umich w/ full ride vs. hopkins

[wetlightning]

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this thread is a duplicate of one in pre-allo. thought that current med students might have better advice:

hey guys, i wouldn't normally do this, but i JUST found out that i got into hopkins. i'm thrilled, but considering how late it is in the season, i'm having a really tough time making a decision.

here's the deal: full ride at michigan. probably only fin aid at hopkins. strong interest in international health and academic medicine.

i'm also kind of worried about hopkins' location, but totally in love with the strong clinical training, the diversity of patients, etc.

advice? please?

 

[taekwondoc]

i would do the free ride to ANY school i think, and UM is actually a pretty good school from what i understand.

but i have no academic aspirations, I'm sure JH would open some doors for you, but to make it worth while u'd have to be serious about someday being head of a department or something.

where u do ur residency is more important than where u do medschool... if u wanna be a big shot u should train at a top place like Mass Gen, Columbia, JH, Duke...

Try and find the match list from UM. I come from a state school and we have people who matched in some good places but I've heard its harder for them than it is for people from the "top" med schools.

and congratulations, thats quite and accomplishment

 

[trudub]

UMich is a great school. Even with academic aspirations, UMich is a great school. If you are worried about rankings, it has great rankings every year too. This I think is a no brainer unless there is something about Hopkins that you feel like will really make you happy that UMich does not have. Otherwise, great school, full ride = go to UMich. But honestly, only you can make that decision. Where you attend has to be something that YOU buy into. Make a decision and go with it.

 

[azzarah]

I gave up a full ride to Baylor & another TX school to be at Hopkins. Basically, I just could not get myself to say no to hopkins, but I could say no to $$...I listened to my heart. I'm a third year now and in retrospect don't regret that decision one bit. However, this is a very personal decision and only YOU Can decide. Think about it carefully! Good luck!!!!

 

[satcool]

Here's the Hopkins Matchlist for 2005:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=2420800&postcount=23

U of M matchlist for 2006:

http://www.med.umich.edu/medstudents/curRes/M4/matchlist.pdf

While both schools are awesome, if you are really focused on a career in academic medicine, Hopkins will probably open up some "extra" doors. I think that Harvard and Hopkins really are in a prestige-level of their own, and rightfully so (the matchlist for Hopkins is truly top-notch). Also, I think other than the money and prestige aspects, you should really look at which school you would be happier at. While I think money should be a factor in your decision, you should look at which school is a better fit. In the long run, the extra debt can be paid off, but living with regrets is difficult🙂

 

[stephend7799]

before you take advice from anybody... ask them who they are and what level are they.. some of the above people may be college students although clearly not all of them.....

I am an anesthesia attending with NO academic aspirations..


Go with michigan free ride.. Great institution wont hold you back at all.. when you finish the most burdening thing will be the amount of money you owe.. Contrary to popular belief, it doesnt freakin matter where you go to medical school as long as its in the usa.. Its not like Business schools.. or law schools. It does matter then where you go to school. But as a whole.. all the medical schools teach the same stuff at the same pace and you take the same exact licensing exams and learn from the same patients.. There arent more unique patients in baltimore vs ann arbor..

 

[wetlightning]

anyone else who had to make a similar decision? i would be interested to hear your thought process.

 

[kid_ic]

judging from your posts in the pre-allo forum I'd say u want to go to Hopkins over Umich.

anyone else who had to make a similar decision? i would be interested to hear your thought process.

 

[996tt]

the fact that you even have to ask is amazing-unless you are a multimillionaire, take the free education from michigan. i went to mt. sinai, and in 25 years of practice, almost no one has asked me where i went to school.

 

[trudub]

I made a similar decision. I got into Duke, Wash U, Baylor, and Stanford but would have had no money at those schools. I have a full ride from University of Nebraska Medical Center. I chose UNMC. I think I am going to be really happy that I did when I have $200,000 less to pay back. The thing for me was that while I liked the more prestigious schools, there was nothing I did not like about UNMC. Had the situation been that I would have hated every second at UNMC, I would have paid the money. So, I think the question for you is whether or not you would be happy at UMich. If so, I really think you will be happy in the long run not having the extra debt. Your advantage over my situation is that UMich is a better known school than UNMC. UMich is certainly not going to close any doors for you. Good luck.

