undergraduate student

[epigastric]

I believe Harvard's acceptance rate to medical schools is >95%. However, take this statistic with caution: the official premed advice is to apply widely and broadly. The average premed student (according to my pre-med advisor) applies to twenty-two medical schools (I submitted 17 primaries). I personally know many who applied to >30 schools. Thus, the acceptance rate is the rate at which a student is accepted to a medical school; not, for example, the rate at which a student is accepted to the top 3 schools of his or her choice.

Do you know if the Harvard stats include those in the Extension school pre-med program? I remember a bitter student who went to the program only to figure out (too late) that the Extension school does, in fact, choose whom to recommend. But they seem pretty open about that, which made me think that maybe the school called it right when they chose not to support her.

Which is not to say I doubt the regular Harvard numbers; just adding it wouldn't surprise me if the Extension school had a similarly miraculous rate because it does pick and choose.

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[Dayfed]

If he really wants to go into med school, let him go where he wants. He'll do the best at where and what he likes. I'll tell you about my situation: My parents really pushed me into becoming a Biomedical Engineering major, since I am good at math and biology. For me, I found my classes to be horrible, and the more at looked at what engineers do, it just wasn't for me. I love to help people. My job currently as a CNA is wonderful, and I know that most people would hate that job.

Anyways, long story made short, I suffered a nervous mental breakdown my first semester as a freshman. Luckly, I was going to the University I enjoyed, had many friends that could be my support group, and wasn't stuck to a technical major like biomedical engineering. Everything worked out, I got most of my tuition back because my problems were medical, I just wasn't feeling bad or was indecisive, because EVERYONE goes through that their freshman year. And I withdrew from my classes before they became F's so my GPA is still rock solid. Also, since I worked so hard in high school, I came in with 40+ credits, and I wasn't put back a year at all. I'm doing great now because I have a goal of sticking to a major and pre-med track that gets me motivated.

I'd still say that your son may change his mind, you never know. You grow up a LOT your first semester, and that's from someone who always thought that I was mature for my age. On the other hand, when I was in 7th grade, I did a report about Psychiatry, and based on where I want to go and my personality, that's ultimately a profession that I could see myself in. I also have a backup plan if med school is not for me, and who knows, I still have three years to ultimately decide, though the earlier you decide, the better.

Just expect to accept the unknown of what is to come, especially if your son does want to become a doctor, because there is an enormous amount of work, stress, and time (12 years possibly) put in before you can even get your foot in the door to say that you are a "doctor".

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Trust me, they don't. This is what has been told to me by our preprof office, and they get their info from the source. And all the people I know who went to JHMI from JHU got into multiple top 10 schools.

Also, when I do the search for anyone who applied MD and got accepted to JHMI, it brings up 6 results, 5 of which got into another top 10. Not that you can extrapolate any thing meaningful from mdapps anyway, but still.

hmm for some reason i thought the mdapps showed different. it does show some weird cases though if you ''check-off' exclude incomplete profiles where some applicants slingshotted an acceptance to hopkins while not getting into less reputable schools.

well you got your info straight from the source so i dont want to dispute that... its kind of weird that they dont feed their own students (unlike the majority of top med schools).

 

[kmom]

Can anyone tell me the difference between University of Pittsburgh and Tufts University at the undergraduate level?, besides the tuition cost. Is it University of Pittsburgh a good school for majoring in pre-med or biology?

 

[chickenlittle84]

You do not have to major in "pre-med" (does such a major even exist?) or biology to go to medical school. Your son will find interesting things to study no matter where he goes!

 

[postbacker]

Can anyone tell me the difference between University of Pittsburgh and Tufts University at the undergraduate level?, besides the tuition cost. Is it University of Pittsburgh a good school for majoring in pre-med or biology?

Has to be a troll, because this "mom" sure has a lot of basic questions considering tomorrow is May 1 (isn't that "D Day" for undergrad acceptances?)...

 

[spicedmanna]

You do not have to major in "pre-med" (does such a major even exist?) or biology to go to medical school. Your son will find interesting things to study no matter where he goes!

Exactly. Major in what interests you; it doesn't matter for medical school admissions, for the most part. What matters is that you do well.

Can anyone tell me the difference between University of Pittsburgh and Tufts University at the undergraduate level?, besides the tuition cost.

