United States Medical Licensing Unified Examination (USMLUE)

[MDDOUnification]

I have proposed a petition to be submitted to the ACGME/AOA board members regarding the unified licensing pathway.

If anyone who would like to see the USMLE/COMLEX merge for the sake of standardized examination for us all, please sign the petition at the link below:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/USMLUE

Also, please post this on Facebook school class groups.

I am unable to make duplicate posts on SDN, so if anyone could please post the petition link on the Allopathic forums, it would be much appreciated.

Lastly, I am able to edit the content of the petition so if anyone has anything they would like to see added/removed, please let me know so that we can make the best argument to the board members. Even if its too early in the process for a unified licensing pathway, it's never too early to plant this seed (because none of us know what good can come of it and how early it can come).

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[MRSAful Fate]

Interesting idea of merging the two tests. I would be most in favor of requiring everyone to take the USMLE and reducing the COMLEX to an OP&P supplement component rather than creating a new test.

 

[NurWollen]

I have proposed a petition to be submitted to the ACGME/AOA board members regarding the unified licensing pathway.

If anyone who would like to see the USMLE/COMLEX merge for the sake of standardized examination for us all, please sign the petition at the link below:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/USMLUE

Also, please post this on Facebook school class groups.

I am unable to make duplicate posts on SDN, so if anyone could please post the petition link on the Allopathic forums, it would be much appreciated.

Lastly, I am able to edit the content of the petition so if anyone has anything they would like to see added/removed, please let me know so that we can make the best argument to the board members. Even if its too early in the process for a unified licensing pathway, it's never too early to plant this seed (because none of us know what good can come of it and how early it can come).

I say we don't put the cart before the horse. I just want to see the merger get done. Let's not push our luck.

Interesting idea of merging the two tests. I would be most in favor of requiring everyone to take the USMLE and reducing the COMLEX to an OP&P supplement component rather than creating a new test.

Totally off-topic, but OMM, OMT, NMM, OP&P... I think every DO school has a different name for it.

 

[TopTomato]

I say we don't put the cart before the horse. I just want to see the merger get done. Let's not push our luck.



Totally off-topic, but OMM, OMT, NMM, OP&P... I think every DO school has a different name for it.

I was told at PCOM that OMM is not the same as OPP.

 

[MedicineMike]

I say we don't put the cart before the horse. I just want to see the merger get done. Let's not push our luck.



Totally off-topic, but OMM, OMT, NMM, OP&P... I think every DO school has a different name for it.

You can call it whatever you want. It's still bs

 

[BMSc2DO]

Done.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I say we don't put the cart before the horse. I just want to see the merger get done. Let's not push our luck.

Totally off-topic, but OMM, OMT, NMM, OP&P... I think every DO school has a different name for it.

I don't think you're pushing any luck by making a request and having the groups be aware many students are open to one exam. Personally, I'd prefer us all to take the USMLE and COMLEX be reduced to just an OPP exam.

 

[NeuroLAX]

I'm all for adopting the USMLE as the licensing exam for all medical students and reducing COMLEX to OPP only, but USMLUE? No... just, no.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

I was told at PCOM that OMM is not the same as OPP.

To my understanding OP&P equals OMM plus the nebulous "osteopathic philosophy"

 

[TopTomato]

To my understanding OP&P equals OMM plus the nebulous "osteopathic philosophy"

I could be wrong but I thought OPP was OMM only the "light version"

 

[MRSAful Fate]

It stands for osteopathic principals and practice. The principals part refers to the stuff that you sleep through in OMM lab, the practice part is when the fellows wake you up and make you do stuff.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I think everyone wants an unified licensing exam, but if ACGME/AOA doesn't know what to do with MDs wanting AOA residencies yet, we can't think about examinations.

I believe we will get examinations unified, unfortunately not early enough for us to enjoy though :-( maybe our unborn kids.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm all for adopting the USMLE as the licensing exam for all medical students and reducing COMLEX to OPP only, but USMLUE? No... just, no.

I know what you mean because I dislike how it sounds, but I don't think we'd necessarily end up with that name. It's more about the spirit of a unified exam.

 

[NeuroLAX]

I know what you mean because I dislike how it sounds, but I don't think we'd necessarily end up with that name. It's more about the spirit of a unified exam.

If there's to be any spirit of anything it should be the spirit of preparing all medical students in the US to take the USMLE, i.e. unified education standards.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

If there's to be any spirit of anything it should be the spirit of preparing all medical students in the US to take the USMLE, i.e. unified education standards.

You mean all medical schools under one accrediting body? (i.e. LUCOM and Larkins wouldn't exist?)

