Ultra-competitive unopposed family practice programs

[sungkwon]

Hi I looked throught the forum and I found Ventura county to be one of such programs. Anyone know of others with high quality hands-on training like ventura? What about places that train you to do some surgeries like appys/choly and get good exposure to trauma as well? Thanks much

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[Donkey Hote]

Hi I looked throught the forum and I found Ventura county to be one of such programs. Anyone know of others with high quality hands-on training like ventura? What about places that train you to do some surgeries like appys/choly and get good exposure to trauma as well? Thanks much

Yep, got a few ideas. That description pretty much sums up my whole interview list. Here goes...

Ventura FPR
Martinez/aka CCRMC(often spoken in the same breath with Ventura in these circles, possibly even more competitive)
Salinas/Natividad
Sutter Santa Rosa
UCSD Chula Vista

Im sure there's more, but thats where I applied. Didn't want to stray too far from the sunshine

 

[deleted6669]

add tacoma family medicine, u.wa rural track (colville/goldendale), u. mt, ohsu/klamath falls, providence miluakie (or)

 

[secretwave101]

Hi I looked throught the forum and I found Ventura county to be one of such programs. Anyone know of others with high quality hands-on training like ventura? What about places that train you to do some surgeries like appys/choly and get good exposure to trauma as well? Thanks much

A very equivalent program is St. Mary-Corwin Hospital in Pueblo, CO. They're much less competitive than Ventura, but offer or allow many of the same emphases. I've rotated at both places and would put Pueblo on the same footing with many of the programs you listed. The applicant pool is smaller for Pueblo because it isn't the prettiest town in the world (read: good chance you'll get in). But it's 40 minutes from great skiing at Monarch Ski Resort (you can do an elective month on the mountain w/ the ski patrol) and lots of other incredible Rocky Mountain activities. I grew up near there and I've always thought it was beautiful.

Most importantly - and where they trump Ventura - is that they are a referral center for a HUGE region of S. Colorado and N. New Mexico. Thus, they get pathology from all over the place and have to function independently in many ways. If they have to ship someone out, it's all the way to Denver, so they try to deal with whatever comes in by chopper, ambulance, plane etc whenever they can. If you want to work in rural or international settings, Pueblo is a great place to consider because it replicates this environment to some extent, while still functioning as an excellent American hospital.

Obviously, I'm a fan. I'm interviewing there later this month. It'll be somewhere near the top of my rank list.

 

[neilc]

i gotta say that i think the idea of "competitive" is a bit different for these FP programs....the programs i know of (specifically the CA programs) are incredible programs, and certainly have lots of applicants. but, i would think that you need to qualify the word "competitve", because it just makes me think it is off limits to anybody without a degree from an impressive school, research and board scores in the high 90's.

i wound up with an ob/gyn spot, but i applied to a few of these programs as well. and, i am nowhere near a competive applicant. an IMG with crappy step 1 scores, to be precise. and, i recieved interview offers and strong words about matching there from a couple of the programs that i had always assumed were way out of my short reach.

so, i guess my point is that these FP programs, in addition to the tremendous quality of the programs themselves, also seem to do a very good job of picking outstanding residents, even if those resident's are not always what you would think of as competitive in a specialty such as derm. they do a great job of looking at the whole application, they do a great job of finding who is a good fit, they value experience outside of medicine, etc...

so, while i agree that these programs can certainly labled as competitive (because they are!!) i think it would be a shame to scare off some very qualified applicants who may not think of themselves as "competitive", or who don't fit in that traditional mold of great school, AOA, 99 boards, etc...

 

[PennChick]

Pardon my ignorance as I am new to the forum, but is there anyone on this forum (besides me) that is looking in the Midwest or on the east coast?? Did I forget to read the disclaimer that only people from Cali can post on SDN??

I guess that just I can't believe that the non-West Coast FP programs are inferior. Can anyone shed any light on the subject? Is there a difference or do most of you just live out West?

I am just 3rd year, and I will be going into Family Med but don't want to move across the US to do so, Iin looking at some programs along the east coast (at least browsing their websites) there appears to be no real differences in what some of them offer in terms of procedures, patient exposure, and the like when comparing them to the websites of places like Ventura.

Can anyone help me with this? Thank you!

 

[secretwave101]

1. Great point, Neilc. Very well said and very true.

2. There IS a genuine bias against E. Coast FP programs here on the W. Coast. The thinking is that only the specialties are genuinely respected in the East. It is believed that in the East, FP's are thought to be capable of doing exclusively outpatient medicine - and merely colds and well-childs at that. To some extent, this is probably true, but this is the case in most parts of the country in big urban centers where specialists are plentiful, not just the East. Try getting surgical OB privledges as an FP at UCLA or OHSU.

