Unity

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
LadyHalcyon

LadyHalcyon

Full Member
Verified Member
5+ Year Member
Psychologist
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
995
Reaction score
634
As a profession we NEED to unite. Pharmacy is basically done for, which is very scary. We need psychologists who are properly trained, both from a CBT perspective and a psychodynamic one. This two camps thing is ridiculous. Unity, not division.
Members don't see this ad.
 
The CBT/dynamic division is largely academic, and has really nothing to do about our lack of lobbying power as a profession. The lack if funds available from which to lobby is the issue. Psychologists are cheap and shortsighted. Their apathy at the state and national level in terms of professional membership is their choice, and it's what leads to our downfall. These are all self-inflicted wounds that have nothing to do with therapy orientation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
WisNeuro said:
The CBT/dynamic division is largely academic, and has really nothing to do about our lack of lobbying power as a profession. The lack if funds available from which to lobby is the issue. Psychologists are cheap and shortsighted. Their apathy at the state and national level in terms of professional membership is their choice, and it's what leads to our downfall. These are all self-inflicted wounds that have nothing to do with therapy orientation.
Click to expand...
This.

The 'divide' is not about the theories (you can re-frame major concepts from one into the words of another without much work). This is an issue defined by the research/academic divide. That is the real issue and it is where we lose sight of what matters. Lobbying effectively to protect scope and increase reimbursement for services is what matters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Physicians may fight w each other, but they are largely a united front. Same for nursing. What does psychology do...circle the wagons, fire inward, and then the mid-levels and para-professionals pick over our dead bodies to expand their scopes of practice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
WisNeuro said:
The lack if funds available from which to lobby is the issue. Psychologists are cheap and shortsighted. Their apathy at the state and national level in terms of professional membership is their choice, and it's what leads to our downfall. These are all self-inflicted wounds that have nothing to do with therapy orientation.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. This is partially self-inflicted the individual level and partially at APA level. For profit grads with huge student loans will not toss extra money at APA. The the percentage of lower paid psychologists with huge student loans, the more the lack of lobbying funds will increase. APA shot themselves is the foot by accrediting these schools and pushing out grads in huge debt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Sanman said:
Yes and no. This is partially self-inflicted the individual level and partially at APA level. For profit grads with huge student loans will not toss extra money at APA. The the percentage of lower paid psychologists with huge student loans, the more the lack of lobbying funds will increase. APA shot themselves is the foot by accrediting these schools and pushing out grads in huge debt.
Click to expand...

The profession had lobbying difficulties well before the ubiquity of diploma mills. Also, the trend towards apathy and lack of membership in state and national psych associations with lobbying arms does not seem to discriminate between degree types. At least according to the latest surveys we reviewed at our state council meetings. Psychologists like to complain about things, without ever personally doing something about it, or putting some skin in the game. It's not necessarily just our profession, other orgs are also experiencing declining membership, they just have historically had effective lobbying arms, while we never really have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
WisNeuro said:
The profession had lobbying difficulties well before the ubiquity of diploma mills. Also, the trend towards apathy and lack of membership in state and national psych associations with lobbying arms does not seem to discriminate between degree types. At least according to the latest surveys we reviewed at our state council meetings. Psychologists like to complain about things, without ever personally doing something about it, or putting some skin in the game. It's not necessarily just our profession, other orgs are also experiencing declining membership, they just have historically had effective lobbying arms, while we never really have.
Click to expand...

Not saying that it is the only cause. However, from the consumer side of it, I am sure older members are declining to participate due to general attrition and many of the younger members I speak to are struggling with debt. We aren't the only profession that has saddled members with large loans. It is a widespread issue and one that I do feel is contributing to apathy overall. Lack of money and time (needing a side hustle) mean that professional dues often take a back seat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sanman said:
Not saying that it is the only cause. However, from the consumer side of it, I am sure older members are declining to participate due to general attrition and many of the younger members I speak to are struggling with debt. We aren't the only profession that has saddled members with large loans. It is a widespread issue and one that I do feel is contributing to apathy overall. Lack of money and time (needing a side hustle) mean that professional dues often take a back seat.
Click to expand...

