Undergrad School a BIG Factor at Ivies?

[Monster013]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I have heard from all medical schools now, and I am a little curious about the results. First, I'd just like to preface that I am extremely thankful that I was accepted to the great schools that took me. I am just a little surprised about the results. I went into the process very confident, because my record is objectively pretty good. See my mdapplicants profile here:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=3838

Alright, well here is the list of results--

Acceptances:
UMich (20k Scholarship)
Duke
Wash U (invited for Scholarship Interview)
Emory

Rejection:
Harvard

Waitlist:
Cornell
Columbia
UPenn
Yale

Alright...here's my issue. Notice the list of rejections/waitlists ... Every single one is Ivy League.

Notice the list of acceptances ... Non-ivy league, including top 10.

I was thrown aback at my results for Yale. I had the best interviews of all there. in fact, my second interviewer gave me a HUG. And, by the way, the only "bad" interview I had was at Cornell.

Now, I am not saying this to brag, so please don't flame me. I am very thankful for my acceptances. I am just trying to make the point that I think your undergrad insititution is a SIGNIFICANT factor in admission into Ivy League medical school. I went to the State University of New York at Stony Brook, which, while not a bad school, has a relatively unknown name.

I'm just a little thrown aback by the results, and wanted to hear what others thought/experiences regarding this issue.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I'm just a little thrown aback by the results, and wanted to here what others thought/experiences regarding this issue.

I would tell you how I feel, but since you made frequent requests not to flame, I'll be quiet.

 

[jebus]

It could be something else... Your performance at those interviews suffered because you were subconsciously hung up on the Ivy label? (No offense, but it seems like you're a little hung up on it now.)
Frankly, I would kill to have your acceptances. After I kill you, I could eat your brain and absorb your knowledge.
It looks like you have a bright future ahead of you. Why focus on these inconsequential setbacks?

 

[MediMama23]

Yes, it does.

At least, I think this is what you want to hear, so that is what I'll tell you. Becuase I don't think you're ready for the truth.

 

[eastsidaz]

That was probably a factor, but screw them. If your MCAT scores don't make your case, there's nothing you can do. You're better off saving all that money and taking one of those fat scholarship offers anyway. It's not like you've been relegated to going to no-name schools--Duke and WashU are quite solid, methinks.

 

[NoSoupforYou13]

There definitely is Ivy inbreeding, especially if you went to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. Look at any list of ugrad colleges from those schools. I am not sure why people find it suprising.

 

[jjmack]

There definitely is Ivy inbreeding, especially if you went to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. Look at any list of ugrad colleges from those schools. I am not sure why people find it suprising.

because people like to think life is fair. The sooner people realize it's all about who you know (where you go college plays a large part) more often than how good you are they won't always be so dissapointed.

 

[Kimka83]

I don't really think that undergrad school is a big factor. I went to a state school and was accepted at several ivy league medical schools. I think they consider the whole package, and having a ivy undergrad certainly helps, but being a state school student certainly doesn't eliminate your chances.

 

[eastsidaz]

I don't really think that undergrad school is a big factor. I went to a state school and was accepted at several ivy league medical schools. I think they consider the whole package, and having a ivy undergrad certainly helps, but being a state school student certainly doesn't eliminate your chances.

Yeah, but you went to UNC, which is one of the very best publics in the US. Plus, looking at your mdapps profile, you're the supreme goddess of premeds.

 

[Rafa]

Yes, it does.

At least, I think this is what you want to hear, so that is what I'll tell you. Becuase I don't think you're ready for the truth.

👍

 

[GoodEats]

I'd agree: there is some resistance to Ivy outsiders joining the Ivy club. I know at my two interviews at Yale, both of them asked me in a certain tone, "so why did you choose THAT school? Did you look at going anywhere else?" as if I should be coming from a better institution. Definitely the only place out of all of my interviews where they asked me that.

 

[Monster013]

Yes, it does.

At least, I think this is what you want to hear, so that is what I'll tell you. Becuase I don't think you're ready for the truth.

Yeah, you have a point. My post does seem like I am just requesting affirmation. But I was really hoping to see if someone else did NOT have the same experienceas me, so I might be able to disprove my theory.