I spent a good amount of time evaluating the Dartmouth FP programs, and both are excellent in my opinion. The program in Maine will give you any experience you want and is hugely focused on rural medicine. One resident I met there was keen on ER stuff, and had a HUGE number of procedures such that he'd be more than able to run any level 2 or 3 trauma center.

The Concord, NH program has this great program where you can get your MPH from Dartmouth (40 minutes up the road) for free if you do two extra years in the program (for a total of 5 years). You're considered a junior faculty member during those last years. The Concord Hospital is the only hospital in NH besides Dartmouth-Hitchcock, so they get referrals from all over. Being a community Hospital, they also allow their residents - the FP residents being the only ones there - to be totally involved in procedures, surgeries, consults and all that.

Add to that list the UVermont program, which is amazing if you can deal with the sparse population of Vermont. It's certainly beautiful up there. UMass is very strong too, but more regimented because it's so "universitized". Then there's some great programs in N. Carolina, Virgina and New York. Specifically in NY there is URochester...one of the top FP programs in the nation. They fill every year, have a HUGE focus on International Medicine (you'll get normal pay and travel expenses to do an overseas rotation) and allow you to focus on just about anything you want as a resident.

So, the E. Coast thing is, in my opinion, total BS. But the closer you get to UW out here in the PacNorthwest, the more snobbery about primary care you'll see. They think they're the only ones in the world who truly believe in primary care medicine. I may end up at a UW program becuause they ARE very good, I just hope I don't pick up the snob factor while I'm there.

Incidentally, I went through the entire interviewing process last year as a 4th year student before I decided to give my wife and kids a break and took this year off. I'm working in an ER here in Portland, OR and will enter the match this year. So, I've been evaluating lots of FP programs for quite some time. Doesn't mean I know everything, but I have seen quite a few places and read about lots more just because I've had so much time to look into them.

 

[MeowMix]

A very equivalent program is St. Mary-Corwin Hospital in Pueblo, CO.

I did a non-FM clerkship rotation there and, looking from the outside, found that the specialists were generally not supportive of the FM residency program. Multiple attendings told me how 'lazy' the FM residents were, how little they worked, and there was an overall attitude of not much respect for the FM residents or faculty.

On the other hand, the residents I talked to all said they were happy. They are also the only CO program to offer full-on C-section training, at this point.

I don't know where they do their peds training, but the inpt peds @SM-C is minimal. Most of the time they had only a few pts on service (like 2), and the nurses were scared of dealing with anyone really sick. There is no PICU.

 

[secretwave101]

I ranked 'em second - got my first choice in Olympia, WA. I'm happy here, but I still get a little nostalgic when I think of SMC.

 

[iswitched]

...I...found that the specialists were generally not supportive of the FM residency program. Multiple attendings told me how 'lazy' the FM residents were, how little they worked, and there was an overall attitude of not much respect for the FM residents or faculty.

I think that the above reputation is common all over the place (and frankly, sadly, often well-earned).

 

[iatrosB]

...I...found that the specialists were generally not supportive of the FM residency program. Multiple attendings told me how 'lazy' the FM residents were, how little they worked, and there was an overall attitude of not much respect for the FM residents or faculty.

I think that the above reputation is common all over the place (and frankly, sadly, often well-earned).

 

[oregonbigc]

I went to OHSU for medical school, one of the better university FM programs in the country. I wanted a great FM program for residency training away from Oregon. I chose Florida. You should definitely check out Halifax in FL. I had interviews around the country (alaska, Providence in Portland, SW Washington, Ventura, Santa Rosa, Martinez, Trident in SC, and Halifax. Hands down halifax was the winner although Trident was #2

1) Unopposed 764 bed hospital building an entire new ER and hospital tower
2) Unopposed, we are the only residents at the hospital the faculty (FP, Surg, IM, Specialists) are always happy to see us and teach.
3) Salary 44k + the best benefits of any program I reviewed last year, 2000k CME $/per year, book $, PDA, paid step 3, Free parking and meals
4) Innovative curriculum 3week rotations. avg Q8 call as an intern, avg q12 as a 2nd year, and.....wait for it......avg q30 as a 3rd year.
5) Sports med fellowship here, work with 3 colleges and several highschools, work at the Daytona 500 for extra cash.
6) sun and beach are other extra perks

Halifax in Florida, check it out

 

[wa_medic]

Alaska anyone?

 

[Faebinder]

Alaska anyone?

Frozen cold. Uses step II to filter for license as opposed to step III. You wont find as many applicants dying to go there. I wouldn't call it ultra competitive.

 

[Poety2]

Im surprised Ventura is so competitive, aside of their residents being from Yale and Harvard They contacted me for an open position to fill immediately after they got my application - hmmm.