 

[mendel121]

this thread is a duplicate of one in pre-allo. thought that current med students might have better advice:

hey guys, i wouldn't normally do this, but i JUST found out that i got into hopkins. i'm thrilled, but considering how late it is in the season, i'm having a really tough time making a decision.

here's the deal: full ride at michigan. probably only fin aid at hopkins. strong interest in international health and academic medicine.

i'm also kind of worried about hopkins' location, but totally in love with the strong clinical training, the diversity of patients, etc.

advice? please?

Don't be silly, take the money - Take away the standing government contract that Hopkins has with the Feds, and UM gets more money every year than Hopkins from the NIH, The school of public health is a top 5 program with a great international health program. IMHO going to Hopkins might open doors on reputation alone, but no way it's worth a $250,000, just no way.

 

[Centinel]

here's the deal: full ride at michigan. probably only fin aid at hopkins. strong interest in international health and academic medicine.

I'm an undergrad, so take this with a grain... pillar maybe... of salt. My thoughts go like this: You want to be in academic medicine. Academic docs traditionally makes less than private practice docs. Debt load to some degree probably correlates with career decision (e.g., high debt pushes people away from the low-paying fields). To that extent, while the JHU rep can help for getting into a good residency, the JHU debt might actually hurt you when it comes to choosing to go into academic medicine.

 

[Baby Einstein]

I can't believe this is a dilemma for you. Go to UMich!

I've read the thread on pre-allo too and all the talk about living with regret if you don't pick Hopkins. Sure, if you pick UMich, you may wonder for a few months "what if?" But trust me, in 30 years, when you are an established physician, with a house, a spouse, and kids, the only regret you may have would be "if only I'd gone to UMich, I wouldn't still be paying this f#@$%g loan". Your choice is between two top-notch schools, you'll receive outstanding education at both, and your decision won't keep you from achieving what you want.

Honestly, it may be a tough decision now, but medical school will only be the center of your life for a few more years. And money does matter. Just ask your parents or any other middle-aged person, or even a younger person who's slightly non-trad.

 

[Sohalia]

I'd go to U Mich if I were you. They are both excellent schools, though Hopkins is slightly more prestigious among those in medicine. Among lay people Hopkins is probably considered a big deal. I don't think U Mich would close any doors for you vs. Hopkins, and the lack of debt will be great when you're through. That said, taking financial aid is worthwhile if you love the idea of going to Hopkins. You generally have 30 years to pay back financial aid loans and the interest rates are quite low. During residency/fellowship you can defer or go into forbearance (so either no or very low payments).

 

[drmota]

you can't go wrong either way. you can go to the worst med school in the country and as long as you are excellent at what you do, make it wherever you want to go. now, we're not even discussing two bad med schools, but two of the best in the country. the fact that you started a thread on this is silly. go with whatever feels right and will save you the most money.
-mota

 

[Clemson Doc]

You will get a good education either place, and Michigan is a fine school, but I would have a difficult time turning down Hopkins. Why? Because it's Hopkins, man. Sure, most people might not care, and a degree from Michigan will not hold you back, but does it matter to you? Will you feel like you "settled" or "only did it for the money" if you go to Michigan? If you can be happy at UMich, and will not ever wonder what it would have been like to train at a school like Hopkins, then go to Michigan. Otherwise, it would be tough for this guy to tell Hopkins no.

 

[manning18]

This is, by most accounts, a relatively easy choice. Most people would place Michigan in the "elite" category of Medical Schools. Within that category, Michigan would rank lower than Hopkins but, at the stage, the difference in rank is minimal. I would recommend going to University of Michigan. Your choosing Michigan over Hopkins will have little, if any (almost certainly none), detrimental affect towards achieving your ultimate career aspirations, whatever they maybe.

 

[Va-Jay-Jay]

Hey wetlightning, it sounds like you are in a place that 99% of med students could only dream of, but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to struggle with the decision.

Let's try looking at this from a different standpoint. Imagine yourself now choosing between two great residency programs (and let's forget about the ranking system for now), both of which will give you comparably excellent training in your field over your next four years. School A is more "prestigious" than school B, but they don't pay their residents a single dime. School B, on the other hand, pays their residents $50,000 / year. If you didn't care about prestige, as was mentioned earlier in the premed forum, then I can't for the life of me see any other choice but school B.

