kev

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kev

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well fair enough....I think that my particular Medical School
of Cambridge University is the absolute best place in the world to read Medicine.

:D

Yes Harvard etc are very good but you should never accept any substitutes for the best.
 
U

UCSBPre-Med

So what did you come her just to start a debate?

Its pretty much a WORLD consensus that US med schools are the best, most innovative in the world.
 
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SunnyS81

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Although I'm guessing US schools are more innovative. It is worth mentioning that most clinical trials are conducted first in Europe (and UK) because of the FDA. Based on that, I would also draw the conclusion that medicine would be a lot more exciting there since you constantly have a barrage of new treatments coming out.

Either way. Who cares?
 
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Originally posted by kev
well fair enough....I think that my particular Medical School
of Cambridge University is the absolute best place in the world to read Medicine.

:D

Yes Harvard etc are very good but you should never accept any substitutes for the best.
could u explain the application process for medical schools in UK?
 

tryingagain

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Viva la America
 

tryingagain

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I don't know about med school but it seems for the past hundred years or so we are always fixing yours and the rest of Europe's screw ups. Probably won't be long until we're fixing your med school programs too.
 

lola

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Originally posted by tryingagain
I don't know about med school but it seems for the past hundred years or so we are always fixing yours and the rest of Europe's screw ups. Probably won't be long until we're fixing your med school programs too.
oh lord, let's not start this america is superior crap.
 

tryingagain

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Well his whole point of the post was to start the "my Cambridge school is at least of the same quality" as the American schools debate. Damn right I am proud to be an American and proud to be an American Medical Student.

Look at the title of his first post "UK vs US"

Now is that just asking for this debate or what???
 

lola

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ok, you're right. i should have said let's not start this whole who is superior crap. has anyone been to med school in the u.s. and the u.k.? i seriously doubt it, so there's not much of a point in having the discussion.
 
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Maybe we should ask Dr. Elizabeth Corday at Chicago's County General hospital which is better? She left England not once, but twice and went back to the US.

Okay, okay. Its ER but its still a good comparison. ;)

LOL :laugh:
 

leorl

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I have just read some of the most ignorant statements from both sides.

1) You cannot really compare the UK and the US systems because they are completely different. US training is a graduate program, while the UK one is a 6-year undergrad program. There's merits and cons to both.

2) The information learned is pretty much the same everywhere you go, no matter if you go to east bufu school of medicine in Sri Lanka or to Cambridge / Harvard. The information currently known is universal, one country doesn't know more than another, etc. Different places focus on different aspects of medicine, perhaps (the aussies like a more psychosocial view of medicine, for instance), but general education is the same. Cambridge graduates are equal to any med graduate in the US, but so are graduates of Australia, Ireland, Israel, India, France etc etc etc. Medicine is one of the most prestigous courses of study worldwide, so you'll find extremely intelligent people coming from every single school possible.

3) The differentiation happens AFTER MED SCHOOL. THe place where regional excellence (or lack thereof) is evident in residency training, when you actually get into the work field. The US right now happens to have the most advanced technology and money to support medical technology/progress, so those who complete residency training in the US might find themselves more experienced or "competent" docs than those from say...yugoslavia. This occurs just because of a difference in exposure. However, to get INTO a US residency, everyone has to take the USMLE Step 1, Step 2. And currently, FMGS have to take the CSA and the TOEFL (although they're talking about making USMGs take the CSA).

Because they have to, FMGs usually way outscore USMGs on average, on the USMLE 1 and 2's. THIS shows that THERE ARE NO obviously SUPERIOR MED SCHOOLS universally, and that those who do well enough on the USMLEs to get into residency obviously came from schools who train their students well enough to be considered EQUAL to US schools. US Schools are in no way "better" than anywhere else, and other schools are not better than US schools. IT IS NOT WORLD CONSENSUS that US med schools are the best. That's just plain ignorant. It is well-known that US opportunities and technology may be the best, but that has nothing to do with medical schools themselves, just possibly indicative of residency training. The French think their schools and healthcare is the best. So do the UK schools. So do the Dutch schools. So do the Japanese schools. It goes on and on. Each school thinks it's the best, when they all offer pretty much the same courses.

There's a difference between being really proud to be American and being arrogant about it. I love that I'm American. I'm also completing med studies in Ireland because I found that their system of education is more suited to me than the American system (I actually could not envisage myself being very happy if I stayed in the US for med school). And I hope to do an elective at Cambridge.

The motto of all this is: don't say stupid s***.
 
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MacGyver

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Leorl,

FMGs do NOT score higher than US grads on average. You are comparing a super subset pool of FMGs to average US grads, how is that a fair comparison?

You're comparing the top 10% of the FMG applicant pool to the whole pool of american grads.
 

Dmcpharmd2be

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I though France housed the best med. schools? If not, then that's my error. To be perfectly honest, I'm not certain as of why we are even having this discussion. Every school has it's own clandestine areas of stupidity from it's student population to it's professors. It's all about a schools rep, no point in changing our ideology now. So who cares, work hard to get into the school in which you want. And then kick a**, argument over, get a life.

