Undergrad Burnout: Ophthalmology or Leave it all behind?

[ds2606]

Hi all,

I'm a senior graduating undergrad next week, and have been re-evaluating my life priorities quite a bit. I fortunately have a very competitive GPA and MCAT from a top-10 school, have finished my prereqs. However, I'm strongly considering walking away from the med-school path completely (& becoming a 9-12 science teacher) due to burnout.

Is it possible in ophthalmology to (or are there other specialities in which you can) work <35-40 hours a week, and take >8 weeks of (unpaid) vacation time a year? I'm honestly just exhausted, feel like I've already sacrificed too many relationships and experiences without even having started med school, and want to look forward to a life with a family and time to take them hiking, travelling, etc. I don't care about money or luxury, and would be happy making <100k/yr as a doctor if it means I could work these hours and take this amount of time off. Thanks for any input, it's extremely appreciated <3

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[CarpetWindow7]

Sorry to hear you are going through this. Regardless of medical specialty, once you are done with medical training and on your own, you can tailor your practice to whatever you desire. You will most definitely be missing out on life, family events, etc. during medical school and residency. The road is not easy, especially if you want to pursue an Ophthalmology residency. It will be your call ultimately, but it sounds like you have at least 8-10 years of just sucking it up and rolling with what life gives you. I'm in my first year of residency and let me just say that 80 hour weeks are the norm, not the exception most months on internal medicine.

 

[Say]

I would recommend taking some time off (like a year or two) to travel or work in some other capacity. Use that time for some self-reflection and decide what you want to do from there. It seems to be the norm that people take that amount of time between undergrad and med school, so don't worry about being "behind."

 

[MstaKing10]

Sorry but med school will be exponentially more difficult, time intensive and exhausting. Residency is more of the same. I’m glad you came to realization now, but from the sounds of it, I’m not sure you will be able to play through med school to residency and finish happy with your choice at the end. Medicine as a career is full of burnt out doctors, so don’t expect it to get dramatically easier once you graduate (although it is nicer). You need to do a lot of soul searching before committing major time and money into med school, if there’s something else that would make you just as happy and fulfill your life goals then go for that. I’m sure you are looking for opinions from lots of different sources, but online from total strangers is rather difficult, so take mine with a grain of salt. Best of luck

 

[deleted480308]

If undergrad is burning you out, you probably aren’t ready for the grinding it will take to match optho

 

[WhatNEyeTem]

How are you even interested in Ophtho at all at this young point in your life? I don't think I even knew what an eyeball was when I was 21 years old!

 

[NITRAS]

I had a life, have kids, and enjoyed the ride most of residency. I survived med school.

Yes I had lots of 80 hours weeks. Most were more like 60 hour, with a few wonderful 35 hour weeks.

There are almost unlimited variations of work for phycisians. Most of it at least fairly lucrative.

If I was you, I’d do some soul searching. I have no idea what is “burning” you out. Med school was easily 10 times more work than undergrad. If you couldn’t stand to do another test, med school isn’t for you.

BUT.... I’ve never met a teacher in public school who didn’t complain about:
1. Number of hours they work
2. The kids/ parents
3. The pay
4. The administration
5. The socialist pay structure.
6. Did I mention the pay?

The LAST thing I would want to be is a HS teacher. I would be a teacher, but in such a way where I had more control over what I did and my income.

 

[Trichromatic]

Sorry but med school will be exponentially more difficult, time intensive and exhausting. {snip snip} Best of luck

If undergrad is burning you out, you probably aren’t ready for the grinding it will take to match optho

Sorry, but my undergrad was harder than med school and I was a little burned out going in, so I can empathize with the OP. I also worked long hours Summer before med school to pay for my move/rent so that didn't help. A lot of colleges inflate grades or are simply not competitive, but a few are very difficult. I transferred from a less competitive state school into a top undergrad with grade deflation (n=1, I know, but still). I was top 5% on boards and matched in my top 3 in ophtho (barely got into med school though).

