly lower bill.
 
If you are comparing doing a procedure in some third world countries vs in US , it might be less safe and you rights might not be guaranteed. However, in this specific case, we are comparing doing the procedure in UK vs in US, both have well developed medical system and legal system, yet the cost difference is still that dramatic.

As for charging uninsured patient and insured patient with different rate, that is just totally unfair.

Thats why the people who can afford to go anywhere in the world for the surgeries goto the UK right? O wait they come to the US!
 
Thats why the people who can afford to go anywhere in the world for the surgeries goto the UK right? O wait they come to the US!


And yet many US citizens went out to other countries to do surgeries. Also, what those rich people come to US do are high-end surgeries that they can't do in their own countries or have a higher risk rate. Have you heard often that a UK guy come over to US to do a appendectomy?
 
Medical Tourism is a HUGE industry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

You can go to a country comparable to the US such as New Zealand and get a hip replacement for 20k that costs 120k in US
But no one ever pays $120,000 in the US. If you're a self-pay patient, you either don't get it done, or you go to New Zealand, or you just don't pay the bill.. I know of several people who have had expensive motorcycle crashes without medical insurance, and after racking up six figure medical bills....just walked away without paying them.

The hospital sends a bill for $120,000. Insurance might pay $60,000 and Medicare might pay $40,000. If they didn't bill for $120K, then the insurance company (who pays X% of Y cost, or Z flat cost, whichever is less) wouldn't pay the $60K that the hospital actually needs.
 
Thats why the people who can afford to go anywhere in the world for the surgeries goto the UK right? O wait they come to the US!
really? I haven't seen stories of all the major European footballers coming to the U.S. for surgery every time they get injured, nor have I seen stories about Euro royalty, or billionaires (Richard Branson, Roman Abramovich etc.) leaving their countries for U.S. medical care. I think this line of thinking is dangerous, it'll lull us into a false sense of security while more and more people leave the U.S. for cheaper surgeries.
 
As for charging uninsured patient and insured patient with different rate, that is just totally unfair.
Blame the government (and other people). If you give a cash-paying patient a discount that you don't also give to Medicare, you've just committed Medicare fraud. :thumbup:
 
I have family that were able to come to South Africa [So 5 air tickets] and have an MRI and it was cheaper than doing it in the US. And this is high quality private health care, probably some of the best in the world.
 
But no one ever pays $120,000 in the US. If you're a self-pay patient, you either don't get it done, or you go to New Zealand, or you just don't pay the bill.. I know of several people who have had expensive motorcycle crashes without medical insurance, and after racking up six figure medical bills....just walked away without paying them.

The hospital sends a bill for $120,000. Insurance might pay $60,000 and Medicare might pay $40,000. If they didn't bill for $120K, then the insurance company (who pays X% of Y cost, or Z flat cost, whichever is less) wouldn't pay the $60K that the hospital actually needs.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Ultimately it goes back to our somewhat perverted medical payment system.
 
its still a legitimate problem
3k vs 30K
8k vs 144K

the differences border on ridiculous, as we become more globalized this will become more and more of an issue. Even with insurance (assuming ~20% copay) you still end up paying more than double out of pocket for the same procedure (and their quoted prices include airfare). The ability to sue is a pretty weak incentive to stay in the U.S., the price difference is so large that if something went wrong you could pay to get it fixed, and still end up with a significantly lower bill.
They're different systems. You have to ask yourself what's not being told in the story.

Are those figures out of pocket costs, or surgeon's/hospital fees? Because most of the countries listed in those cost comparisons have a universal healthcare system. So while it might cost you less out of pocket, you're insured by the government anyway. The whole point of insurance is to lessen the personal impact of expensive treatments. It's a bit biased to compare uninsured costs in the US with insured costs in a universal system.

Now the person that the story was written about had surgery in the UK, but he also used to be a UK resident. Did he get a discount because of his prior coverage under the system? Does he still qualify for benefits there? Was he covered under a family member's coverage?
 
really? I haven't seen stories of all the major European footballers coming to the U.S. for surgery every time they get injured, nor have I seen stories about Euro royalty, or billionaires (Richard Branson, Roman Abramovich etc.) leaving their countries for U.S. medical care. I think this line of thinking is dangerous, it'll lull us into a false sense of security while more and more people leave the U.S. for cheaper surgeries.