We are so comfortable thinking about huge amounts of debt that we have a difficult time really grasping that we'll be hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole when we start residency. Even in rereading that sentence, I'm still numb to the thought of it. I'm a fourth year med student who borrowed a little less than $200,000 for school. That figure has already ballooned upwards from accrued interest, and my guess is that I'll be paying nearly as much in interest as for the initial borrowed amount (I'd figure out the exact amount, but don't need the harsh reality at the moment). I didn't have the option of a free ride anywhere, but if I had and found myself in the position I am now regarding debt, I'd have some major regrets. Especially since a great medical education is a great medical education, whether its Hopkins or UMich.

But that's just my thought. Good luck with your decision, and don't look back once its made.

 

[BlondeCookie]

It boils down to this...

When you apply for residency, the Director is going to see UMich or Hopkins. He isn't going to see full ride UMich.

When you graduate, for the rest of your life, you are going to either have the degree from UMich or Hopkins. It's not going to have full ride on there anywhere.

What's the point? Well, the full ride may be nice now, but in the long run, how much are you really saving anyway? It's not like your doctor's salary isn't going to absorb those debts pretty quickly.

 

[Baby Einstein]

Well, the full ride may be nice now, but in the long run, how much are you really saving anyway? It's not like your doctor's salary isn't going to absorb those debts pretty quickly.

Absorb those debts pretty quickly? Some of you don't seem to live in the real world. Why do you think it takes most physicians DECADES to pay back their loans? They just enjoy dragging their debts along? I don't mean to be patronizing, but you need to talk to some grown-ups.

 

[BlondeCookie]

Absorb those debts pretty quickly? Some of you don't seem to live in the real world. Why do you think it takes most physicians DECADES to pay back their loans? They just enjoy dragging their debts along? I don't mean to be patronizing, but you need to talk to some grown-ups.

Come on. Decades? Like as in plural?! So, decades huh? How many, 2? 3? More? So basically you are saying it takes most physicians at least 20 or more years to pay off their student loans. Correct? Um. I don't think so. Sorry.

 

[Baby Einstein]

Come on. Decades? Like as in plural?! So, decades huh? How many, 2? 3? More? So basically you are saying it takes most physicians at least 20 or more years to pay off their student loans. Correct? Um. I don't think so. Sorry.

Maybe not most physicians. But certainly most physicians who have 150K+ of debts (+interests). The average physician salary you read about is nothing like what you'll take home. Don't forget there's such a thing as income tax, medicare/SS tax, various types of insurance, etc. Also, by the time you finish residency, you won't be 22 anymore and you'll most likely have other responsibilities such as mortgage, childcare, savings for an emergency (not even talking about retirement/kids' college) etc.

Seriously, talk to established physicians. On this forum, you're surrounded by other premeds/med students who, for the majority, have to take out huge amounts of loans. People tend to think it's the norm, no big deal. This is an enormous amount of money, it can't be trivialized. You certainly shouldn't take my word for it. But "Um. I don't think so. Sorry" isn't exactly a good way to inform yourself.

 

[gschl1234]

Come on. Decades? Like as in plural?! So, decades huh? How many, 2? 3? More? So basically you are saying it takes most physicians at least 20 or more years to pay off their student loans. Correct? Um. I don't think so. Sorry.

First of all, congratulations to the OP!!! You're going to be fine either way. Where do you think you'd actually be happier?

Now this is off topic but does anyone have an idea of how long it takes the average doctor to pay off his/her loans? I'd been assuming less than 10 years but does anyone actually know or care to share your own experience?

 

[Bubchik]

First of all, congratulations to the OP!!! You're going to be fine either way. Where do you think you'd actually be happier?

Now this is off topic but does anyone have an idea of how long it takes the average doctor to pay off his/her loans? I'd been assuming less than 10 years but does anyone actually know or care to share your own experience?

