UMich Deans leaving?

[yomama'sdoctor]

I just heard that 4 or 5 of the University of Michigan Deans are leaving. Apparently they have been hush-hush about it during the interview season for obvious reasons.

Does anyone know why or if this is even true?

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[kevinp2]

I just heard that 4 or 5 of the University of Michigan Deans are leaving. Apparently they have been hush-hush about it during the interview season for obvious reasons.

Does anyone know why or if this is even true?

Are they leaving during the admissions season?

 

[HumbleMD]

I just heard that 4 or 5 of the University of Michigan Deans are leaving. Apparently they have been hush-hush about it during the interview season for obvious reasons.

Does anyone know why or if this is even true?

Wow, any idea on which ones? Any clue on why? It's not Prop. 2 related is it?

 

[DrBowtie]

I believe one of them is going to be the PD at the Path Program at Boston University.

 

[modelslashactor]

I don't think it's prop 2 related since the admissions dean is already an interim, and i think the head dean's departure occurred before it as well. don't know about the other 2, geez i wonder what happened. should this matter to prospectives (such as myself)?

 

[maestro1625]

and I really can't see what resignations would do to accomplish anything in regards to prop two...

 

[yomama'sdoctor]

I don't think it's prop 2 related since the admissions dean is already an interim, and i think the head dean's departure occurred before it as well. don't know about the other 2, geez i wonder what happened. should this matter to prospectives (such as myself)?

I'm wondering the same thing...should this affect prospective students?

 

[BlondeCookie]

What's Prop 2?

 

[Seanses]

Background on proposal 2:
http://www.vote-smart.org/election_ballot_measures_detail.php?ballot_id=M000001350

During my interview at Michigan, I specifically asked this question to two of my interviewers to get a feel for the situation. I interviewed in mid September, long before anyone really knew about proposal 2 and well before anyone could have speculated the outcome at the polls. I will repeat that the deans were going to leave before proposal two was an issue.

Response from faculty interviewer:
"....... That many are leaving? ......... I had not even thought about it............ Honestly, this medical school is so large, being comprised of many different boards and comittees, that even losing four deans will probably not change anything very much. I don't think there will be any major alterations in the program."

Response from student interviewer:
"I don't think the students even realize this type of thing occurs. They (deans) don't teach our classes and are way distanced from us."

My two cents coming from someone born and raised in AA and a UM graduate:

First, proposal 2 has nothing to do with the changes in the medical school faculty, neither causing people to quit out of frustration nor to be laid off to accomodate the proposal. You have to understand that Michigan and Ann Arbor are totally against this proposal and probably have already developed legal ways of dodging its detrimental effects. Everyone at Michigan knows that this proposal passed because the majority Michiganders who live outside Ann Arbor are very conservative and very white. Nobody in the faculty or the city would abandon the University over this.

Second, I am part of UMMS staff. I would not have know that the Deans were leaving (except for the ocassional email) if I were not interested in the medical school and constantly reading about it. The truth is that most people on the student, faculty and staff level don't even follow who is the new dean of this or that. Michigan's agenda and goals have been in place for the past couple decades and it is going to take more than a 4 people leaving on good terms to change anything major. Even if one happens to be the dean of the whole school.

 

[dajimmers]

Hey, I'm a current student (M1) at Michigan Medical School. I can say that I was a bit concerned when I found out some of the deans were leaving- I think I found out a few weeks before school started (late July/early August). I even talked to the admissions people about it a little and with some M3s and M4s. Let me give some of my feedback:

Four of the school's ~15 deans decided to take positions elsewhere in individual decisions made sometime over the past 6-8 months. They made their decisions based on being recruited elsewhere, family concerns, and others. All decided to leave before any Proposal 2 decision was made, and all were deeply valued by the administration and are missed. Almost all have been replaced by interim and/or fully instituted new deans. The deans who left are:

Lichter (former Dean of Medical School)-to become President and CEO of American Society of Clinical Oncology (the worlds largest organization of physicians treating cancer). Dr. Lichter has been replaced temporarily with Interim Dean Wooliscroft.

Zink (former Associate Dean of Student Programs)-to become Chair of Emergency Medicine at Brown. Associate Dean Petty has replaced him.

Hammoud (former Assistant Dean of Student Programs)-to become Associate Dean of Cornell Medical School in Qatar. Dr. Petty is leading a search for a replacement.

