Unfair Classes

[zmkelchn]

I'm wondering if anyone ran into situations of unfair classes/grading at their undergraduate institution. I am currently taking a calc class over the summer, which runs 6-9pm two nights a week. However, our prof is always trying to squeeze as much material in as possible, and we are not given our exams until the end of class, forcing us to stay until as late as 11pm some nights to finish. If you can't stay late, there are no other options, as it does mention in the syllabus that exams may run past 9pm. However, there have been times where I could not stay AND I have 7:30am ochem with a commute, so 6-11pm calc is a little ridiculous when I signed up for a 6-9 and I have a job and morning class. If you can't stay, you give up any points, as has happened to me. I received a very low grade on my last exam, bringing my grade down from a solid B to a D . There is only one exam left in the class, but I'm not sure how to explain this situation to med school admissions. I'm considering contacting math department and informing them because there is not much I can do. I did not schedule in an extra two hours of calc two nights a week, and there is simply no way to do well if you leave when it actually ends.

Any advice or similar situations would be appreciated! I can see staying 15 or maybe 30 min late to take an exam, but two hours that late it over the top.

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[FrkyBgStok]

Um....bummer.

What do you want us to say? Sorry for your luck? Deal with it. It may suck but oh well.

I took ochem I this summer. I switched schedules with a guy so I could take it for 3 weeks. I had class everyday from 10am until 12:30pm with lab from 1pm until 4pm. I then had to work from 5pm until 6:30am everyday. Never once did I post about it on here bitching because it was my problem. My lab TAs and prof both told me I was crazy for working that much but not one person cut me slack, and I am glad they didn't.

I talked to the prof who I am taking biochem from about what I should expect from the class. He said quote "I have never taught biochem before, so I have no idea how much material we are supposed to cover in a semester, so I am going to expect you to know the entire book, in depth." Bummer for me.

The point is either drop the class or man up, but sympathy won't be found here, because every single person on here has been put through similar and/or worse situations. Life is unfair.

 

[bobow98]

can you try to get the class withdrawn? It wouldn't hurt if you only have 1 W on your transcript, as long as you don't get a WF.

Good luck!

PS: don't let people who say "deal with it you big baby" affect you. Be proactive about solving this issue.

 

[MichaelRW]

I'm wondering if anyone ran into situations of unfair classes/grading at their undergraduate institution.

It would be less common to find individuals who haven't. furthermore, 'unfair' is completely subjective and relative to each individual

dud

PS - yes, I have, several times. rise above it. there is always a way if you work hard enough at it. get to know your profs or whatever it takes to get the job done if studying alone isnt gonna cut it. improvise, adapt.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

.......I guess it goes without saying, but yes. The main theme of my post was "deal with it you big baby" as bobow98 so eloquently put it.

 

[CapnCrunch]

How many exams do you have? Typically, classes only have 4 tests so you'd have to endure four awful nights. Stinks, but it was mentioned in the syllabus. I don't think it's going to help complaining this late either, but no harm trying, right? Best of luck and hope you pull out with a better grade!

 

[deleted307836]

Um....bummer.

What do you want us to say? Sorry for your luck? Deal with it. It may suck but oh well.

Wow, what helpful advice.

OP, if you don't think you'll be able to salvage your grade and will end up with a D or something similar, then see what you can do to withdraw from the class. If you have one exam left, you may be able to pull it up some, but it's still a gamble. Also consider if there will be a (helpful) curve at the end of the course (it wouldn't hurt to ask the professor about this). Good luck, that's definitely a though situation.

What I don't understand, though, is why would you leave early and forfeit points on a test? Even if you have a long commute and have to get up early the next morning, I don't see how that could possibly be worth it.

 

[JGL]

I feel like teachers are bound by the time they are given... Try talking to head of the department he shouldnt be allowed to go that much over the time. Good luck.

 

[ohgodidonteven]

You do what you have to in order to claw success from the bowels of life. I locked myself in my room for a straight week to study for my ochem final, coming out for nothing more to eat and ****. Brought myself from a C- to a B+. I visited my TA to rework a scientific poster that I got a 59 (avg was 85) on since my group was unreliable. Went from 26/30 in the class to 9/30.

 

[TFS]

.

 

[PremedGunner]

v

 

[pennstate4life]

bust your ass for the last test. it's hard to blame the prof if you knew what you were getting yourself into and have gotten this far in the class without dropping or withdrawing. it sucks, but you kind of have to do what you need to do for these classes, even if you might have a really rough next day. test >> sleep.

yea sleep is for losers. Real men only sleep when women are involved. You serious need to man up!