I get the sentiment, but we actually have internal data on this. At least in our state, there doesn't seem to be a proportionally corrected divide in who chooses to get membership by degree type. I would concede that the debt issue may be a small issue, but definitely a small one. Additionally, we even have data that people who have CE budgets from their jobs, which will pay for membership, still do not seek membership in organizations. I have colleagues who spend down their accounts at the end of the year in the hundreds of dollars on books they only tangentially need, but will not join APA or our state association. It's apathy, pure and simple. A willful ignorance that their inaction, compounded with many other likeminded souls, negatively impacts the field's ability to lobby effectively at the state and national level.
 
WisNeuro said:
I get the sentiment, but we actually have internal data on this. At least in our state, there doesn't seem to be a proportionally corrected divide in who chooses to get membership by degree type. I would concede that the debt issue may be a small issue, but definitely a small one. Additionally, we even have data that people who have CE budgets from their jobs, which will pay for membership, still do not seek membership in organizations. I have colleagues who spend down their accounts at the end of the year in the hundreds of dollars on books they only tangentially need, but will not join APA or our state association. It's apathy, pure and simple. A willful ignorance that their inaction, compounded with many other likeminded souls, negatively impacts the field's ability to lobby effectively at the state and national level.
Click to expand...


Curious about what data you have. Remember degree type is not always correlated with debt. Not all PhDs are free and that does not include college or other previous educational debt.

I was just weighing the renewal of my membership with my state psych assoc and dues are owed by the end of the month. So, this may be hitting a nerve with me.
 
Sanman said:
Curious about what data you have. Remember degree type is not always correlated with debt. Not all PhDs are free and that does not include college or other previous educational debt.

I was just weighing the renewal of my membership with my state psych assoc and dues are owed by the end of the month. So, this may be hitting a nerve with me.
Click to expand...

We don't have debt level data, just basic demo stats and degree type. As far as weighing the dues for the state association, if they do any state level lobbying, I would strongly urge you to renew. We've done a ton of work in the last two years that have direct financial impacts on psychologists at the state level, and those membership fees are the reason we have a lobbyist at the state capitol to help us do that effectively in our state. That is in addition to a ton of work we do at the national level and being abel to travel to DC for several important meetings with Reps. I would hope your state is also involved in state and national level lobbying.
 
WisNeuro said:
We don't have debt level data, just basic demo stats and degree type. As far as weighing the dues for the state association, if they do any state level lobbying, I would strongly urge you to renew. We've done a ton of work in the last two years that have direct financial impacts on psychologists at the state level, and those membership fees are the reason we have a lobbyist at the state capitol to help us do that effectively in our state. That is in addition to a ton of work we do at the national level and being abel to travel to DC for several important meetings with Reps. I would hope your state is also involved in state and national level lobbying.
Click to expand...

Not as active as my previous state and not as active in the issues that affect me. I am really struggling to see the value sometimes.
 
Sanman said:
Not as active as my previous state and not as active in the issues that affect me. I am really struggling to see the value sometimes.
Click to expand...

There is one, usually easy, way to resolve that. Join your executive/governing board. If you don't have the time, make your preferences known. I'd also look into what perks members get. In our state, the discount for liability insurance and the discount for our sponsored CE activities more than make up membership costs. If your association does not do these types of things, you should definitely bring it to their attention.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I joined a silly psychology meme group on social media and I was astounded by how many people there are psychodynamic and hate CBT.
 
WisNeuro said:
There is one, usually easy, way to resolve that. Join your executive/governing board. If you don't have the time, make your preferences known. I'd also look into what perks members get. In our state, the discount for liability insurance and the discount for our sponsored CE activities more than make up membership costs. If your association does not do these types of things, you should definitely bring it to their attention.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no time to join that. I already took on some VA and specialty area involvement this year. Plus, I like to make time for my actual life and family. The discounts on CE are the reason I have kept the membership in the past. However, it is making less sense for that reason due to the credits I am able to get for CEs through the VA right now. Plus I finished my CE recs early this time around and won't need much of anything next year. I may cut the membership for a year and save myself the $350.
 
Anecdotally I know a lot of people who dropped APA membership when the torture documents came out.

I think part of what makes it really hard for our field is that our national organization and its divisions represent a heterogeneous array of professionals, including researchers, policymakers, educators, practitioners, and others / combinations of these. You're not going to have this problem to the same extent in professional organizations that represent more homogeneous groups of professionals.