Remick (former Dean of Admissions)-to become Chair of Pathology at Boston U School of Medicine. Dean Gay has replaced him.

My understanding is that all of the replacement/interim deans have been involved with education at Michigan for many years, and my first-hand experience with them since they took office is that they are very capable, dedicated administrators. The administration feels that, while the loss is still a loss, the fact that the faculty have moved on to such powerful positions speaks to the leadership present at Michigan.

And finally, from the student's point of view: Little (if anything) has changed, and I doubt anything has been negatively affected. The administrators most associated with medical education (like the Dean of Medical Education ) are still around, and below them we have the component (M1, M2, etc.) directors, and below them we have the course directors, and below them we have individual faculty... Students only really interact with the course directors and teaching faculty, so we don't have any appreciable change in the education we are receiving. The new Deans, as they become situated, will likely develop their own programs and directions for the school that will hopefully (and most likely) be positive, but won't seriously affect our lives as students or our outcome when we graduate.

PM me if you have more questions, please. Oh, and Go Blue at the Rose Bowl!

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

My two cents coming from someone born and raised in AA and a UM graduate:

First, proposal 2 has nothing to do with the changes in the medical school faculty, neither causing people to quit out of frustration nor to be laid off to accomodate the proposal. You have to understand that Michigan and Ann Arbor are totally against this proposal and probably have already developed legal ways of dodging its detrimental effects. Everyone at Michigan knows that this proposal passed because the majority Michiganders who live outside Ann Arbor are very conservative and very white. Nobody in the faculty or the city would abandon the University over this.

Michigan is a blue state. Kerry won by 3 points in 2004. Even the GOP in Michigan came out against Prop 2.

Hardly "very conservative", my friend. Of course, even Ted Kennedy liberals like Prof. Dershowitz must look "very conservative" when you're in that ivory tower.

 

[Seanses]

Michigan is a blue state. Kerry won by 3 points in 2004. Even the GOP in Michigan came out against Prop 2.

Hardly "very conservative", my friend. Of course, even Ted Kennedy liberals like Prof. Dershowitz must look "very conservative" when you're in that ivory tower.

Sorry to use a loaded word like conservative. You are right in that sense. Let me refrase, "Many Michiganders do not agree with the 'mission' of the University of Michigan and do not support it on some major issues."

 

[Hednej]

Hey, I'm a current student (M1) at Michigan Medical School. I can say that I was a bit concerned when I found out some of the deans were leaving- I think I found out a few weeks before school started (late July/early August). I even talked to the admissions people about it a little and with some M3s and M4s. Let me give some of my feedback:

Four of the school's ~15 deans decided to take positions elsewhere in individual decisions made sometime over the past 6-8 months. They made their decisions based on being recruited elsewhere, family concerns, and others. All decided to leave before any Proposal 2 decision was made, and all were deeply valued by the administration and are missed. Almost all have been replaced by interim and/or fully instituted new deans. The deans who left are:

Lichter (former Dean of Medical School)-to become President and CEO of American Society of Clinical Oncology (the worlds largest organization of physicians treating cancer). Dr. Lichter has been replaced temporarily with Interim Dean Wooliscroft.

Zink (former Associate Dean of Student Programs)-to become Chair of Emergency Medicine at Brown. Associate Dean Petty has replaced him.

Hammoud (former Assistant Dean of Student Programs)-to become Associate Dean of Cornell Medical School in Qatar. Dr. Petty is leading a search for a replacement.

Remick (former Dean of Admissions)-to become Chair of Pathology at Boston U School of Medicine. Dean Gay has replaced him.

My understanding is that all of the replacement/interim deans have been involved with education at Michigan for many years, and my first-hand experience with them since they took office is that they are very capable, dedicated administrators. The administration feels that, while the loss is still a loss, the fact that the faculty have moved on to such powerful positions speaks to the leadership present at Michigan.

And finally, from the student's point of view: Little (if anything) has changed, and I doubt anything has been negatively affected. The administrators most associated with medical education (like the Dean of Medical Education ) are still around, and below them we have the component (M1, M2, etc.) directors, and below them we have the course directors, and below them we have individual faculty... Students only really interact with the course directors and teaching faculty, so we don't have any appreciable change in the education we are receiving. The new Deans, as they become situated, will likely develop their own programs and directions for the school that will hopefully (and most likely) be positive, but won't seriously affect our lives as students or our outcome when we graduate.

