University of Arizona Residency Reviews

[daddymd]

I was pleasantly surprised by the University of Arizona when I interviewed there. Seems to be a strong program in a fun city. I'm curious what others thought were the positives/negatives of the program and if anyone has experience living in Tucson that they wanted to share (is the crime rate really that high?). Thanks.

Disclaimer: To those who wish to flame, I promise to only rank places where I "fit" without regard to others' opinions or preferences.

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[fuegorama]

I spent the best 4 years of my life in Tucson. I was working as a travel nurse. I took gigs at all the city hospitals. UMC has a great staff and a pretty good vibe. I was on the nursing side, so I can't comment on the residency.

The city has great restaurants. It is flanked by two national parks. (actually one with two districts) The national forests and county parks all have great mtn. biking and climbing.

If outdoor fun is your thing, it is a great destination.

45 miles from Mexico. 45 minutes (by shuttle) to San Diego. Within a Friday drive of Durango, and a short reach for that Vegas weekend.

The crime scene is a bad, but is location dependent. I had my '86 4-runner stolen from in front of my house, and a car stereo yanked while at work. (Str. Mary's)

PM me for more.
I am looking outside at a pile of dirty snow and starting to tear up.
F

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I'm a Tucson resident, so I am biased. That said, let me answer your questions. Yes, we had the highest crime rate per capita in the U.S. last year, but it is almost all petty larceny. I haven't had anything stolen or vandalized in the 1.5 years I've been here. I just think of the crime rate as increasing our percentage of penetrating trauma. It is very neighborhood dependent.

Positives:
Great residents
Great attendings
Great schedule (9 hour shifts with great sign out culture, you can schedule a 3 day "weekend" every month whenever you want it, shifts overlap by one hour with your replacement, so the last 1.5 hours are dispositioning patients, dictating, etc)
Great conferences
Well-established program
Great focus on Peds
More trauma than you'd ever want
World class road and mountain biking
World class climbing
Fantastic hiking
Year round sunny weather (only July, August, and the first two weeks of September are truly miserable)
Great Airway training
Rapidly improving US training (brand new endocavitary and linear probes this week)
Great Evidence based medicine training
Refined off-service rotations
Very talented program director and department chair
Inexpensive place to buy/rent a home
Small town feel with big town amenities (and crime)
Lots of experience treating Hispanics and Native Americans
2 months of selective (traditionally taken in foreign countries)

Negatives:
July, August, and September (Great ICU months!)
Only 3 months of dedicated ICU time, plus some ICU experience on other rotations, (Oh wait, was this supposed to be the negatives?)
Disorganized trauma codes
ED sees 70,000 patients in a facility designed to see 50,000
Very little experience treating African-Americans

Overall, the people who are happy here are smart, work hard, and enjoy spending time outdoors. People who are not happy here are lazy, difficult to get along with, miss the beach, or miss the social scene bigger cities can offer.

 

[Big Z]

I'm not sure if there's much that I can add to the prior posts, but I did spend 8 years in Tucson, four of which were at the UofA medical school. I've heard that crime in the area is a real problem, but I've never had a problem personally (4 years in the foothills, 4 years on the west side by St. Mary's Hospital). Housing really is dirt cheap, and you can afford to buy a home on a residents salary (something a little harder to do on the east or west coast). Some of the positives/negatives that I thought of the EM program (remember i was a student, NOT a resident there):

Positives:
Sunshine, sunshine, and more sunshine
Academics are excellent, although not sure how they do nationally on inservice exam
Some big names listed in faculty
Residents are (mostly) happy
Attendings are (mostly) approachable
Great cafeteria (relatively speaking, after all, it is still hospital food)
Tucson itself has lots to offer (outdoor sports, mexican influence, etc)

Negatives:
Sunshine, sunshine, and still more sunshine (it really gets old after awhile)
big name attendings are never around (and one in particular tends to be pretty nasty to students/residents.. some of you know who i'm talking about)
Very disorganized during trauma codes
cramped quarters (very very crowded resident/attending area)
No computerized tracking/documentation/Tsheets in the ED
It gets pretty hot in the summer (which, by the way, feels about 6 months long)

I'd be more than happy to talk to anyone considering ranking UofAz program to give them some more detailed info. Good luck with the match this year!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

RE: Inservice exam....I believe my entire class passed it....as interns. Not an issue here (nor is it most other places)

 

[daddymd]

Thanks for the great replies. The info is really helpful.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I am wondering if anyone has insight into this program. I dont know much about it but due to my personal life it is looking like a decent possibility. Any and all info would be appreciated.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I'm a third year EM resident at Arizona. Let me know what you want to know about it.

3 year program in a 1 million person city surrounded by mountains. 8 months of beautiful weather, 4 months of really hot weather. 1/2-2/3 of residents are hooked up, but there's still an OK night life in Tucson (it ain't New York or LA though.) It is a university town. Still affordable to buy a house on a resident salary, but the bubble is creeping in here too. Over 4000 trauma activations/year.

Recently expanded to a second hospital, so 10-12 new faculty this year. We had some really good pick-ups too. An increasing research focus compared to years past, but most people still going into community practice. Graduates are located all over the country, particularly in difficult to get into groups in the West. Very few of the positions are residents get into are ever advertised. Ultrasound program well above average, but maybe not quite into the UC-Irvine category yet. You'll certainly learn what you need to about Ultrasound here. Sonosite Titan with all the probes available in the ED. New EM-Peds program last year. You see Peds patients in 4 places...1) As an intern and 2nd year you work 2-4 shifts a month in the urgent care where you see most kids (because most kids ain't sick.) 2) Night shifts all the kids are seen in the main ED 3) Sick kids (the only ones you're really interested in seeing later in your residency are always seen in the main ED. 4) As an intern you spend a month at a community hospital with a peds ED.

Faculty is a great mix of older, more established people on the lecture circuit and younger people still trying to make tenure. Of the 20-25 there's only 2 that I really don't like working with.

Great shift schedule. 22 9 hour shifts per month (not 28 day period) as an intern, 21 as a junior, and 20 as a senior. Always off for conferences. Your replacement comes on 1 hour before your shift ends so you frequently leave right on time or even early. Only 6.5 months of call. Only one month of medicine wards, and it is a surprisingly good VA month where you have a good mix of CCU patients, ICU patients, and floor patients. You also get to be a very valuable member of the code team. (As an intern, I was the most experienced in airway management who showed up to the codes. Supposedly there was an anesthesia guy in the hospital, but he usually showed up late.) Only 2 weeks of OB...you only need 10 deliveries after all, so who wants to spend an entire month getting them.

Great conferences, about half given by faculty, half by residents. Since there are more than 30 residents in the program, you actually have time to put some serious preparation into the lectures. Many of them approach the quality of presentations given at ACEP.

Downsides...not as much cardiac as I would like. As the trauma center we see a bit younger slice of the population than some of the other hospitals in town. Cafeteria closes from 9 pm to 6:30 am. Very few African Americans, so not much sickle cell (oh wait, these were supposed to be the down-sides.) Lots of Spanish speakers, maybe 10% pure Spanish and 30% prefer it.

