Undergrad Difficulty/Prestige

[Med Addict]

Lately I've been thinking about the prestige and the difficulty of an undergrad institution, and how it works out for the pre-med. In your opinion, is it more advantageous to attend a less prestigious university to have easier classes so that you could get a higher GPA, and have more time for extra-curriculars and MCAT studying than if a person was to attend a difficult university with high prestige. Prestige isn't quantified like the MCAT, so its difficult to access its role in addmissions.

One could argue that a harder university would make you work harder, but what if it was so difficult that it messed up your GPA to the point where Med-Schools won't even consider your candidacy? And those general ed breadth courses don't really help with the MCATs. Wouldn't it be worth it to just attend a less prestigious university? Is it unfair for those UGrads who have it hard?

One of the reasons I choose my university over UC Berekeley was cause if I had attended CAL, my GPA would have sucked... big time. But I'm acing my courses at UCR and I have time to devote to extra-curriculars.

Curious about your $0.02.

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[Centinel]

We can argue electronically until our fingers bleed, but because nobody can have a basis for comparison, this argument is never going to bear real fruit.

 

[Med Addict]

nobody can have a basis for comparison, this argument is never going to bear real fruit.

true.

 

[OctoDoc]

You should think of the big picture. That is not what is the best university to get me into medical school, but which university will give me the best education. If you have a good education, you will be a better person, and it will show not only in your life, but on your applications. Corny, I know.

 

[happydays]

It's best to get a good GPA at a more competitive university.

 

[peterpansy]

Personally, I had a choice between two schools, both good, but one that had, as you put it, more prestige and was considered harder. I picked the latter (a decision that had little to do with getting into med. school four years down the line). While I've never attended a state school, or such, as a full time student, I took a class in high school at one. Despite its good reputation among state schools, the class I took (calc II) bored me to death, I aced it easily, and even tutored a college senior who was taking it with me. That pretty much convinced me that if I went to an "easy" college, I would loose all motivation, be bored all the time, and spend my days drinking instead of studying. I was right, as when I got to the "prestigious" university as a freshman, I couldn't even place out of Calc I by their standards. Another fact that convinces me that I made the right choice is that the people I went to high school with who ended up in the school I passed over, are doing pretty well without too much effort, whereas I have to work pretty hard for my grades. Back in high school they were the ones working hard while I slept through at least half of all my classes and never studied, and still got better grades. This for me is evidence enough that the curriculum at my university is more rigorous (at least in my major). Is that going to help me when applying to med schools? I don't know. But I'm the kind of person who thrives on challenges and stress, so this kind of education is the best for me. I also felt much better prepared for the MCAT, if that's your concern. You might also want to consider the kinds of research opportunities a more "prestigious" university would expose you to. Every student I know at my school who wants a job in research, has a job in research (and not just as a lab monkey). That's more school-specific, though, than a generalization over how "prestigious" schools are different from others. Anyway, hope this helps you. It's just my own experience, I'm not trying to say that's always the case. I don't know how medical schools consider the name of the undergrad institution when giving out acceptances, although personally I think it needs to play a significant role, at least in comparing GPA (I know mine would be a lot higher if I went to a state school than it is now, no matter what anyone else on here wants to say about not having a basis for comparisson). Good luck with the process.

 

[happydays]

where did u go?

see profile.

 

[pan2way]

This is the beauty of choice. Just goes to show you...how different paths can still lead to the same destination. I was confronted by a very similar decision in 2000, and decided to chose the relatively unknown school...NO student had ever matriculated to a medical school from there. In the end, it really does come down to the type of person you are. Either way you go..there are advantages and there are disadvantages.
In my mind, you are just creating a product, becuase an interview is pretty much just an info-mercial. Relatively (Ok A lot) easier classes gave me a chance to double major in math and Biology, and a minor in Chemistry. And even though i was taking 19+ hours a semester...laxed currilum allowed me to spread my time all over several extracurricular activities (Cross country/Track, cycling, Student Govt., etc..)
Unfortunately, my MCAT scores were super disappointing (22) my first go around. So i had to work extra hard on my MCAT to improve (29). I have no idea how four years of laxed studies compare to 2 months of intense MCAT preparation...but i am sure the effort probably equals out in the end.
I would like to add...it may have been easier to get into med school from a better known undergrad school, but i am afraid i may have become all books, vs...a more rounded individual. (which probably played a major role in my acceptance)

I think i came up with a pretty good analogy.