PM me if you have more questions, please. Oh, and Go Blue at the Rose Bowl!

Ah thanks so much. When I read the title I almost panicked. I guess I can relax now

 

[myleghurts]

Michigan is a blue state. Kerry won by 3 points in 2004. Even the GOP in Michigan came out against Prop 2.

Hardly "very conservative", my friend. Of course, even Ted Kennedy liberals like Prof. Dershowitz must look "very conservative" when you're in that ivory tower.

It depends where you live. If you live on the west side that is rich and white it is conservative. The east side has more poor and black people so it is more liberal.

 

[vooweevoo]

It depends where you live. If you live on the west side that is rich and white it is conservative. The east side has more poor and black people so it is more liberal.

I never until now considered Michigan to be substantially segregrated from one side the next, other than comparing the UP to the lower half of course, but now that I think about it the east/west comparison at least in southern region is probably spot on =/

 

[maestro1625]

pretty much... though it's not totally balanced. I live in Genesee county and republicans dont even bother running in most of the races around me, though go one county over to the east, and the place is about as conservative as you can get.

However, the west side has that whole psycho-Xtian element that spawned our latest GOP candidate for governor.

 

[dajimmers]

I never until now considered Michigan to be substantially segregrated from one side the next, other than comparing the UP to the lower half of course, but now that I think about it the east/west comparison at least in southern region is probably spot on =/

I'm from the UP, so I really don't know much about the politics down here (despite going to school down here for 4.5 years now). But I think the East/West divide is pretty accurate, at least by population if not by geographical space. Oh, and to the poster who commented on how the rest of the state isn't always on-board with UM's agenda: Prop 2 Election Results by County

 

[HumbleMD]

pretty much... though it's not totally balanced. I live in Genesee county and republicans dont even bother running in most of the races around me, though go one county over to the east, and the place is about as conservative as you can get.

However, the west side has that whole psycho-Xtian element that spawned our latest GOP candidate for governor.

First the pro-Buckeyes, and now a Gators helmet? You really are bitter that they haven't given you an interview, aren't you? With a fickle, turn-coat attitude like that, I'd say they made a good choice...

 

[maestro1625]

First the pro-Buckeyes, and now a Gators helmet? You really are bitter that they haven't given you an interview, aren't you? With a fickle, turn-coat attitude like that, I'd say they made a good choice...

who's bitter? certainly not OSU and Wake forest (see the sig)

and honestly I probably would have moved on to a non-football related avatar had I not gotten constantly harassed on here for my original "O" logo one last month. And as I said before, I'm not sure why everyone in ann arbor believes that everyone else in the state has the obligation to support UMich athletic teams. A someone who grew up going to games in East Lansing, I'm quite amused by all the wolverines riding "the whaaaaaambulance."

 

[maestro1625]

ok, so the sig doesnt want to show up today... edit: there it is.

 

[Seanses]

I'm from the UP, so I really don't know much about the politics down here (despite going to school down here for 4.5 years now). But I think the East/West divide is pretty accurate, at least by population if not by geographical space. Oh, and to the poster who commented on how the rest of the state isn't always on-board with UM's agenda: Prop 2 Election Results by County

Coming from AA, this post depresses me very much. Excuse my bias but I think we should go private at the U of M and protect the last bastion in the state.

 

[UMP]

Coming from AA, this post depresses me very much. Excuse my bias but I think we should go private at the U of M and protect the last bastion in the state.

lmao

last bastion in the state

you lunatics make ann arbor a very interesting place to live...
the only thing I can think of is the prius/san francisco episode on south park... ann arborites love the smell of their own shit

 

[Charles Murphy]

This is somewhat related to the topic...I understand the frustrations of Ann Arborites, but not everyone agrees with you. It was really interesting to see the shift from my conservative hometown to liberal college town, and as one of my friends described it, "Ann Arbor is an island alone." I don't necessarily agree with this, but I think U-M should seriously consider privatizing especially considering the small amount of money the state spends to support us. I have great pride in Michigan, but IMHO this is a step back, somewhat like having the strictest rules on stem cell research besides one other state. The only true reason Michigan voted blue is because it is a heavily unionized state (read: votes democrat). Besides that, we are as conservative as most midwestern states.