All the residents but 1 in my class ranked it first. He ranked it second, but would have ranked it first. We only interview 5-6 people per slot, rather than the usual 10. I think that's a sign of how impressed the people that come are with the program. I'd still rank it first. Other people who come here tend to rank UC-Davis, UNM, Utah, and Indiana highly. Most of us had some interviews in California and at lots of the "big-name" type MidWestern programs. Most of us had good board scores. We all love the outdoors and we also have lots of exercise junkies. 3 people have left in the last few years, 1 guy to go into FP (don't ask me,) 1 was kicked out, and 1 is on an extended leave of absence for an unknown reason. (resident's choice.) The impressive thing is how well the program works with these people to help them to get what they want.

 

[jane70]

i don't know if this is one of those questions you're *not supposed* to ask, but what kindof board scores/grades would you say is the average for U of A EM? This program is also high on my list, probably first, due to a variety of reasons, personal and otherwise. Also do you think doing the 4th year med student elective there is helpful at all and does it matter what area of the country you're from? thanks.....

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Many of us did quite well on the boards. I don't think there is anyone here with below average boards (215), most of us had 230+ I suspect, but it's not exactly a regular topic of conversation. An elective is very helpful if you do very well on it. About half the people we take every year rotate with us. It certainly isn't required. As far as part of the country, it doesn't matter as long as you can prove to our residency director that you'll be happy living in Tucson.

 

[ArtGod]

I am a 3rd yr. Can you tell me anything about the Peds/EM program at Arizona? I know that there are only 3 in the country. Can you tell me what the difference/advantage is of doing it this way rather than Peds then EM fellowship or EM then Peds EM fellowship?

Is this more or less competitive than straight EM?

Thanks!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

So I checked with my knowledgeable source regarding the board scores question. Of the 700 non-Arizona applications, we interview about 55. (We interview all the people from Arizona, like most programs.) Board scores average 235-240, but I know we're interviewing at least one person with below average scores.

Advantage of doing Peds/EM rather than Peds residency, then EM residency is you save one year (but the months you don't do are generally the easier ones, not the call rotations.)

Advantage of doing Peds/EM residency (5 years) rather than Peds residency (3 years) than Emergency Peds fellowship (3 years) is you save one year, and you qualify to work in a general emergency department.

Advantage of doing Peds/EM rather than EM residency (3 years) then a Peds EM fellowship (2 years) is you are double boarded in Peds and in EM.

More or less competitive, hard to say. Last year (the program's first year) it was probably less competitive. But, there are only 3 programs in the country, so I suspect now that we match people in the regular match it will eventually be more competitive, as long as more than just a few people actually want to do it.

 

[crewmaster1]

BELOW IS A QUOTE FROM SCUTWORK.COM REGARDING U. OF ARIZONA.
I'm just wondering if anyone else can comment on some of the statements made in this review. Is this an accurate, insider review or a resident that just didn't click with the program? Either way it sure raises some questions to discuss during interviews. See below or visit scutwork.com:

PGY3 30-May- 2006

Schedule

There are 20-22 9 hour shifts per month depending on your year (8 hour shifts in the Urgent Care). This makes for a nice schedule with available time for a personal life.

In internship year, life depends on the rotation. OB/Gyn is universally known as hell on earth here. Q2-3 call on a habitually slammed service. They manipulate the 2 weeks you are there to max out an 80 hour schedule that will be closer to 90 hours. You run the triage side much of the time and some residents struggle to get their 10 deliveries in... one had to return to the service to complete.

Anesthesia couldn't give two ****s that you are there; they find emergency residents bothersome and have no desire to teach - with one great attending who is the exception.

Trauma is challenging, yet full of learning. Like most other trauma rotations, you are the note writer, wound checker, and all around punching bag for the senior residents (ask Michelle why she hates the EM residents so).

Orthopedics can be interesting. How much hands-on reduction time depends on your senior residents. I had a great one and learned a lot. Their was one exceptionally malignant female chief who is now checking out feet on the indigent in Detroit who was power-hungry and malevalent. Since she is gone, things have improved.

The ED time allows you a good experience with patient management. Be very clear that during a trauma, the trauma residents are in charge of ALL lines and ALL chest tubes unless they permit us to put them in. We cannot put in a chest tube on even a sponteous pneumo without their blessing and agreement to admit the patient.

Second year gives the SICU service which is challenging but high yield learning. CCU-ICU... good services, but the CCU service is very much "here is a pager... I am going home, page the fellow, call the ED or internal medicine folks if the patient goes down, I only live 20 minutes away". Things pick up from the learning standpoint during second year when you "move the meat". Nursing staff starts to respect (instead of resent) you and you are reduced by a shift a month.

Another huge problem they fail to tell you about when you interview is that there are days (entire days or days in a row) where there is no coverage for some specialties.... historically it was hand and neurosurg. The hand thing did get better, but the off-service, out-of-hospital, on-call docs cringe when they get our page and fight like stink not to come in.

Third year is so busy moonlighting, looking for a job and finding some type of project that the director finds acceptable, that time flies by. You have the opportunity to teach the younger residents and learn more independent practice. This is primarily a single learning experience program (although we rotate at another facility for a short time), unless you moonlight, it is difficult to know what the real world looks like.

Teaching

The faculty are hit and miss. Some seriously sit in the attending chair the entire shift and listen to presentations/sign charts without seeing the patient, unless they are seriously ill. There is a senior male attending reknowned for his appetite to be condescending. He and another attending are in a relationship which often makes the department awkward. In general, the attendings do not come from strong training programs. There are a couple of enthusiastic attendings who want to teach; the assistant residency director is a great asset to the program. Airway experience is good. The didactic sessions are informative but drag. We do journal club in the classroom setting. Some of the residents sleep through the session.

Atmosphere

The camaraderie among residents varies by class. Attendings do have some face time at resident functions. If you are not in the department, you are pretty much in no-man's-land socially until you return. Physically, the department is a typical department. There are no FMGs in the program. The short work schedule allows plenty of time to have an outside life.

Conclusion

The programs main strength is the resident's belief in our training. Most graduates find a job where they want. The drawbacks are the attendings that are not interested in teaching. The lack of trust of the department chair, who is known more as a politician than a resident advocate. Also in regards to him, the change in contracts for the graduates hired on to faculty is well-known. The romantic relationship between two of the attendings can make some shifts weird. I am one of those folks that believes all emergency medicine programs make you compotent if you put forth the effort. Most graduates from here enter into private practice; this program does not produce a large population of academic physicians. I would have thought twice about coming here had I known then what I know now. I would caution applicants to rotate here and experience the environment before signing up. I am sorry that I am not a cheerleader for the program I come from - am am being completely honest as I wish someone had been with me.

End quote

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Well, let's take it step by step. I'm still trying to figure out which of my classmates wrote this. I suspect it was the one who left during her third year, but who knows. If you would like to speak to the 10 residents who remained in that class, I suspect you would hear a VERY different picture.