A mediocre golfer can work super hard and get enough money to pay for a Callaway FT-3 Driver (Prestigous Golf producer)
or go with a off brand driver that he already has the money for.

He may get 20 more yards of the tee with the Callaway, but price for the extra distance has been payed in monetary units.
Where as to get the same extra distance from the off brand driver..more hard work has to be spent on the range for practice.
And just like anything else in life....you just have to figure out what works best for you...working the extra hours to pay for the prestige for the end result of extra distance. ( work harder at a big name school to get into school.)
or work harder on the range later ( work harder on the application process.)

Sorry i wrote a book...I usually dont' have much to say, but this is a really insightful thread.

 

[Saluki]

Personally, I had a choice between two schools, both good, but one that had, as you put it, more prestige and was considered harder. I picked the latter (a decision that had little to do with getting into med. school four years down the line). While I've never attended a state school, or such, as a full time student, I took a class in high school at one. Despite its good reputation among state schools, the class I took (calc II) bored me to death, I aced it easily, and even tutored a college senior who was taking it with me. That pretty much convinced me that if I went to an "easy" college, I would loose all motivation, be bored all the time, and spend my days drinking instead of studying. I was right, as when I got to the "prestigious" university as a freshman, I couldn't even place out of Calc I by their standards. Another fact that convinces me that I made the right choice is that the people I went to high school with who ended up in the school I passed over, are doing pretty well without too much effort, whereas I have to work pretty hard for my grades. Back in high school they were the ones working hard while I slept through at least half of all my classes and never studied, and still got better grades. This for me is evidence enough that the curriculum at my university is more rigorous (at least in my major). Is that going to help me when applying to med schools? I don't know. But I'm the kind of person who thrives on challenges and stress, so this kind of education is the best for me. I also felt much better prepared for the MCAT, if that's your concern. You might also want to consider the kinds of research opportunities a more "prestigious" university would expose you to. Every student I know at my school who wants a job in research, has a job in research (and not just as a lab monkey). That's more school-specific, though, than a generalization over how "prestigious" schools are different from others. Anyway, hope this helps you. It's just my own experience, I'm not trying to say that's always the case. I don't know how medical schools consider the name of the undergrad institution when giving out acceptances, although personally I think it needs to play a significant role, at least in comparing GPA (I know mine would be a lot higher if I went to a state school than it is now, no matter what anyone else on here wants to say about not having a basis for comparisson). Good luck with the process.

I worked hard at my state university, so I must just be dumb

 

[peterpansy]

I worked hard at my state university, so I must just be dumb

Didn't say that at all. Just sharing my own experience. Working hard at any school can only be a positive thing, IMO.

 

[Saluki]

Didn't say that at all. Just sharing my own experience. Working hard at any school can only be a positive thing, IMO.

But that's what you're implying. When you say that state undergrads are easier than private schools or at least the prestigious private schools, you're saying that the grades received at the state school are worth less and were more easily earned. I find it astonishing how readily people are to assume that state schools in general are easier based on one or two courses. Have you taken any honors courses at the main campus of a state school? Did you take the courses you did regular academic year? I think you'll find that some incredibly smart people on this board are applying from state schools...

BTW- I agree that working hard is always a good thing.

 

[Centinel]

This smoldering thread looks like it's going to burst into flames any moment now. The purpose of my first post was to hopefully try to avoid this sort of 'state school vs. Ivy' fight.

Med schools care about you, not your school. Period. People will argue until they are blue in the face that going to a prestigious school actually helps you get into a good med school, but there is just not enough comparative data to let you make that comparative analysis. Go with your instincts, with finances, or with a coin toss. Whatever you do, work hard in college and take advantage of the opportunities afforded you.

 

[Mr. Tee]

Does it matter where you go to school? Sure, everything matters, but does it really matter? I don't think so. My undergrad is ranked #58 in USNews (now some people will think this list is bunk, but be realistic, 58 means something) but that didn't prevent previous alums from getting into Harvard, Hopkins, Duke, Yale, Michigan, Columbia, Cornell, etc. for medical school. It's YOU that counts.

 

[peterpansy]

But that's what you're implying. When you say that state undergrads are easier than private schools or at least the prestigious private schools, you're saying that the grades received at the state school are worth less and were more easily earned. I find it astonishing how readily people are to assume that state schools in general are easier based on one or two courses. Have you taken any honors courses at the main campus of a state school? Did you take the courses you did regular academic year? I think you'll find that some incredibly smart people on this board are applying from state schools...