 

[dbeast]

I feel like teachers are bound by the time they are given... Try talking to head of the department he shouldnt be allowed to go that much over the time. Good luck.

SDN is the worst place on the internet to complain about classes being hard, and I'd typically jump on the suck it up train, but honestly a teacher going two hours over isn't reasonable. Talk to the dept head.

 

[zmkelchn]

I agree with most of the above posts, however my concern is not the difficulty of the class or sucking it up. I most certainly would not leave an exam in exchange for a few hours of sleep!...however, I have a job as well, so leaving at 9:30 is necessary on some nights to work. I did not schedule work and my research experiments allowing two extra hours after class is over just in case to sit and take exams. I am willing to adapt and do whatever it takes, but most have other important aspects in our lives, such as working to pay for the classes we take and to pay rent. I think it is out of line to force students to stay that long to earn an acceptable grade or be forced to forfeit points. If I had nothing else important going on, I would stay there all night. If I did not work or have other classes, this would not be a problem. Thanks to those that helped. I think I can still pull off a C, but it is too late to take a W.

 

[Hejman]

Appeal to the Dean or Department head for a late withdrawal. Explain your circumstances in detail. Best of luck.

 

[CapnCrunch]

I agree with most of the above posts, however my concern is not the difficulty of the class or sucking it up. I most certainly would not leave an exam in exchange for a few hours of sleep!...however, I have a job as well, so leaving at 9:30 is necessary on some nights to work. I did not schedule work and my research experiments allowing two extra hours after class is over just in case to sit and take exams. I am willing to adapt and do whatever it takes, but most have other important aspects in our lives, such as working to pay for the classes we take and to pay rent. I think it is out of line to force students to stay that long to earn an acceptable grade or be forced to forfeit points. If I had nothing else important going on, I would stay there all night. If I did not work or have other classes, this would not be a problem. Thanks to those that helped. I think I can still pull off a C, but it is too late to take a W.

I'm still a little fuzzy on your situation...

What is the length of this class? (2 nights a week for 3 hours a day for how many weeks)

Do you have to stay after class for only exams?

How do you lose points by not staying? By not finishing the exam?

Was this mentioned clearly in the syllabus?


I've never had a professor extend classes beyond what is listed so this situation is a bit odd to me.

 

[getright]

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP. If a class is scheduled from 6-9, then it should run from 6-9...2 hours over is effing ridiculous. Talk to the department head.

 

[Cosminus]

I'm wondering if anyone ran into situations of unfair classes/grading at their undergraduate institution. I am currently taking a calc class over the summer, which runs 6-9pm two nights a week. However, our prof is always trying to squeeze as much material in as possible, and we are not given our exams until the end of class, forcing us to stay until as late as 11pm some nights to finish. If you can't stay late, there are no other options, as it does mention in the syllabus that exams may run past 9pm. However, there have been times where I could not stay AND I have 7:30am ochem with a commute, so 6-11pm calc is a little ridiculous when I signed up for a 6-9 and I have a job and morning class. If you can't stay, you give up any points, as has happened to me. I received a very low grade on my last exam, bringing my grade down from a solid B to a D . There is only one exam left in the class, but I'm not sure how to explain this situation to med school admissions. I'm considering contacting math department and informing them because there is not much I can do. I did not schedule in an extra two hours of calc two nights a week, and there is simply no way to do well if you leave when it actually ends.

Any advice or similar situations would be appreciated! I can see staying 15 or maybe 30 min late to take an exam, but two hours that late it over the top.

I dont think contacting the math department will do much in your situation. If what you say about the prof giving out exams after class is true ( which I doubt) then you should have realized what you can handle. Ochem, calculus and work in one summer session is obviously a stretch for you. You have to know your limits.
My friend who is the smartest kid I know took all ridiculous science courses last semester to show his intellectual supremacy, he was overworked and burnt out doing avg. in the classes. I on the other hand spread my science classes evenly throughout my college career and i got way better grades while still enjoying my life.

Anybody can lock themselves up in their room and study for three weeks non-stop and be the best, but that sort of self-punishing behavior can be easily avoided. Sure if you take harder classes you impress the med schools. But what's the use of taking a ton of hard classes when you do poorly in all of them? Isn't it better to just be smart and spread them out evenly.

P.S The fact that youre taking ochem and calc ( two BCPM pre-req) during the summer does NOT look good for med schools according to my pre-med advisor. I asked.