Let's see 20-22 9 hours shifts. That's correct. You do some urgent care shifts as a PGY1 and PGY2. Also true. This is about average for EM programs, not too cush, but not crazy either.

OB/GYN month is Q3-4 call, and I easily stayed under 80 hours. I got 15 deliveries, although I suppose it would be possible if you had very bad luck to not get your ten in the 2 week rotation. Did you hear that? Two weeks. Sounds pretty good huh. Everyone else has to do a month.

Anesthesia rotation is one of those things that you get out of it what you put in to it. I put in about 5-6 hours a day, 4 days a week, and ended up with lots of lines, an epidural, and 35 intubations. That one great attending is a stud, but the key to the rotation is to find some great residents to help you be the procedure monkey. If you did lots of intubating as medical student, you can use it as a pseudo-vacation month since there is no one making sure you show up.

Trauma is tough and similar everywhere. Michelle is a b--ch, but hey, where else can you find a surgery program that doesn't have a few jerks in it. Besides, I think she graduates this year.

Ortho, that resident is gone, but the program is kind of weak. Unfortunate, since a weak residency program makes it tough to have a great rotation for us. But I got lots of reductions and plenty of splinting experience. What else were you looking for in an ortho rotation?

Trauma residents in charge of lines and chest tubes? Maybe if they ever showed up. There is so much trauma going through that ED you'll be glad if anyone shows up to help out. I certainly didn't ask permission to put in lines and chest tubes. If the patient needs the procedure, nobody wasted any time asking anyone's permission.

ICU/CCM rotations are awesome. CCU sucks as always. Who wants to admit chest pain patients? Why did you go into EM after all? Of course it is going to suck to be on the other end of that pager. But I can't say I didn't learn anything. PICU rotation is AWESOME! Great pathology, you get first crack at the procedures (neonatal central lines are pretty frickin tough it turns out), and the attendings teach like mad.

There are a few gaps in the call schedule. Hand was a big problem my intern year, but that problem has been fixed. ENT was an issue, but that was fixed my second year. Neurosurg was never an issue.

There is now a third hospital associated with the program so it is in no way a single hospital program, although that would have been a fair criticism a few years ago. You used to only spend 3 months away from the university hospital, but it is much more now.

The faculty are a huge strength of the program. Yes there is one who sits in the attending chair and doesn't see patients much. You hate it as an intern, but as a senior it is nice to have a bit more autonomy. The remainder are fantastic. They are nationally recognized and well known. The department head is probably the best EM teacher I've ever met. He is an adept politician (nothing wrong with that when he is working for YOUR interest.) The airway man teaches nationally. The department head trained under Rosen. One of the newer faculty members came from Denver. One is from Hennepin etc etc etc. Not sure what this evaluator feels is a weak program, but just because the residency director trained at Drew 20 years ago isn't a bad sign.

Didactic sessions are informative and usually are great, whether done by a resident (40%) or an attending (60%). Of course, they do drag on if you just came off the night shift, but come on, what is anyone supposed to do about that? Journal club was recently changed from faculty members homes to the classroom setting, but monthly social activities were instituted in their place at faculty homes. And yes, I have even seen a resident asleep during a lecture! Can you believe that?

I would say the camaraderie among residents is excellent with the exception of a certain resident from my class who was never social with the rest of us and left the program during her third year. (Part of the reason I suspect this post might be from her.)

The physical plant is overcrowded like most places, but is currently going under construction. Should be great when finished. No, there are no FMGs or DOs in the program. Not my choice, but perhaps a reflection of the applicant pool and the strength of the program.

Most graduates find a job they want? All graduates got THE job they wanted without difficulty.

Nearly all the attendings are fantastic teachers and heads and shoulders above the residency program where I am now a faculty member.

I'm not sure what the poster means by the lack of trust of the department chair, but as you might expect in any department the faculty members always have differences of opinion and the chair is the one who has to do the firing and hiring. In my experience he is a fantastic resident advocate and he made several phone calls to ensure me career opportunities. He is a tough negotiator regarding hiring contracts, but what do you expect? You'll run into a tough negotiator in many jobs you go to. If you don't like working for him, don't stay on as faculty. It certainly doesn't affect your resident education. Two of the attendings live together outside of wedlock. They occasionally bring food to each other on their shifts. Apparently that made the evaluator feel a bit weird. I didn't really notice an issue. They were both great teachers and two of my favorite faculty members to work for.

Most graduates (like most graduates everywhere) go into private practice. But 4 out of 10 of us went into academics. We were well prepared.

"I would have thought twice about coming here had I known then what I know now."

Perhaps you shouldn't have flown in an hour before your interview and flown out immediately afterward, then you could have met more of the residents and experienced the area. Then you would have realized that Tucson isn't the Bay Area, doesn't have the world's great shopping, isn't the most racially/ethinically/religiously diverse city in the country, and that it is really hot in the summer.

I ranked Tucson # 1 (as did all of my classmates but 1, who ranked it number 2) and would do it again. I received a fantastic education and had a great time. My family loved Tucson and I can't say enough good things about the program. Is it perfect? Of course not. Every program has its problems. But I can tell you the issues at the U of Arizona are very small ones in the grand scheme of things. They only interview about 6 people per slot (most programs do about 10/slot) because that is all they have to interview to fill.

Great faculty, great support staff, great residents, great city, great residency program.

 

[crewmaster1]

Thank you for your time replying to that post. I really appreciate it. I have heard great things about U. of Az and was a surprised (and a bit scared) when I read the scutwork post. This post seemed out of place from what I have heard previously, but this makes sense if you envision some pissed off resident who is leaving the program.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Well, let's take it step by step. I'm still trying to figure out which of my classmates wrote this. I suspect it was the one who left during her third year, but who knows. If you would like to speak to the 10 residents who remained in that class, I suspect you would hear a VERY different picture.

I would also agree. As a current PGY-1 who has a pretty good sense of the feelings of my classmates I can tell you we are happy hell very happy when in the department.

Let's see 20-22 9 hours shifts. That's correct. You do some urgent care shifts as a PGY1 and PGY2. Also true. This is about average for EM programs, not too cush, but not crazy either.

Actually they changed the interns to 4 week block scheduling. We work 20 shifts in 28 days. They try to break them up into 4 Days, 4 evenings, 4 nights, 4 Kino shifts (more on that later) and 4 urgent care shifts. Each yr you work 1 fewer shift. All are 9 hour shifts.

OB/GYN month is Q3-4 call, and I easily stayed under 80 hours. I got 15 deliveries, although I suppose it would be possible if you had very bad luck to not get your ten in the 2 week rotation. Did you hear that? Two weeks. Sounds pretty good huh. Everyone else has to do a month.

I hate OB and to be honest it was no different here. I easily got my 10 deliveries. They do make it a priority to make sure you get your 10. I had 12 about 9 days into my 2 weeks so I let the students catch some babies. I probably could have done 20 if I really pushed. My experience is that in those 2 weeks you will take 3 or 4 calls which just depends on dumb luck.

