Undergrad Decision

[mustang]

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I finally got all the letters from the admission departments of the undergrad schools to which I applied and I have less than a month to decide on the one I will attend. I am pretty much stuck between:
Washington University in St. Louis,
University of Chicago,
and University of Pennsylvania.
All three of these schools are giving me real nice financial packages, so money isn't really the determining factor. Since most of the people on this board have just finished undergrad and are heading of to med school, I would like to hear your thoughts on these schools. I feel that I'm set on the path of majoring in biochem and becoming a doctor/scientist. But I also understand that, being a high school senior, it is still a bit early to be sure of what I will be doing 4 years from now. I have done a bit of research at a lab and although I am certain that I will go on to medicine, I understand that there is always the slight chance that I change my mind one I start.
Because of this, I want school that is not only known for its biomedical departments, but also for other fields of studies. I will be visiting these schools this week and hopefully I help me decide.


Thanks, I appreciate the help

PS.
Just incase anyone wants to comment or give me their opinion on these schools: I also got into UWisc-Madison, U of Florida, and U of Miami.

 

[mustang]

When I go visit the campuses, what should I be looking for and what type of questions should I ask that would not seem too intrusive or critical?

Thanks again

 

[md_student10021]

you've narrowed your choices appropriately. the other schools you mentioned aren't worth thinking about.

I'd go with Penn or UChicago. (not WashU, only because location-wise, it stinks).

For Penn vs. Chicago, visit if you can. Both are great schools, but each has a different feel. Get to know the 2 cities and take it from there. You can't go wrong with either.

good luck.

p.s. you may very well end up spending summers at your college (doing research, extra projects, etc etc.)... Which is closer to home? (if that matters to you)

 

[jwin]

Originally posted by md_student10021
you've narrowed your choices appropriately. the other schools you mentioned aren't worth thinking about.

I'd go with Penn or UChicago. (not WashU, only because location-wise, it stinks).

For Penn vs. Chicago, visit if you can. Both are great schools, but each has a different feel. Get to know the 2 cities and take it from there. You can't go wrong with either.

good luck.

p.s. you may very well end up spending summers at your college (doing research, extra projects, etc etc.)... Which is closer to home? (if that matters to you)

ignore this post. anyone who says to ignore wash u and take uchicago based on location must not be too famaliar with both campuses. i am a wash u senior, and i am from the south side of chicago and worked at uchicago for 2 summers.

hyde park is not for everyone. you are in the heart of the south side of chicago (most people are not a big fan of this half of the city); you are 60 blocks from what is typically called the "loop" or "downtown" so unless you have a car you are VERY far from the young people's nightlife on the north side of the city (lincoln park/lakeview) or from trendy places like bucktown and wicker park. safety is also a concern for many people. i find the campus itself to be pretty safe, but most people are advised not to venture off too far in certain directions. chicago has an obvious cultural opportunities superiority on st. louis, but many students do not take advantage of the city they live in for undergrad anyway. so it is more a matter of what the campus is like.

wash u is on the edge of st. louis in between the city of st. louis and an old "suburb" clayton. these location of these campuses could hardly differ more. wash u is urban to the north/east and suburban to south/west. clayton is one of the wealthiest communities in america, so it is a very different feel than hyde park. it is similar to the location of northwestern (rodgers park--chicago to the south and evanston to the north).

but enough of location. another huge difference is the type of people these campuses attract. uchicago students are stereotyped as "aloof intellectuals." this is of course not true in all cases, but they have earned this reputation for a reason. you are not going to see in scenes from animal house here, so if nightlife is your thing, this is not the place for you. uchicago people are a different breed, if you do not realize this, you are not going to be too happy when you find out 3 months into 1st year. wash u is going to be a more "normal" social college experience if I may use the term. people study hard and play hard is the banal expression.

you are going to work hard at both schools. uchicago has a reputation of working their students, but wash u sciences will also work you. there are many very smart people who do very badly. but also keep in mind that their science classes are run very differently. uchicago has some large classes but you will have smaller classes as you progress. wash u has almost all large lecture classes all the way through senior year despite what admissions tells you.

you need to think about the type of student body that you want and the type of campus that you want to live on.

 

[mustang]

"wash u has almost all large lecture classes all the way through senior year despite what admissions tells you."