Agreed, I seem to remember that Beckham recently flew to Finland to have surgery on an injury. He can afford any surgeon in the world and even after living in the US for awhile he chooses a Finnish surgeon. The US doesn't have a monopoly on quality medical care.
 
really? I haven't seen stories of all the major European footballers coming to the U.S. for surgery every time they get injured, nor have I seen stories about Euro royalty, or billionaires (Richard Branson, Roman Abramovich etc.) leaving their countries for U.S. medical care. I think this line of thinking is dangerous, it'll lull us into a false sense of security while more and more people leave the U.S. for cheaper surgeries.
Well, it does happen. It's not as uncommon as you'd think.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700
 
Agreed, I seem to remember that Beckham recently flew to Finland to have surgery on an injury. He can afford any surgeon in the world and even after living in the US for awhile he chooses a Finnish surgeon. The US doesn't have a monopoly on quality medical care.

You are right -- superstars are everywhere.

...But I would like to think that we have the highest concentration of them. :)
 
Do you know why MRIs cost so much less? I'm really curious.

It's because insurance companies (in America) don't dispute what they are charged for minor procedures. On the other hand, they're too eager to scream "pre-existing condition!" for $30k surgeries. They basically allow providers to overcharge for these minor procedures without protest.
 
I'm sure the difference involves many factors, such as the hospital charging less to use the OR, doctors charging less for their time, etc.

That's right it's all the damn dirty docs and hospitals Charging more simple because they can, that's The only reason it costs more.....
 
I have family that were able to come to South Africa [So 5 air tickets] and have an MRI and it was cheaper than doing it in the US. And this is high quality private health care, probably some of the best in the world.

So basically what they're trying to eliminate in the US?
 
MRI_units_vs_health_spending_by_country-842x581.jpg


....
 
Blame the government (and other people). If you give a cash-paying patient a discount that you don't also give to Medicare, you've just committed Medicare fraud. :thumbup:

I think that misses the point. While true, you'd still never offer a cash-paying patient that discount because Medicare doesn't pay well enough. They've got to make up the difference somewhere.
 
Too bad we don't hear much about the botched surgeries that happen in those countries. Those patients are essentially screwed, with no way of ever recovering any losses (regardless of whether it was the surgeon's fault or not). At least here in the U.S., you know you're safe, and you know your rights are guaranteed as a patient.

Plus, it looks like dude didn't have any insurance. Assuming they had SOME form of insurance, even if it didn't pay a dime, at least the negotiated insurance rate would be a fraction of that 30K. The story was cherry-picked, and written to dramatize the current political situation - nothing more, nothing less...

at least that's what I think...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6945667/

"A doctor may have performed the wrong type of gastric bypass surgery on more than 50 patients at a Wilmington hospital, officials said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/22/national/main5179900.shtml

"An airman lost parts of both legs and was in critical condition after routine gallbladder surgery at Travis Air Force Base went terribly wrong, his family said."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/black-market_cosmetic_surgerie.html

"Six women from the Essex County area who wanted fuller bottoms ended up in hospitals after receiving buttocks-enhancement injections containing the same material contractors use to caulk bathtubs, officials said."


o_rly.jpg
 
Lol, just from the graph it almost looks like all health care expenditure is based on MRIs. A little deceptive!
It can be interpreted in a lot of ways. That's why people have to do some critical thinking instead of just reading an article and assuming it's telling the entire story.

Hopefully somebody can look at that graph and do a little thinking to come up with a theory of why things like MRIs cost so much more in the US than elsewhere.
 
Its not exactly unfair, in fact it is very similar to a bond credit rating. When working with an insurance company, the hospital knows it will get its money due, so assigns the insurance company the equivalent of a AAA rating. When working with an uninsured patient, there is increased risk that they may not get its money, so the uninsured patient has a lower credit rating, say C. In order to offset this potential for risk, the hospital charges more.

It may seem contradictory to charge more money to someone who may have less money, but its how financial institutes operate. Many times, patients who can pay upfront in get tremendous cost cuts as they achieve their AAA rating equivalency.


LOL.

Have you ever been inside a US hospital, or talked to someone who works in one?

The insurance companies pay late, and pay whatever they feel like paying, and tell the hospitals to take it or leave it.

the_more_you_know2.jpg
 
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/black-market_cosmetic_surgerie.html

"Six women from the Essex County area who wanted fuller bottoms ended up in hospitals after receiving buttocks-enhancement injections containing the same material contractors use to caulk bathtubs, officials said."

The women checked into hospitals in the county after their procedures, apparently administered by unlicensed providers, went horribly wrong, state health officials said.