Yes it's a possibility I was not accepted for other reasons, and no, I was not hung up on the idea of ivy league. Honestly, I looked up Ivy League on Wikipedia to make sure all of those schools I mentioned were, in fact, Ivies. I didn't even consider the ivy concept when i was picking schools...just picked out the best schools that I would like to attend.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

well, i'm happy the op shared this with us. *assuming* the ps was fine and no red flags elsewhere, i think this is decent evidence of bias. it looks to me like the op got an unfortunate outcome relative to how hard it looks like he worked and his ability. he deserved an ivy, if that's what he wanted, and probably got screwed on that one by his school's name. not cool

 

[Wickedgood]

I am seriously considering applying to at least 1 of the ivys when that time rolls around. I looked at my school's matriculation rate for the past 10 years or so, and was saddened to find that only 2 students have gone there. Maybe the state's med school just has a better financial aid package. Or maybe there were only 2 people accepted out of all of those classes.

I'm going into this with the mindset that I'll have to kick some major butt in order to reach my goals, and that the odds are against me.

 

[Rafa]

well, i'm happy the op shared this with us. *assuming* the ps was fine and no red flags elsewhere, i think this is decent evidence of bias. it looks to me like the op got an unfortunate outcome relative to how hard it looks like he worked and his ability. he deserved an ivy, if that's what he wanted, and probably got screwed on that one by his school's name. not cool

1.) We're using one situation and extrapolating a rather damning generality from it.

2.) We didn't read his PS, his LORs, or his secondary applications.

3.) We have no knowledge (unfiltered) of how said applicant interviewed at the Ivies.

4.) No one "deserves" to get into an Ivy (or any top 10 school, for that matter).

5.) We really don't know if it was his school's name that kept him out, but an SDN-wide resentment at "those uppity Ivies" makes us percieve a reality of our own design. We're simply seeing what we want to see. And that's pretty gosh darned biased in itself. 👎

6.) The OP seems to have a chip on his shoulder regarding his deserved acceptances at the schools where he was waitlisted. Perhaps such a streak of entitlement ("I *deserve* to get in wherever I apply) seeped into a few secondaries and interviews. A little humility goes a long way, and when an applicant describes himself as "red flagless"... 🙄

 

[Monster013]

well, i'm happy the op shared this with us. *assuming* the ps was fine and no red flags elsewhere, i think this is decent evidence of bias. it looks to me like the op got an unfortunate outcome relative to how hard it looks like he worked and his ability. he deserved an ivy, if that's what he wanted, and probably got screwed on that one by his school's name. not cool

d

 

[Monster013]

well, i'm happy the op shared this with us. *assuming* the ps was fine and no red flags elsewhere, i think this is decent evidence of bias. it looks to me like the op got an unfortunate outcome relative to how hard it looks like he worked and his ability. he deserved an ivy, if that's what he wanted, and probably got screwed on that one by his school's name. not cool

Hey thanks for the agreement.

Also, the PS did help me succeed at those schools i got accepted to, and unless I inadvertantly mentioned something anti-Ivy (which I didn't), i don't think it would be a factor.

Also, I am red flagless.

 

[Monster013]

1.) We're using one situation and extrapolating a rather damning generality from it.

2.) We didn't read his PS, his LORs, or his secondary applications.

3.) We have no knowledge (unfiltered) of how said applicant interviewed at the Ivies.

4.) No one "deserves" to get into an Ivy (or any top 10 school, for that matter).

5.) We really don't know if it was his school's name that kept him out, but an SDN-wide resentment at "those uppity Ivies" makes us percieve a reality of our own design. We're simply seeing what we want to see. And that's pretty gosh darned biased in itself. 👎

I think the only real valid variable to consider is my interviews at the Ivies, only because I received positive outcomes from non-Ivies. Perhaps I have a natural tendency to suck at Ivy interviews. Maybe this is true, although I didn't even really know which ones were Ivies when I went there. Anyway, in my opinion, I don't think it was the interview.

And no, I don't think anyone "deserves" to get in anywhere. If i were rejected everywhere, I wouldn't be suspicious, so I am just trying to understand the results.

 

[qr321]

Just look at the number of acceptances at an Ivy Medical School and the number of them coming from Ivy undergrads. I've heard of quotas before for Ivy league undergrads going to medical school. There is definitely something to it.

 

[PHECT]

You asked for a case that went against yours? I'm it. I'm going to McGill and am next year headed to Columbia P&S.

