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UNECOM: The most expensive COM in the known universe.

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Jack Daniel, Apr 20, 2007.

  1. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    Just got a letter from our fearless university president. It's a lovely 2-pager with all the wonderful going-ons in UNE.

    The best part was the final insert, a brief announcement lovingly folded and placed with extra care in the envelope: tuition rates will be $39 grand next year.

    Don't worry, she says. This tuition is "on par" with the other private COMs. On par, my ass.

    According to 2007 AACOM data, UNECOM will be one of the most expensive schools: http://www.aacom.org/colleges/tuition.asp. Depending on what AZCOM does, they may have wrested the glory of being the MOST EXPENSIVE SCHOOL OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE.

    I feel so lucky.
     
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  3. djnels01

    djnels01 "You're the man now dog!"
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    Wow, that's lame. I applied to MSU-COM fall '05 and when I found out their out-of-state tuition was $46k I immediately withdrew-

    DMU tuition is about $33k, and I feel like I'm being assaulted, I can't imagine what you feel like :eek:

    What was tuition this year?
     
  4. grinchick5

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    No doubt $39K is among the top, but I don't think the chart is entirely accurate (or else I'm not reading it correctly -- entirely possible). CCOM is now around $38K in state and $42K OOS. The chart you linked indicates that OOS at CCOM is less than $40K.
     
  5. olliemctuffy

    olliemctuffy Member
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    Are you a 3rd or 4th year at UNECOM? I'm a 2nd year and haven't received this letter. We brought up tuition at a Dean's forum, they basically passed the buck. Some of the people interviewing for the dean's job saw this tuition as a problem, the current interim dean has no plans to address the tuition. Evidently they think that it's perfectly reasonable for a person to leave school here with over 250 thousand dollars debt. I don't. Doctors are making less and less and school is costing more and more, this is not a good situation. Debts like this drive people away from primary care. I hate that we have no say in this!!!!
     
  6. djnels01

    djnels01 "You're the man now dog!"
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    +1. Amen to that...
     
  7. cremaster2007

    cremaster2007 Birthday cake remix
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    I'm graduating from DMU this year and my financial aid link shows how much I owe.............my grand total for spending two years on campus, and then two years fending for myself was $203,681. It isn't the only reason, but did play some role in what field I chose. Good luck I have a feeling its only going to keep getting worse:thumbdown:
     
  8. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    Appreciate the sympathy. Tuition this year was 36.7

    1st year. Tuition is the same, I think, for first-third years.

    It would be great if the new dean would advocate for tuition cuts. However, I hope the new dean, whoever he will be, will be a strong advocate for COM in Maine. UNECOM has the wonderful opportunity to be in a state with no competing MD school and has the potential for great medical training opportunities at Maine Med--which is about 20 minutes away (for those of you not familiar with UNECOM). But who does Maine Med train? MD students from Vermont, 2 states away. Frankly, it's embarrassing.

    Maine is a DO friendly state with strong osteopathic roots. I know of at least three osteopathic hospitals that were in existance at one time. I think if the new dean were a pitbull for UNECOMs interests, UNECOM could become one of the strongest COMs.
     
  9. olliemctuffy

    olliemctuffy Member
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    I agree, you know I heard a rumor that UNE was looking into opening an MD school in Portland. Probably not true, but I do think the COM facilities should be moved to the Portland campus.

    The tuition is also the same for 4th year. When I asked what 4th year pays for, they said it doesn't work that way, suggesting that 4th year tuition pays for 1st and 2nd years. I just find it hard to believe that medical ed costs as much per student as sources like the AAMC would like us to believe. How much of the physicians salaries are included in those figures?
     
  10. DragonWell

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    LECOM takes some knocks on these boards, but 25 grand is a lot better than 40.
     
  11. docbill

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    39,000$$$$$$ :smuggrin: :thumbdown:
    That is crazzyyyyyyy

    CCOM and MSUCOM are in the city and have better rotations
     
  12. simpleman

    simpleman Member
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    maybe you should go to WVSOM, where they charge $46,500 for out of state tuition. Tack on the other fees with room and boards per year, it reaches 72,900 a year according to their yellow sheet they gave out during the interviews. Four years, is almost $292,000. This is insance. I think your 39 is better compared to WVSOM, but i am not going to WVSOM just because of the tuition.
     
