Undergrad with Lots of Questions Concerning California Pharmacy Schools

[hmtran]

I've been reading through many of the posts in this forum, and I'll try to avoid any repetitive questions. Anyways, I have lots of inquiries, and most of them pertain to Californian pharmacy schools since I am interested in going to UC schools. Currently, I am an undergrad student in a private university (Christian Brothers University) in Memphis, TN and pending to graduate in December 2003. Obviously, I am applying for admission into pharm schools for Fall 2003 through PharmCAS. My GPA right now is ~3.5 for both overall and science/prerequisite GPAs. When it comes to extracurricular activities, I severely lack this component as a student because every semester I've been taken ~18 hrs per semester + 20-25 hrs of work each week. I needed to work because I had to support myself in school, not including financially assisting my single mother and two kid sisters. My work experiences have never been geared towards science, which I believe is detrimental, but I also believe that it helped me a lot in terms of service and communication. For the past 3 years I've been working in the restaurant/hospitality industry as a server, and I loved it until I realized that it's not helping me get anywhere when it comes to my future career. Working in fine-dining and luxurious restaurants and hotels (i.e. The Rtiz-Carlton), I admit that I have excelled my capabilities when it comes to customer service and public communication, which is integral when it comes to a career in pharmacy. But, I don't believe that is adequate enough when it comes to extracurricular activities. I've recently terminated my restaurant work, and now during the summer I am commencing my research in pharmacology (involving nicotine and effects on the fetal brain in vivo). I am also TRYING to get a job in Walgreens as Pharmacy Technician, but if not I will volunteer in a hospital/retail store. This is a pretty lengthy autobiography so far, and I should get to the questions soon, but I wanted to let you know my background and circumstances first so that maybe you can evaluate me on my candidacy when it comes to acceptance into pharmacy school. Now for the questions....

1. I know that UC schools do not require the PCAT, but if I do take it and score well, does it in any way improve my chances as an applicant?

2. Exactly which schools in UC have rolling admissions? I'm pretty sure USC does.... But anyways, with the PharmCAS program, which is the best date to submit applications since it is obviously stated that applying early is the best way to go.

3. Do pharmacy schools look more at your science GPA or your overall GPA?

4. Because I'm an out-of-state applicant for California, is it necessarily less likely that I will be accepted since most of the entrant pool consists of CA residents?

5. I've been told that California pharmacy schools have less rigid requirements for California residents than out-of-state students? Is that true?

6. Do you have any idea what the average GPA for entrants in all the UC schools for 2002/2003?

7. My undergrad school has a letter/recommendation service in which they take all the recommendations for one student and put it all in one letter. Is that acceptable for pharm schools? Or do I have to submit the recommendations individually?

8. I am missing Physiology for my requirements into pharm school. I have registered with my school for A&P I, but then I realized that to complete a physiology requirement I either have to finish a physiology course, or complete A&PI and II. Because I am graduating in December 2003, I definitely do not want to take A&P II in the spring, unless I HAVE to. My school does not offer physiology in the fall, so I am considering taking it at another public university as an audited course (non-degree seeking). Is this wise? Or should I go ahead and stick to taking A&P I and II?

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[hmtran]

I just want to say thank you for taking the time to read through my crap and answering my questions. Sorry if it was a hassle. And if I do have any more questions (which is very probably), I'll let you know soon! Thanx bunches!

 

[BMBiology]

1. I know that UC schools do not require the PCAT, but if I do take it and score well, does it in any way improve my chances as an applicant?
---I believe it does not matter; California pharmacy schools do not accept PCAT scores.

2. Exactly which schools in UC have rolling admissions?
---Yes, apply EARLY. I can't emphasize this enough!
USC, UOP and Western all use rolling admissions; UCSD and UCSF do not. If you apply early, you will interview at USC, UOP and Western in Oct, Nov, or December; UCSD and UCSF in January.

3. Do pharmacy schools look more at your science GPA or your overall GPA?
---I would say that your science GPA is more important than your non-science GPA.

4. Because I'm an out-of-state applicant for California, is it necessarily less likely that I will be accepted since most of the entrant pool consists of CA residents?
---At the private pharmacy schools such as USC, UOP and Western, they do not care if you are a California resident or not. This does not influence their admissions decision. Since UCSD and UCSF are public schools, they do favor California residents. I believe about 90 - 95% of their students are California residents. However, if you are an out-of-state applicant with good stats then I am sure you will be a competitive candidate at UCSD and UCSF regardless.

5. I've been told that California pharmacy schools have less rigid requirements for California residents than out-of-state students? Is that true?
No, this is not true. Everybody has to fulfill the same pre-reqs.