To the OP, think hard. They are certainly right about ophtho, and medicine in general, being a long and arduous path. I love it, but there will be many more late nights, missed family events (including funerals and weddings), and a constantly changing medical field. You can definitely do it, and once you're an attending you can certainly have a wonderful lifestyle. Honestly, I can't imagine doing anything else, other than maybe early retirement and opening a brewery

 

[skarim]

Sorry, but my undergrad was harder than med school and I was a little burned out going in. I also worked long hours Summer before med school to pay for my move/rent so that didn't help. A lot of colleges inflate grades or are simply not competitive, but a few are very difficult. I transferred from a less competitive state school into a top undergrad with grade deflation (n=1, I know, but still). I was top 5% on boards and matched in my top 3 in ophtho (barely got into med school though).

To the OP, think hard. They are certainly right about ophtho, and medicine in general, being a long and arduous path. I love it, but there will be many more late nights, missed family events (including funerals and weddings), and a constantly changing medical field. You can definitely do it, and once you're an attending you can certainly have a wonderful lifestyle. Honestly, I can't imagine doing anything else, other than maybe early retirement and opening a brewery

Agree it’s early to be burnt out. Medical school is hard, residency is hard, fellowship is hard, the first few years of practice are stressful. Only then does it get better.

Take a breather and re-evaluate.

 

[SurgDoc95]

“Woe is me! I’m graduating with good stats and the ability to get into a great Med school but feel burnt out. Can a very hard to get into specialty work minimal hours with really good vacation time? If so that might get me to be motivated again.” Spare us all the whining and go be a science teacher. Those that work hard and make the sacrifices reap the benefits.

I fully get being burnt out, but have a hard time sympathizing with under grad burnout. If you’re burnt out now either take time off to regroup then start Med school or give up and go teach. It doesn’t get easier the further along you go in your education regardless of what one poster’s experience happened to be.


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[Slide]

Take a year or two off. Don't start medical school until your heart is really set to it.

As ophthalmology goes, it can be one of the more flexible fields if you want it to be. After seeing what my wife has experienced in education and teaching, I will say that the grass is always greener on the other side...as a teacher, you may be working 60-80 hour weeks too, except you won't be paid for it. If you plan to work in the public school system too, you'll have a set of issues that you wish you could trade for residency (for instance, you won't be forced to buy supplies for your patients unlike what many school teachers have to do, and possible threats of layoff). I know a few ophthlamologists who work part time or at the VA, and their lifestyle is unparalled while making a good clip.

 

[hurdlepup]

So I taught for two years, middle school science and social studies. It solidified my desire to do medicine. You can always try teaching. I found it to be way harder than medical school and residency. Both are rewarding fields though and you’ll just have to see what you like.


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[Etorphine]

just when you thought undergrad was tough, the rabbit hole deepens. making it to attending level of ophtho will work you harder than you ever thought possible. based on what you've described, it's probably not right for you..save yourself many headaches and grey hairs down the road

 

[Trefoil]

This is the perfect time to go enjoy life for one to two years. I went straight through out of necessity, but if I had a choice, I would have taken a year to travel. You are young, so you have plenty of time to decide. I know of individuals who actually were high school teachers who went back to school and then went into medicine. You don’t need to make a decision today or even in the next year. Don’t go to medical school when you are still burnt out. Take time to recover and gain some perspective. There are plenty of great consulting jobs you can get or work at Epic for a couple of years (I went to a similar kind of undergrad, and they recruit people from good schools heavily with a multitude of backgrounds.)