 

[Vadoff]

A D won't look pretty, any chance you can drop the class with a W? Maybe you can also petition to have the class graded on a P/F (probably too late).

I would first talk to your professor about it, then the Dean afterwards if you have to. Chances are though if the professor says no, you're out of luck.

If you're too late to drop the class then ... I don't know what to say, just kick the final out of the water and hope for a C. Even if you can explain the D in your apps, it's still going to take a HUGE toll on your gpa which is the first thing an admissions committee sees.

 

[UnclePhil]

Some classes are just plain bad and you just have to wonder what the profs are thinking sometimes. I would talk to the professor about this. Worst class I've taken was an upper level biochem course that was required for chemistry majors. Not only were the topics extremely specialized and difficult (I'm talking averages in the 30s and 40s, in a senior level course, where we're supposedly all supposed to be smart, or at least somewhat good at chemistry... ), the curve was also ridiculous.

As outlined on the syllabus...

+2, 2.5 SD = A-, A
+1, 1.5, 1.75 SD=B-, B, B+
+0.5 SD=C+
mean=C
-0.5 SD=C-
-1 SD = D+ and so on.

Never have I seen a course where you needed 2 standard deviations above the mean to get even an A-. Normally I don't bitch about grades because for as many grade deflating chemistry classes I've taken, I've also taken many general education requirements in english or music where half the class gets As. But for a required course for seniors, statistically, a high percentage of the class simply cannot pass because of this ridiculous grading scheme that (apparently has been around for ages as this professor has been teaching this class forever now). I mean, come on that's simply unreasonable. Never was getting a B more difficult for me in a class and never have I ever seen more rabid students at each others throats as much as I saw in that course. There were only about 30 students and the atmosphere in that class was just absolutely toxic when exams came up.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I dont think contacting the math department will do much in your situation. If what you say about the prof giving out exams after class is true ( which I doubt) then you should have realized what you can handle. Ochem, calculus and work in one summer session is obviously a stretch for you. You have to know your limits.
My friend who is the smartest kid I know took all ridiculous science courses last semester to show his intellectual supremacy, he was overworked and burnt out doing avg. in the classes. I on the other hand spread my science classes evenly throughout my college career and i got way better grades while still enjoying my life.

Anybody can lock themselves up in their room and study for three weeks non-stop and be the best, but that sort of self-punishing behavior can be easily avoided. Sure if you take harder classes you impress the med schools. But what's the use of taking a ton of hard classes when you do poorly in all of them? Isn't it better to just be smart and spread them out evenly.

P.S The fact that youre taking ochem and calc ( two BCPM pre-req) during the summer does NOT look good for med schools according to my pre-med advisor. I asked.

Just remember, premed advisors don't know what they're talking about. If you're good at navigating BS, you might find SDN to be all the advisor you need.

 

[ohgodidonteven]

Never have I seen a course where you needed 2 standard deviations above the mean to get even an A-. Normally I don't bitch about grades because for as many grade deflating chemistry classes I've taken, I've also taken many general education requirements in english or music where half the class gets As.

Most of our gen-ed classes are B- or B with the honors being B+. It is generally considered that one std. dev will be one letter grade, with over 1 to 2 std. dev being in range for an A. The A+'s I've gotten were being I so thoroughly destroyed the exams that there was no question of where I stood (perfect score on the final in chemistry for example). Not as harsh as yours, but I heard the engineers in my school were graded even tougher.

 

[NickNaylor]

 

[GoSpursGo]

SDN is the worst place on the internet to complain about classes being hard, and I'd typically jump on the suck it up train, but honestly a teacher going two hours over isn't reasonable. Talk to the dept head.

If it's in the syllabus that you're given on day one, a teacher can do whatever the heck they want. When they hand you the syllabus, it's on you to decide if you want to play by their rules or figure out another way to do it. "Unfair" would be if they didn't tell you this beforehand.

Sorry, you knew you had a long commute when you got the syllabus, from there it's on you to set your priorities. It doesn't do much good to whine about it now when you were told what you were getting yourself into, but I would see if you can withdraw from the class as well.

 

[zmkelchn]

I'm still a little fuzzy on your situation...

What is the length of this class? (2 nights a week for 3 hours a day for how many weeks)

Do you have to stay after class for only exams?

How do you lose points by not staying? By not finishing the exam?

Was this mentioned clearly in the syllabus?


I've never had a professor extend classes beyond what is listed so this situation is a bit odd to me.