6. Do you have any idea what the average GPA for entrants in all the UC schools for 2002/2003?
---I have not seen this year's statistics yet, but in 2000-2001:
(1) UCSD/SF: Approximately 80% of accepted students have a GPA of 3.5 or higher.
(2) USC: 3.47
(3) UOP: 3.1-3.4
(4) Western: 3.13

7. My undergrad school has a letter/recommendation service in which they take all the recommendations for one student and put it all in one letter. Is that acceptable for pharm schools? Or do I have to submit the recommendations individually?
---My school also has the same service, but I decided to send the letters individually. However, I don't see why you shouldn't use your school's service. California pharmacy schools also require your recommenders to fill out a survey about you such as your leadership skills, communication skills to name a couble.

8. I am missing Physiology for my requirements into pharm school. I have registered with my school for A&P I, but then I realized that to complete a physiology requirement I either have to finish a physiology course, or complete A&PI and II. Because I am graduating in December 2003, I definitely do not want to take A&P II in the spring, unless I HAVE to. My school does not offer physiology in the fall, so I am considering taking it at another public university as an audited course (non-degree seeking). Is this wise? Or should I go ahead and stick to taking A&P I and II?
--I didnt take physiology at my school as well. Instead, the summer after I graduated I took physiology at a Junior College. You need to make sure the physiology class meets the pre-req! If your science GPA is good, then I suggest taking it at a public university. It is probably not going to hurt your chance of getting accepted.

Good Luck! Feel free to ask additional questions.

Additional information on California pharmacy schools:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63080

 

[hmtran]

So I should submit my application in September? I think August is way too tight for me, but I will try.

 

[Triangulation]

Honestly, I wouldn't focus on the PCAT at all. It won't help you at the upper tier schools in CA (The UCs refuse to consider them, and i'm pretty sure SC was the same.) You have time to submit by August. I know that may sound draconian, but earlier is a lot better in this game, especially at the rolling schools like SC, Western, UOP you want to compete with as small a pool as possible. I know you're possible worries, "What if i get accepted to UOP in November and don't find out from UCSF until April?" The simple answer is you gotta be willing to eat your deposit for the stability that comes up with getting to some school for next fall. You want to be the first interviewee to walk in the door at SC!!!

This is pretty much the same advice everyone else gets: Volunteer and get some experience under your belt. If you can't find a position in a pharmacy do not despair, you can still get an excellent experience in a volunteer setting. Read up on the issues.

At my i.v.'s I just tried to blow them away with a depth of knowledge on what i was interested in. I wanted them to go away from the i.v. saying "that kid said he was interested in policy and he knew everything there was. I learned something from him." The only way to keep them from calling your bluff is not to be bluffing.

I've said this before: Don't get initimidated by the applicant stats at the UCs. I didn't have close to a 3.5 and I got in to ucsf. They look hard to find assets that will increase the quality of their school.

 

[hmtran]

Thank you Tri, for such an elaborate response. From your advice, I will DEFINITELY submit my application in August. I was hoping to submit it in September because I wanted to use my college's letter service, but I guess that's not possible anymore. Thanx again for the advice.

 

[Triangulation]

Yeah, you might want to call Cali pharm schools, some are really pissy about taking letter service letters bc they only want individuals to use their specific form (I remember western and uop were like that.)

Be sure to check on the pre-reqs, bc the UCs were actually the most lax in the requirements western and SC are a nightmare. Western gives you crap about every little class you take.

 

[Triangulation]

Oh yeah and don't forget that ucsf has an application workshop like once a month during the application cycle. You might wanna think about coming out and seeing what it's like. It's impressive. Moreover, if you're ready to apply at ucsf you're prepared, ec for coursework which varies a lot from cali school to cali school, you're ready for the other CA schools.

 

[lyzziebeth]

Originally posted by hmtran
was hoping to submit it in September because I wanted to use my college's letter service, but I guess that's not possible anymore.

Don't schools offer that service year round? Mine certainly does...

 

[hmtran]

They do, but they take forever.....Since school starts on Aug 20, they'll probably submit a whole package of recommendation in late Sept or beginning of Oct, so I'd rather do it myself.

 

[neonam11]

1. I know that UC schools do not require the PCAT, but if I do take it and score well, does it in any way improve my chances as an applicant?
*If you want to apply to a top ten school outside of California, like the U Texas, go for it. However, the California schools will not look at your PCAT scores.

3. Do pharmacy schools look more at your science GPA or your overall GPA?
*I would agree with the others and say that the admission committees place more emphasis on your science GPA since it is more indicative of whether you can handle the course load offered at the pharm schools.