Whereas undergraduate institution may play a role, as a candidate, you are not reduced to a person coming from a given school. You have a multifaceted application with many many characteristics- some subjective and some objective. Maybe your interview wasn't as good as you thought. Maybe your extracurriculars weren't what they wanted to see.

Though you may want to blame it on the school that you are coming from, that would be overly reductionist and wouldn't give credo to the other parts of your application.

 

[riceman04]

I have heard from all medical schools now, and I am a little curious about the results. First, I'd just like to preface that I am extremely thankful that I was accepted to the great schools that took me. I am just a little surprised about the results. I went into the process very confident, because my record is objectively pretty good. See my mdapplicants profile here:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=3838

Alright, well here is the list of results--

Acceptances:
UMich (20k Scholarship)
Duke
Wash U (invited for Scholarship Interview)
Emory

Rejection:
Harvard

Waitlist:
Cornell
Columbia
UPenn
Yale

Alright...here's my issue. Notice the list of rejections/waitlists ... Every single one is Ivy League.

Notice the list of acceptances ... Non-ivy league, including top 10.

I was thrown aback at my results for Yale. I had the best interviews of all there. in fact, my second interviewer gave me a HUG. And, by the way, the only "bad" interview I had was at Cornell.

Now, I am not saying this to brag, so please don't flame me. I am very thanksful for my acceptances. I am just trying to make the point that I think your undergrad insititution is a SIGNIFICANT factor in admission into Ivy League medical school. I went to the State University of New York at Stony Brook, which, while not a bad school, has a relatively unknown name.

I'm just a little thrown aback by the results, and wanted to hear what others thought/experiences regarding this issue.

you (like so many people on here) are jumping to conclusions.

 

[Rafa]

Look at any list of ugrad colleges from those schools...

I'd be curious if someone could post some of these stats...

Just look at the number of acceptances at an Ivy Medical School and the number of them coming from Ivy undergrads...

Will the next person who uses this phrase attach a link in strong support his or her argument? Because otherwise, this is just sounding a lot like point #5 above. Lots of people logging on just to "bash the Ivies" with their "elitism" and "old boys club" and (insert hackneyed attack here) etc.

 

[eastsidaz]

I think the real lesson to be learned is that there probably isn't necessarily any one thing that "keeps you out". It's more a matter of what gets you in. The Ivies, and most other top schools, reject lots of people with stats like his. The process, as I would think most of us have learned by now, is completely random. Unless you're Kimka, there are no sure things.

That said, it seems like his school name was obviously a factor. I don't know why so many people on SDN choose to believe it means nothing. What would be the point of the multi-million dollar industry that has developed around college admissions and college rankings if it, in the end, meant nothing to anyone important? Look at past presidents, SC justices, and Fortune 500 CEOs and tell me there's no preference in the halls of power (or halls of elite medical training) for elite school names. It's a self-perpetuating power structure that isn't going anywhere, so we all may as well get used to it.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

the op is humble enough. he doesn't deserve such backlash, jealous or otherwise. if i were in his situation (i'm not--when i apply, i won't be suprised by the two or so ivy rejections i ask for) i would simply be perplexed as well. i would want to know what was going on, and i would think it might be useful for others to know my story.

the point about extrapolating from one case is certainly valid. still, this is a telling case because the op has a nice control group of several non-ivy but well-regarded "top ten" schools to which he *did* get acceptances and even scholarship money. several acceptances at "higher-ranked" non-ivies but no acceptances from even "lower-ranked" ivies? as the "ivy-ness" variable changed, so did the op's fortunes. that sucks.

 

[Will Ferrell]

I'd be curious if someone could post some of these stats...

Johns Hopkins isn't technically ivy league, but they seem open to students from all undergrads. Check out page 15:

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/students/academics/catalog05/MCATstudents.pdf

 

[MediMama23]

Hey thanks for the agreement.

Also, the PS did help me succeed at those schools i got accepted to, and unless I inadvertantly mentioned something anti-Ivy (which I didn't), i don't think it would be a factor.

Also, I am red flagless.

How do you know that you didn't mention something anti-Ivy if you didn't know which ones were Ivies to begin with?