Op, have u found out what kind of finaid is offered by Hopkins? Our scholarships are need based, so if you need a merit based one you won't find it here.
I know lots of people in our class whose tuition was free (meaning 33K in grants or even more).
If $ is a big issue just wait for Hopkins finaid letter.
PM me if you have questions.
AK

 

[Baby Einstein]

I'd be interested too if anyone has this info. However, keep several things in mind:
- average length of repayment is going to include ANY student, including those who took out minimal amounts of loans. It's also going to include all specialties. If you take out 50K every year and go into primary care, this average length of payment will have no significance to you.

- if this average is based on physicians who have finished paying back, they started school AT LEAST 7 years ago, most likely longer than that. And unfortunately, school tuition has been increasing and physician's salaries decreasing.

This is an interesting publication:
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/5349.html

Personally, I know many primary care physicians who are 5-10 years out of residency and don't foresee being able to pay off the rest of their loans within the next 10 years. It may have been consolidated with other debts and mortgage but it's still there.

Even more personally, I'm married to a physician (no school loans - had a full ride) and it will take us 30 years to pay off our home. Maybe it will be less once I'm out of residency myself, but at least 20 years. And we're not talking about a mansion here, just about the cost of 4 years of tuition at a private institution. Plus we started paying right away, so interests didn't accumulate over several years before we started repayment. We're not living in luxury at all. We do have 2 dependents.

Once again, I'm not trying to be condescending or patronizing. I just think it's dangerous to only talk to people your age about these things. They don't know much more than you do about living in the real world. Talk to established physicians, in different specialties.

Good luck to the OP with his or her decision.

 

[dajimmers]

Hey wetlightning, I'm facing a similar situation, but between HMS and UMich + scholarship. I may have already said this in the pre-allo thread, but I can't remember...

I too am very interested in academic medicine, and like another poster said, that leaves me with two conflicting viewpoints: HMS/JHU are undoubtedly more renowned for academic reputation, but at the same time they also cost a bit more, which is bad for those of us considering lower-wage academic work. For me, HMS is looking to be ~$20,000 more per year, give or take, plus interest on some of it. That’s not a horrible difference to me, but it is appreciable.

I am trying to get in contact with more residents and practicing physicians to get another view of the reputation/cost debate, but at the moment I’m most likely to make the decision based on what school I can see myself enjoying with the least regret and am definitely revisiting both schools.

Best of luck to you in your decision! It’s win-win, so don’t worry too much!

 

[MacGyver]

Don't be silly, take the money - Take away the standing government contract that Hopkins has with the Feds, and UM gets more money every year than Hopkins from the NIH.

Thats a flat out lie. Please check your facts first

 

[BlondeCookie]

I'd be interested too if anyone has this info. However, keep several things in mind:
- average length of repayment is going to include ANY student, including those who took out minimal amounts of loans. It's also going to include all specialties. If you take out 50K every year and go into primary care, this average length of payment will have no significance to you.

- if this average is based on physicians who have finished paying back, they started school AT LEAST 7 years ago, most likely longer than that. And unfortunately, school tuition has been increasing and physician's salaries decreasing.

This is an interesting publication:
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/5349.html

Personally, I know many primary care physicians who are 5-10 years out of residency and don't foresee being able to pay off the rest of their loans within the next 10 years. It may have been consolidated with other debts and mortgage but it's still there.

Even more personally, I'm married to a physician (no school loans - had a full ride) and it will take us 30 years to pay off our home. Maybe it will be less once I'm out of residency myself, but at least 20 years. And we're not talking about a mansion here, just about the cost of 4 years of tuition at a private institution. Plus we started paying right away, so interests didn't accumulate over several years before we started repayment. We're not living in luxury at all. We do have 2 dependents.

Once again, I'm not trying to be condescending or patronizing. I just think it's dangerous to only talk to people your age about these things. They don't know much more than you do about living in the real world. Talk to established physicians, in different specialties.

Good luck to the OP with his or her decision.

You don't have to be Einstein to figure out if you buy that big fat house on the hill overlooking the lake with your nice Mercedes SUV parked outside, that OBVIOUSLY it's going to take more time to pay off those student loans. Come on! This is ridiculous. We are talking about paying off your student loans. Not paying off your student loans while you take out separate loans for a huge azz house, cars, etc. etc. Think! It is NOT going to take 20-30-40 years for a person, a doctor, to pay off his student loans unless he does something like the example illustrated with the big house, fancy cars, etc. Decades? For most physicians. I don't think so.