I have to admit that I also struggle to find the value as a member at times, and often don't know whether my dues are targeted effectively (in a selfish, professional sense). Even within the forensics sub-field, the heterogeneity and broad focus of our organizations is an issue, especially since research seems to get the bulk of the focus/money. I'm all for supporting research relevant to my field, but I have to say that the research I get from Law & Human Beh - as fascinating as it is - is not consistently, or even frequently, relevant or useful to me professionally. So if the research and headline conference topics aren't directly relevant, and the organization is not effectively lobbying on my behalf (e.g. blocking the creep of mid-level practitioners doing all manner of forensic evaluations)... what am I paying for? I do not have time to join the leadership of this organization, nor would I be an attractive candidate as it is so research-oriented. I am still a member. But the apathy is real.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I am a member of APS and my state of residence psych association. That is all. I let my APA lapse in 2016. Voting with your feet, I suppose? I know this is controversial, but I dont know that they are effective at advocating for/addressing: 1.) Science based practice/advancement of the profession. 2.) Other glaring healthcare system-related issues that relate to a long-term ability to advance psychological science (for healthcare and otherwise) in the way that is smart, realistic, and/or sustainable.

I am not really on the "primary care is the future of psychology" bandwagon. And I am not really interested in how psychology can be more social justice-oriented. Some of the latter stuff makes me rolls my eyes, but that's just me cause I guess my chosen profession doesn't really have much influence on nourishing my moral and political beliefs? But again, that's just me.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Sanman said:
Not as active as my previous state and not as active in the issues that affect me. I am really struggling to see the value sometimes.
Click to expand...
Same. I used to do the lobbying days with the state association and i’d do talks about how to best serve/assist the legislators as a knowledge expert...but I struggled to see the value. Too small of a represented group for most legislators to care....and it showed by the low level aides that would take the mtgs. I always took the republican reps bc I spoke their language...forked tongue and all. ;)

I went back to using personal connections, which led to 1:1 talks over scotch about the issues I cared about, and i’d throw in my 2 cents if there was a specific piece of legislation coming through that impacted psychologists, otherwise it was my personal agenda.

Any guess which approach was more effective?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I stopped supporting APA years ago bc I felt they were largely ineffective and the various committees were just seat swaps, so it was nearly impossible to get on one. I finally just gave up. I still support D40 and D22, but not APA or their PAC.

Only within the past year or so have I seen any useful lobbying, which I attributed to mistly Tony Puentes and a couple rockstar D22 leaders. Between the glacial pace of responses that have been a hallmark of APA for decades and the lack of focus on things I actually care about, i’d rather support the orgs that support the issues I care about.

This social justice slant and integrating into primary care are both problematic in my view. The torture stuff was just another poorly handled issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Therapist4Chnge said:
I stopped supporting APA years ago bc I felt they were largely ineffective and the various committees were just seat swaps, so it was nearly impossible to get on one. I finally just gave up. I still support D40 and D22, but not APA or their PAC.

Only within the past year or so have I seen any useful lobbying, which I attributed to mistly Tony Puentes and a couple rockstar D22 leaders. Between the glacial pace of responses that have been a hallmark of APA for decades and the lack of focus on things I actually care about, i’d rather support the orgs that support the issues I care about.

This social justice slant and integrating into primary care are both problematic in my view. The torture stuff was just another poorly handled issue.
Click to expand...
Curious why you view primary care integration as problematic? I've been having some thoughts about that since I left PCMHI.
 
Psycycle said:
Curious why you view primary care integration as problematic? I've been having some thoughts about that since I left PCMHI.
Click to expand...

Because there is nothing there than cannot be done by a LCSW (or other master level clinician) who has hasn't had appropriate exposure and/or training in (behaviorally-based) psychotherapy and medical social work. And there are many. There are also many who haven't of course...but they shouldn't be hired for such roles.

The the top things for PCMHI were 1.) Knowing when you need to refer to someone who can further explore and assess them. 2.) Being able to do very basic "counseling" for anxiety, depression, MI. 3.) Know when not to "treat" something and just make empathetic statements and/or referrals.
This is not a "top of your license" function for a psychologist. It is, ironically, what I always thought mid-level providers were for???