I'm glad you've come to terms with the fact that you are only seeking affirmation to avoid the realization that you were not what those schools were looking for at the time. I've seen people from schools as unknown as yours get in with less. I hardly think that when it came time for every last one of those committees to get together, they looked at your app and said, "He's fabulous, he's everything we want, but his school is a no name. Stony WHAT? Stony Nook and Cranny? Aww, just give him the boot." But maybe it IS an Ivy League thing, in that they'd like to see people not advertise their involvement with test prep companies, because then it leads them to believe that you yourself used one, and that you didn't gain those scores independently. Maybe that's where the "snobbery" of the Ivies comes in; they want to think their future medical students aren't so "weak" as to need to have any affiliation with the likes of Kaplan or Princeton Review.

You didn't even apply to Brown or Dartmouth. You might have gotten in. At the end of the day, what's done is done, you're into some fabulous medical schools, and given that you survive med school, M.D. will be plastered onto your white coat. Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Monster013]

Johns Hopkins isn't technically ivy league, but they seem open to students from all undergrads. Check out page 15:

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/students/academics/catalog05/MCATstudents.pdf

Hey, I never heard a word from Johns Hopkins after i sent my secondary. I guess that either means I got rejected or that they never received my secondary or fee or letters of rec or something. I never really pushed the issue, cause i wasn't interested in Baltimore after i thought about it, anyway, so I didn't mind. That's why I didn't add it to the list.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

How do you know that you didn't mention something anti-Ivy if you didn't know which ones were Ivies to begin with?

if he went into interviews without know which schools were ivy, then this is even *more* evidence in favor of his interviews not being biased by the ivy nature of the school. it would be like "blinding" in an experiment.

 

[MediMama23]

I think the real lesson to be learned is that there probably isn't necessarily any one thing that "keeps you out". It's more a matter of what gets you in. The Ivies, and most other top schools, reject lots of people with stats like his. The process, as I would think most of us have learned by now, is completely random. Unless you're Kimka, there are no sure things.

That said, it seems like his school name was obviously a factor. I don't know why so many people on SDN choose to believe it means nothing. What would be the point of the multi-million dollar industry that has developed around college admissions and college rankings if it, in the end, meant nothing to anyone important? Look at past presidents, SC justices, and Fortune 500 CEOs and tell me there's no preference in the halls of power (or halls of elite medical training) for elite school names. It's a self-perpetuating power structure that isn't going anywhere, so we all may as well get used to it.

I wouldn't be so quick to believe it means nothing if there weren't students from "no-names" getting in. They get in. Those who go to schools that aren't Ivies get in. Those who go to Ivies get rejected, too. So now what?

 

[MediMama23]

if he went into interviews without know which schools were ivy, then this is even *more* evidence in favor of his interviews not being biased by the ivy nature of the school. it would be like "blinding" in an experiment.

He "may not" have known which ones were Ivies, but he knew that Ivies existed. I hardly believe that anyone in the States wouldn't know that Harvard was an Ivy League. Sorry. It'll be my downfall, but I just refuse to accept that.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

I wouldn't be so quick to believe it means nothing if there weren't students from "no-names" getting in. They get in. Those who go to schools that aren't Ivies get in. Those who go to Ivies get rejected, too. So now what?

yes, any of us can be president of the united states, too. we're talking about probabilities here, not what *can* happen.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

He "may not" have known which ones were Ivies, but he knew that Ivies existed. I hardly believe that anyone in the States wouldn't know that Harvard was an Ivy League. Sorry. It'll be my downfall, but I just refuse to accept that.

i agree that he must have known of some ivies.

 

[Rafa]

It isn't scientific, but here are the schools represented at HMS on MDapp from the past two years:

Interviewed, Accepted (~MCAT 36.4, ~GPA 3.82):
03319 Amherst College, 36 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2005
03130 Auburn University, 39 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
02465 Bates College, 39 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, applied 2005
03222 Bates College, 36 MCAT, 3.58 GPA, applied 2005
02357 Columbia University, 38 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2005
02084 Columbia University, 34 MCAT, 3.91 GPA, applied 2005
03837 Cornell, 33 MCAT, 3.69 GPA, applied 2005
02731 Cornell Unviersity, 38 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2005
03326 Duke, 40 MCAT, 3.98 GPA, applied 2005
03343 Duke, 35 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2005
03514 Duke University, 38 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
03358 Emory University, 33 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2005
04850 Harvard, 40 MCAT, 3.91 GPA, applied 2006
03980 Harvard, 39 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2006
02390 Harvard, 37 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2005
04672 Harvard College, 39 MCAT, 3.89 GPA, applied 2006
02214 Harvard University, 34 MCAT, 3.78 GPA, applied 2005
02574 Harvard University, 39 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2005
04558 Harvard University, 37 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2005
03449 Johns Hopkins, 40 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
03239 Johns Hopkins, 38 MCAT, 3.91 GPA, applied 2005
02191 Johns Hopkins University, 37 MCAT, 3.92 GPA, applied 2005
03066 McGill University, 38 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2005
04118 Michigan State University, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
02792 MIT, 35 MCAT, 3.63 GPA, applied 2005
03203 Princeton University, 38 MCAT, 3.51 GPA, applied 2005
03196 Princeton University, 35 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2005
05217 Relatively small school in NC, 28 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
02347 Rice University, 37 MCAT, 3.83 GPA, applied 2005
03938 Stanford University, 31 MCAT, 3.85 GPA, applied 2006
04667 UC - Santa Barbara, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
02199 UC San Diego, 33 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2005
03882 UC San Diego, 27 MCAT, 3.73 GPA, applied 2006
03176 UC San Diego, 38 MCAT, 3.98 GPA, applied 2005
03539 UCLA, 29 MCAT, 3.45 GPA, applied 2005
05244 UCLA, 36 MCAT, 3.96 GPA, applied 2006
04327 University of Alabama, 38 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
03259 University of California, San Diego, 42 MCAT, 2.78 GPA, applied 2005
04496 University of Colorado, 34 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2006
04019 University of North Carolina at Chapel H, 41 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
03336 University of Pennsylvania, 38 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2005
02603 Vassar College, 33 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2005
03592 Wesleyan University, 34 MCAT, 3.74 GPA, applied 2006
04628 Yale University, 37 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
04292 Yale University, 36 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2006

Yup, there are Ivies there. But there are also a lot of other schools, too. For comparision, here's the shortlist at Duke:

Interviewed, Accepted (~MCAT 37.2, ~GPA 3.83):
03319 Amherst College, 36 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2005
03003 Baylor University, 36 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
04694 California State University, Los Angeles, 37 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2006
04235 College of William and Mary, 37 MCAT, 3.98 GPA, applied 2006
02907 Columbia University-Columbia College, 30 MCAT, 3.71 GPA, applied 2005
02662 Cornell, 35 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2005
02269 Cornell University, 39 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2005
04608 CWRU, 30 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
04053 Dartmouth College, 41 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2006
03611 Davidson College, 36 MCAT, 3.84 GPA, applied 2006
03343 Duke, 35 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2005
04063 Duke, 37 MCAT, 3.87 GPA, applied 2005
03326 Duke, 40 MCAT, 3.98 GPA, applied 2005
03646 Duke University, 39 MCAT, 3.47 GPA, applied 2006
03514 Duke University, 38 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
03434 Duke University, 33 MCAT, 3.79 GPA, applied 2005
03358 Emory University, 33 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2005
03240 Emory University, 40 MCAT, 3.89 GPA, applied 2005
02926 Georgia Tech, 36 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2005
04223 Georgia Tech, 39 MCAT, 3.08 GPA, applied 2006
03138 Harvard, 38 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2005
04028 Harvard, 41 MCAT, 3.24 GPA, applied 2006
04558 Harvard University, 37 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2005
02574 Harvard University, 39 MCAT, 3.80 GPA, applied 2005
03449 Johns Hopkins, 40 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
02065 Johns Hopkins University, 38 MCAT, 3.94 GPA, applied 2005
04029 Johns Hopkins University, 32 MCAT, 3.86 GPA, applied 2006
03537 Mercer University, 39 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
04118 Michigan State University, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
02726 Oklahoma State University, 34 MCAT, 3.81 GPA, applied 2005
02271 Princeton University, 39 MCAT, 3.60 GPA, applied 2005
02623 Rice University, 37 MCAT, 3.57 GPA, applied 2005
03051 Rice University, 35 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
03074 Stanford University, 35 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2005
03838 Stony Brook University, 40 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2006
02004 SUNY Binghamton, 35 MCAT, 3.90 GPA, applied 2005
04667 UC - Santa Barbara, 40 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
05149 UNC, 38 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
03371 UNC-Chapel Hill, 38 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, applied 2005
04327 University of Alabama, 38 MCAT, 3.99 GPA, applied 2006
05199 University of Arizona, 32 MCAT, 3.75 GPA, applied 2006
04393 University of Dayton, 38 MCAT, 3.97 GPA, applied 2006
04019 University of North Carolina at Chapel H, 41 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
03336 University of Pennsylvania, 38 MCAT, 3.82 GPA, applied 2005
02788 University of Rochester, 37 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2005
03225 University of San Diego, 39 MCAT, 3.92 GPA, applied 2005
04321 University of Southern California, 41 MCAT, 3.74 GPA, applied 2006
03330 University of Tennessee, 36 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2005
05092 University of Tennessee--Knoxville, 36 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
03973 University of Texas at Austin, 40 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, applied 2006
04758 University of Wisconsin-Madison, 39 MCAT, 3.98 GPA, applied 2006
02910 UPenn, 37 MCAT, 3.95 GPA, applied 2005
03281 Washington University in St. Louis, 35 MCAT, 3.70 GPA, applied 2005
03230 Wellesley College, 36 MCAT, 3.89 GPA, applied 2005
03142 Yale, 39 MCAT, 3.93 GPA, applied 2005
04628 Yale University, 37 MCAT, 3.88 GPA, applied 2006
03426 Yale University, 38 MCAT, 3.92 GPA, applied 2006
04292 Yale University, 36 MCAT, 3.77 GPA, applied 2006