Anesthesia rotation is one of those things that you get out of it what you put in to it. I put in about 5-6 hours a day, 4 days a week, and ended up with lots of lines, an epidural, and 35 intubations. That one great attending is a stud, but the key to the rotation is to find some great residents to help you be the procedure monkey. If you did lots of intubating as medical student, you can use it as a pseudo-vacation month since there is no one making sure you show up. This is what I heard as well.

Trauma is tough and similar everywhere. Michelle is a b--ch, but hey, where else can you find a surgery program that doesn't have a few jerks in it. Besides, I think she graduates this year.

Trauma blows but you learn a lot. Hours of rounding, pages from nurses for nothing and being q4. sucks... You do get procedures if you want and basically let them know you want to do it.

Ortho, that resident is gone, but the program is kind of weak. Unfortunate, since a weak residency program makes it tough to have a great rotation for us. But I got lots of reductions and plenty of splinting experience. What else were you looking for in an ortho rotation?

Ortho is ok. I have reduced some people and put in a skeletal screw for a femur fx. you get what you want.

Trauma residents in charge of lines and chest tubes? Maybe if they ever showed up. There is so much trauma going through that ED you'll be glad if anyone shows up to help out. I certainly didn't ask permission to put in lines and chest tubes. If the patient needs the procedure, nobody wasted any time asking anyone's permission.

Agree. Best part is most of the non-interns have already gotten all of their procedures in and as such if you aks they will let you do whatever needs to be done and they will take time and teach/explain what to do. Of course sometimes things are so busy this isnt the case.

ICU/CCM rotations are awesome. CCU sucks as always. Who wants to admit chest pain patients? Why did you go into EM after all? Of course it is going to suck to be on the other end of that pager. But I can't say I didn't learn anything. PICU rotation is AWESOME! Great pathology, you get first crack at the procedures (neonatal central lines are pretty frickin tough it turns out), and the attendings teach like mad.
PGY-1 so I dont know too much about these.

There are a few gaps in the call schedule. Hand was a big problem my intern year, but that problem has been fixed. ENT was an issue, but that was fixed my second year. Neurosurg was never an issue.

We occasionally 2-3 times a month have some issues with hand but as desperado said Neurosurg has NEVER been a problem. ENT is not an issue at all for us.

There is now a third hospital associated with the program so it is in no way a single hospital program, although that would have been a fair criticism a few years ago. You used to only spend 3 months away from the university hospital, but it is much more now.

As mentioned 1/4 of our shifts are at kino which is more like a true county hospital and less like an academic place you get some unique and different experience.

The faculty are a huge strength of the program. Yes there is one who sits in the attending chair and doesn't see patients much. You hate it as an intern, but as a senior it is nice to have a bit more autonomy. The remainder are fantastic. They are nationally recognized and well known. The department head is probably the best EM teacher I've ever met. He is an adept politician (nothing wrong with that when he is working for YOUR interest.) The airway man teaches nationally. The department head trained under Rosen. One of the newer faculty members came from Denver. One is from Hennepin etc etc etc. Not sure what this evaluator feels is a weak program, but just because the residency director trained at Drew 20 years ago isn't a bad sign. Desperado, I am wondering who this person is who doesnt see anyone? I have spent 5 months in the dept and I dont know who that is. (PM me please). I think our faculty are great. We hired 2 EM/Peds combined people who are an amazing resource on Peds in the ED. Our chair is great and is a phenomenal teacher. We have one of the foremost airway people in the country and the world. Nothing is scarier IMO than not being able to get an airway. Also we have new faculty from Penn Indiana, Maryland etc. Overall we have attendings from the East coast, the west coast and the midwest.

Ill reply later to the rest.. Sorry I have to go to bed.. Ortho calls.

 

[crewmaster1]

I'm in love. What a cool program. I actually experienced that feeling of "wow, I would love to be here and would call interviews quits if they just offered me a spot". I'm too busy to go into all the details, but wow. Great facility, getting an even better new hospital with childrens ed in a couple of years. Super cool/fun/outdoor type residents. They seemed to get a long and really have fun. Great orientation month with limited shifts and week in cabins with interns and beer! Awesome PD that is totally about the residents and helping you develop into what you want to be. Per the PD this program has grads all over the W. coast that are in awesome groups. The academics are top notch as is the faculty. Tons of research opportunities with lots of money/NIH grants, but if you don't dig reserach they have a structured single project you can do that will be very painless. Only work 9 hour shifts, and don't pick up new patients after 7.5 hours. Weather is awesome, a bit cooler than phoenix and the area actually has mountains (8,000 ft peaks) around the city. Great areas to live in. Affordable. Gym in the hospital (a really nice one) for like $17/month. Plus they only interview like 60 people, so you know you have a chance and even if they don't like you at the end of the day you still get a T-shirt!

The biggest down side......the don't have Up to Date because it is "too expensive". That's crazy talk for an institution that big. Crazy talk!

 

[EMfosho]

specifically, how does uofa compare to maricopa? how's living in tucson? i hear the program is very strong, but have not heard many specifics....anyone care to comment? is it true they only interview like 60 people? thanks!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

specifically, how does uofa compare to maricopa? how's living in tucson? i hear the program is very strong, but have not heard many specifics....anyone care to comment? is it true they only interview like 60 people? thanks!

Yes, they only interview like sixty people. Probably a few more now that they've added more spots. The program is very strong and getting stronger all the time. A very laid back atmosphere with minimal structured academic learning outside the weekly conference block (i.e. if you need someone to force you to read, don't go there.) Tucson is the earth-friendly, slightly liberal part of Arizona surrounded by mountains. The nightlife leaves something to be desired but it is a fantastic place to take a young family. Lots of big names and excellent airway, US, and Peds exposure.

Maricopa is also a great program. A little more of a county feel with younger, perhaps more energetic, but less recognized faculty, although I think they recently recruited one of the Tintinalli editors if memory serves. Maricopa is in Phoenix, which is the urban sprawl, raging nightlife, somewhat more conservative, big city in Arizona.

Go to Tucson if the following are important to you:

Intermountain West Program
Speaking Spanish
Airway training
Trauma training
US training
Peds training
Being near mountains
Big name faculty
Many years of graduates working all over, but mostly in the West
A combination of county and university
Lots of opportunity to "move the meat" but without being left to sink or swim like at some county programs

Don't go to Tucson if the following are important to you:

A vast, in-depth EMS experience
Living near a coast
Seeing black patients
Big city shopping or culture (although it is a university town)
Spending all your time at one hospital
A small program (It's no Indianapolis by any means, but neither is it Maine)

Good luck with your decision. If you have interviews to U of A and Maricopa you should be a strong enough applicant to be able to go anywhere you want.

 

[vacoug]

University of Arizona


Residents: A really fun group of residents that seem to get along great. Definitely fit the outdoorsy type that you picture down in Tucson. Very in to biking, climbing, hiking and even scuba not to far away. I went to the dinner the night before and had a very enjoyable time. If you are in to the outdoors this is definitely one of those programs for you kind of like UNM, Utah, and Maine to name a few.