  13. jonb12997

    jonb12997 I'm a doctor!!
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    yah, i was going to say, I think you're right that OOS tuition at some schools is higher than the $39. We're up there toward the tops, but that's part of going to a private school.

    also, the maine med thing... the UVM/Maine Med connection goes WAY back to before UNECOM started, and then once 1978 rolled around, there was still the whole "no DOs on staff at maine med". That's what it comes from...
     
  14. polynikesdb

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    #13 polynikesdb, Apr 20, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  15. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    I agree, 39 beats 46. But WVSOM is a state school and all state schools charge more for OOS than in state. Do these state schools even have a significant OOS student percentage?
     
  16. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    Doc! I thought this would get your attention!
    Drop me a line and let me know how things are going.
     
  17. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    Wow. I figured it would raise there, too. Obviously I feel the tuition pain of those of you who choose AZCOM.
     
  18. CatsandCradles

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    Well if makes you feel anybetter, I pay 46,000 OOS tution here in West Virginia.



    There are several people here from Pennsylvannia and Maryland who moved to WV to get in state resident status in West Virginia - and then applied and got into the school here.


    At first I thought they were really really weird for doing that - but now I really do have to admire them for planning ahead waaayyy into the future - because they are effectively out of state students paying only 17,000 a year ....and this one girl - who was never a native of West Virginia to begin - with got a scholraship on top OSS too!!!!!


    :(
     
  19. simpleman

    simpleman Member
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    they interview and accept a huge portion of OOS!! I think someone told me that 69% instate and 31% out of state got matriculated last year!!!
     
  20. toothless rufus

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    Is there any real reason for such high tuition?!!
     
  21. medschoolplease

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    Their gross anatomy lab is state of the art. They do not have just one robot pt. but 4, and will be receiving 6 more. They have some pretty cool faculty members, and they need to maintain their low tuition for in-state students. :D
     
  22. CatsandCradles

    CatsandCradles SDN Donor
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    ha!

    dude, don't even get me started:laugh:
     
  23. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    So, would you then agree, that the new dean should actively work to change this? As I said in an earlier post, a state with a major medical center and no competing med school is a hole just waiting to be filled. And UNECOM is just down the road....
     
  24. Inquiringmind24

    Inquiringmind24 "The fact man"
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    Yeah alot of people here at AZCOM are pretty steamed about the tuition increase to 41k. But there's really nothing that can be done about it so we'll just have to suck it and pay :(
     
  25. UNEOSTEO

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    Hey, I know how you guys feel. I graduated from unecom in '05 and remember getting the same letter every year starting 2nd year about how the tuition is "on par" with other medical schools. That's BS! Maybe that's why I decided to go into anesthesia so I can live in a shack instead of living in a cardboard box as a family doc.

    hang in there...there is light at the end of the tunnel.
     
  26. TweetyPie

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  27. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    Thanks for the sympathy :)
    Congrats to both of you on getting through--I always enjoy meeting med school survivors!
     
  28. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    I now see the relevance of your avatar.

    Reminds me of the old joke about owning a sailboat. You can get the same experience by standing in a running shower burning one-hundred dollar bills.
     
  29. Red Beard

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    We got the same letter at COMP a couple weeks ago. After the "minimum possible increase of 5.5%", our tuition will be over $39k next year.

    The DO program is the cash cow of our school, and they are expanding like mad, adding several new programs in the next few years (dentistry, podiatry, optometry, a new building and hospital for the veterinary program, etc. etc.) I am sure the tuition will be well over $40k next year. I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the class size too.
     
  30. Protease

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    I'll be attending UNECOM this Fall, my 1st year, I borrowed my maximum loan amount of 65,720. At this rate, I'll end up owing 250K in loans after 4 years.

    I plan on budgeting carefully, which should help lower my cummulative loans. I'll post in 4 years, letting you know how it turns out.
     
  31. the1doc

    the1doc Member
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    ya'll have nothing to complain about....