Listed in the syllabus is 6-9pm, two nights per week for 9 weeks. Class itself is usually over within 30min of the indicated time (9:30). The syllabus states you may stay past 9pm for exams. She however will not give exams until 8pm (a 2hr exam) forcing students to stay. If I was just me staying late, it would be my own problem for taking that long, but it's the entire class. If you choose to leave, yes, you will not finish and loose points. No, she can probably get away with that because she often does not lecture past 9:30 and really nothing says you must stay for that (you will just miss material)

I unfortunately don't have much of an argument, even if it is unfair. She can easily say you can leave at 9pm if you work fast, even if that is near impossible. I had a B up until I had to leave early for work, so I was not doing that bad in the class until the 2nd to last exam.

 

[zmkelchn]

I dont think contacting the math department will do much in your situation. If what you say about the prof giving out exams after class is true ( which I doubt) then you should have realized what you can handle. Ochem, calculus and work in one summer session is obviously a stretch for you. You have to know your limits.
My friend who is the smartest kid I know took all ridiculous science courses last semester to show his intellectual supremacy, he was overworked and burnt out doing avg. in the classes. I on the other hand spread my science classes evenly throughout my college career and i got way better grades while still enjoying my life.

Anybody can lock themselves up in their room and study for three weeks non-stop and be the best, but that sort of self-punishing behavior can be easily avoided. Sure if you take harder classes you impress the med schools. But what's the use of taking a ton of hard classes when you do poorly in all of them? Isn't it better to just be smart and spread them out evenly.

P.S The fact that youre taking ochem and calc ( two BCPM pre-req) during the summer does NOT look good for med schools according to my pre-med advisor. I asked.

Thanks for the reply, but they should be the same classes during the summer with the same material. I run NCAA track and XC, so I would like to lighten my load during the semester because of lab times interfering with practice and meets. The issue is not time, it's simply having to leave the class which extends well over the time limits, which I did not plan for.

 

[CapnCrunch]

Listed in the syllabus is 6-9pm, two nights per week for 9 weeks. Class itself is usually over within 30min of the indicated time (9:30). The syllabus states you may stay past 9pm for exams. She however will not give exams until 8pm (a 2hr exam) forcing students to stay. If I was just me staying late, it would be my own problem for taking that long, but it's the entire class. If you choose to leave, yes, you will not finish and loose points. No, she can probably get away with that because she often does not lecture past 9:30 and really nothing says you must stay for that (you will just miss material)

I unfortunately don't have much of an argument, even if it is unfair. She can easily say you can leave at 9pm if you work fast, even if that is near impossible. I had a B up until I had to leave early for work, so I was not doing that bad in the class until the 2nd to last exam.

So it is only 4-5 days at the most that you would have to stay late (11pm), right? What an odd format for a class... I'm not telling you to "suck it up" or "it's not that bad", but I'm sure plenty of students are taking a full load of classes and still attend work or research or classes after a full night of studying for an exam and then the exam itself. Although, you are one extremely busy person!

Work hard and you should be able to pull at least a C. Best of luck!

 

[CapnCrunch]

P.S The fact that youre taking ochem and calc ( two BCPM pre-req) during the summer does NOT look good for med schools according to my pre-med advisor. I asked.

That doesn't hold much weight if any depending on your advisor's qualifications/experience with the process.

Though, most have heard and agree that taking pre-reqs during the summer so you can have a lighter load in during the semester shows that you might not be able to handle a large workload.

The counterpoints are:

1) Are you willing to sacrifice GPA so you can see how well you juggle classes?
2) What else you will be doing during the semester (sports, research, family, taking care of someone, etc...)

I don't care if either is a justification, but obviously, the OP is busy during the semester so explaining that is fine. He/she just needs to do somewhat well in them.

 

[zmkelchn]

So it is only 4-5 days at the most that you would have to stay late (11pm), right? What an odd format for a class... I'm not telling you to "suck it up" or "it's not that bad", but I'm sure plenty of students are taking a full load of classes and still attend work or research or classes after a full night of studying for an exam and then the exam itself. Although, you are one extremely busy person!

Work hard and you should be able to pull at least a C. Best of luck!

Thanks!...yeah oh well only one exam to go then it's out of my way. Yes, it's 5 times till 11 and about 30 min late most other nights, but going to 9:30 is not that bad. It is such a odd format though.

 

[Narmerguy]

SDN is the worst place on the internet to complain about classes being hard, and I'd typically jump on the suck it up train, but honestly a teacher going two hours over isn't reasonable. Talk to the dept head.