I would have never imagined that with a 7:1 sudent/faculty ratio and I believe the freshman class is around 1,500. My greatest concern about Wash U is that only 29% of accepted students enroll. This seems ridiculuosly low. I don't know, what are your opinions on this?

How about Penn? Would anyone thats going there say that their undergrad Biomedical sciences compare to their med school or does all the undergrad reputation go to Wharton school of business?

Thanks again

 

[Goya]

Originally posted by jwin
ignore this post. anyone who says to ignore wash u and take uchicago based on location must not be too famaliar with both campuses. i am a wash u senior, and i am from the south side of chicago and worked at uchicago for 2 summers.

hyde park is not for everyone. you are in the heart of the south side of chicago (most people are not a big fan of this half of the city); you are 60 blocks from what is typically called the "loop" or "downtown" so unless you have a car you are VERY far from the young people's nightlife on the north side of the city (lincoln park/lakeview) or from trendy places like bucktown and wicker park. safety is also a concern for many people. i find the campus itself to be pretty safe, but most people are advised not to venture off too far in certain directions. chicago has an obvious cultural opportunities superiority on st. louis, but many students do not take advantage of the city they live in for undergrad anyway. so it is more a matter of what the campus is like.

wash u is on the edge of st. louis in between the city of st. louis and an old "suburb" clayton. these location of these campuses could hardly differ more. wash u is urban to the north/east and suburban to south/west. clayton is one of the wealthiest communities in america, so it is a very different feel than hyde park. it is similar to the location of northwestern (rodgers park--chicago to the south and evanston to the north).

but enough of location. another huge difference is the type of people these campuses attract. uchicago students are stereotyped as "aloof intellectuals." this is of course not true in all cases, but they have earned this reputation for a reason. you are not going to see in scenes from animal house here, so if nightlife is your thing, this is not the place for you. uchicago people are a different breed, if you do not realize this, you are not going to be too happy when you find out 3 months into 1st year. wash u is going to be a more "normal" social college experience if I may use the term. people study hard and play hard is the banal expression.

you are going to work hard at both schools. uchicago has a reputation of working their students, but wash u sciences will also work you. there are many very smart people who do very badly. but also keep in mind that their science classes are run very differently. uchicago has some large classes but you will have smaller classes as you progress. wash u has almost all large lecture classes all the way through senior year despite what admissions tells you.

you need to think about the type of student body that you want and the type of campus that you want to live on.

Well said. I went to the Uchicago...and you have hit it on the nose pretty much. Bravo.

Hyde Park is part of Chicago..but not part of the Chicago that you see on postcards. It's pretty 'real' and there is lots of crime around. The accessibility to the city is there...and yes..ppl do go downtown and North Side a lot..but it is easy to get caught up in studying at the library all day. Just make a conscious effort to go out...and it'll be fine. I think Chicago is by far a better city than St. Louis...then again I've only visited St. Louis twice so what do I know? You get cruddy weather in both places with Chicago getting our wonderful 'lake effect' snow. yeehaw! look the snow comes in horizontal sheets!

About the aloof intellectuals. I know there are some ppl from UC on this board who may disagree..but ya..pretty true. There are definately a lot more of those around at UC than other schools. It's a...umm..'thinking man's' school. Ppl like to sit at dinner talking about Socrates or Adam Smith or whatever. If that floats your boat..that's great. I, however, never got into that (I rather talk about why the Cubs suck and will always suck). But it is a very intellectual environment. And I think that has a lot of positives as well. Might not be the 'stereotypical' college atmosphere...but it is quite unique.

The thing is...A LOT of ppl aren't happy at Uchicago. Prolly like that at many schools. But...tons of ppl crack under the academic pressure. Doesnt' help that it's dark half the year with all the gothic architecture. But it can be a downer. I think there was a giant 'ivy college' envy for a lot of the kids there. But I hear it's the same at Duke or similar schools.