That said, if the university privatized and cost the same for OOS and IS students, the standards would rise dramatically and reduce the massiveness of this school (from 24,000 undergrads to maybe 16,000) while keeping the percent of IS vs OOS the same. Since there would be more revenue coming in from the higher tuition (same for OOS and IS), U-M could then provide scholarships for 20k per year to make it the same price if it were public for instate students. This could affect both grad and undergrad positively and would allow U-M to surmount any political barriers imposed by the state. If the rest of Michigan wants to get rid of AA, that's fine...it is the will of the people. But they would have no right telling U-M how to admit students if we were private.

Then again, who knows if it will actually work. Just my 2 cents. Back to the topic..

 

[myleghurts]

This is somewhat related to the topic...I understand the frustrations of Ann Arborites, but not everyone agrees with you. It was really interesting to see the shift from my conservative hometown to liberal college town, and as one of my friends described it, "Ann Arbor is an island alone." I don't necessarily agree with this, but I think U-M should seriously consider privatizing especially considering the small amount of money the state spends to support us. I have great pride in Michigan, but IMHO this is a step back, somewhat like having the strictest rules on stem cell research besides one other state. The only true reason Michigan voted blue is because it is a heavily unionized state (read: votes democrat). Besides that, we are as conservative as most midwestern states.

That said, if the university privatized and cost the same for OOS and IS students, the standards would rise dramatically and reduce the massiveness of this school (from 24,000 undergrads to maybe 16,000) while keeping the percent of IS vs OOS the same. Since there would be more revenue coming in from the higher tuition (same for OOS and IS), U-M could then provide scholarships for 20k per year to make it the same price if it were public for instate students. This could affect both grad and undergrad positively and would allow U-M to surmount any political barriers imposed by the state. If the rest of Michigan wants to get rid of AA, that's fine...it is the will of the people. But they would have no right telling U-M how to admit students if we were private.

Then again, who knows if it will actually work. Just my 2 cents. Back to the topic..

Small amount of money spent to support U of M? You've got to be kidding. Get some numbers to back yourself up. U of M received the largest amount of funding for all of the state institutions in Michigan I believe.

 

[Hednej]

This is somewhat related to the topic...I understand the frustrations of Ann Arborites, but not everyone agrees with you. It was really interesting to see the shift from my conservative hometown to liberal college town, and as one of my friends described it, "Ann Arbor is an island alone." I don't necessarily agree with this, but I think U-M should seriously consider privatizing especially considering the small amount of money the state spends to support us. I have great pride in Michigan, but IMHO this is a step back, somewhat like having the strictest rules on stem cell research besides one other state. The only true reason Michigan voted blue is because it is a heavily unionized state (read: votes democrat). Besides that, we are as conservative as most midwestern states.

That said, if the university privatized and cost the same for OOS and IS students, the standards would rise dramatically and reduce the massiveness of this school (from 24,000 undergrads to maybe 16,000) while keeping the percent of IS vs OOS the same. Since there would be more revenue coming in from the higher tuition (same for OOS and IS), U-M could then provide scholarships for 20k per year to make it the same price if it were public for instate students. This could affect both grad and undergrad positively and would allow U-M to surmount any political barriers imposed by the state. If the rest of Michigan wants to get rid of AA, that's fine...it is the will of the people. But they would have no right telling U-M how to admit students if we were private.

Then again, who knows if it will actually work. Just my 2 cents. Back to the topic..

Is this even possible or has it happened before? What would be the logistics of going private from public? I've heard it the other way around, like UTSW was a private institution before the 90s I think

 

[whynot]

bump

 

[jeffsleepy]

So not worthy of a bump. To reiterate:

Deans: last cycle's problem
Prop 2: next cycle's problem

Now if you want me to bitch about UMich, I can, but these two are non-issues.

 

[Ridcully]

Now if you want me to bitch about UMich, I can, but these two are non-issues.

Please do! UMich is one school I am strongly considering, and so far nobody has pointed out any real problems with it. I know it can't be perfect, so do tell.

 

[DuckHunter]

bump

 

[HumbleMD]

Please do! UMich is one school I am strongly considering, and so far nobody has pointed out any real problems with it. I know it can't be perfect, so do tell.

I just trudged through snow to head to the coffee shop today. Snow that will be here for 2-3 more months.

Ann Arbor is indeed a quintessential college town, but if you're loking for a metropolitan city it is mot definitely not. Due to this, there is indeed a large grad population, but there's a whole lot of idiot young undergrads running amok in the city.

Other than that, the med school is incredible. I wish I could pick it up and move it to the west coast...