 

[oregonbigc]

I interviewed there, the area is nice, near santa barbara. Some residents may be from great medical schools, but they were not happy there, they were obviously overworked and they expressed it in one on one sessions. Nice faculty, Decent facillities, busy program, unfortunately residents weren't really happy.

 

[oregonbigc]

Alaska anyone?

Interviewed here also. Nice people, nice program, more rural family medicine oriented as you do rotations in remote areas of alaska. One minor drawback is as a single male you may have a hard time finding a significant other as the guy:girl ratio is like 10:1 at best.

 

[Frijolero]

I interviewed there, the area is nice, near santa barbara. Some residents may be from great medical schools, but they were not happy there, they were obviously overworked and they expressed it in one on one sessions. Nice faculty, Decent facillities, busy program, unfortunately residents weren't really happy.

Can anyone corroborate? I was stoked to get an interview here but if this is true and the residents don't have much time to read I'm gonna cut it from the list. So. Cal. isn't an easy drive and cutting it from the list would sure make life easier. Anyone?

 

[scoutfire1]

I'm going to have to ditto this. The folks at Ventura don't really seem to be all that happy. There is a very uppity feel about the place; it is definitely important what score you got and where you went to school and how smart you sound. If you need to go be ultra competitive, probably just go match in a different field. This is family medicine. I highly doubt you will be happy if you matched into just "an ultra good" program. What will you do when you get done with your training? Keep your long term goals in mind.

 

[Frijolero]

I'm going to have to ditto this. The folks at Ventura don't really seem to be all that happy. There is a very uppity feel about the place; it is definitely important what score you got and where you went to school and how smart you sound. If you need to go be ultra competitive, probably just go match in a different field. This is family medicine. I highly doubt you will be happy if you matched into just "an ultra good" program. What will you do when you get done with your training? Keep your long term goals in mind.

Point taken. The fact that I likely won't be spending 11 months a year as a surgeon in sub-Saharan Africa means that a fair amount of Ventura's training would be for naught. That said, I found their residents to be generally happy and liked the mindset of the faculty. The traffic was nasty (for a non-Californian) though. Fortunately I found a perfect fit somewhere else in Cali, and it's not a member of the state's "holy trinity". Good luck to everyone finishing up the trail!

 

[voltron77]

Point taken. The fact that I likely won't be spending 11 months a year as a surgeon in sub-Saharan Africa means that a fair amount of Ventura's training would be for naught. That said, I found their residents to be generally happy and liked the mindset of the faculty. The traffic was nasty (for a non-Californian) though. Fortunately I found a perfect fit somewhere else in Cali, and it's not a member of the state's "holy trinity". Good luck to everyone finishing up the trail!

Firjolero, where did you find the pefect fit in California?

 

[Frijolero]

Firjolero, where did you find the pefect fit in California?

I'll tell ya in March...

...but it's chock full of progressive, socially conscious tree-huggers.

You find any gems on your sojourn?

 

[thedman888]

Point taken. The fact that I likely won't be spending 11 months a year as a surgeon in sub-Saharan Africa means that a fair amount of Ventura's training would be for naught. That said, I found their residents to be generally happy and liked the mindset of the faculty. The traffic was nasty (for a non-Californian) though. Fortunately I found a perfect fit somewhere else in Cali, and it's not a member of the state's "holy trinity". Good luck to everyone finishing up the trail!

yup, i agree, if you want to do surgery that bad might as well be a surgeon, where you get properly trained.
and even if you do want to be a surgeon in the middle of a African tribe it'd still be best if you're a surgeon, instead of someone who only knows appys and choles

 

[sophiejane]

...but it's chock full of progressive, socially conscious tree-huggers.

{sighing wistfully} oh, to be more than one tiny tree-hugging blueberry floating in a huge red republican sea....

 

[samfox]

I just finished up rotations at Sutter Santa Rosa, Salinas, and Ventura.

Out of all of the programs, I clicked with the Ventura residents the most as they were the happiest and most down to earth. Santa Rosa wasn't far behind however.

I'd like to to clear some things up as it was a really great rotation. Ventura was known for being a "cowboy" program with clinic on post-call days, staying until 5 pm post-call, etc. Really killing the residents. Then a few years ago they didn't fill a class, actually three spots went unmatched. They looked at their training, listened to the residents, made significant changes and matched with residents from top medical schools. Everyone is much happier and while they are very busy, they still had time to go out almost every night and were really just great people. The program director is top-notch and very responsive to the residents. The women's health is very strong with a clinic in the department of public health that focuses on family planning and high-volume OB with good teaching. And, they let me catch my first baby, so I'm very happy with them!