Faculty: Well what can I say about faculty when you go to interview and Peter Rosen hangs out in the room with you while you wait to interview. He was a lot of fun to talk to and was pretty neat to meet the man. He trained the chair; Dr Meislin and they greeted each other with a hug. Rosen isn’t full time faculty, but he does winter there and the residents get to enjoy listening to him lecture during the winter months. The PD, is Dr Keim, who is and extremely dedicated PD which is evident by his 18 years at the job. The only other PDs I have met with his type of longevity were Counselman at EVMS and Wolfson at Pitt. He is truly dedicated towards helping each resident achieve their career goals. The other faculty I met were extremely nice and according to the residents all are very capable teachers.

Ancillary Staff: According to the residents they get along great with the staff and scut work is at a minimum.

Curriculum: This was the first interview where I actually heard a fellow student question if the program had enough off service rotations. They do have more time in the ED than many programs and they also get one month of vacation every year. The residents said that they are very Trauma heavy and they just hired a new Trauma surgeon from LA county who is supposed to be awesome to work with. They have didactics all on one day like most programs I saw. They have a small Sim lab that is going to expanding hugely in the coming years. Overall, a very well established, strong curriculum.

Facilities: You work at the University Hospital, Kino, an old county hospital now owned by the university, and a private hospital. The university hospital was very nice but is actually expanding and sounds like in a year and a half will be huge and beautiful. Kino sounds very interesting, I didn’t get to go out there but sounds like a county hospital with lots of indigent care, possibly a new residency will be put there but not for a few years.

Location: I went to Tucson in January so what can I say, it was beautiful. I left freezing temps in SLC and it was 65 every day while I was in AZ. It actually does look like a cool city though, with plenty of outdoors stuff to do close by. I drove up mount Lemon while I was there it was cool to go from a cacti laden landscape to pines and snow within an hour. Sounds like the summers are killer but they said you get morning and evening when you can still do stuff outside. Phoenix is 2 hours away, otherwise not too close to any big cities.

Negatives: I would say the hot summers.

Overall: Really a great program that is well deserving of its reputation. The faculty are top notch. The facilities are nice. And when you are off you get to play outside year round. The residents are a tight knit group and it seems like they have fun in and out of the hospital. I was very impressed with this program. I will be ranking them highly and would be extremely excited to match there.

 

[onomatopoeia09]

Thought I should chip in since I know I read these threads incessantly last year. I added in a bit about my overall thoughts on each program, in case anyone finds that helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have questions and I'll try to at least give my personal insight (which was mostly gleaned from a 1 day interview so it for what it is!).I didn't go to all the interviews I was offered, but I ranked all the places I interviewed and honestly feel I'd be happy at any of them. Yay for EM.

1. Vanderbilt: Loved this program. Had everything I was looking for in terms of having great people, tremendous leadership, great academic/research opportunities, nice city with good COL. Overall the hospital is super supportive of resident education, good benefits, etc. SO liked it too, so it was a fairly easy choice.

2. U of AZ: This was a strong #1 for me until I went to Vandy (which was my last interview). Totally loved the residents, wanted to go out for drinks with the rockin' PD, and Tucson in December was awesome. Great research and terrific curriculum, too. In the end, though, it's far from family and didn't outshine anything Vandy could offer so being a direct flight from family won out.

3. Maine: Totally loved this program, too. Fantastic residents, great hospital, fabulous location. I've spent a lot of time in Maine so this place felt great to me. Thing is, they have no NIH funded research, and since it's important to me to have mentors with NIH grants, etc, I decided I had to pass this one up. I do hope to get back there later in my career, though, and if Match Day brings me there now I'll still be really happy.

4. Carolinas: Great, well established program that has been turning out fantastic EPs for a long time. I liked the new PD a lot on a personal level, although it felt like she's still working out her vision for the direction of the program from here. I don't think that really takes away how great the program is, necessarily, but the leadership at other programs pushed them above this one for me. Again, I think I could be very happy here.

5. UMass: Again, another very well established, very strong program where I could be very happy. I absolutely loved the PD here and it's clear that he puts the education/health/happiness of his residents at the top of his to-do list every day. Worcester is really a drab, post-industrial city with horrendous winter weather, though, and SO was pretty dead set against moving there. So down it went.

6. Utah: I rotated here and really enjoyed my month. Really fun people, good focus on education, could not really be in a nicer location. In the end it was also far from family, and it's a young program that still seemed to be finding its place in the overall hospital scene. I know some residents in other departments at the U and it seems from their experiences that there's an overtone of 'residents are here to work' instead of 'residents are here to learn.' I figured out on the interview trail that this distinction was important to me. I don't think that was true in EM there at all, but you do have to do your off-service rotations. This could be off, it just seemed that some of the other programs I saw had a bit more to offer me in the end. Despite that, I would be more than happy to train there, and I'm sure I'd get a great education, if that's how things go.

7. Georgetown: Dr. Love (the PD here) was actually the one who drew my attention to the point mentioned above, that you want to go somewhere that you're not just a cog in the wheel of the hospital but that your education is primary. He has such a well-defined, clear vision for his program. It was really inspiring. I'd be really happy to train here, in theory, but the logistics were just not going to work for me. COL was way too high, you have to drive to locations that aren't near one another in crazy DC traffic, etc. I was kind of bummed I couldn't easily make this one work for us. We'll figure it out if match brings us there, but it'll be a challenge.

8. UVA: I definitely loved Charlottesville and the residents I met. I went here after I was at G'town and I wanted to take that program and move it to Charlottesville. The PD here is new and just wasn't a great salesman. I don't doubt they have a great program, but he did a lot of handwaving and literally saying 'blah blah blah' during his PPT and I felt like I didn't get a sense at all of what he was offering. That said, I'm sure I would be happy here and I certainly loved the scribes program.

9. Rochester: Definitely a strong program, nice people, good COL, strong research, but SO wouldn't budge on location.

That's all she wrote. Bring on 3/17!!

 

[Deuce Doc]

Arizona

.Residents: I really felt at home with these folks. Both the residents and the applicants were great, which seems impossible. The experience was definitely improved by the pre-interview dinner which was catered at a resident's house. It was a great chance to meet everyone in a low-stress environment and it was easy to move around and talk to folks. This is the way that all the programs should do it (except for the ones where you are better off not meeting the residents...
.
.Lifestyle/City: Tucson really appeals to me, but I suppose that the desert will be a deal breaker for some. Everyone seems to be very outdoorsy there, and a surprisingly high number of residents are interested in skiing for a place that doesn't have slopes very close by. Work hours were .20, 19, and 18 nine hour shifts.
..
.Curriculum:.. The ED time is split between the main hospital where the residency is based and the south campus where the other, newer program is based. The south campus has more of an under-served, county feel, while the main campus is the academic center. In fact the research angle is something that they are very proud of . They have a step-wise program to ensure those who have not designed a study from the ground up can be brought up to speed and accomplish something worthwhile there, and they said that those who have a desire to do a lot of research will not be held back with this structure. ED documentation is done by a m.ix of dictating at the main hospital and computer charting on the south campus. The ultrasound program is still new, but they hired faculty for it and started a fellowship. The trauma experience is typical in that the ED gets all airways, and splits running the trauma. Conference is protected on off-service as well as ED rotations. There is some emphasis on envenomation toxicology in the program (by necessity due to the location).
.
Facilities: Nice campus, vast hospital and very nice ED and ICUs. The ED is brand new, which seems to be a trend in residency programs I interviewed at..