4. Because I'm an out-of-state applicant for California, is it necessarily less likely that I will be accepted since most of the entrant pool consists of CA residents?
*I have spoken to several incoming UCSF pharmacy students, and most of them (3/4) happen to be out of state. I think that the UC's have a minimum GPA you have to meet based on your residency:
2.8 for all applicants who are not legal residents of California
2.4 for California residents (a) without a bachelor's degree or (b) who do not meet the University of California Freshman Eligibility Index from high school
2.0 for California residents with a bachelor's degree or who meet the University of California Freshman Eligibility Index from high school

5. I've been told that California pharmacy schools have less rigid requirements for California residents than out-of-state students? Is that true?
* As mentioned in the answer to question#4, the minimum GPA required for in-state v. out-state residents is the only difference.

6. Do you have any idea what the average GPA for entrants in all the UC schools for 2002/2003?
*This is the profile for UCSF's class of 2006:

Overall Grade Point Average (GPA)
The average is 3.44, the range is 2.66 to 3.97.

Entering Prepharmacy GPA
The average is 3.34, the range is 2.55 to 4.00.

Entering Overall Units
The average is 213.06, the range is 121.50 to 300.50.

Class Size
About 122 students for each class year.

Gender
25.4% Male
74.6% Female

Nationality
99.6% United States citizens
0.4% Not United States citizens

Country of Origin
Afghanistan, Armenia, Brazil, Burma, Cambodia, Canada, China, France, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Taiwan, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Vietnam

Residency
95% California residents
4% non-California US residents
less than 1% non-US residents

Age
The average is 24, the range is 21 to 43.

Ethnicity
51.6% Asian
19.7% Caucasian
14% Underrepresented minorities (including African American, Chicano / Latino, Filipino, Pacific Islander, American Indian)
10.7% Other
4.1% Unknown

Birthplace
47% born inside the United States
53% born outside the United States

Schooling Prior to UCSF
97.5% four-year college or university only
2.5% community college only

Degree When Entering
95.9% Bachelor's
1.6% Master's
4.1% no degree

Entering Students from University of California
10% Berkeley
15% Davis
11% Irvine
16% Los Angeles
2% Riverside
11% San Diego
3% Santa Barbara
2% Santa Cruz

Majors
Top 2 majors: biochemistry and biological sciences.

Less common majors: anthropology, applied ecology, architecture, bioengineering, biophysiology, biopsychology, biotechnology, chemistry, combined science, economics, French, integrative biology, kinesiology, mathematics, microbiology, microbiology and molecular genetics, natural science and mathematics, nutrition, pharmaceutical sciences, pharmacology, pharmacological chemistry, physiology, psychobiology, psychology, sociology.



7. My undergrad school has a letter/recommendation service in which they take all the recommendations for one student and put it all in one letter. Is that acceptable for pharm schools? Or do I have to submit the recommendations individually?
*If UCSF and UCSD have another form for the recommender to fill out the evaluations about you as a candidate for pharmacy school, I would recommend using the respective school's form. The admission committes want specific questions answered that might be missing from the form that your school uses. Remember also to choose recommenders who will do an excellent job of evaluating who you are and what you are potential are. The more details the recommender can provide, the better the picture the admission committee will get of you.

8. I am missing Physiology for my requirements into pharm school. I have registered with my school for A&P I, but then I realized that to complete a physiology requirement I either have to finish a physiology course, or complete A&PI and II. Because I am graduating in December 2003, I definitely do not want to take A&P II in the spring, unless I HAVE to. My school does not offer physiology in the fall, so I am considering taking it at another public university as an audited course (non-degree seeking). Is this wise? Or should I go ahead and stick to taking A&P I and II?
*Go with the school that offers the course that is cheapest and more convenient for you. From what I gather, they don't care if you take your one required course from Harvard or a local community college. Before I applied to UCSF, I had to complete several courses at a community college because of my work schedule.
From your biography, I gather that you had to put your nose to the grind stone to get where you are while supporting your mom and siblings. I believe that UCSF and UCSD has a supplementary section where you can explain how extenuating circumstances limited your opportunities in college to volunteer and take on roles in becoming a leader, but at the same time, how you have found meaning in whatever that you were doing. What I remember best about James Betzbe's speech, the admission coordinator, when I went to one of UCSF's Pharmacy Information Day jubilee was that when it comes to your extracurricular activities, it's not the quantity of activities you were involved in that will spark the admission committe's attention, it will be the details you provide--what you did and what you learned from the experience. To make your application competive, definitely volunteer at a pharmacy or work as a tech. Also, if the pharmacists can't provide you with all the answers you seek, get it from books. I think I learned more from reading "Pharmacy: What It Is and How It Works" than asking any pharmacists or intern. They were just too darn busy at the in-patient pharmacy at UCSF!! Pick it up from the online store at Barnes and Noble. I would have to disagree with Tri and say that it is not worth the time and money to fly to SF to soley attend one of the application workshop. Although I attended one last year, I don't think I improved my application any better if I were not to attend one. If you have common sense and really, really want to attend UCSF or UCSD, you gotta work for it. Show them what makes you unique and how you can can contribute to the incoming class and the field, for Tri it was probably on management and policy issues and for me it was pharmacogenomics. Pick a niche for yourself and show the admission committe how you can make it shine. Good Luck!