That being said. I have friends who went to Washu and Upenn and they all seem normal. I think all those schools are great. Just go to the school that you get the best 'feel' for. Talk to the kiddies there. Walk around the campus. Get random opinions from ppl on the quad (the ppl giving tours are all self selected and they are just propaganda spewing marketing machines).

well...UC will definately make you a more 'well rounded' intellectual. The classes they 'make' you take in humanities, social sciences, etc. are pretty good. I hated it at the time (gawd...why do i have to friggin READ?)..but now I realized that it was such an unique experience. The research is awesome at UC. Actually most of the academic stuff about UC is pretty awesome. You won't get as much of the grade inflation as other schools but it's not hardest school in the world. That being said...the academics also contributes to the weakness of the school. That it can easily consume your life if you let it. The thing is...don't let it. College is what you make of it. If you wanna go out and get trashed every night. No one is gonna stop you. But...you make your college experience. Good luck with whatever you choose. Or you can always take my route of making decisions " ok..heads i goto Duke...tails I goto UC"...the rest is history

 

[wolferman]

I have a question: Would attending any of these schools for undergrad help the OP in securing a spot in their medical school class? If so, which? That would be an important factor for me.

 

[Bob Dole]

dude, go to UPenn

'nuff said

 

[DarkChild]

I wouldnt even hesitate. Penn.

 

[mustang]

I got back yesterday from visiting WashU and UPenn. I thought this trip would make my decison easier but it hasn't. I like both schools and they are unique in their own way. The WashU campus is closed in and has the "castle" like buildings. Upenn is very nice too and it seems like a city on it's own. The social life is definetly better at WashU but this could be cause I visited during the weekend. I was at Penn Mon and Tues and they were getting over their spring break party called Fling.
Unfortunately I didn't get to see much of St. Louis or Philly but I don't wanna base my decision on the city.

If there's anyone attending any of these school for undergrad please comment. Give me the good and the bad from your perspective.

And as Wolferman said, do any of these schools help their own get into their med school. Also, what do adcoms from other schools regard with more awe, if any. I hear the WashU has very lil grade inflation, is this true of Penn too?

Students seemed really happy at both schools, although, I did see more students studying at UPenn. But then again, this could be that weekend factor.

Thanks for the posting

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Disclaimer: I went to WashU for undergrad.

I've been to UChicago, UPenn, and WashU on multiple occasions during my undergraduate career. I think all three places are excellent institutions and you could not go wrong academically receiving a great preparation in the sciences for medicine.

I'd like to echo all of the comments made by others about the student "vibes" at each institution: UChicago being more brainy, and WashU & UPenn being more personable.

<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

"do any of these schools help their own get into their med school?"

Usually the answer to this question publically no, but privately, the undergraduate premedical curriculum is designed in part by what the medical school admissions committee at your school wants to see in an applicant's preparation. Of course, volunteering at your undergrad's hospital, shadowing a doc, or doing research will all make you "known quantities" for medical school admission, and put you on a leg up versus a "faceless" application with recommendation letters from people the admissions committee has never heard of before.

<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

"I hear the WashU has very lil grade inflation"

Premed classes everywhere have stuff like 15% A's, 40% B's, and 30% C's, and the same is true at WashU. The means for classes after gen chem / biology / orgo move up to a straight B for the higher level science courses. I think the means for classes in the humanities are straight B's as well.

<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

"My greatest concern about Wash U is that only 29% of accepted students enroll. This seems ridiculuosly low."

That's because it's St. Louis. I used to live in Georgia, and only about 1 out of 10 people knew the place even existed; nearly all said "oh University of Washington or George Washington University", so as you can obviously see by the inundation of PR material you got from WashU, name recognition is a problem outside of the Midwest. This contributes to the low acceptance number.

However, I imagine the same is true for other institutions as well, and the statistics for the entering class don't seem to suffer from low enrollment rate.

<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

"wash u has almost all large lecture classes all the way through senior year despite what admissions tells you."

I don't know what people have told you, but these were my class sizes for my junior and senior years [majoring in Biochemistry, minor in Music]

<15: 9
15-30: 1
30-50: 4
>50: 5

Large courses were easy courses for distribution requirements.

<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

If you want to do something outside the sciences, look at each schools qualilty of department before choosing. For example, if you're interested in economics, you can't go to anyplace better than Chicago [well, okay Harvard].

The one gripe I had about WashU's biomedical research is that the medical school is on a different campus a few miles down Forest Park Parkway, and I'd rather have enjoyed the convienience of walking to lab rather than riding the shuttle over. Chicago you won't have any problems with that [that Interdisciplinary Research Building is beautiful], and I think Penn is the same, although you might have to walk farther.

Hope this helps.

Yours,