I would disagree with many of the statements above. My undergraduate education was infinitely more hard than medical school. There was a very competitive premed culture, and I was in a program that required a lot of external work in order to maintain my scholarship (i.e. working to pay for school.) The caveat is that my first two years of med school were pass/fail. In the first two years of medical school I went to the gym every day, spent a ton of time with my current wife, did fun things every week, and mostly hung out at coffee shops reading. It was not bad at all. The stress of Step 1 is pretty bad, but beyond that, I feel like it was a chill time. MS3 year is a shock to the system as you realize how much doctors work, and you do feel a loss of freedom at that time, but there are good months and bad months. MS4 year is half chaos and half an extended vacation. You do get to travel a lot MS4 year which is pretty awesome.

I did a TY year for my intern year, and it honestly was not bad at all. Much better hours than even MS3 year and more fun honestly. Sure, I had 80 hour work weeks, but those were broken up by outpatient months where I worked 40 hours a week and had weekends.

First year of Ophtho residency is pretty intense. There is a really steep learning curve with a lot of reading and a lot of call. That being said, most weeks were roughly 60 hour work weeks with a lot of reading on top. I have gone to conferences which has been pretty cool in that I am still traveling in residency. I spent a week in Hawaii paid by my program...that’s pretty unbelievable. I also spent like 3-4 days in San Diego, and I have taken three weeks of vacation. I have most weekends off. Most attendings work 40 hour work weeks and take a ton of vacation. We are by no means a malignant/workaholic field. I would emphasize that there are plenty of good lifestyle specialties in medicine. Dermatology, Radiology, PMR, Psychiatry, I guess you could add anesthesiology to that list. Ophthalmology is a great field, but you don’t want to pigeon hole yourself into a single specialty mindset too early in med school. I only found ophthalmology because I went in with an open mind.

 

[y123]

Plenty of specialities will allow u to work "<35-40 hours a week, and take >8 weeks of (unpaid) vacation time a year" if u only need "making <100k/yr"
Lots of jobs that do not need a doctorate will offer you that too. Plus u will be debt free and make money early.

 

[atomi]

I don't care about money or luxury, and would be happy making <100k/yr as a doctor if it means I could work these hours and take this amount of time off. Thanks for any input, it's extremely appreciated <3

Free advice: If you don't care about money, you will get owned by someone else who does. You need to care about money. This is an incredibly ignorant statement. If you go through 4 years of med school and 5 years of subspecialty training + fellowship, you are worth far more than 100k/year. If you are happy making this and don't care about your value, then someone else will be making a fortune off your labor. Medical school and residency is an enormous investment in yourself.

Yes, there are plenty of specialties where you can work 2-3 days a week and make $200k-$300k/year. But you will typically have to put in some sweat equity to get to that point.

You are young, and the transition from college to real world is hard. Everybody goes through it. The days of sleeping to noon and having free afternoons during the week are over. Your priorities will change throughout your 20s and 30s as you marry and maybe start a family. You will hopefully realize the importance of maximizing your retirement investments in your early working years. You will adapt. It will be ok. Lots of people don't have the drive to become a physician and just want the 8-5 M-F $60k entry level job as a 22 year old. That's fine. You'll be making $150k/year with $500k+ in retirement assets by the time most people are finishing residency. It's up to you.

Also, don't become a 9-12 teacher. That is not a good career unless your heart is truly in it. The politics are dumbfounding and your life will be poor and miserable. Find a good $60k entry level job in a big corporation if you don't want med school. If you are not qualified for it now, then get a master's degree in something that will qualify you.

 

[Slide]

Free advice: If you don't care about money, you will get owned by someone else who does. You need to care about money. This is an incredibly ignorant statement. If you go through 4 years of med school and 5 years of subspecialty training + fellowship, you are worth far more than 100k/year. If you are happy making this and don't care about your value, then someone else will be making a fortune off your labor. Medical school and residency is an enormous investment in yourself.

Yes, there are plenty of specialties where you can work 2-3 days a week and make $200k-$300k/year. But you will typically have to put in some sweat equity to get to that point.