 

[mendel121]

Thats a flat out lie. Please check your facts first

Wow, you're a tremendous a$$hole.

A fact I was told by Research Development at UM - I've since looked it up, you're right, sorry to have made such an egregious error, I hope that I can recover from this intellectual beating.

 

[BozoSparky]

I would probably go to Hopkins. If you want into academic medicine, you'll just love being around the stars. It'll be a hell of a ride. I agree there's not much of a difference training-wise.

It's the name, that's what we are talking about, right? Is the Hopkins name worth the cash? I think so. It's an amazing feat - accepted to Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. Wow! 😍 Congrats on your dilemma. 👍

I am not practical, so keep this in mind.


You are going to be ok. Don't listen to us. Go with your gut.

 

[DrRobert]

UMich hands down.

 

[fantasty]

I can't believe this is a dilemma for you. Go to UMich!

👍 Agreed. UMich is honestly an outstanding school. The people I know there are MUCH happier than those at JHU. There will be NO doors closed for you from UMich.

 

[Dr.Phenomena]

Go to the school that you will be happiest in, and hence the place that you will perform better in. Your individual performance is what matters most when you apply for residencies and fellowships in the future, much more than the name of your school. It is your residency and fellowship that will have more of an effect on your career in academic medicine. I go to an unranked med school, however several of our fourth years end up in places like Johns Hopkins, Emory, Mayo, Brigham Women's hospital, Stanford etc.

 

[orangecatmd]

Go Hopkins!!! Dont ask med students, ask real MDs. It is a huge desicion you are making. I talked to a few real ones about it. They said if you do Hopkins or Harvard or such, you will make an extra 100K per year. The loans will be easy to pay off. In the end, you will make a lot more money. And yes, it is the residency that matters, but you get into residency you want by first getting into the best med school. 😳

 

[Baby Einstein]

You don't have to be Einstein to figure out if you buy that big fat house on the hill overlooking the lake with your nice Mercedes SUV parked outside, that OBVIOUSLY it's going to take more time to pay off those student loans. Come on! This is ridiculous. We are talking about paying off your student loans. Not paying off your student loans while you take out separate loans for a huge azz house, cars, etc. etc. Think! It is NOT going to take 20-30-40 years for a person, a doctor, to pay off his student loans unless he does something like the example illustrated with the big house, fancy cars, etc. Decades? For most physicians. I don't think so.

OK BlondeCookie, let me just clarify.

First, when I said decades, I didn't mean 40 years. I meant decades from the time you take out your loans (i.e., beginning of med school), so maybe 10-15 years out of residency. Of course if you're a hotshot radiologist, you can make it quicker. If you're a psychiatrist, pediatrician, family practitioner, and you live in an area with high cost of living, good luck making it in that timeframe.

Second, a 200K house is far from a "big fat house on the hill overlooking the lake". I drive a Honda Civic and my husband drives an Altima. No Mercedes SUV. We're living comfortably but not in luxury by any means. We still won't be able to pay our mortgage in 10 years... If my husband had student loans, he'd still be paying them, that's for sure.

Regardless, you won't keep living on your student budget once you're out of residency. Let's assume you finish residency at age 30, and you want to pay off in 5-10 years (is that your estimate?). Are you going to wait until you're 40 to buy your first house? To get a decent car? To take your kids to DisneyWorld (or wherever)? Speaking of kids, I pay 10K per year per child for daycare. That's the on-campus daycare, with student discount, in a low-cost area. It can easily be twice that much. Bottom line, you can't put all your income in paying off your student loans, unfortunately.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong. I actually HOPE I'm wrong and BlondeCookie is right. But please please please, don't just assume so. Talk to people, get informed. With that said, OF COURSE money shouldn't keep you from going to med school if that's your dream. You'll make it regardless. But I guarantee you, these loans will be a burden.

So going back to the OP, if you can avoid huge debts and still go to a fantastic school, do it! No doors will be closed, and money won't be a factor when deciding what kind of practice you want, where you want to live, etc. You'll have more flexibility and you'll be free of debt. Good luck to you.