Um, how about location and educational environment for starters? Both are decent schools; if your son has visited them, then he would have developed a gut feeling for where he thinks he'll thrive. Let him pick based on that. Naturally, you'll need to consider expenses, too, but if you have the ability to get the funds without too much difficulty, then it shouldn't really be the limiting factor, in my opinion. It's really important, I think, to attend a college you believe you'll enjoy for 4-years, otherwise, it can be quite a long haul.

 

[smq123]

Can anyone tell me the difference between University of Pittsburgh and Tufts University at the undergraduate level?, besides the tuition cost. Is it University of Pittsburgh a good school for majoring in pre-med or biology?

Pittsburgh is a good school for majoring in biology. It is a good school for majoring in many things - philosophy, languages, history, history of fine art, chemistry.

Pittsburgh does NOT have a formal pre-med major. They encourage you to major in a real subject, not a pre-career track.

Tufts is also a very good school, though. Shouldn't this be your son's decision?

 

[spicedmanna]

Shouldn't this be your son's decision?

Precisely; it really ought to be. Unless, of course, the "mom" is actually the son in disguise, in similiar fashion to the "I have a friend..." posts. But I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[DaiCa86]

I'm also an undergrad. This is from my own personal experiences. I'd much rather be a big fish in a small pond, then a small fish in a big pond.

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm also an undergrad. This is from my own personal experiences. I'd much rather be a big fish in a small pond, then a small fish in a big pond.

Why not be a big fish in a big pond?

Just kidding...

 

[DaiCa86]

Why not be a big fish in a big pond?

Just kidding...

HAHA by all means, if you can do it, go for it! What I'm trying to say is go to where you're going to do well.

 

[xx216xx]

Can anyone tell me the difference between University of Pittsburgh and Tufts University at the undergraduate level?, besides the tuition cost. Is it University of Pittsburgh a good school for majoring in pre-med or biology?

If the kind of intelligence that you're displaying runs in the family tell your son not to go to college, there are just way too many things that you're saying/asking that are just plain dumb. On a side note, pre-med is not a major and anyone saying they are pre-med without holding an acceptance is a ***** in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure this is troll as well, if not...

 

[LexiLuthor]

Ah, choosing a college. I think it went like this for me, roughly:

Me: Hey mom and dad, I am applying to schools now.

MomAndDad: That's nice, we can pay for you to go to an instate school and if you want to go anywhere else, you need to take some loans out and figure out all of that financial stuff.

Me: Oh, cool, allright.

Wasn't much of a choice for me I don't think they even asked where I was applying!

 

[PZMO]

Agreed- jeez, why does your opinion matter so much? This is your son's life, it is not your own. Are you going to school there?

And if it is because you are financing his education- he's better off paying for it himself and being able to make his own decisions. I'm not kidding. Let him be.

For the record- I'm graduating from a crappy state school this spring. And I was accepted to 100% of the (good) med schools I applied to. Imagine that. My parents were able to let me go when I graduated high school. Sure, I've got debt, but I've had four absolutely incredible years here.


....Not that there is anything at all wrong with "better" undergrads... it just needs to be the student's choice. Your son will be able to succeed wherever he goes, if he is so inclined.

 

[TheGreatHunt]

Ah, choosing a college. I think it went like this for me, roughly:

Me: Hey mom and dad, I am applying to schools now.

MomAndDad: That's nice, we can pay for you to go to an instate school and if you want to go anywhere else, you need to take some loans out and figure out all of that financial stuff.

Me: Oh, cool, allright.

Wasn't much of a choice for me I don't think they even asked where I was applying!

Wow, that's actually pretty damn sweet.

My talk with my parents went like this:

Me: How do I apply to College? Where do I apply? What do I do?

Parents: If you can't afford to go to college on your own, go into the Military. College isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway

(My father had to get his GED a couple of years before this, and no one in the history of my family had ever attended college)

My parents literally tried to talk me out of going to college... hahah. I ended up missing my first semester so I could work up enough money to pay for second semester. In the 4 years I've been in school now, I've gotten about... 800 bucks total from my parents, and I consider myself pretty lucky, that's 100 bucks a semester Mostly in gas money! lol

 

[Bacchus]

The life expectancy is increasing. Go where you want... the money will work out in the end. I can't believe that the "mom" keeps asking about the merit of Pitt. Is there anything to argue about it? I didn't think so. I wish I could have gone there.