 

[hmtran]

Thanks Neonam for the extensive advice. I looked at your stats for ethnicity of the incoming classes, and I didn't know that asians make up 50%. Kinda nice to know that so many asians are in the field of pharmacy since I am an asian myself (Vietnamese), but maybe that'll increase the competition for me. Who knows, but my self-esteem has definitely been raised a notch since I've read your response. Again, thanx bunches.

Mai

 

[jdpharmd?]

Originally posted by hmtran
Thanks Neonam for the extensive advice. I looked at your stats for ethnicity of the incoming classes, and I didn't know that asians make up 50%. Kinda nice to know that so many asians are in the field of pharmacy since I am an asian myself (Vietnamese), but maybe that'll increase the competition for me. Who knows, but my self-esteem has definitely been raised a notch since I've read your response. Again, thanx bunches.

Mai

Asians make up a very large part of any California school. I can remember looking at the stats for the UofC schools as an undergrad and frequently seeing between 20% and 50% asian students. I don't know how much has changed since then, but many, many pharmacists who I've worked with have been Vietnamese. Actually, I worked with a pharmacist who's mother, husband, and husband's brother were all pharmacists, and also all Vietnamese. Actually, her name was Tran! (but now that I look at it, your name is Mai, what's the "tran" part in your ID?)

Actually I was just watching comedy central, and they had an asian doctor/comic whose joke was:

"I didn't really want to be a doctor, I was just kind of pushed into it. My interview went something like this:"
"Let's see, you have a 1.8 GPA, no extra-currucular activities, no research, is there anything that you'd like to add?"
"Yes, I'm Korean"
"Congratulations, welcome to med school!"

I didn't make it up! No flames!

Jd

 

[hmtran]

Funny....hopefully that'll work for me. But anyways, yeah Tran is my last name...but Tran is like Smith or Jones or Brown or Williams or whatnot. Really common. My name is Mai (pronounced "my," not "may" or "mia" or "me"....lol...I'm really picky about it). Just wanted to let u know. =)

 

[neonam11]

Mai,

If you are looking for an Asian population to hang out with while at UCSF, look no further. UCSF has one of the largest populations of Asians in their professional and graduate programs, which includes a healthy population of Vietnamese/Vietnamese-Americans. From what I gather, although there might be a large Asian population at UCSF, all the students seem to congregate with one another based more on common interests rather than race, which was what I wanted to hear. Another great perk about going to UCSF is that you have a city where Vietnamese restaurants actually serve top-notch Vietnamese cuisine, a real bonus if you like Vietnamese food, and you are far away from Mom's cooking.
Don't worry, being Asian will not decrease your chances of gaining admission into UCSF. The admission board does not support affirmative action nor reverse-affirmative action programs, based soley on a person's race, gender, religious affiliation, etc. Remember, if you have a good pre-pharmacy GPA, good communication skills-both in written and oral form, community service, leadership roles, pharmacy experience, and have a deep understanding of pharmacy, you should be in good contention for one of the 122 seats available come next fall. If you have any questions or concerns about the admission process-whether you are proceeding it in the correct manner-feel free to ask me or one of the others for help. Heck, if you submit me your essays before I start UCSF, September 17th, I'll bounce them back with helpful comments. Again, good luck.

 

[hmtran]

Well yeah it is nice to know that there's such an extensive population in California, as compared to Memphis....but I am not applying to UCSF instead I'm focusing more on USC, UOP, and Western, and few more places beyond Cali. I'm sure LA has lots of Asians too, not to worry about that. But I promised myself (and mom) that I won't rely on restaurants and fast food when I get to pharm school because I love to cook (and need to learn more stuff anyways). But we'll have to see how that works out in the first place, given how much time do I have left with school and work and all....=) But anyways, neo thanks for the advice. ttyl

 

[Triangulation]

I would have to disagree with Tri and say that it is not worth the time and money to fly to SF to soley attend one of the application workshop. Although I attended one last year, I don't think I improved my application any better if I were not to attend one. If you have common sense and really, really want to attend UCSF or UCSD, you gotta work for it.