 

[QofQuimica]

Here is a thread I started in the General Residency Forum that might be helpful for some of you wondering about the debt issue. Well, I thought the post from kiddr was helpful, anyway. 😛

 

[DrDarwin]

Go Hopkins!!! Dont ask med students, ask real MDs. It is a huge desicion you are making. I talked to a few real ones about it. They said if you do Hopkins or Harvard or such, you will make an extra 100K per year. The loans will be easy to pay off. In the end, you will make a lot more money. And yes, it is the residency that matters, but you get into residency you want by first getting into the best med school. 😳

Who are these "real MDs?" There's no way you are automatically going to make an extra $100K/yr because you graduated from any medical school. You may make that much more if, like many of our grads, you decide to enter a private internal medicine practice on Park Avenue that does not take insurance.

Graduates from certain schools may choose to enter more competitive specialities on average, and they are certainly more likely to gain coveted residencies, both of which will increase earnings, but graduating from a particular medical school will not ensure that you make an hundred grand per year.

 

[yellowcat322]

You can't really compare student loans to a mortgage. Student loans are the least expensive loans you're ever going to have in your life. At the interest rate they have right now it actually makes sense to hold on to those loans for as long as possible. It's not always smart to pay it off as quickly as you can. Instead of pouring all of your money into your loan payments you can put it towards low risk investments and still make enough to cover the interest and have extra cash on top of that. So even if takes the full 30 years to pay off your loans -- it's not a big deal. THe real question of course is whether Hopkins is worth $250,000 and that's a very personal choice. No one should criticize the OP for struggling with this decision. Just look at the diametrically opposite responses on this thread -- this is not a black and white issue. It's not shallow to go Hopkins just for its rep. If that makes you feel better about yourself or push yourself harder then it may make a bigger difference then you think. Not to mention the contacts that you will make there. On the other hand, I do believe that there is little difference between medical schools and most people who can be happy in med school would be happy in any med school (just my opinion).

 

[BlondeCookie]

First, when I said decades, I didn't mean 40 years. I meant decades from the time you take out your loans (i.e., beginning of med school), so maybe 10-15 years out of residency. Of course if you're a hotshot radiologist, you can make it quicker. If you're a psychiatrist, pediatrician, family practitioner, and you live in an area with high cost of living, good luck making it in that timeframe.

Second, a 200K house is far from a "big fat house on the hill overlooking the lake". I drive a Honda Civic and my husband drives an Altima. No Mercedes SUV. We're living comfortably but not in luxury by any means. We still won't be able to pay our mortgage in 10 years... If my husband had student loans, he'd still be paying them, that's for sure.

Bottom line, you can't put all your income in paying off your student loans, unfortunately.

Come on. We are talking about student loan debts here. Not student loan debts + the 200k house mortgage + car payments + kids + etc. etc. etc. NOW, you are talking about paying off ALL debts, not just student loan debts. Most everyone is going to have those issues. Hey, if you want to live on frugal means while you are in med school and residency, but then as soon as you get done with residency, get a mortgage for a 200k house, a car loan, kids, etc. Don't blame your debt situation on student loans.

Secondly, obviously while you are in med school, you are accruing that debt. So, you aren't going to be able to pay it off. Therefore it stands to reason that until you actually make some money (residency and onwards) do you actually begin to "pay" off those student loans. In a nutshell, you start to pay off those loans when you 1) finished accruing all your student loan debts and 2) start making money. So, the clock starts ticking as soon as you graduate. Ask a bank.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Come on. We are talking about student loan debts here. Not student loan debts + the 200k house mortgage + car payments + kids + etc. etc. etc. NOW, you are talking about paying off ALL debts, not just student loan debts. Most everyone is going to have those issues. Hey, if you want to live on frugal means while you are in med school and residency, but then as soon as you get done with residency, get a mortgage for a 200k house, a car loan, kids, etc. Don't blame your debt situation on student loans.

Secondly, obviously while you are in med school, you are accruing that debt. So, you aren't going to be able to pay it off. Therefore it stands to reason that until you actually make some money (residency and onwards) do you actually begin to "pay" off those student loans. In a nutshell, you start to pay off those loans when you 1) finished accruing all your student loan debts and 2) start making money. So, the clock starts ticking as soon as you graduate. Ask a bank.

Do you plan on living in a 200 sq ft studio for the next 10 yrs while you pay those loans+ interest off? Oh yeah, make sure that you start paying them off during residency, when you gross about $38-40K as an R1.