    Tuition at CCOM for 07-08 is $42,517. Student Budget is $75,131.
    Many of the students I know are borrowing the maximum because, quite frankly, by the time the tuition, fees, reeheediculous health insurance (another 3 K per year), etc is paid, they don't have that much to live on. CCOM's rotations require you to have your own transportation...though it's great that most of the rotations are in the Chicagoland area, the Chicagoland area is pretty big....and a student can easily rack up 600-800 miles per week getting to and from some of the rotation sites. The money goes fast.

    Add it up, and you can see how a new CCOM student will easily be in debt 300,000 to 400,000 upon graduation (figure in interest rates on unsubsidized, private, and PLUS loans)....and then they give lectures on financial aid as if the STUDENTS are the ones who need help being financially responsible...lol...so the $37 per year I saved from cutting back at Starbucks will really help me in the long run...wait, wait...then they raised my tuition by THREE THOUSAND that year...so they could buy THEIR Starbucks...lol...

    My advice to any prospective med students reading this....it's easy to throw caution to the wind and go where "you'll be most happy"...yet someday, when you think a career in Pediatrics will "make you most happy," you'll have to reconsider, because the money a Pediatrician makes might not be enough to get you out of debt in the next century...
     
  32. jhug

    jhug 1K Member
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    the1..you've to a very interesting point.
    Finances are crazy out of control! Especially when you look at what we will do for the amount we will get paid and the risk we take everyday to do it.
    The biggest kisser for me has been to see the amazing amount of resources at allo schools (mostly state schools) where tuition can be in the low teens...yet, i can't even access journals from home for 40K/yr.
     
  33. olliemctuffy

    olliemctuffy Member
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    Part of low tuition certainly comes from state support, other factors are the age of the institution- which does many things- the older it is, the more alumni and experienced alumni who can donate money, you would hope that as a school ages it is building an endowment which can be used to defray the cost of the education. Another factor is the amount of research grants won by the faculty, alot of money from these grants goes to the school and the grants pay the faculty salaries. Also, if you have a large clinical faculty, some of the money they earn is funneled to the school. Most DO schools have little to nonexistent amounts of any of these, thus they must raise more funds with tuition.

    Now UNECOM is an interesting case, because it could be in some way a state school, if it had leaders willing to put in the effort. Maine has no state med school, and has a larger population than other states that do, such as VT, which is so small they can't even train all of their students in the 3rd and 4th year and have to send them to Maine. UNECOM is almost 30 years old, and hopefully we'll start to get better alumni giving. UNECOM is building a new research facility at the med school and opening a pharm school, this should help attract faculty who have grants. Perhaps UNECOM's biggest weakness is not having many clinical faculty who have direct links to the school, and certainly the lack of an affiliated major medical center hurts alot.
     
  34. jonb12997

    jonb12997 I'm a doctor!!
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    I can definitely agree with that. Correctly me if i'm wrong, but isn't that quite the DO thing though? I know the schools I interviewed at, WVSOM, UHS (KCUMB - whatever), and UNECOM, none of them had a big medical center directly associated. What about the other school?
     
  35. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    Agree completely.
    About the research facility, obviously this is a good thing and I'm certain it will add to the university. However, I think public health research would be far more beneficial. Public health research can be lucrative and Maine has a rural population with, again, NO COMPETING MD OR PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS!! Public health research could tie into the state's public health program which could then provide more political capital for UNECOM.
     
  36. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel In Memory of Riley Jane
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    I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but this is what's so annoying about UNECOM's status quo. Just 20 minutes up the road awaits a big medical center full of Vermont students. UNECOM has the potential to burst out of "quite the DO thing" and position itself as an extraordinary DO school. If a student has the chance to choose between a 25-30K DO school with no big medical center, or UNECOM at ~40K with a big medical center---UNECOM would be a bargain!
     
  37. jonb12997

    jonb12997 I'm a doctor!!
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    Well said!

    The new president of the medical staff at MMC is a DO. They also did add 3 more Southern Maine Rotation sites this year, maybe we'll start to see a change. Will MMC every completely give up their connection to UVM? I doubt it... Will UNECOM students get more rotations there, I definitely see it as a possibility!
     