 

[LexiLuthor]

Wow, that's actually pretty damn sweet.

My talk with my parents went like this:

Me: How do I apply to College? Where do I apply? What do I do?

Parents: If you can't afford to go to college on your own, go into the Military. College isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway

(My father had to get his GED a couple of years before this, and no one in the history of my family had ever attended college)

My parents literally tried to talk me out of going to college... hahah. I ended up missing my first semester so I could work up enough money to pay for second semester. In the 4 years I've been in school now, I've gotten about... 800 bucks total from my parents, and I consider myself pretty lucky, that's 100 bucks a semester Mostly in gas money! lol

I know, I felt really lucky! I worked to pay room/board/lifestyle (clothes, going out, car, insurance) but my tuition was covered. My parents rock. I paid for my post-bac classes out of pocket and am going to be paying for med school with either loans or by going through the Air Force (I am most likely going to USUHS)

 

[da8s0859q]

As yet another premedder on this board, I will say that my own mother strongly suggested going local, enjoying the benefits of a near-home university, doing as well as I did in my high school, [...].

I'll also say that I was perfectly fine with attending the university I attended (am attending), comfortable with the environment save for my hot weather hatred, and have done considerably well for myself in academia thus far; assuming my grade trend up to now (I'm a senior), I'll be having a summa graduation with well over a 3.9.

His happiness with his school and its environment - and all things that will come from that - is/are worth more than some presumed program benefit, imo.

 

[crimsonkid85]

Do you know if the Harvard stats include those in the Extension school pre-med program? I remember a bitter student who went to the program only to figure out (too late) that the Extension school does, in fact, choose whom to recommend. But they seem pretty open about that, which made me think that maybe the school called it right when they chose not to support her.

Which is not to say I doubt the regular Harvard numbers; just adding it wouldn't surprise me if the Extension school had a similarly miraculous rate because it does pick and choose.

no; all harvard numbers from the OCS office only pertain to that of the College undergraduates. And you're absolutely right: the recommendation process among the undergraduate premedical advising committees are extremely murky. I have a few friends among the advisors and let me tell you, I'm glad I was never aware of how the 'selection' process worked before I applied--in terms of evaluating premeds prior to writing their Dean's Letter/Cover Letter. The College definately does not endorse applicants equally. It's clear which ones they recommend the highest.

On to the OP's original point. I really think that he should go where he's happiest. Many people talk about the virtues of big fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a big pond. but i think it doesn't matter, so long as he's happy. I come from a public high school from a small town in Texas. Going to college in the northeast was incredibly stressful to me, and I found that I was extremely unprepared compared to the many students who had taken extensive college-level courses in northeastern universities. I was completely blown out of the water, and it was distressing being the small fish in the big pond. As a senior, I guess I can say that I'm no longer a small fish. I've definately found my academic niche, and many think I have become a 'big fish' in the big pond. But I can tell you that I definately feel that it's not the case. College has ended up giving me the biggest self-esteem issues, made me stressed out, easily irritated, and hyper-aware of the competition around me. I'm not talking about 'oh i'm working so hard, i'm so tired, etc etc' I'm talking about perpetual thoughts of 'crap, i need to do more, i need to stop wasting time, i need to sleep less, will i be a decent candidate, etc' Did it prepare me for the med school application process? Definately. But I think that plenty of other schools could have done the same thing in a much less brutal way.

I realize I'm ranting a little so I do apologize for that. I guess my point is just that wherever your son goes, I hope that he will find his years not only highly rewarding education-wise, but also personally fulfilling.

 

[mountainhare]

The College definately does not endorse applicants equally. It's clear which ones they recommend the highest.

Do you really think Pre-Med Committee Letters matter that much? I would argue that they probably don't matter much, since they don't add any new information to one's file that isn't already contained in the other parts of one's application (the faculty LORs, etc.). Moreover, at many other colleges, there are no Committee Letters (which is why some applicants have to use Interfolio, etc.), so I can't imagine how Committee Letters could be a very useful tool for comparing one applicant to all other applicants. The only contact that I ever had with my pre-med committee was one hour-long meeting with one member of the committee, and I imagine that many premeds' experiences with their committees were similar.