I have said numerous times on here that I probably did things "differently" as a formally trained Clinical Health Psychologist in (VA) PCMHI...but that doesn't mean I did it any better, necessarily.

I wasn't seeing zebras and cases didn't last last long. Any zebras I may have encountered were not going to be formally diagnosed, assessed/explored, followed, further assessed, or managed by me.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Therapist4Chnge said:
I stopped supporting APA years ago bc I felt they were largely ineffective and the various committees were just seat swaps, so it was nearly impossible to get on one. I finally just gave up. I still support D40 and D22, but not APA or their PAC.

Only within the past year or so have I seen any useful lobbying, which I attributed to mistly Tony Puentes and a couple rockstar D22 leaders. Between the glacial pace of responses that have been a hallmark of APA for decades and the lack of focus on things I actually care about, i’d rather support the orgs that support the issues I care about.

This social justice slant and integrating into primary care are both problematic in my view. The torture stuff was just another poorly handled issue.
Click to expand...

After the NFL special audit and div 22/abrp doing jack squat, I am completely disillusioned with rehabilitation psych professional organizations.
 
erg923 said:
Because there is nothing there than cannot be done by a LCSW (or other master level clinician) who has hasn't had appropriate exposure and/or training in (behaviorally-based) psychotherapy and medical social work.
Click to expand...
That’s the big one, but there are others. If the job is open to LCSW, LPC, and Ph.D./Psy.D...that’s not a job we should take let alone advocate to have more of moving forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Therapist4Chnge said:
I must have missed this. Admittedly, I’m not very active on the D22 or D40 listservs anymore, so I likely missed the issue.
Click to expand...

It’s one of the biggest scandals in psychology and no one is talking about it!

Last year the federal courts called for an audit after discovering multiple instances of malingering in the nfl settlement. Outright coaching caught on f’ing text messages. The oral examiner coordinator of ABRP was the only specifically named. The audit says she engaged in coaching and billing more hours than existed in a day. This person remains on the ABRP board.

IMO: that she remains in the board is crazy. That she still has a board certification is crazy. She should not have a license. That abrp has ignored this demonstrates the board’s stated goals are puffery. It’s not about quality at all.

 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If anyone wants to know why reimbursement continues to fall and we continue to lose ground, this thread is a great example of one of the issues. Just like I said, either the apathy to do something directly, or the apathy or downright antipathy towards our leading orgs. At this point our wounds are all self-imposed.
 
.
WisNeuro said:
If anyone wants to know why reimbursement continues to fall and we continue to lose ground, this thread is a great example of one of the issues. Just like I said, either the apathy to do something directly, or the apathy or downright antipathy towards our leading orgs. At this point our wounds are all self-imposed.
Click to expand...

Can everyone here even agree on what reimbursements to fight for? I'm not hearing a focused message anywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sanman said:
Can everyone here even agree on what reimbursements to fight for? I'm not hearing a focused message anywhere.
Click to expand...

I can assure you that APAs lobbying interests are fighting whenever CMS motions come up for reimbursement changes. Most recently it was the testing codes, for which the original motion was for approximately a 35% cut in reimbursement. When CMS decides to redo the therapy codes, they'll be there too. There are some state level things happening too, but they'll be unique to your state. We just had a big one involving provider taxes in our jurisdiction. You can do something about it, or sit on your lawn and yell at the kids.
 
Challenge: Match my contributions to professional organizations over the next year. You can choose the organization, but you have to match the amount I send. I will offer photo proof via PMs to participants.

Who is game?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
PsyDr said:
Challenge: Match my contributions over the next year. You can choose the organization, but you have to match the amount I send.

Who is game?
Click to expand...

If I wasn't paying college tuition levels of money to send my kid to daycare, I'd be game. I'll have to settle for my contributions at the state and APA level for now. Do the hours I spend on my state's governing council count as "contributions?" :)
 
WisNeuro said:
If I wasn't paying college tuition levels of money to send my kid to daycare, I'd be game. I'll have to settle for my contributions at the state and APA level for now. Do the hours I spend on my state's governing council count as "contributions?" :)
Click to expand...