  38. the1doc

    the1doc Member
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    While I agree that part of the Osteopathic Medical School problem is due to revenue, I'd argue that some of it (in fact a lot more than we'd like to believe) is just poorly managed. The lack of accountability that exists in many of the private osteopathic medical schools produces bloated salaries for administration. This isn't the only mismanagement of your tuition dollars, however. There is a culture of waste that has grown in many osteopathic medical schools. I don't know how many of you had a similar experience, but when I took OMM, I was dismayed to observe the laziness of many in the department. Some of them rarely showed up...others sat around and ate donuts while we, um....palpated....the crazy cranial guru sat in the corner and muttered to himself while he played with a skull. I've often wondered what portion of my tuition went to fund that department. In other words, what portion of my tuition went to pay the salaries of a bunch of lazy docs who didn't teach me anything that I wasn't going to use anyway? If the folks who run our fine schools are really concerned about our future debt (which they're not), they'd get control of the rapidly inflating cost of tuition. It's just going to hurt the school in the long run, when fewer and fewer alumni choose to donate. The "not for profit" title shouldn't fool you...the people getting paid by your tuition dollars ARE making a profit...a NICE profit...
     
  39. jonb12997

    jonb12997 I'm a doctor!!
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    if I remember correctly, didn't our undergrad colleges do basically the same thing to us? i remember getting similar letters when I was in college... (granted it was a lot less money per year, but still...)
     
  40. the1doc

    the1doc Member
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    i think you answered your own question.

    apples and oranges....unless your undergrad institution was raising tuition by a few thousand dollars every year...the idea that tuition must rise at the same rate of inflation is simply not true...not when you are talking about the kind of revenues that they are already generating through tuition.

    i realize we like to think we're special...being med students and all...but there is NOTHING about our education that justifies that kind of disparity in cost increases.
     
  41. theraball

    theraball Panned
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    I keep hearing the same complaints about the high cost of houses. How is a young couple starting a family supposed to afford a $400K house in a middle class neighborhood with good schools? Well, to a great extent, the answer is, they can't.

    Medical schools are expensive because they have rather expensive staff (scientists and physicians), expensive facilities (anatomy labs, histology labs, research labs, libraries), and a large bureaucracy to steer students through a complex four years of courses and clerkships. As someone pointed out above, the lack of endowments funded by wealthy alumni is a big problem.

    Those few fortunate osteopathic schools that receive state funding can charge (actually, are required to charge) a much more reasonable tuition to in-state applicants, but they are free to charge whatever they like to out-of-state applicants and they do tend to charge the very highest tuitions as a result, with a few exceptions (OSUCOM's OOS tuition is not too bad, $36K as I recall).

    Osteopathic schools get fewer research grants and so must fund more of their infrastructure privately. With more research grants, they might be able to acquire scientific equipment and facilities outside of the tuition budget. So rather than just impugn the schools for their greed, we osteopathic students should be pushing for more research. As a profession, osteopathy has traditionally been about practice, not research, but the road to better government support is through research.

    There are several pretty comprehensive avenues for funding one's education. Military and NHS come to mind, and there are also scholarships of various types. Beyond that, if your parents had set aside $5K in a decent performing mutual fund 20 years ago, today it would pay for your entire education or at least a good chunk of it. Sadly, though, most people don't have the means or foresight to invest in their children's future.
     
  42. the1doc

    the1doc Member
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    What is most troublesome is the seeming indifference of so many osteopathic (or future osteopathic) medical students. While it is true that most allopathic schools receive more research funding than osteopathic schools, it does not justify the inefficiency with which so many of our osteopathic schools operate. I believe that many osteopathic schools have recognized the importance of research and are becoming more involved. However, until the revenues are sufficient to cover expenses, the schools need to learn operate within a reasonable budget. $3000 per year tuition increases are simply unjustifiable. That's nearly 10% - 3 times the rate of inflation.

    "Impugn the schools for their greed"...lol...yes, yes, and their inability to run their schools efficiently....but you're right, greed plays into it too.
     
  43. Buckeye(OH)

    Buckeye(OH) 5K+ Member
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    My tuition letter for third year at CCOM says 42.5.
     
  44. group_theory

    group_theory EX-TER-MIN-ATE!'
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    I don't think the problem is strictly with osteopathic schools but with medical schools in general (except state-supported). Of course, some schools have more scholarships available to medical students.