So, although I agree that the Committee Letters are very sly in the way that they endorse some candidates more highly than others, I think these letters would be pretty meaningless if they *didn't* endorse some candidates more highly than others. Heck, I think they're pretty meaningless regardless. I think that the more relevant issue here is that the College rarely takes the trouble to dissuade anyone from applying (as far as I'm aware), which means that those >95% acceptance rates that they claim to have are "genuine."

P.S. You look like you did really great in the application process, crimsonkid -- definitely big fish in a big pond. ;-)

 

[Bacchus]

Do you really think Pre-Med Committee Letters matter that much? I would argue that they probably don't matter much, since they don't add any new information to one's file that isn't already contained in the other parts of one's application (the faculty LORs, etc.). Moreover, at many other colleges, there are no Committee Letters (which is why some applicants have to use Interfolio, etc.), so I can't imagine how Committee Letters could be a very useful tool for comparing one applicant to all other applicants. The only contact that I ever had with my pre-med committee was one hour-long meeting with one member of the committee, and I imagine that many premeds' experiences with their committees were similar.

So, although I agree that the Committee Letters are very sly in the way that they endorse some candidates more highly than others, I think these letters would be pretty meaningless if they *didn't* endorse some candidates more highly than others. Heck, I think they're pretty meaningless regardless. I think that the more relevant issue here is that the College rarely takes the trouble to dissuade anyone from applying (as far as I'm aware), which means that those >95% acceptance rates that they claim to have are "genuine."

P.S. You look like you did really great in the application process, crimsonkid -- definitely big fish in a big pond. ;-)

I think my institution's committee works well. Here's why... There is no formal meeting. You as the student pick 6 faculty members that you know and have them write letters of recommendation for you. Those get forwarded to the pre-medical advisor (who is the committee head) who then composites them into one letter. You know her too, in my case, I've met with her several occasions which will hopefully work in my favor over those who do not even know who she is. It's helpful, I feel, because you get to choose who is recommending you. You obviously will not ask teachers that you haven't interacted with or teachers that don't know you well enough to evaluate you.

 

[baylormed]

I think my institution's committee works well. Here's why... There is no formal meeting. You as the student pick 6 faculty members that you know and have them write letters of recommendation for you. Those get forwarded to the pre-medical advisor (who is the committee head) who then composites them into one letter. You know her too, in my case, I've met with her several occasions which will hopefully work in my favor over those who do not even know who she is. It's helpful, I feel, because you get to choose who is recommending you. You obviously will not ask teachers that you haven't interacted with or teachers that don't know you well enough to evaluate you.

I agree. The committee at my school is also very good, and I have been told that their recommendation DOES carry a lot of weight in the medical schools in our state. The process is similar to what you described. I compiled 8 letters of recommendation from professors and I had an extra 2 letters from two of the physicians whom I've worked with. The commitee compiles these letters. Then, there is also an application that I had to fill out (essay, ec's, transcripts)...kind of like a medical school application, but for the interview with the commitee. During the interview, which is remarkably like a medical school interview, 3 professors (both PhDs and MDs...we have a couple of MDs in our faculty) ask you questions about your application, your motivations, experiences, etc, and then, IN ADDITION TO the letters of recommendation compiled, the committee writes an evaluation on you and a recommendation (if they see it fit) to the medical schools on your behalf.

All of this is included in one package which is what medical schools receive, as opposed to the usual 2-3 LORs only.

They will also point out any areas in which you are weak, any mistakes during the interview, etc. In other words, the interview is used both to evaluate the student and write the committee recommendation, as well as to prepare the student for his/her future medical school interviews. I gotta say that it was definitely excellent practice.


The professor who is the head of the committee has been doing it for a very long time and he is very well respected and known by adcoms in the state. Most of the professors have experience doing the interview, as they do it every year, and they are experienced with the process, the requirements, and what a possibly successful applicant and future medical student looks like both on paper and during the interview.

I think everything depends on the committee at your school. If they were just in charge of compiling letters, then they would indeed be very useless, just a middle man between the LORs and the medical school. However, not all committees are that useless, many of them do much more.

 

[postbacker]

Do you really think Pre-Med Committee Letters matter that much?

For comparing applicants from college A at med school B, I would think that the committee letter would be very useful for differentiating or stratifying applicants - now I don't know if individual med schools do this (actively comparing applicants from college A), but if they do, the committee letter would be quite useful for that purpose. And surely experienced ADCOMS develop a sense for the committee letters from different colleges...