Yea, go figure. Medicine administered by unlicensed professionals will likely have complications. :rolleyes:
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6945667/

"A doctor may have performed the wrong type of gastric bypass surgery on more than 50 patients at a Wilmington hospital, officials said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/22/national/main5179900.shtml

"An airman lost parts of both legs and was in critical condition after routine gallbladder surgery at Travis Air Force Base went terribly wrong, his family said."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/black-market_cosmetic_surgerie.html

"Six women from the Essex County area who wanted fuller bottoms ended up in hospitals after receiving buttocks-enhancement injections containing the same material contractors use to caulk bathtubs, officials said."


o_rly.jpg
The NJ case was done by non-licensed practitioner, that means they may not even be physicians. "The women checked into hospitals in the county after their procedures, apparently administered by unlicensed providers, went horribly wrong, state health officials said. " In the soldiers case the aorta was nicked. In the DE case there was no mention of harm caused, he did a different sort of gastric bypass procedure, I'm not certain that there was any harm done. Even assuming the worst about these cases, they represent a very small fraction of America's health care providers and it would be equally easy to cherry pick from the other side.
 
Its not exactly unfair, in fact it is very similar to a bond credit rating. When working with an insurance company, the hospital knows it will get its money due, so assigns the insurance company the equivalent of a AAA rating. When working with an uninsured patient, there is increased risk that they may not get its money, so the uninsured patient has a lower credit rating, say C. In order to offset this potential for risk, the hospital charges more.

It may seem contradictory to charge more money to someone who may have less money, but its how financial institutes operate. Many times, patients who can pay upfront in get tremendous cost cuts as they achieve their AAA rating equivalency.

As Prowler mentioned earlier, the reason bills are so inflated has to do with reimbursement formulas. The payer basically says that for a given service it will pay either X% of the bill or a flat amount, whichever is less. The provider therefore has to overcharge in order to get the flat amount.

If that provider tried to bill uninsured people for what things actually cost, the payer would find out and adjust payment to X% of that amount rather than the inflated rate.

This works out fine if you are insured and your insurance company has a pre-negotiated fee schedule with your provider. But if you walk in off the street, you're hosed.
 
But no one ever pays $120,000 in the US. If you're a self-pay patient, you either don't get it done, or you go to New Zealand, or you just don't pay the bill.. I know of several people who have had expensive motorcycle crashes without medical insurance, and after racking up six figure medical bills....just walked away without paying them.

That "works" if you have acute injuries, but if you have an issue that isn't (yet) life threatening it's not always so simple. I have seen people with tumors who cannot get treated because they do not have a tissue diagnosis, and they cannot get a tissue diagnosis because the tumor hasn't reached a high enough stage to make the patient unstable.

Delightful, eh?
 
Come on now, I think that price is just right. Don't get mad, its just my personal opinion.
According to the video, heart surgery in India cost 8500 US dollars.
Covert this into indian ruppees Rs. 3,76,806. This is a lot of money in India because average family of 4 has an income of around 7 or 8 Grand.

But anyways, that's pretty sad, but good for surgeons in US. If I become a surgeon, I would do one operation FREE every week like my sister. :)
 
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/black-market_cosmetic_surgerie.html

"Six women from the Essex County area who wanted fuller bottoms ended up in hospitals after receiving buttocks-enhancement injections containing the same material contractors use to caulk bathtubs, officials said."
These women got their butts shot up by some dude in a garage. That's not medical treatment.
NEWARK -- Six women from the Essex County area who wanted fuller bottoms ended up in hospitals after receiving buttocks-enhancement injections containing the same material contractors use to caulk bathtubs, officials said.

The women checked into hospitals in the county after their procedures, apparently administered by unlicensed providers, went horribly wrong, state health officials said. The women underwent surgery and were given antibiotics. No arrests have been made.

Different from medical-grade silicone, the substance used in the botched procedures was believed to be a diluted version of nonmedical-grade silicone.

"The same stuff you use to put caulk around the bathtub," said Steven M. Marcus, executive and medical director of the New Jersey Poison Information and Education System, who learned about the bizarre procedures through a committee he sits on that monitors outbreaks in the metropolitan area.
 
That "works" if you have acute injuries, but if you have an issue that isn't (yet) life threatening it's not always so simple. I have seen people with tumors who cannot get treated because they do not have a tissue diagnosis, and they cannot get a tissue diagnosis because the tumor hasn't reached a high enough stage to make the patient unstable.

Delightful, eh?
I was using the conjunction "or" for a reason. In their situation, they just wouldn't get it done. I'm not defending the current system here.
 
LOL.

Have you ever been inside a US hospital, or talked to someone who works in one?

The insurance companies pay late, and pay whatever they feel like paying, and tell the hospitals to take it or leave it.

LOL, internet troll. Make a baseless appeal to authority and throw in a jpg.
 
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