BTW- I agree that working hard is always a good thing.

I didn't imply anything. I just said I knew of one state school that had easier classes in my major than the school I currently attend, which is why I am happy with my personal choice. Didn't say that all (or even most) state schools were easier, or that people attneding a state school aren't as smart or as qualified. I was very careful to word my post so that it would come across as a specific, one person's experience with a specific school, which is what I meant. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. And like I said before I have no idea how the choice of an undergrad school affects med school admission.

 

[OhtheSilliness]

I attended a very prestigious University where the pre-med courses pretty much kicked my ass. I barely passed a few of my classes and had to retake one. I ended up with around a 2.7 after my first two years. I was able to take upper div science classes and bring my GPA up to a 3.1... which well still sucks. I took the MCAT and without have much time to study (I was taking summer classes, working, and volunteering up till the day BEFORE the class), I ended up with a 33. So pretty much the good and bad of attending the harder school: My gpa suffered a great deal... but I learned a lot and was fairly prepared for the MCAT. The GPA is a definite weakness in my application which has resulted in a number of schools inquiring about why my GPA does not reflect my MCAT score. If I do not get in this year, I plan on doing a second bac at my state school to bring up my GPA.

 

[OrganLibrarian]

I did not attend a prestigious undergrad. Most people have not heard of it unless they are from the Midwest. I was accepted to UMich, which is "top 10" in some circles (mine, which obviously is the most important circle of them all) and blah blah blah blah blah.

 

[don juan]

I think my GPA would have been the same regardless of where I went to school. Most people generally play to the level of their competition.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you have a good education, you will be a better person, and it will show not only in your life, but on your applications.

Wasn't the unibomber a Harvard grad? Didn't one of the Menendez brothers attend Princeton? A good education doesn't make a good person, I'm afraid.

 

[Ndcyciv]

In my opinion, I do believe that its not necessary where you went for undergrad, but more of what you studied. Most med schools need to have a wide variety of backrounds, including university choices and degree choices.
I on the other hand feel extremely screwed because I have well passed a bachelor degree, but seem to have the hardest time proving myself on the MCAT. In June, I will have my Doctor of Pharmacy, but yet I get put to a higher standard than an undergraduate student.

 

[MarzMD]

If you think you will get below a 3.3-3.4 at a prestigous university, then the experience(measured by the ultimate goal of getting into med school, not some intellectual advancement crap) will not have been worth it. Yes, if you have a 3.5 and above at a prestigous university you are in very good shape. But if you think you can only get a 3.5+ at a lower tier, than a lower tier school is better for you.


That being said, med schools will forgive a lower GPA at a top tier school, so it is basically a trade-off. However, I think you can get into more/higher ranked schools with a 3.8/29 from a lower tier school than a 3.1/29 from a more prestigous one.

 

[DrBowtie]

It's all been done before..................
If you go to a prestige school, you fight for it.
If you go to a state school, you fight for it.

Go to college confidential and argue this junk.

 

[OctoDoc]

Wasn't the unibomber a Harvard grad? Didn't one of the Menendez brothers attend Princeton? A good education doesn't make a good person, I'm afraid.

The Unibomber was a social reformist. And Princeton sucks, that's the explanation for Menendez (i.e. not a good education). (I'm only kidding. If you want to throw something at me, throw money!)

Of course I was speaking in general. There are always exceptions. And I find it curious that you equate good education with Harvard and Princeton. Why not relatively unknown schools? I think that a school that is centered on education rather than research, and a small one at that, provides for better student-faculty relationships (no jokes, please) and professors that are solely devoted to the students' education, and so a better learning environment.

There are exceptions, of course. That is to say that you can also get a good education at an Ivy League school or a research-oriented school, and a crappy one at a teaching-oriented school.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

It all breaks down to whether you are interested in telling people you went to a prestigious university or not. I have friends who graduated from Yale and Duke (although not premeds) and they've said it only came up once.

In the end, people from both sides of the spectrum get into medical school.

 

[):(]

Is there no prestige at all in attending a public school: UC's, Umich, Uvirginia, UW (my school )?

 

[victor14]

to the OP

i also attend ucr. im in my 2nd year. honestly speaking, ucr is no where close to ucla, ucb, ucsd,... but its a uc non the less. from what i have heard, uc's have a very nice reputation across the states. just my .02 cents

 

[Em1]

This is why the MCAT exists- to standardize the level of preparation across the board.

 

[browniegirl86]

Anybody else tired of this debate?