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

If there's to be any spirit of anything it should be the spirit of preparing all medical students in the US to take the USMLE, i.e. unified education standards.

inb4 someone says that the usmle is an arbitrary standard.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You mean all medical schools under one accrediting body? (i.e. LUCOM and Larkins wouldn't exist?)

If that's what it took to get rid of LUCOM and Larkin, I'd support it.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If there's to be any spirit of anything it should be the spirit of preparing all medical students in the US to take the USMLE, i.e. unified education standards.

I agree that's the preferable scenario, but I also think this petition is trying to say that too but avoiding saying it too directly.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I agree that's the preferable scenario, but I also think this petition is trying to say that too but avoiding saying it too directly.

I think that once we hit unifying licensure exams, it'll be a point of no return. Universal residencies, universal exams take away any purpose for having two accrediting bodies. What'll happen is that the major accrediting bodies will just have DO board members.

Do I feel the DO initials will change? No. But I do feel that the merging will not stop with residencies. and I do hope it doesn't, if it means having higher standards for clinical rotations and better funding for research.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You mean all medical schools under one accrediting body? (i.e. LUCOM and Larkins wouldn't exist?)

Even ignoring the existence of those two schools, a lot of DO schools have enormous issues. Whether they be NYCOM which has an unrealistic remediation policy and enormous class size, LMU & WCU who both obtained accreditation after barely graduating 75% of their starting class, or VCOM opening up shakes in the middle of nowhere with no sustainable source of rotations, COCA has failed to uphold the credibility of osteopathic medicine.

COCA has and will never care about students the way the LCME does. You don't have a student area? Probation! Not enough grants being filed to pay for things and not increase tuition? Probation! Having an issue getting a certain amount of passing scores? Probation!

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Even ignoring the existence of those two schools, a lot of DO schools have enormous issues. Whether they be NYCOM which has an unrealistic remediation policy and enormous class size, LMU & WCU who both obtained accreditation after barely graduating 75% of their starting class, or VCOM opening up shakes in the middle of nowhere with no sustainable source of rotations, COCA has failed to uphold the credibility of osteopathic medicine.

COCA has and will never care about students the way the LCME does. You don't have a student area? Probation! Not enough grants being filed to pay for things and not increase tuition? Probation! Having an issue getting a certain amount of passing scores? Probation!

Not putting OMM as an elective? Probation!

But really, you're absolutely right. I have yet to see COCA put any school under probation. They are just accrediting these random schools, but letting them do anything and everything they feel like doing with the student body.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I think that once we hit unifying licensure exams, it'll be a point of no return. Universal residencies, universal exams take away any purpose for having two accrediting bodies. What'll happen is that the major accrediting bodies will just have DO board members.

Do I feel the DO initials will change? No. But I do feel that the merging will not stop with residencies. and I do hope it doesn't, if it means having higher standards for clinical rotations and better funding for research.

Well, there's a benefit to the government having two accrediting bodies, which is that the standards to get a DO school are lower and they produce more primary care physicians.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think that once we hit unifying licensure exams, it'll be a point of no return. Universal residencies, universal exams take away any purpose for having two accrediting bodies. What'll happen is that the major accrediting bodies will just have DO board members.

Do I feel the DO initials will change? No. But I do feel that the merging will not stop with residencies. and I do hope it doesn't, if it means having higher standards for clinical rotations and better funding for research.

And surprisingly you'll have a lot of DO and DO advocates like Gevitz claiming that the DO identity is inherently one that prospers in an impoverished desert as opposed to near a fountain of experience. As long as people who hold the wrong opinions hold power, and unfortunately due to the inherent nature of the AOA as a semi-hereditary theocracy there will always be a loud voice for the crazies.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well, there's a benefit to the government having two accrediting bodies, which is that the standards to get a DO school are lower and they produce more primary care physicians.

Murica!

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Well, there's a benefit to the government having two accrediting bodies, which is that the standards to get a DO school are lower and they produce more primary care physicians.

There's a simple method the government could implement without needing DOs to fill primary care gaps: pay PCP's better through higher wage and reimbursements. If Peds, Psychs, and FP's were paid out at 200k minimum, you'll see more people open to the idea.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

There's a simple method the government could implement without needing DOs to fill primary care gaps: pay PCP's better through higher wage and reimbursements. If Peds, Psychs, and FP's were paid out at 200k minimum, you'll see more people open to the idea.

Between 2 separate bodies and paying more I think the choice is clear for the government.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

There's a simple method the government could implement without needing DOs to fill primary care gaps: pay PCP's better through higher wage and reimbursements. If Peds, Psychs, and FP's were paid out at 200k minimum, you'll see more people open to the idea.