 

[NonTradMed]

I don't know about 'Ivy league inbreeding' because I'm pretty sure schools like Johns Hopkins, Stanford, washU etc who have large, strong premed programs send at least a few kids to ivy league med schools every year.

I'm pretty sure school name plays a role at the top ten med schools, since they will be comparing students with > 3.9 and 35+ MCATs from all over the country and school name may help push the Yalies over the State U students but it could just be that your school don't have that reputation for a elite premed program that schools like Johns Hopkins may have...hence your 3.9+ may not be 'good enough' when compared to a 3.9 from a more well known school.

But anyway, your acceptances are nothing to sneeze at, they will all make great doctors. Congrats!

 

[GoodEats]

But the way I was thinking about it wasn't that the Ivy tag is an automatic admittance, or that the lack of the Ivy in your resume is an automatic rejection, but rather that it's a slight bump upwards or downwards on your app. In the op's case, it seem like it might have had a more than slight effect, or maybe it was just the crapshoot of the top tier happening to fall out a certain way like it does in Vegas sometimes.

 

[MediMama23]

yes, any of us can be president of the united states, too. we're talking about probabilities here, not what *can* happen.

I'm not talking about what *can* happen, I'm talking about what *has* happened. The OP wants to know that he's perfect and they're wrong and biased against his school, but at the end of the day, despite his perfection, HE didn't make the grade. Not his school...him.

I'm not trying to be harsh, OP, I just want you to enjoy what you have, what many people on these forums and around the US wish they had. If you REALLY REALLY DESPERATELY want to know what went wrong, call these schools up. Ask them why they didn't give you an outright acceptance. And then you'll have your answer.

 

[Rafa]

Oh, finally, here's a partial matchlist from MIT. Applicants for the class of '09:

http://web.mit.edu/career/www/preprof/2005top25.pdf

Harvard: 16
Cornell: 10
Columbia: 9
UPenn: 6
Yale: 6
Dartmouth: 4

I don't know any class-sizes offhead apart from Harvard's (which is ~165), but that # indicates 10% of the matriculating HMS class came from MIT. You can calculate percentages for the remaining schools via this list of class sizes:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_size_brief.php

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

But the way I was thinking about it wasn't that the Ivy tag is an automatic admittance, or that the lack of the Ivy in your resume is an automatic rejection, but rather that it's a slight bump upwards or downwards on your app. In the op's case, it seem like it might have had a more than slight effect, or maybe it was just the crapshoot of the top tier happening to fall out a certain way like it does in Vegas sometimes.

i agree with this, including there being a "crapshoot" chance of the ivy-ness *not* being a factor in this case. the main variable that neatly differs between the two sets of schools makes this just too compelling.

 

[Hooah!80]

I was thrown aback at my results for Yale. I had the best interviews of all there. in fact, my second interviewer gave me a HUG.

Dude...I know exactly who you are talking about. That guy hugs everyone, and it doesn't mean jack. You can speculate all you want. But the fact of the matter is that you'll NEVER know why you were rejected. You probably would have done fine at those schools (and I'd bet a few thousand of the other rejected/waitlisted would have done fine as well). Unfortunately, there just aren't enough spots for all those who qualify...get over it.