Darrin


I can't believe you POTENIAL DOCS are casting an international Med. school pissing contest over S.D.N. Grow up, hit the books...When it comes to life and death I would hope that my doctor did more with their time in med. school, other then bickering on a subject like this....I would hope that person did just a little studying.
 

leorl

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Originally posted by Dmcpharmd2be
Grow up, hit the books...When it comes to life and death I would hope that my doctor did more with their time in med. school other then bickering on a subject like this....I would hope that person did just a little studying.
That's exactly right. MacGuyver, my previous statement concerning the USMLE scores was not regarding all FMGs who take the USMLE, but those FMGs who're successful in getting into US residency (either pre-match or matching). Yes, they might have to be in a higher percentage because of US "rules," but the point is that graduates from all over the world are capable and have the same knowledge as US students. Also, the major reason other FMGs who score poorly do so is because of the language barrier, not because of inferior education.

If you'd like to see a pragmatic way this thread should have been responded to, please see the thread of the same title in the Everyone forum.
 

dtreese

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Originally posted by leorl

If you'd like to see a pragmatic way this thread should have been responded to, please see the thread of the same title in the Everyone forum.
Then again, leorl, kev's second post on this thread was really baiting people. It's my impression the gentleman from across the ocean was trying to see if he could launch a stream across the ocean. Mega-praise, though, for your discussion of the topic. :clap:

Kev, the first statement in your second post is fine -- it's great to have pride in your school. The second statement, however, is rather snotty, and was really uncalled for. Comparing the two systems seems to be a case of comparing Apples and cargo pants, so pants to the notion that one is better than the other.
 

An Yong

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Originally posted by MacGyver
Leorl,

FMGs do NOT score higher than US grads on average. You are comparing a super subset pool of FMGs to average US grads, how is that a fair comparison?

You're comparing the top 10% of the FMG applicant pool to the whole pool of american grads.

Good Point.
 

Kovox

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There is no BEST medical school.
And if you were to compare medical schools, why the heck compare them according to who scores higher on test written exams....why not compare them with the quality physicians that they put out....mostly, are these physicians empathetic? Going to underserved areas to practice?

A school can have the highest USMLE pass rate but the lowest number of quality physicians...a medical school is a medical school, all with the same goal: produce doctors that serve the people

It's silly to even debate or fight amoung ourselves over who is better...after all, we are all or will be colleagues.
 

Random Access

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Originally posted by Kovox
a medical school is a medical school, all with the same goal: produce doctors that serve the people.

Which brings on the oh-so-quoted question... What do you call the person who graduated at the absolutely bottom of his/her med school class?
 

tabbycat

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Hi!
I'm a London girl and will be applying to UK med schools next year.

I don't think it's fair or reasonable to start comparing med schools from around the world. Whilst there may be some differences in admissions procedures, the nature of medicine means it is carefully regulated so all schools must educate their students to a specific level to enable them to practice with competence. It's not like English or Arts courses where the Unis can teach you whatever they feel like teaching you!

I have been reading some of the threads posted with interest. Our medical admissions process over here is quite different, not least for the fact that the most cash we have to shell out during the applications process is ?15 (about $22)! We have a central applications centre called UCAS (Universities and Colleges Admissions Service). We only fill in one application form, send it to UCAS with the ?15 fee, and they do all the rest! They photocopy the form for you, send it to all the places you listed and co-ordinate all the responses for you. Easy-peasy!

The downside - Uk students can only apply to a maximum of four medical schools (out of 25 in the UK). The Association of Medical and Dental School Deans have kindly decided for us that if you are unable to get an offer from four applications, you are not going to get an offer at all so you should not bother applying to any more!!!

We also don't have the secondary application here. You submit your one and only application form, from that you either get rejected or called for interview, then accepted or rejected or put on the waiting list.

I'm entering through the new fast-track (4 years) Graduate program. I have already spent four years at University obtaining a Bachelors in Microbiology and Virology, and a Masters in Applied Molecular Microbiology. I can't believe I am willingly applying to study for another four years! I must be mad, but I love medicine!
 

Sweet Tea

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tabbycat, that was a great first post. welcome to sdn!! :clap: :clap:

i have to say that i'm more than a little jealous of the $22 application fee. i think i've paid more than $22 in postage fees so far...:laugh:

thanks for the informative post!!
 

dtreese

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Welcome, tabbycat! 15 pounds. I wish. I'm getting people to give me application money as early Christmas presents.

Why are so many med school applicants from well-to-do families? Cause the damn process is so expensive.
 

tabbycat

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Thanks for the welcome!

All the med students over here tend to come from wealthy families too because the UK medicine courses last 5 years, 6 with a pre-med year, so they need loads of money to survive for that length of time with no money coming in!

I've actually just returned from a trip to the States, visiting a University friend living in San Francisco - what a great city! My friend lives near to the UCSF medical center so I saw all the medics wandering around - made me realise how excited (and nervous) I am about applying next year!

I think it will be tough because the new fast-track programs here are really competitive, mainly because you get all your tuition fees paid by the government! The last info I read was that there were 18 applicants for every place.....
 
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