UK and Ireland Med Schools

[nima123]

So I'm thinking about applying to UK/Ireland next year. I already have a BSc in physiology from McGill. I don't know much about the system over there, so I'd appreciate your answers to the follwing questions:

1. How long will the medical program be for someone in my situation?

2. Can I do my residency ad practice in the UK as a Canadian citizen, and if not, is it easy to do the residency in Canada/US as a UK/Ireland graduate?

3. Any notable differences between the UK and the Irish systems?

4. Will I have to take the UKCAT or will the MCATs suffice?

5. How hard is it to get into med in UK/Ireland as an international compared to US/Canada?

6. Someone told me a friend of theirs was a doctor in the UK, yet prefered to work in Citibank rather than practice med. Are they that desperate?

Thank you.

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[Scottish Chap]

So I'm thinking about applying to UK/Ireland next year. I already have a BSc in physiology from McGill. I don't know much about the system over there, so I'd appreciate your answers to the follwing questions:

1. How long will the medical program be for someone in my situation?

2. Can I do my residency ad practice in the UK as a Canadian citizen, and if not, is it easy to do the residency in Canada/US as a UK/Ireland graduate?

3. Any notable differences between the UK and the Irish systems?

4. Will I have to take the UKCAT or will the MCATs suffice?

5. How hard is it to get into med in UK/Ireland as an international compared to US/Canada?

6. Someone told me a friend of theirs was a doctor in the UK, yet prefered to work in Citibank rather than practice med. Are they that desperate?

Thank you.

1. Generally five years. One or two four-year, graduate courses will consider internationals in the U.K.

2. Staying in the U.K.: as of last year, no. If you do well on the USMLE, you can most definitely secure a U.S. residency. For Canada, it's harder.

3. In terms of education, no. The training period and age of entry is the same.

4. You will definitely have to take the UKCAT if it's asked for (most schools ask for it now). One or two Irish schools that operate through the Atlantic Bridge program might look at the MCAT if they don't use the UKCAT.

5. Generally a little easier (note: not easy) because you are paying so much money. It's definitely easier for an international compared to a British/Irish student. There are only a few North Americans with very competitive GPA and MCAT scores that choose the U.K./Ireland over the U.S. or Canada - in part because it's harder to secure a competitive residency in North America, and there are more hurdles to cross.

6. Can't answer that.

Good luck!

 

[Blitz2006]

So I'm thinking about applying to UK/Ireland next year. I already have a BSc in physiology from McGill. I don't know much about the system over there, so I'd appreciate your answers to the follwing questions:

1. How long will the medical program be for someone in my situation?

2. Can I do my residency ad practice in the UK as a Canadian citizen, and if not, is it easy to do the residency in Canada/US as a UK/Ireland graduate?

3. Any notable differences between the UK and the Irish systems?

4. Will I have to take the UKCAT or will the MCATs suffice?

5. How hard is it to get into med in UK/Ireland as an international compared to US/Canada?

6. Someone told me a friend of theirs was a doctor in the UK, yet prefered to work in Citibank rather than practice med. Are they that desperate?

Thank you.

Well I'm a Canadian student, who was just accepted to Univ. of Birmingham, England, few months ago.

Scottish Chap is pretty much bang on for the answers.

However, I know that for many British schools, it is just as competitive as U.S/Canadian schools, even for international students. It depends where you apply. The top 4 schools (from what I've read) are Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh and Imperial, and apparently they all want high 80 averages. For Birmingham, they told me on the phone that they want 83-85% overall average in your degree, to be competitive.

I also read on british med forums (newmediamedicine.com) that there were 460 international applicants for 35 spots (For univ. of birmingham).

Just to give ya an idea.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I also read on british med forums (newmediamedicine.com) that there were 460 international applicants for 35 spots (For univ. of birmingham). Just to give ya an idea.

Actually, those are not bad odds at all. My own institution in the U.S. has a 4% acceptance rate, and we don't receive nearly as many applications as many other U.S. medical schools.

Keep in mind that many of those "internationals" applying to British medical schools include applicants outside of North America; many are from the EU and the significantly lower tuition that EU members pay make British medical schools attractive. Pound-for-pound a North American applicant who will drop 15-30 grand (U.K. money; 10-fold higher than what local/EU students pay) per year on a place will most definitely get some attention.

 

[nima123]

Pound-for-pound a North American applicant who will drop 15-30 grand (U.K. money; 10-fold higher than what local/EU students pay) per year on a place will most definitely get some attention.

15-30 grand, UK money? This is probably the most horrifying fact I've come to know about med schools. I think I'll still apply, but this tuition fee added to the cost of living in the UK makes UK schools quite unattractive. I would pay around 2K pounds if I secured a spot in my home province in Canada.

 

[Scottish Chap]

15-30 grand, UK money? This is probably the most horrifying fact I've come to know about med schools. I think I'll still apply, but this tuition fee added to the cost of living in the UK makes UK schools quite unattractive. I would pay around 2K pounds if I secured a spot in my home province in Canada.

Try to stay in Canada if you can.

 

[leorl]

That is why there aren't too many North Americans going to the UK . You expect to pay a high amount for medical school, but with the conversion rate, the costs are astronomical. Even moreso for the Canadians. And then you factor in costs of living (high!), flights, possibly having to take UK entrance exams... it's too much of an ouch. Unless you have a parent earning some sterling. Or are just wealthy. Ireland is becoming the same way since the dollar is doing so poorly against the euro.