State and APA level contributions count. You are free to choose where you want to contribute. I'll also take matching time volunteering towards the advancement of the trade.
 
PsyDr said:
State and APA level contributions count. You are free to choose where you want to contribute. I'll also take matching time volunteering towards the advancement of the trade.
Click to expand...
The time I spend far outpaces the money I contribute. I currently sit on the payor committee, GC, help out with legislative stuff, and am helping to revamp our CE system.
 
erg923 said:
Because there is nothing there than cannot be done by a LCSW (or other master level clinician) who has hasn't had appropriate exposure and/or training in (behaviorally-based) psychotherapy and medical social work. And there are many. There are also many who haven't of course...but they shouldn't be hired for such roles.

The the top things for PCMHI were 1.) Knowing when you need to refer to someone who can further explore and assess them. 2.) Being able to do very basic "counseling" for anxiety, depression, MI. 3.) Know when not to "treat" something and just make empathetic statements and/or referrals.
This is not a "top of your license" function for a psychologist. It is, ironically, what I always thought mid-level providers were for???

I have said numerous times on here that I probably did things "differently" as a formally trained Clinical Health Psychologist in (VA) PCMHI...but that doesn't mean I did it any better, necessarily.

I wasn't seeing zebras and cases didn't last last long. Any zebras I may have encountered were not going to be formally diagnosed, assessed/explored, followed, further assessed, or managed by me.
Click to expand...

That's a really interesting point and one that I hadn't considered (I used to work part time in PCMHI in the VA). Our skills seem pretty needed at least when it comes to cognitive assessment. Sure we only do a screen but we have to figure out how to interpret it and what the referral question to neuropsych would be.
 
WisNeuro said:
If anyone wants to know why reimbursement continues to fall and we continue to lose ground, this thread is a great example of one of the issues. Just like I said, either the apathy to do something directly, or the apathy or downright antipathy towards our leading orgs. At this point our wounds are all self-imposed.
Click to expand...
This thread is making me worry going the PhD route. Should I be avoiding getting a PhD and going a different route ?
 
BorderlineQueen said:
This thread is making me worry going the PhD route. Should I be avoiding getting a PhD and going a different route ?
Click to expand...

That's a pretty personal decision, you have to do what makes you happy and keeps you fed. I still enjoy the neuro work, but honestly, if I were in my late teens/early 20s now, I'd be choosing a different route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
WisNeuro said:
That's a pretty personal decision, you have to do what makes you happy and keeps you fed. I still enjoy the neuro work, but honestly, if I were in my late teens/early 20s now, I'd be choosing a different route.
Click to expand...
I live in Illinois though as you probably know a state with RxP which the training is strenuous but I will probably be pursuing it 100%. If not I'll just go to a direct entry NP school. I just can't really imagine myself doing anything besides psych. I would go the mid-level route of being an NP first but that's too much of a blow to my self-esteem of just being a mid-level.
 
BorderlineQueen said:
I live in Illinois though as you probably know a state with RxP which the training is strenuous but I will probably be pursuing it 100%. If not I'll just go to a direct entry NP school. I just can't really imagine myself doing anything besides psych. I would go the mid-level route of being an NP first but that's too much of a blow to my self-esteem of just being a mid-level.
Click to expand...
In Illinois, last I checked, the RxP path was made so onerous that you might as well just go the NP route. I'd get used to not making your self-esteem reliant on your clinical status. Psychologists are viewed as interchangeable with midlevels in many systems anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
WisNeuro said:
In Illinois, last I checked, the RxP path was made so onerous that you might as well just go the NP route. I'd get used to not making your self-esteem reliant on your clinical status. Psychologists are viewed as interchangeable with midlevels in many systems anyway.
Click to expand...
True it's really sad but I do bet though that the nursing lobbies are better than the APA. You can have no experience as an RN and then in 2 years with 500 practicum hours you can practice alone in 23 states or even more now. But medicine is following the path of psychology I believe in all of the states that NPs can practice alone. Countless physicians have been fired to replace them with NPs. Pretty soon when NPs get full practice in all states it will be 90% NPs and 10%, physicians running hospitals. Most administrators probably know that the NPs practice horrible care. But they are making money for the hospital by ordering every test in the book.
 