Yep. Remember that a lot of the people here are cold, competitive machines. In addition, the internetz is the coolest place to be tough so you're getting a mixture of the two factors making this a rough place to complain or look for sympathy. Only place for safety really is WAMC where some of the softies go to give advice/comfort.

However, I think it's common for us all to experience one, two, or even three professors who handle their classes in a mostly unfair way (though technically legal as gospursgo pointed out). It isn't their obligation to respect their students' time or concerns but I have come to truly appreciate professors who teach their students with respect and consideration--not that they care. I find solace in thinking that everyone goes through it in some form or another so it won't set me back too much.

 

[Marathon Doctor]

[/B]

Thanks for the reply, but they should be the same classes during the summer with the same material. I run NCAA track and XC, so I would like to lighten my load during the semester because of lab times interfering with practice and meets. The issue is not time, it's simply having to leave the class which extends well over the time limits, which I did not plan for.

I run D1 XC and Track too so i understand, but try only to take the labs, not lecture parts, during the summer. If your schedule is really tight during the semester, then talk to your coach to reschedule practice (main workouts early in the morning) because you're a STUDENT first and then an athlete. I mean, unless you're a national caliber 13:30 5k, 28 min 10 k guy, running aint gonna put food on the table.

 

[zmkelchn]

I run D1 XC and Track too so i understand, but try only to take the labs, not lecture parts, during the summer. If your schedule is really tight during the semester, then talk to your coach to reschedule practice (main workouts early in the morning) because you're a STUDENT first and then an athlete. I mean, unless you're a national caliber 13:30 5k, 28 min 10 k guy, running aint gonna put food on the table.

That is an interesting point...although our school does not allow this, or else it would work out great to take just the labs over the summer! My coach is very flexible with times, which makes it much easier. And no, 13:30 is not where I'm at now haha, although I would love to be. Maybe high 14:00s this year for the 5k, which will do nothing for me after school. Great to see some other pre-med athletes on here though!

 

[UnclePhil]

Most of our gen-ed classes are B- or B with the honors being B+. It is generally considered that one std. dev will be one letter grade, with over 1 to 2 std. dev being in range for an A. The A+'s I've gotten were being I so thoroughly destroyed the exams that there was no question of where I stood (perfect score on the final in chemistry for example). Not as harsh as yours, but I heard the engineers in my school were graded even tougher.

For most of our gen ed it was usually B was average. But there were some cases (cough English cough) where literally half the class got As or A-s. Grade inflation in the humanities and social sciences here is really bad. I have only had 2 classes in college where the grading curve was given out at the beginning of classes and we all saw it beforehand. The 2 stdev thing for us was just ridiculous, primarily because it was a senior level course that was required for graduation. To not get an A wasn't such a big deal, its more the fact that the grading made it such that a significant number of students would have to take that class again after their senior year since we couldn't graduate without it.

 

[morning]

You don't have an identical twin who is a math whiz and can stand in for you, do you?

 

[wagmanager]

.

 

[zmkelchn]

Is what the prof doing right ? No. But I don't think you should have handled it by leaving early. Because now you have a poor grade and I don't think explaining it to adocoms will work because some people do get by on 4 hours sleep once in a while. If you had to do with less sleep during test time you should have done it while talking to the department chair to get things straightened out.
However what's done is done so you need to ace this test and just keep in mind that you might be going to bed at 1am

I wish this was the case, but my argument is I needed to leave to go to work. I didn't have much of an option. I would never leave and just take the poor grade just because I was too tired or wanted sleep.

 

[ohgodidonteven]

where literally half the class got As or A-s. Grade inflation in the humanities and social sciences here is really bad. I have only had 2 classes in college where the grading curve was given out at the beginning of classes and we all saw it beforehand. The 2 stdev thing for us was just ridiculous.

I was unfortunately one of those guys who got an A-, I couldn't be arsed to read all the material. All our classes either state the mean, the grading scheme, or we can look up the median grade from previous years on-line. My friend took a math class that required 2stdev. once, but that as it.

 

[wagmanager]

I wish this was the case, but my argument is I needed to leave to go to work. I didn't have much of an option. I would never leave and just take the poor grade just because I was too tired or wanted sleep.

Oh I'm sorry, somehow I thought it was just because you were tired. By all means talk to someone(dept chair0 and see if you can drop the course or something because it will be difficult to explain to adocms.

 

[zmkelchn]

Turns out, after all of this, she is making us re-take the exam because grades were horrendous. However, we have to come in the Friday AFTER the course officially ends if we want to better our grade. I will not complain at all, as I no longer have to settle with a C or D. Still, what an odd class structure.