.Interview Day: The PD was a very nice guy who was extremely easy to talk to. He is new in the job and the previous PD moved into the chairman spot I believe. The attendings are very happy and this satisfaction seems to flow downhill. This day initially looked to be pretty typical (interviews, tour, lunch) but in addition to the standard PD, 2 attendings and a resident, they had a surprise for us. They had us go through speed-dating style 5 minute interviews with 4 residents with cue card questions. That part was unusual, though none of it was painful since the folks were all very pleasant to talk to. The fact it was a surprise was a bit off-putting though. Lunch with all the residents was very comfortable. Definitely an active group with climbers and triathletes well represented....
.Summary: .
.Wow. I really liked this place. I'm predisposed to like small cities in the Southwest, which helps, but I felt very comfortable with these folks and could definitely see myself there. .

 

[rocketfrog03]

Thanks for all the great reviews above. Since it's been about 3/4 years since the last major update, can someone familiar with the program (preferably a current resident or recent grad) comment on the following?

• What are the average number and length of shifts (in hours) per month for each PGY year? Is there enough time to pursue academic/professional/extracurricular interests?
  
  
• Are shifts stratified by acuity (e.g., “trauma” shift or “resuscitative” shift), or is the entire spectrum of pathology/trauma seen on each shift?
  
  
• Does EM still own airway, and take turns with surgery on running trauma?
  
  
• Who does the emergency procedures (intubations, chest tubes, resuscitative thoracotomies, etc), is it shared with anesthesia/surgery residents based on an alternating schedule?
  
  
• Are there any emergency procedures that EM residents are not allowed to do (RSI, thoracotomies)?
  
  
• Is there frequent commuting between off-site locations (not including the dedicated training blocks)?
  
  
• How is the scut work for EM and non-EM months (e.g., transporting own pts to CT, obtaining vitals).

Thanks so much for your time and contribution.

 

[quickfeet]

Would like to know ^^^^

 

[Emapplicant 2017]

Hi, would love to hear a more current update from a current residents on the above questions from 2015 and also:
I think I remember you don't really work as a single team/pod during shifts - aka may present to different attendings?
How the whole waiting for anesthesia/trauma rotation before doing codes actually plays out - is it an issue if youre one of the people who doesnt do them til late?
What is patient population like?

 

[Meckle]

Hey guys, I'm almost done with my intern year at UA and am happy to share my thoughts. I love the program - we have great attendings (including some of the national experts on airway management, ultrasound, and pediatric EM), a tight-knit class, very accessible outdoors with tons of trails and nearby mountains to explore, amazing cost-of-living, top-notch ultrasound training, and a high-volume department with good acuity and variety of pathology. It’s a super well-balanced program in an awesome SW setting.

One thing that can be confusing at first is we have 3 programs here. The University Campus residency is the original UA program that has been around since the 80s. We have 16 residents per year in this program. 70% of our EM shifts are at the University Medical center 30% are at South Campus. The South Campus Residency does the reverse – 70% shifts at South Campus and 30% at University. As of this year they have 6 residents per year. Their curriculum has more built in Spanish and rural medicine. The Peds/EM program is a 5 year combined pediatric EM program that is based primarily at the University Campus.

All 3 programs have different residency directors, and they are all awesome. We share the same group of faculty. Curriculums are different between programs. Socially we are one big group. If you are applying in EM, It is worth interviewing at both the University and South Campus programs, as they are both great and similar in many ways, but you may find you fit better in one versus the other.

I’m at the University Campus program so my answers below will be tailored to it.

What are the average number and length of shifts (in hours) per month for each PGY year? Is there enough time to pursue academic/professional/extracurricular interests?
All shifts are 9 hours, you pick up new patients for 7.5 hours and then have 1.5 hours at the end to wrap things up and sign-out. PGY-1s work 20 days per 28 day block; PGY-2s work 19 days per block; PGY-3s work 18 per block. A few of the PGY-3 shifts are “resus captain” shifts where they help with codes, procedures, and teaching, but aren’t the primary doc for patients, meaning little to no charting. Also chief residents work 2 shifts less per block to make time for other responsibilities.

Are shifts stratified by acuity (e.g., “trauma” shift or “resuscitative” shift), or is the entire spectrum of pathology/trauma seen on each shift?
We are not stratified, you pick up whatever you want starting on day 1. This was a big draw for many of us, you get to see a good variety of patients each day and naturally step up to taking sicker patients without prescribed timelines or shifts. Interns typically don’t pick up the sickest patients in their first couple months, but that’s by choice. PGY-3s do have resus shifts as explained above, but their role is helping out other residents, not cherry picking the sickest patients. We have a dedicated pediatric ED and we have several shifts in it per block. We have a really strong pediatrics/EM program and as a result I think we get great peds training.

Does EM still own airway, and take turns with surgery on running trauma?
We definitely own airway. Anesthesia only comes to the ED if called, which is very rare. We have amazing airway faculty like John Sackles, great airway equipment and training. We have the airway on all traumas. As far as traumas go, we take all trauma greens (lower acuity trauma) and run them without any surgery presence (unless we call them). We share all the higher acuity trauma with the trauma surgery service, we are technically supposed to have right-sided procedures, depending on the attendings and trauma teams sometimes you have to be assertive for this to happen. Residents who are confident, ready, and/or have good relationships with the surgery residents seem to get the most procedures.

Who does the emergency procedures (intubations, chest tubes, resuscitative thoracotomies, etc), is it shared with anesthesia/surgery residents based on an alternating schedule?
Intubations are always us. Crics would be us as well. Any chest tubes on non-trauma or non-high acuity trauma pts are ours, we split the trauma tubes with surgery (see above). Surgery would be the team performing thoracotomies unless there were crazy circumstances like multiple thoracotomies happening at the same time.

Are there any emergency procedures that EM residents are not allowed to do (RSI, thoracotomies)?
We are allowed to do any procedure in our scope of practice, but if you perform a thoracotomy it would definitely be in conjunction with surgery – with surgery taking the lead. I remember before residency thinking thoracotomies were a badass procedure that I wanted to master, but now I think I’m a bit more humbled by the responsibility and risk of big surgical procedures. We learn thoracotomies in cadaver lab and I would do one if indications were right, but I sure would want surgery around if possible.
Ortho does our difficult reductions, but those guys are awesome and we have a really good relationship with them, so they will totally supervise you and let you do most reductions if you want. Often they will even ask us to try reductions ourselves before they come in, especially at South Campus.