I did not enjoy the Salinas program, even though their training is very similar to Ventura as well as the patient population, which leads me to believe it just wasn't a personality match.

Sutter-Santa Rosa is as good as it gets, with training at three hospitals overall - Sutter which is a private hospital that was the county hospital, Kaiser which is also now funding the program, and Memorial hospital which I didn't rotate at but visited and while it is a catholic hospital (I think) doesn't restrict your training in any way. The residents here were also really wonderful, and very happy. Strong women's health as well, with continuity abortion training throughout the residency. Santa Rosa has a large substance abuse community so its a great place to practice mental health and getting in touch with the 12-step programs. Medicine rounds were very good, low volume, high teaching. Strong hippie vibe combined with northern California sensibility. New program director is very invested in alternative medicine and while the hospital keeps talking about closing, Kaiser and Memorial are funding the residency as well so even if sutter pulls out it won't affect the residency.

If anyone has questions about these programs, please email me.

 

[Frijolero]

Glad to hear back from you Sam, I was anxiously awaiting your final run-down. After having visited a few more places, I share a similar view of the Ventura workload. At the end they were maybe 3rd or 4th on the beat-your-ass scale. Thanks for your impressions, it's nice to hear from someone who actually spent more than half a day at any particular place.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Frozen cold. Uses step II to filter for license as opposed to step III. You wont find as many applicants dying to go there. I wouldn't call it ultra competitive.

Does any one know what it means that they use step II to filter?

 

[adamj_ut]

On the other hand, the residents I talked to all said they were happy. They are also the only CO program to offer full-on C-section training, at this point.

Ah, not at all true. I am a resident in Greeley, CO and we train to do c-sections and always have. Starting next year we are establishing a c-section 'track' where 4 out of the 7 core program residents will specifically train to do c-sections and get more numbers than they previously have. Our other track (rural training track) will have its own opportunities. And just to plug my program, I cannot see that any other program I have rotated at or know of (especially in Colorado) could rival us in our obsterical or inpatient medical training. We work hard.

 

[testerman]

I am a resident in Greeley, CO and we train to do c-sections and always have. Starting next year we are establishing a c-section 'track' where 4 out of the 7 core program residents will specifically train to do c-sections and get more numbers than they previously have.

When and how did they work that out??? (At the AAFP National Conference in Kansas City in August the Greeley residents and faculty told us the hospital wouldn't allow residents to perform sections or GI scopes anymore and the program director was leaving over it.) What's the current situation for scopes and also for the program director who appears indeed to have left? Alot of us gung-ho full-spectrum FP applicants already scratched Greeley off our lists due to that whole fallout. But for the future of family medicine, I do hope things stabilize and the program's full-scope training reputation/history can be salvaged/upheld. Peace -T

 

[primadonna22274]

Hey E I looked at the Providence-Milwaukie program. It's pretty new eh? Good things? Also would consider K. Falls (my brother's down there). Gotta get home someday...

add tacoma family medicine, u.wa rural track (colville/goldendale), u. mt, ohsu/klamath falls, providence miluakie (or)

 

[primadonna22274]

One of my girlfriends (MD) at home in Oregon did the Greeley program a few years ago...well, 97-00 I guess. I'm not sure if she did c-sections or not. Of course in Oregon she never did them (but did assist the OBs). Sadly she (and the rest of the practice) gave up OB in I think 2003/04 because it just got too prohobitively expensive. And she did work hard. I still remember her horror stories of residency. Said there was great Indian food in Greeley though (go figure).....

Ah, not at all true. I am a resident in Greeley, CO and we train to do c-sections and always have. Starting next year we are establishing a c-section 'track' where 4 out of the 7 core program residents will specifically train to do c-sections and get more numbers than they previously have. Our other track (rural training track) will have its own opportunities. And just to plug my program, I cannot see that any other program I have rotated at or know of (especially in Colorado) could rival us in our obsterical or inpatient medical training. We work hard.

 

[MeowMix]

my response re: Greeley was written when the program was in transition and would not commit to offering C/S training. That has since changed.

 

[Anabella]

What about Lawrence as an excellent competitive unopposed program on the East? Having interviewed all over this year, east, west, pacific NW, I felt that Lawrence was really top noch. They also have Faculty who have C/S privledges, an OB fellowship, and an integrative medicine fellowship.

 

[Coastie]

Please define "ultra-competitive"...

 

[Dharma]

I had fun reading this during a study break, so I'm bumping it! (Yeah, yeah... I know it's almost 5 years-old but a good bumping is good every once in awhile).

 

[KLycos]

The doximity family medicine residency rankings are pretty spot on from what I am seeing in this thread.

 

[NurWollen]

This actually looks like a thread worth necrobumping.