 

[AudioslaveFan]

I'd be curious if someone could post some of these stats...

For Columbia P&S class of 2009, 64 of their 153 students came from an Ivy undergrad. I would say that is a significant number. Many students also came from Hopkins and Stanford and Duke, schools that are considered as highly as the Ivies.

 

[Rafa]

For Columbia P&S class of 2009, 64 of their 153 students came from an Ivy undergrad. I would say that is a significant number. Many students also came from Hopkins and Stanford and Duke, schools that are considered as highly as the Ivies.

Do you have a link of some sort?

 

[AudioslaveFan]

Do you have a link of some sort?

I have a copy of their Student Handbook.

 

[biggoron42]

no one has acknowledged the possibility that maybe the reason why the ivy undergrads are doing so much better is not because of their name-brand education, but because they are a self-selecting group, more motivated and talented than your average applicant from joe state.

there was a study a few years back comparing average incomes of ivy grads and grads of less well-known state schools. when students were just compared on basis of school, the ivies were way ahead. but when students of different schools but identical ACT/SAT scores were compared (ostensibly a measure of academic potential/talent), the salaries were also largely the same.

just something to think about.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

no one has acknowledged the possibility that maybe the reason why the ivy undergrads are doing so much better is not because of their name-brand education, but because they are a self-selecting group, more motivated and talented than your average applicant from joe state.

there was a study a few years back comparing average incomes of ivy grads and grads of less well-known state schools. when students were just compared on basis of school, the ivies were way ahead. but when students of different schools but identical ACT/SAT scores were compared (ostensibly a measure of academic potential/talent), the salaries were also largely the same.

just something to think about.

well, self-selection is the default explanation. it is because in this case a candidate from suny with great stats/ecs (good enough for top ten non-ivies) was not accepted at an ivy that the self-selection explanation was called into question.

 

[biggoron42]

in the case of the OP, its just bad luck. he has the stats and the resume, but for whatever reason it just didnt turn out. i highly doubt it is just bias against state universities, because:

a.) i bet the admins at wash u and duke were educated and trained at the exact same places as those at the ivies. so wouldnt they have the same biases?

b.)as a student at a state university, ive heard just as much anecdotal evidence against this possibility (i know people here who have gotten into harvard, etc.)

but i think there is secondary argument in this thread, that ivy league kids in general have a leg up on the rest of us. in saying that i think people need to go back to the self-selection argument, i was responding to the people who think that this is true.

 

[alpenglow]

I attended a tiny state university, much less known that yours, and got accepted to the only Ivy League school that I applied to, as well as some other great schools. No opinion here, just the facts.

 

[mbadoc]

IVies have higher selectivity than the other schools listed. As good in research and clinical teaching as non-ivies have, Wash U., Baylor, U. of Mich, Duke, etc. it is easier to get into these schools than a Cornell, Columbia, Yale, etc. The name brand of the ivies attract more applicants, and more applicants accepted to the ivies tend to go, so therefore, it is harder to get into an ivey medical school than a non-ivey school.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

we can all bring up anecdotes that point one way or the other. i still think the numbers favor the moderate-but-significant ivy-bias theory, and the value of op's anecdote is in being a clear and neat illustration of it (no doubt with the help of some bad luck in being such an extreme case).

 

[eastsidaz]

The MDapps harvard list validates my point. Look at those schools. Almost all of them are either Top 20 privates, high-ranked state schools, or prestigious liberal arts colleges like Amherst. Few exceptions.

That said, the self-selection point is very valid. You have to wonder if Ivy med school adcoms stereotype and say that all smart, qualified people self-select and go to good schools. That would be a crying shame considering the existence of talented individuals like the OP. I guess the biggest problem of any admissions process is that the huge number of applicants forces the selectors to paint with broad strokes. Even 700 interviewees is a lot, when you're talking about careful consideration of each applicant.

 

[riceman04]

Oh, finally, here's a partial matchlist from MIT. Applicants for the class of '09:

http://web.mit.edu/career/www/preprof/2005top25.pdf

Harvard: 16
Cornell: 10
Columbia: 9
UPenn: 6
Yale: 6
Dartmouth: 4

I don't know any class-sizes offhead apart from Harvard's (which is ~165), but that # indicates 10% of the matriculating HMS class came from MIT. You can calculate percentages for the remaining schools via this list of class sizes:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_size_brief.php

and MIT is not an Ivy league school