Is there frequent commuting between off-site locations (not including the dedicated training blocks)?
We do 70% of our EM shifts at the University Campus (academic center, level one trauma center) and 30% at South Campus (more county-style). The campuses are about 15 mins from each other. If you live centrally you can be close to both. We do 3 rotations at the VA, which is about 18 mins drive from the university in the same direction as South Campus. So not a ton of commuting, and to make it even better Tucson doesn’t have much traffic.

How is the scut work for EM and non-EM months (e.g., transporting own pts to CT, obtaining vitals).
We don’t transport pts. RNs do all the vitals. Our scut-work is non-existent on EM months. On off-service rotations like trauma and ortho we do a lot of charting for the team, but not transport or vitals.

I think I remember you don't really work as a single team/pod during shifts - aka may present to different attendings?
Yeah there are 2 attendings on during most hours, you present even rooms to one attending and odd rooms to the other. It’s an easy system, and nice to be able to pick the brains of different attendings if needed.

How the whole waiting for anesthesia/trauma rotation before doing codes actually plays out - is it an issue if you’re one of the people who doesn’t do them till late?
I think this is referring to the fact that as interns you ideally complete your trauma and anesthesia rotations before being in charge of airways on traumas. It’s nice to have both rotations under your belt so that you understand the trauma process and get more airway experience. But if you don’t have them till really late in the year you can still manage trauma airways once you have enough experience to be competent. Honestly though, you will have so many opportunities to go to traumas. If you don’t get to it in the first 6 months it’s no big deal.

As far as codes in general go, you can absolutely run medical codes before doing those rotations. Like anything else, you gradually gain experience, confidence, and more independence with codes and really sick patients– we don’t have a hard set of requirements that determine when you can start running codes. Your classmates and attendings will be around for help, and it is expected to need more support earlier in residency.

What is patient population like?
At the University Campus, it is a mix of your average folks, pts with crazy or severe diseases who see specialists at UA, college kids, snowbirds who come into town to soak up the sun (and have acute medical problems), and trauma/transferred patients. Ethnically the population is mostly white, Latino, and native American, though Tucson does have a refugee population with immigrants from Africa.

The South Campus hospital serves a lower-income area and people who generally have more barriers to accessing the healthcare system, so the ED has a bit more of a county-feel to it. South Campus also sees more border-health – e.g. patients brought in after being out in the desert for days, in border patrol custody, etc. It also has the psychiatric hospital so has a generally has more psych patients. Also more Spanish-speaking patients. Less trauma, but no surgery presence at the traumas.

I used to think that we get less penetrating trauma than many places, but on my trauma rotation we had a steady supply of gun-shot wounds and stabbings. I feel like it’s plenty. We also see some real wild-west stuff – rattlesnake bites, scorpion stings, and cactus trauma.

If you have more questions let me know, I’d be happy to answer.

 

[emjz]

Hi guys, I'm a senior resident at the University of Arizona College of Medicine-Tucson Program. I used SDN a lot when applying so I thought I'd pay it back and let you know a little about my experience here.

• What are the average number and length of shifts (in hours) per month for each PGY year? Is there enough time to pursue academic/professional/extracurricular interests?
  • Interns do 20 shifts/month, Juniors 19 shifts/month and Seniors 18/month. All shifts are 9 hours, you pick up patients for 7.5 hours and clean up as much as you can before your shift ends. Somewhere in that 1.5 hours you also sign out your patients to the oncoming resident, different people like to organize this differently.
  • Is residency tough? Yes, but I feel like I have a reasonable amount of time to pursue non-clinical interests.
• Are shifts stratified by acuity (e.g., “trauma” shift or “resuscitative” shift), or is the entire spectrum of pathology/trauma seen on each shift?
  • Starting Junior year you are scheduled for shifts in the “fast forties” this is where lower acuity patients are sent and your learn how to really “move the meat” and disposition non-sick patients quickly. The tricky part is sometimes you’ll pick out the occasional ectopic, appendicitis, MI etc – but hey that’s EM, the atypical presentation seems to be more common sometimes. Starting senior year you continue to get occasional “fast forties” shifts and you also get “resuscitation captain” shifts/month. You basically are expected to help the juniors, interns and sometimes seniors resuscitate their critically ill patients. You get procedures that others may not have the time to do, and you also get to teach junior residents. About 70% of all our shifts are at the university (Tucson) campus and 30% are at south campus (formerly Kino). Overall, you will see more patients/hr with higher acuity at the university and I love it!
  • The entire spectrum of pathology is seen on all your “regular” shifts. We take pride that interns are allowed to see the sickest medical patients starting July 1.
• Does EM still own airway, and take turns with surgery on running trauma?
  • We COMPLETELY own the airway at all times. John Sakles is nationally recognized when it comes to managing the airway. You will master DL, VL, fiberoptic and surgical airways. I feel supremely confident in my skills. Junior Year I taught the ICU fellow how to fiberoptically awake intubate a crashing patient in septic shock on the floor (after we resuscitated first to avoid peri-intubation arrest J).
• Who does the emergency procedures (intubations, chest tubes, resuscitative thoracotomies, etc), is it shared with anesthesia/surgery residents based on an alternating schedule?
  • We do all procedures in medical patients. In trauma patients we have the right chest.
• Are there any emergency procedures that EM residents are not allowed to do (RSI, thoracotomies)?
  • None, when the opportunity presents itself, some of us have done resuscitative thoracotomies.
• Is there frequent commuting between off-site locations (not including the dedicated training blocks)?
  • On EM months we work a mix of shifts at both University and South, they’re about a 15 minute drive apart.
• How is the scut work for EM and non-EM months (e.g., transporting own pts to CT, obtaining vitals).
  • I take scut work to mean writing boring progress notes and DC summaries which unfortunately is the job of the intern (EM/ortho/surg) no matter who you are. I’ve never had to take a patient to CT. I have had to place IVs when nursing is unable – but I don’t consider that scut.

· I think I remember you don't really work as a single team/pod during shifts - aka may present to different attendings?

o We don’t currently have a pod system. 39 rooms are split even/odds between two attendings. You pick up patients as they are roomed. You will present to 2 different attendings. I don’t mind it because its just more time to learn different styles of practice.


· How the whole waiting for anesthesia/trauma rotation before doing codes actually plays out - is it an issue if you’re one of the people who doesn’t do them til late?

o It's not for medical codes but the higher acuity traumas. Like I alluded to above, you can run a code July 1 of intern year if you're up to it. I didn’t do trauma until my second to last rotation intern year. For those of us that have to do either anesthesia or trauma late, the PD allows us to start seeing the higher acuity traumas around mid-year. The thinking is that by then you’ve had enough exposure to critical airways in medical patients – which honestly are more difficult anyways.


· What is patient population like?

o The patient population is a good mix of low SES and complex patients re-presenting to their tertiary care center. We see plenty of sick patients. About 10-15% are spanish speaking only.


I'm always to happy answer any other questions anybody has!