 

[Miami_med]

If you take the scholarship, you may actually be able to afford to enter Academic Medicine. Hopkins Tuition + Baltimore living costs will look good on a resume, but they will reak havoc on a bank account. Michigan is an excellent school. Take it from someone who just borrowed his first $40,000. Free is good.

 

[KluverBucy]

no brainer. go with MICHIGAN. free ride for sure. not to mention, it really doesn't matter the name of where you went to med school. as long as you do well in your classes and get good board scores, you can go to JH for residency or MGH or UCSF or where ever you want to go.

i'm about to graduate and as i plan my life and realize all the expenses i have to look forward to, i realize that it would be much better if i didn't have a quarter mil hanging over my head. i'd def take the free ride any day. and UM is a very good school as well!

 

[BlondeCookie]

Do you plan on living in a 200 sq ft studio for the next 10 yrs while you pay those loans+ interest off? Oh yeah, make sure that you start paying them off during residency, when you gross about $38-40K as an R1.

Yes, but why even bother with that? I mean let's use your logic and live the high life while in med school. That's right. So long as we are going to accrue other debts besides school loans then to hell with the studio apartment! Might as well start early and get the nice house and fancy car while still going to school. 😎

 

[Baby Einstein]

Come on. We are talking about student loan debts here. Not student loan debts + the 200k house mortgage + car payments + kids + etc. etc. etc. NOW, you are talking about paying off ALL debts, not just student loan debts. Most everyone is going to have those issues. Hey, if you want to live on frugal means while you are in med school and residency, but then as soon as you get done with residency, get a mortgage for a 200k house, a car loan, kids, etc. Don't blame your debt situation on student loans.

That's exactly my point. You are going to have to take other loans. And so your student loans will take longer to pay off. You can't separate your debt situation from your student loans. Debt is debt. You can either have debt from life or debt from life + 200K from school.

What are you planning to do? Buy your first house after you pay off your school loans? Have your first kid after you pay off your house? Save for retirement after you send your kids to college? Obviously, you might be able to pay off your loans in 5 years if that's all you pay for, but you have to start living at some point.

And just so you know, I don't know where you live but 200K won't even buy you a studio in many parts of the country. And if you're female and you wait until you're done with your school loans before you start considering kids, you might as well include IVF in your budget.

 

[BlondeCookie]

That's exactly my point. You are going to have to take other loans. And so your student loans will take longer to pay off. You can't separate your debt situation from your student loans.

Oh yes you can. You blame your debt situation on student loans, when in reality your student loans are much less and carry a far lower interest rate than
1) 200K+ Home Mortgage
2) Car loans for you and your partner
3) kids

So, if you want to blame your debt situation on you wanting to have a life, so be it. That's your choice. But don't say that it's going to take decades to pay off your student loan debts, when in reality your student loan debts are going to be less of a burden than your fat house, nice cars, kids, etc.

 

[mendel121]

Oh yes you can. You blame your debt situation on student loans, when in reality your student loans are much less and carry a far lower interest rate than
1) 200K+ Home Mortgage
2) Car loans for you and your partner
3) kids

This is only true if you've gotten your student before now, and won't get anymore - the interest rate for loans will be fixed at 6.8% (staffords) after July 1 which is much higher than car rates, or mortgate rates, and since they're fixed now, this will likely always be the case.

 

[Baby Einstein]

Oh yes you can. You blame your debt situation on student loans, when in reality your student loans are much less and carry a far lower interest rate than
1) 200K+ Home Mortgage
2) Car loans for you and your partner
3) kids

So, if you want to blame your debt situation on you wanting to have a life, so be it. That's your choice. But don't say that it's going to take decades to pay off your student loan debts, when in reality your student loan debts are going to be less of a burden than your fat house, nice cars, kids, etc.

You know, this was never about my personal debt situation. I don't even have student loans yet! My mortgage is 5.875%, we bought both cars used without loans, and I'm certainly not apologizing for having kids. I was just talking about debt IN GENERAL, not mine! Just things 22-year olds may not consider, but that will come into play by the time you need to repay. Yes, the majority of us will want to have a house, a car, and kids by the time residency is over.