I agree that it's not necessary to attend the workshop, but i figure it gives him the opportuntity to check all the schools he's interested provided he's willing to head to So Cal. UOP's an hour away. He could hit all the So Cal schools including loma Linda in a day, if he was booking. The UCSD campus is not to be missed.

 

[FMLizard]

Wow, that is a very slanted pool of acceptances compared to the general US population. Less than 20% white, less than 25% male, over half born outside of the U.S. Is this just a UC thing or is it really like this all over?

Will we see a day when American born white males get URM status? Based on these numbers, they should.

 

[neonam11]

Mai,

Hey, what happened? During your very first post, you said that you were interested in the UC's, which there are only two of that offers a PharmD degree, UCSF and UCSD, so I presumed that you meant these two in particular. If you are worried about whether you can get in or not, you'll never know unless you try. I apologize if I sound pushy, but some people, especially the ones with potential, need a little bit more encouragement than others. The next time I'm up at UCSF, which will probably be in September for orientations, I'll bring my digital camera along and snap some pictures of the beautiful campus and my class having fun together, doing what, I'll leave to your imagination.
Oh yeah, one more thing, if some of you are wondering why I never posted the rankings for the pharm schools I promised ages ago, the library service at my workplace axed the idea. Apparently they have millions of dollars to shell out for three state-of-the-art research facilities, one of which is in Mai's hometown, called Cell Genesys, but they will not fork over a few measly dollars for an electronic subscription to the journal that had that particular article.

 

[neonam11]

FMLizard,

California is more diverse than most states and, in general, have more minorities accepted into the PharmD program. Perhaps they make a larger percentage of the applicant pool than Caucasian, who knows. However, there is one trend that is ubiquitous nationwide-women pharmacists outnumber men by as much as 15%. Here are the statistics provided by the American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy (AACP) for pharmacists who got their degrees from 2001-2002:

PROFESSIONAL (Baccalaureate, Pharm.D.) DEGREES CONFERRED 2001-02
? The total number of first professional degrees conferred (N=7,573) increased 8.2 percent from 2000-01.
? Women received 65.7 percent of the first professional degrees conferred; men received 34.3 percent.
? Of the first professional degree recipients, 18.7 percent received baccalaureates and 81.3 percent received Pharm.D.1 degrees.
? White Americans received the majority of baccalaureates (61.1 percent). Underrepresented minorities received 11.9 percent (black, 4.3 percent; Hispanic, 6.5 percent; American Indian, 1.1 percent). Asian Americans received 22.0 percent of the baccalaureates. The percentage of baccalaureate recipients who were foreign, nonpermanent residents of the U.S. was 2.3 percent, down from 3.4 percent in 2000-01.
? White Americans received the majority of Pharm.D.1 degrees (61.4 percent). Underrepresented minorities received 12.2 percent (black, 8.3 percent; Hispanic, 3.4 percent; American Indian, 0.5 percent). Asian Americans received 21.3 percent of the Pharm.D.1 degrees. The percentage of Pharm.D.1 degree recipients who were foreign, nonpermanent residents of the U.S. was 2.4 percent, up from 2.1 percent in 2000-01.
? The number of Pharm.D.2 degrees conferred (n=780) decreased by 20.3 percent from 2000-01.
? More women than men received Pharm.D.2 degrees: women, 64.6 percent; men, 35.4 percent.
? The percentage of Pharm.D.2 degree recipients who were foreign, nonpermanent residents of the U.S. was 1.9, down 0.3 percent from 2000-

 

[riskhk]

Originally posted by hmtran
Well yeah it is nice to know that there's such an extensive population in California, as compared to Memphis....but I am not applying to UCSF instead I'm focusing more on USC, UOP, and Western, and few more places beyond Cali. I'm sure LA has lots of Asians too, not to worry about that. But I promised myself (and mom) that I won't rely on restaurants and fast food when I get to pharm school because I love to cook (and need to learn more stuff anyways). But we'll have to see how that works out in the first place, given how much time do I have left with school and work and all....=) But anyways, neo thanks for the advice. ttyl

If you go to UOP you can cook for me too

 

[hmtran]

so what do i get out of it?

 

[Triangulation]

instead I'm focusing more on USC,

Now you're talkin'!!! You won't find an institution that takes better care of its alums than USC.