 

[Blitz2006]

Going to the UK is cheaper than many private U.S medical schools.

I myself turned down a Wayne State Interview because of this, as I figured I had a chance to study at a top 10 UK school for less money than a '3rd rate' U.S school.

Wayne sent me a letter saying that for the intl applicant, the average cost with living expenses is 75K/year in US Dollars (So around 80-85K in CDN).

So 80-85K x 4 years = 320K for MD.

Birmingham Tuition = 12K Pounds for 1st 2 years (25K CDN/year)
20K Pounds for 2nd 3 years (42K CDN/year)

So thats around 175K for 5 years of tution.

From the research I've done, living expenses will be around 7K Pounds (15K CDN) per year. So x 5, comes out to 75K.

So you're looking at 175K + 75K = 250K for a 5 year MBBS.

250K CDN for 5 years in Birmingham vs. 320K CDN for 4 years in Detroit.

So yeah, Canada is obviously the cheapest alternative, but UK isn't as pricey as everyone makes it seem. Don't get me wrong, UK is definitly expensive, but I think that reputation is largely based on London, UK. And yes, the strong CDN dollar presently also helps

 

[Scottish Chap]

Going to the UK is cheaper than many private U.S medical schools.

I myself turned down a Wayne State Interview because of this, as I figured I had a chance to study at a top 10 UK school for less money than a '3rd rate' U.S school.

Wayne sent me a letter saying that for the intl applicant, the average cost with living expenses is 75K/year in US Dollars (So around 80-85K in CDN).

So 80-85K x 4 years = 320K for MD.

Birmingham Tuition = 12K Pounds for 1st 2 years (25K CDN/year)
20K Pounds for 2nd 3 years (42K CDN/year)

So thats around 175K for 5 years of tution.

From the research I've done, living expenses will be around 7K Pounds (15K CDN) per year. So x 5, comes out to 75K.

So you're looking at 175K + 75K = 250K for a 5 year MBBS.

250K CDN for 5 years in Birmingham vs. 320K CDN for 4 years in Detroit.

So yeah, Canada is obviously the cheapest alternative, but UK isn't as pricey as everyone makes it seem. Don't get me wrong, UK is definitly expensive, but I think that reputation is largely based on London, UK. And yes, the strong CDN dollar presently also helps

Firstly, congrats on winning interviews to medical school. This is a huge achievement - no matter where it is. I had no idea that Wayne State was so outragously expensive for internationals.

Choosing a British medical school over a U.S. school makes total sense (finacially) for you. As a Canuck, statistically, you're more than likely going to end up doing your residency in the U.S. rather than in Canada or the U.K. The only cautionary note I would throw in there for people in the same situation is that international graduates are considered only after U.S. allopathic and osteopathic medical school graduates and so it makes sense to go to medical school in America - any medical school - if one has the chance and if one intends to apply to a competitive specialty in the U.S. It absolutely makes a difference.

Congrats again, and good luck!

 

[Blitz2006]

Firstly, congrats on winning interviews to medical school. This is a huge achievement - no matter where it is. I had no idea that Wayne State was so outragously expensive for internationals.

Choosing a British medical school over a U.S. school makes total sense (finacially) for you. As a Canuck, statistically, you're more than likely going to end up doing your residency in the U.S. rather than in Canada or the U.K. The only cautionary note I would throw in there for people in the same situation is that international graduates are considered only after U.S. allopathic and osteopathic medical school graduates and so it makes sense to go to medical school in America - any medical school - if one has the chance and if one intends to apply to a competitive specialty in the U.S. It absolutely makes a difference.

Congrats again, and good luck!

Hey Scottish Chap,

Thanks man! It is pretty exciting. A few months ago you gave me some solid advice on USMLEs and residency matching in U.S, so that also helped in my decision process. Thanks again.

And yes, coming back to U.S (which is my top choice) will not be easy, as I know only 50% of IMGs match. But I figure with my British citizenship and a Canadian Life Sciences degree, I will stand a decent chance when applying for match. Of course, 5 years of hard work will also be needed, and solid USMLE scores.

But for what I want to do, General Surgery or Internal Medicine, it doesn't look to be imposisble as long as I put my mind to it. From the research I've done, the specialities that IMGs are pretty much 'shut out' in U.S are:

Ortho, Plastics, Neurosurgery, Opthamology, Radiology and Dermatology.

None of those really interest me, so another factor in my decision.

And yeah, U.S schools do charge big bucks for int'l students. My housemate is going to Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia, and tuition alone for him will be 42K US Dollars (so around 45-50K CDN/year). And I'm sure living costs in Philly will be another 15Kish on top of that. And he chose this after Hawaii, since Hawaii is even more expensive (aroudn 50K US Dollars/year for tuition).

 

[xyuna]

hi..i am a general pratıon from turkey and wanna ımprove my medıcal englısh by speakıng on mıc on msn have tıme

 

[JPR22]

Hey Scottish Chap,


And yes, coming back to U.S (which is my top choice) will not be easy, as I know only 50% of IMGs match. But I figure with my British citizenship and a Canadian Life Sciences degree, I will stand a decent chance when applying for match. Of course, 5 years of hard work will also be needed, and solid USMLE scores.
.

Blitz2006,
why are you paying international fees if you have british citizenship?

 

[Scottish Chap]

Blitz2006,
why are you paying international fees if you have british citizenship?

You need to have lived in the U.K. for at least three years (for non-educational purposes) to qualify for home fees. British citizenship is not enough if you reside overseas.