I never said that student loans would be more of a burden than a mortgage. But it will be an additional burden, and not an unsignificant one. And if you're able to get lower interest rates on your student loans than on your mortgage, you will keep you student loans for last. And then it WILL take you DECADES (plural) to pay off your student loans. Isn't that what the original debate was?

I'm not saying you will live in poverty because of your loans, far from that, or that you should give up on medical school. I'm saying you will drag them along for years and years. And you may not mind now, but once you have a life, you will. You need to think in depth about those things if you have a choice, like the OP.

Now if you want to keep attacking my personal situation, I'm not going to bother replying. I'll let you live in your rose-colored world. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[BlondeCookie]

You know, this was never about my personal debt situation. I don't even have student loans yet! My mortgage is 5.875%, we bought both cars used without loans, and I'm certainly not apologizing for having kids. I was just talking about debt IN GENERAL, not mine! Just things 22-year olds may not consider, but that will come into play by the time you need to repay. Yes, the majority of us will want to have a house, a car, and kids by the time residency is over.

I never said that student loans would be more of a burden than a mortgage. But it will be an additional burden, and not an unsignificant one. And if you're able to get lower interest rates on your student loans than on your mortgage, you will keep you student loans for last. And then it WILL take you DECADES (plural) to pay off your student loans. Isn't that what the original debate was?

I'm not saying you will live in poverty because of your loans, far from that, or that you should give up on medical school. I'm saying you will drag them along for years and years. And you may not mind now, but once you have a life, you will. You need to think in depth about those things if you have a choice, like the OP.

Now if you want to keep attacking my personal situation, I'm not going to bother replying. I'll let you live in your rose-colored world. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Chill out dude. We were talking about student loan debts NOT student loan debts + 200k house + cars + kids. It's not going to take someone 20-30-40 years to pay off their student loans debts. Obviously. You are the one that brought up your personal situation, so relax! It isn't about you and never was. It's your life. So live it the way you want and quit complaining. Talk about having a cow. So, go on and buy a new house and get new cars and have some more kids. I don't care.

 

[Bfriccia1]

no brainer. go with MICHIGAN. free ride for sure. not to mention, it really doesn't matter the name of where you went to med school. as long as you do well in your classes and get good board scores, you can go to JH for residency or MGH or UCSF or where ever you want to go.

i'm about to graduate and as i plan my life and realize all the expenses i have to look forward to, i realize that it would be much better if i didn't have a quarter mil hanging over my head. i'd def take the free ride any day. and UM is a very good school as well!

I think that you should disregard money and go where you want to go most. In the four years (possibly more) that you spend in medical school, having 80k less in loans is not going to make you happier. If you feel like the only reason you would go to Michigan would be the money, then definitely don't go because you will be "what-iffing" yourself for the rest of your life. If on the other hand, money being equal, Michigan and Hopkins are really close together on your own personal list then its ok for money to tip the balance.

 

[almost_there]

Chill out dude. We were talking about student loan debts NOT student loan debts + 200k house + cars + kids. It's not going to take someone 20-30-40 years to pay off their student loans debts. Obviously. You are the one that brought up your personal situation, so relax! It isn't about you and never was. It's your life. So live it the way you want and quit complaining. Talk about having a cow. So, go on and buy a new house and get new cars and have some more kids. I don't care.

I think one of the intents of the OP is to ask what impact an additional $200K in student loans will have on his/her future. In all likelihood, that future will include family, car(s), mortgages, etc.. Thus, the question becomes, how will an additional $200K in student debt impact decisions and quality of life in an expected future w/other loans, kids, etc.. Your point, that student loans ALONE can be paid back in a relatively short time frame with a doctor's salary, is not all that useful in most people's situations, since they will likely be facing other debts.

In the end, it boils down to the OP's values and preferences. After med school and residency, does he/she want to have kids? A house? A nice car? Live in a nice (expensive) part of the country? Maybe the choice of specialty will be influenced by the debt -- e.g. really would like to be a pediatrician, but at pediatrician salaries, can't have the standard of living with a large student debt, so a more well-compensated specialty is attractive.

Reality is that money matters, and debt matters. Reputation, quality of life, lifestyle (during medical school, residency, and after) all matter too. It's not an easy choice.