    For example, in the Philly area
    PCOM tuition + fees - $35,298 (2006-2007)
    http://www.pcom.edu/Administration/Administrative_Departments/Bursar_s_Office/do_tuition.html
    Jefferson tuition - $40,701 (2007-2008)
    http://www.jefferson.edu/registrar/tuition.cfm
    Penn's tuition + required fees - $41163 (2006-2007)
    http://www.med.upenn.edu/admiss/financial.html
    Drexel tuition + fees - $39970 (2006-2007)
    http://webcampus.drexelmed.edu/admissions/financialaid.asp
    Temple tuition + fees - PA resident $36,220, $44,248 for non-state resident (2006-2007)
    http://www.temple.edu/bursar/about/tuitionrates.htm


    For Chicago
    CCOM tuition - IL resident $38,211, non-state resident $42,517 (2007-2008)
    http://www.midwestern.edu/content/lc401.asp
    University of Chicago - $35,305 (2007-2008, MS1-MS2 years only)
    http://pritzker.bsd.uchicago.edu/admissions/financialaid/budget.shtml
    University of Illinois Chicago - IL resident $12,354, non-state resident $26,381 (2006-2007)
    http://www.uic.edu/depts/oar/rr/tuition_fees_2006_2007.html
    Northwestern University - $38,613 (2006-2007)
    http://www.northwestern.edu/sfs/feinberg/tuition.html
    Loyola University Chicago - $36,600 (2007-2008)
    http://www.meddean.luc.edu/admissions/finaid.htm
    Rosalind Franklin University Chicago Medical School - $36,740 (2007-2008 estimated)
    http://66.99.255.20/osa/financialaid/0400_2008studentBudgets.cfm
     
  45. kelaskov

    kelaskov Junior Member
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    :thumbup: Well said. A strong dean can make all the difference in the world- if they are not afraid to ruffle some old tired feathers.

    Maine has a problem recruiting and keeping docs, especially in rural areas. I think it would be in the school and the state's best interest to join forces. Only one candidate suggested that approach. Modelling VT's method of retaining docs, by assisting them in med school in exchange for practicing in the state, could be a starting point that would benefit everyone.
     
  46. CatsandCradles

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    Interesting list.
     
  47. kelaskov

    kelaskov Junior Member
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    Publishing salaries online/making them avail. to the public would make schoolsmore accountable. I know UVM publishes all its employees salaries online. Does anyone know of a private school where salary information is made public?

    Unfortunately, I feel as though the finances are managed very poorly at my school. After attending an undergrad institution with an admin. that worked like a well oiled machine, I'm very dissapointed at the lack of accountability and waste that's become more apparent. Unless we get a new dean with a new vision, things are unlikely to change.
     
  48. kelaskov

    kelaskov Junior Member
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    Seems like UNECOM's rising tuition is directly contributing to fewer grads going into primary care.....does anyone know if there is data to suppport this?
     
  49. kelaskov

    kelaskov Junior Member
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  50. kelaskov

    kelaskov Junior Member
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    At this point there's room for any research public health, basic science , etc. The key is quality research/ers. Build the facilities and they will come. Build the facilities in Portland and they will come in droves.

    If UNECOM really wanted to increase it's chance at success, it would put all health sciences together in Portland, and move all the undergrads to the Univeristy campus in Biddeford. This would probably increase the number of qualified applicants, and help recruit more faculty, and would definitely make collaboration easier. It would defnitely increase the likelihood of collaboration with a large medical center. Putting all Health Sciences under one head Dean would help unify the school and save money.
     
  51. jonb12997

    jonb12997 I'm a doctor!!
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    I would like to see this also... I've always wondered why they made the choice to move the PAs up (as recently as ~5 years ago the PAs were at the Bidd campus), without moving the DOs. (probably because of the anatomy & OMM labs that they just built 10 years ago)...

    like a lot of things DO/AOA, I think as "our" generation of DOs get into power, we'll start to see all "these" things start to have more and more changes. Will we see it while we're in school/residency? I REALLY REALLY doubt it, but I think it's something that we could change, we just have to make sure we're involved in the AOA and as school leadership.
     

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