BorderlineQueen said:
True it's really sad but I do bet though that the nursing lobbies are better than the APA. You can have no experience as an RN and then in 2 years with 500 practicum hours you can practice alone in 23 states or even more now. But medicine is following the path of psychology I believe in all of the states that NPs can practice alone. Countless physicians have been fired to replace them with NPs. Pretty soon when NPs get full practice in all states it will be 90% NPs and 10%, physicians running hospitals. Most administrators probably know that the NPs practice horrible care. But they are making money for the hospital by ordering every test in the book.
Click to expand...

Meh, I don't really know that I've noticed a difference. The biggest benzo pushers and polypharm disasters in my system are family med and psychiatry physicians. And, I've yet to see any decent outcome research showing a difference, so I'll reserve judgment for now.
 
BorderlineQueen said:
True it's really sad but I do bet though that the nursing lobbies are better than the APA. You can have no experience as an RN and then in 2 years with 500 practicum hours you can practice alone in 23 states or even more now. But medicine is following the path of psychology I believe in all of the states that NPs can practice alone. Countless physicians have been fired to replace them with NPs. Pretty soon when NPs get full practice in all states it will be 90% NPs and 10%, physicians running hospitals. Most administrators probably know that the NPs practice horrible care. But they are making money for the hospital by ordering every test in the book.
Click to expand...
I'd be careful of wide-sweeping generalities. Your posts seem to be riddled with them.
 
With what I remember reading of the Illinois RxP law, it's bordering on equivalent to getting a PA degree along with your doctorate in psychology. If I knew going in that I wanted prescribing to be a fundamental part of my practice, I'd opt for medical school, would prioritize residencies with some measure of emphasis on psychotherapy, and might then consider a fellowship or additional therapy training.

This thread is also motivating me to get more involved with my state psych association.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
PsyDr said:
It’s one of the biggest scandals in psychology and no one is talking about it!

Last year the federal courts called for an audit after discovering multiple instances of malingering in the nfl settlement. Outright coaching caught on f’ing text messages. The oral examiner coordinator of ABRP was the only specifically named. The audit says she engaged in coaching and billing more hours than existed in a day. This person remains on the ABRP board.

IMO: that she remains in the board is crazy. That she still has a board certification is crazy. She should not have a license. That abrp has ignored this demonstrates the board’s stated goals are puffery. It’s not about quality at all.

Click to expand...

This is some entertaining evening reading..... Holy ****.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
PsyDr said:
Challenge: Match my contributions to professional organizations over the next year. You can choose the organization, but you have to match the amount I send. I will offer photo proof via PMs to participants.

Who is game?
Click to expand...

I might be, but we would likely have to alter this to be equivalent percentage of income. Something tells me you make more than I do. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
WisNeuro said:
That's a pretty personal decision, you have to do what makes you happy and keeps you fed. I still enjoy the neuro work, but honestly, if I were in my late teens/early 20s now, I'd be choosing a different route.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Psych NPs make more than the average psychologist with less education. They are pushing to move to a doctorate now as well. If it were me, I would get into the MA level programs now while I still can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Therapist4Chnge said:
The creep to “doctoral” practice is sketchy. It seems to be happening needlessly...DNP, for PTs, etc.
Click to expand...

Agreed, it seems more like requiring a doctorate to get a masters level job due to institutional "respect" contests within fields.
 
Sanman said:
Agreed, Psych NPs make more than the average psychologist with less education. They are pushing to move to a doctorate now as well. If it were me, I would get into the MA level programs now while I still can.
Click to expand...
This thread is also giving me perspective I guess after I graduate with my bachelors I'll try the Accelerated BSN program and then get my psych NP. Would it be possible to still become a psychologist after I'm an NP? Like work very few hours as an NP and be in grad school?
 
Sanman said:
Agreed, it seems more like requiring a doctorate to get a masters level job due to institutional "respect" contests within fields.
Click to expand...
I don't know who is pushing for the doctoral requirements for things like physical therapists... I wonder if it's the schools. Psychology is one of the only fields where full funding still exists for many students, with a degree that leads to professional licensure. As a sector, higher ed has a lot of financial problems, despite costing a heck of a lot more than it used to. Highly profitable graduate programs are a way to fill those gaps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread
Top