Honestly the way we select medical school students is a contributing factor here. We're not selecting people who want to be generalists, we're selecting people who have made a profession out of learning and being specialized, er rather compartmentalized. We're not selecting people doctors, we're selecting people who largely have no commitments to any form of helping.

Even if psych were to pay 500k, most would still avoid it because they don't want to be in a field where you need to understand people as diverse beings that have in someways broken down due to multiple factors. They want to be in a field they consider real medicine where A causes B is cured by C.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Honestly the way we select medical school students is a contributing factor here. We're not selecting people who want to be generalists, we're selecting people who have made a profession out of learning and being specialized, er rather compartmentalized. We're not selecting people doctors, we're selecting people who largely have no commitments to any form of helping.

Even if psych were to pay 500k, most would still avoid it because they don't want to be in a field where you need to understand people as diverse beings that have in someways broken down due to multiple factors. They want to be in a field they consider real medicine where A causes B is cured by C.

I agree. That's why certain fields, no matter how scientifically unappealing it could be, are competitive to get into because of the $$$ more than anything else.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I agree. That's why certain fields, no matter how scientifically unappealing it could be, are competitive to get into because of the $$$ more than anything else.

Money, personality, no valid alternatives, etc.

A lot of premeds and medical students probably would have been happier doing research professional. They however chose medicine because they know they want to at least have what they had growing up. And in my opinion it's a shame that the world is like that, where we need to sacrifice what makes us truly happy just so that we can use money to help us adjust to where we are not.

But enough of my idealism.

 

[NurWollen]

I agree. That's why certain fields, no matter how scientifically unappealing it could be, are competitive to get into because of the $$$ more than anything else.

This is kind of off-topic, but am I the only one who thinks that if podiatry were an MD/DO specialty rather than its own profession, it would be crazy competitive? Good lifestyle, you get to do surgery after just a three-year residency, and pays better than at least half of all medical specialties. If you throw in the MD/DO title that everyone cares way too much about, then it would be the perfect storm.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This is kind of off-topic, but am I the only one who thinks that if podiatry were an MD/DO specialty rather than its own profession, it would be crazy competitive? Good lifestyle, you get to do surgery after just a three-year residency, and pays better than at least half of all medical specialties. If you throw in the MD/DO title that everyone cares way too much about, then it would be the perfect storm.

Maybe, but chances are not really. Most people don't want to be orthopedic surgeons and most people don't want to deal with feet. Likewise a whole bunch of pod students who actually want to do that will never have the chance because medical school is a lot more competitive.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Maybe, but chances are not really. Most people don't want to be orthopedic surgeons and most people don't want to deal with feet. Likewise a whole bunch of pod students who actually want to do that will never have the chance because medical school is a lot more competitive.

I know the applicant pools are people with very low MCAT scores but isn't the GPA comparable to DO entrance?

 

[BMSc2DO]

13 signatures? come on now.. sign this

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I know the applicant pools are people with very low MCAT scores but isn't the GPA comparable to DO entrance?

No. We're talking 3.2/22 v.s 3.5/27.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

No. We're talking 3.2/22 v.s 3.5/27.

hmmm I see what you mean. 3.2 is respectable though, since college science courses have varying degrees of difficulty depending on the school/professor.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

hmmm I see what you mean. 3.2 is respectable though, since college science courses have varying degrees of difficulty depending on the school/professor.

I mean it's not a horrible gpa in any right, but it also isn't a great one. I don't think it would have been extremely laborious to manage a 3.2 gpa, much less than what I put in for my gpa.

But different students exist I suppose. Where I found classes easy to overcome in minutes they took hous. Conversely the same likely exists for math where I needed to probably spend 3 hours stating at hwk before differentiation finally clicked.

 

[MDDOUnification]

Don't be shy guys. You'll be surprised how much of an effect in changing times like these, casting your vote has. It takes just a quick minute. 100+ views and less than 100 votes? Support the exam unification! Let's help pave the way for a more efficient pathway for examination!

 

[Mehd School]

Maybe, but chances are not really. Most people don't want to be orthopedic surgeons and most people don't want to deal with feet. Likewise a whole bunch of pod students who actually want to do that will never have the chance because medical school is a lot more competitive.

You think people want to deal with schlongs all day? Podiatry as a medical specialty would be a poor man's urology. A good blend of medicine and surgery as well as good lifestyle and pay. It would be competitive in no time.