You are young, and the transition from college to real world is hard. Everybody goes through it. The days of sleeping to noon and having free afternoons during the week are over. Your priorities will change throughout your 20s and 30s as you marry and maybe start a family. You will hopefully realize the importance of maximizing your retirement investments in your early working years. You will adapt. It will be ok. Lots of people don't have the drive to become a physician and just want the 8-5 M-F $60k entry level job as a 22 year old. That's fine. You'll be making $150k/year with $500k+ in retirement assets by the time most people are finishing residency. It's up to you.

Also, don't become a 9-12 teacher. That is not a good career unless your heart is truly in it. The politics are dumbfounding and your life will be poor and miserable. Find a good $60k entry level job in a big corporation if you don't want med school. If you are not qualified for it now, then get a master's degree in something that will qualify you.

OP, listen to this man. I chose a career path in academics where I know I won’t make as much as my private colleagues and I still have to worry about money. Your perspective will change in 5-10 years and you’ll realize how important it is to value your own work and net worth.

By the way, the grass always seems greener on the other side. My wife is in education and from what I’ve seen, your hours aren’t really that better, and when you divvy up how much you make in an hour, it’s laughable. There will be rough stretches in medicine, but guess what? Ask any professional with a successful career and they will tell you the sacrifices they had to make.

If you’re dead set on a 8-5, punch the clock kind of job, there are plenty of consulting gigs you can get out there. If you’re from a top 10, it shouldn’t be very hard. Many of my college friends (I too went to a top 10) chose business/consulting and dropped out of the pre-med rat race. They are doing quite handsomely, though the 8-5 thing does not always hold up.

 

[phacoforever]

Free advice: If you don't care about money, you will get owned by someone else who does. You need to care about money. This is an incredibly ignorant statement. If you go through 4 years of med school and 5 years of subspecialty training + fellowship, you are worth far more than 100k/year. If you are happy making this and don't care about your value, then someone else will be making a fortune off your labor. Medical school and residency is an enormous investment in yourself.

Yes, there are plenty of specialties where you can work 2-3 days a week and make $200k-$300k/year. But you will typically have to put in some sweat equity to get to that point.

You are young, and the transition from college to real world is hard. Everybody goes through it. The days of sleeping to noon and having free afternoons during the week are over. Your priorities will change throughout your 20s and 30s as you marry and maybe start a family. You will hopefully realize the importance of maximizing your retirement investments in your early working years. You will adapt. It will be ok. Lots of people don't have the drive to become a physician and just want the 8-5 M-F $60k entry level job as a 22 year old. That's fine. You'll be making $150k/year with $500k+ in retirement assets by the time most people are finishing residency. It's up to you.

Also, don't become a 9-12 teacher. That is not a good career unless your heart is truly in it. The politics are dumbfounding and your life will be poor and miserable. Find a good $60k entry level job in a big corporation if you don't want med school. If you are not qualified for it now, then get a master's degree in something that will qualify you.

I agree - listen to this person. OP, you sound smart. Right now, you feel tired. This feeling is temporary. Do you really want to look back in ten years and wish you had lived up to your full potential? No hard work ever goes unrewarded. All good things take time and patience. Throw in the towel now, and you will get exactly what you worked for. There is no feeling like being proud of what you've accomplished with your time and skill, of feeling like you actually have something important and unique to offer, of feeling that you've made the most of your time and efforts - there is no feeling like the feeling of success. We spend our 20s accumulating identity capital, and the rest of our lives living off of it. Don't starve yourself of the skill you need to have the life you want.

I understand what it's like to feel burnt out after college. I was too. I hustled hard and made it into a great med school. I leaned back the first few years of medical school, socialized more than I studied, and I ended up meeting my husband that way. Somehow I still made it into ophthalmology. It was not easy to keep my eye on the ball and persevere. I'm grateful to my amazing therapist, husband, and friends. I'm happier than ever now. I love the career I will get to enjoy for the rest of my life. I have a wonderful family and support network. Others have traveled this path too. Find what sustains you - friends, hobbies, faith, mindfulness, exercise, sleep, good habits - whatever they may be - and don't sell yourself short.