 

[Mehd School]

hmmm I see what you mean. 3.2 is respectable though, since college science courses have varying degrees of difficulty depending on the school/professor.

It's really not, and in my opinion a 3.5 for DO schools isn't respectable either. With retakes, DO schools should have the same GPA stats as MD schools, at the very least. I raised my sGPA from a 3.2 to a 3.6 in three semesters. Easy mode.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You think people want to deal with schlongs all day? Podiatry as a medical specialty would be a poor man's urology. A good blend of medicine and surgery as well as good lifestyle and pay. It would be competitive in no time.

I pretend that Urology is a result of poor progression through Freud's developmental stages.....


Lol. Honestly it think you're right though.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It's really not, and in my opinion a 3.5 for DO schools isn't respectable either. With retakes, DO schools should have the same GPA stats as MD schools, at the very least. I raised my sGPA from a 3.2 to a 3.6 in three semesters. Easy mode.

Pretty much, I don't think getting a 3.5 is difficult at all, at least at my college.

Some schools are truly deflating schools.

 

[Mehd School]

Pretty much, I don't think getting a 3.5 is difficult at all, at least at my college.

Some schools are truly deflating schools.

My undergrad was a freaking battlefield. I graduated with honors and in the top 10% of my major (bio) with a 3.3 (3.5/3.6 for DO) and pretty much all of us went on to medical/dental/pharm etc school. But retaking those classes and getting A's almost felt like cheating. And thank god AACOMAS doesn't factor in math (although I crushed math once I matured as a student)

edit: This isn't to say I'm not grateful for grade replacement. It's a large reason why I had such a successful application cycle. What I am saying is that it is incredibly easy to rocket your gpa in no time. Schools like Pikeville and WCU that push out 3.2-3.3 averages should really be 3.6-3.7 averages in my ideal world.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It's really not, and in my opinion a 3.5 for DO schools isn't respectable either. With retakes, DO schools should have the same GPA stats as MD schools, at the very least. I raised my sGPA from a 3.2 to a 3.6 in three semesters. Easy mode.

I hope this is sarcasm because this is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted on this site. Have you ever tried to be outside your bubble?

 

[Mehd School]

I hope this is sarcasm because this is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted on this site. Have you ever tried to be outside your bubble?

You've been here for over a year. I guarantee that isn't the dumbest thing you've read here. I was just reading about an M2 wanting to cath himself for step 1.

 

[GUH]

This is kind of off-topic, but am I the only one who thinks that if podiatry were an MD/DO specialty rather than its own profession, it would be crazy competitive? Good lifestyle, you get to do surgery after just a three-year residency, and pays better than at least half of all medical specialties. If you throw in the MD/DO title that everyone cares way too much about, then it would be the perfect storm.

Have you talked with many current DPM students? It's not easy to land a residency in the Podiatry world. The three-year-to-surgery path is only open to a select few - lucrative surgery slots are even harder for DPMs to land than for DOs.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Have you talked with many current DPM students? It's not easy to land a residency in the Podiatry world. The three-year-to-surgery path is only open to a select few - lucrative surgery slots are even harder for DPMs to land than for DOs.

I thought all podiatrists were required to have a residency which trains them as a surgeon. If it is that way, it can't be that hard to get into some residency.

 

[NurWollen]

Have you talked with many current DPM students? It's not easy to land a residency in the Podiatry world. The three-year-to-surgery path is only open to a select few - lucrative surgery slots are even harder for DPMs to land than for DOs.

I thought all podiatrists were required to have a residency which trains them as a surgeon. If it is that way, it can't be that hard to get into some residency.

What my pod friends have told me is that all pod residencies are now surgically-oriented and that there are currently only .85 pgy-1 spots for every pod grad. The DPM accreditors however have a strict cap on new schools and on class-size expansion and new residencies are being created.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What my pod friends have told me is that all pod residencies are now surgically-oriented and that there are currently only .85 pgy-1 spots for every pod grad. The DPM accreditors however have a strict cap on new schools and on class-size expansion and new residencies are being created.

Not to talk down on them or anything. But 85% match rate against podiatrists? The odds don't seem all that bad.

 

[Dharma]

Well this thread sure veered off course into the land of stinky dead horses! They must be so mushy at this point! Ew!

 

[NontradCA]

It's really not, and in my opinion a 3.5 for DO schools isn't respectable either. With retakes, DO schools should have the same GPA stats as MD schools, at the very least. I raised my sGPA from a 3.2 to a 3.6 in three semesters. Easy mode.

Haha. It's so easy to say raise the standards once you're in. Who cares what GPA or MCAT scores are related to MD schools?