 

[GoodDoggy]

Deleted

 

[Mr.doctER]

I did an elective here last year (university campus not south campus) and this was both my personal attitude towards that program, as well as several of the residents who I worked under and gave me their insight:

This used to be a great program but after years of poor leadership (Sam Keim is no longer program director) as well as a move from an academic center to a corporate healthcare model, the Banner UMC program is a program to stay away from.

Future of the program
Quick facts:
- Banner bought out University Medical Center and the academic residency contract ends December 2018
What this means? After this date, the future of a residency program at UofA/UMC is not guaranteed. This is extremely important, especially for anyone looking to start three years of training
- EMR - you are using Cerner, the worst electronic medical record system out there that very few other hospitals in the county use
- a very poor alumni: once you've graduated from the program, it seems that you're on your own looking for a job

In short, the residents who I spoke to were pretty disappointed in their program (main campus not south campus) and I got the sense that they would not have ranked it high given the opportunity to reapply. I thought the morale there was one of the worst I've seen versus other programs.

Residency Life
hours seemed pretty typical for ER residency programs - 8hr shifts - 21-18 shifts per month depending on PGY year.

Relationship with other services:
1) trauma - horrible. surgery runs almost all traumas that come in. ER faculty sit by and don't stick up for their residents when procedures need to be done (chest tubes, lines).
2) nursing - toxic. nurses mostly do not like/respect residents here. It makes for a depressing environment.
3) orthopedics, OB - you're doing their scut work while on their service
4) medicine, neuro etc. - pretty typical

Academics:
- this is an inbred faculty - ie. most faculty are graduates of the program.
What this means? "This is the most checked out faculty I've ever worked with." It also means that you don't get a broad clinical exposure since many faculty have been trained in the same program, from the same medical school.
- conferences are pretty bad from what I saw and again faculty don't show up. Most lectures are presented by overworked residents not many from faculty
- extremely poor leadership from the top (program director, assistant program director) means things don't seem to be changing anytime soon

In short, this is not program that seems to inspire emergency medicine residents. In the last 3 years, two residents have quit, one resident was forced out

Lifestyle:
-Most residents have families and are family oriented so keep that in mind
-I've seen much better camaraderie in other programs.
- Life outside work? You're in Tucson...high poverty, low education and in the top 50 worst American cities (USA Today ranking). Cheap rent though.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I did an elective here last year (university campus not south campus) and this was both my personal attitude towards that program, as well as several of the residents who I worked under and gave me their insight:

This used to be a great program but after years of poor leadership (Sam Keim is no longer program director) as well as a move from an academic center to a corporate healthcare model, the Banner UMC program is a program to stay away from.

Future of the program
Quick facts:
- Banner bought out University Medical Center and the academic residency contract ends December 2018
What this means? After this date, the future of a residency program at UofA/UMC is not guaranteed. This is extremely important, especially for anyone looking to start three years of training
- EMR - you are using Cerner, the worst electronic medical record system out there that very few other hospitals in the county use
- a very poor alumni: once you've graduated from the program, it seems that you're on your own looking for a job

In short, the residents who I spoke to were pretty disappointed in their program (main campus not south campus) and I got the sense that they would not have ranked it high given the opportunity to reapply. I thought the morale there was one of the worst I've seen versus other programs.

Residency Life
hours seemed pretty typical for ER residency programs - 8hr shifts - 21-18 shifts per month depending on PGY year.

Relationship with other services:
1) trauma - horrible. surgery runs almost all traumas that come in. ER faculty sit by and don't stick up for their residents when procedures need to be done (chest tubes, lines).
2) nursing - toxic. nurses mostly do not like/respect residents here. It makes for a depressing environment.
3) orthopedics, OB - you're doing their scut work while on their service
4) medicine, neuro etc. - pretty typical

Academics:
- this is an inbred faculty - ie. most faculty are graduates of the program.
What this means? "This is the most checked out faculty I've ever worked with." It also means that you don't get a broad clinical exposure since many faculty have been trained in the same program, from the same medical school.
- conferences are pretty bad from what I saw and again faculty don't show up. Most lectures are presented by overworked residents not many from faculty
- extremely poor leadership from the top (program director, assistant program director) means things don't seem to be changing anytime soon

In short, this is not program that seems to inspire emergency medicine residents. In the last 3 years, two residents have quit, one resident was forced out

Lifestyle:
-Most residents have families and are family oriented so keep that in mind
-I've seen much better camaraderie in other programs.
- Life outside work? You're in Tucson...high poverty, low education and in the top 50 worst American cities (USA Today ranking). Cheap rent though.

Interesting to see a negative take - so many of these reviews are so fawning and positive.

Would love to hear a rebuttal from someone who felt differently.

 

[deleted497653]

I’ve lived in the area but didn’t ’t train at the UofA. Banner recently in the last few years bought out University. Most of the dissatisfaction at Banner has been with non EM specialties. Some of docs left, again mostly non EM. Being the only academic center in the area it is hard to get a faculty job at the University. There are other local hospitals though so if you want to stay in the area, you can easily get a job at the other hospitals but they are all community.

The university has a good reputation in the community. Can’t comment on ortho except to say the hand surgeon there, DaSilva, is a pain to consult when I’ve had to transfer to him.

Tucson is not a big city but it’s clean, people are friendly. Don’t come here expecting variety in good restaurants or varied culture. Not a lot of crime depending on where you live. Not sure why someone would label it “worst place” to live. I’ve been to bad places in the US and this place is far from the worst.

Mostly older white and all age Hispanic population- mostly Mexicans. I’ve noticed that the malpractice risk tends to be higher than average. Haven’t had a personal experience from this but coworkers talk about lawsuits more frequently than other places I’ve lived. Don’t have hard numbers on this but where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

 

[throwaway1!]

Oh, man. One of these threads. Someone trashes a program and people come out of the woodwork to defend it. Oh well, so be it. Read and make your own decisions:

tl/dr: The interpersonal problems in leadership and nursing this person noted are completely discongruent with my experience. The sky did not fall with Banner. Some people will love living in Tucson, some people will hate it. The quality of the education is solid and the people are great.


Recent graduate of the program here, throwaway account but post frequently under another name. I'm sorry to hear this poster didn't have a positive experience, but I find the recent review at odds with my experience.

Sam Keim hasn't been the program director in a long time. I'm not even sure Sam was PD when this thread was started over a decade ago but I don't recall when the transition happened. I'm not aware of any generalized dissent or frustration with Al Fiorello or the APD's. The feeling that there is "extremely poor leadership" was not at all my experience or a feeling shared to me by any of my colleagues.

Banner Health is a multi-state hospital system and they did acquire the university hospital system in Tucson. The future of healthcare in the US is going to be a few large hospital systems, this is happening all over the US. As a tangent. don't confuse this with the residency being run by a corporate EM contracting group. With any major change, there is a smoothing out process and some frustrations but the biggest tangible change I noticed as a resident? My salary went up.

I don't know what the poster means about the academic residency contract ending in 2018. ACGME credentialing has never been at risk as far as I know and that's a straightforward thing to ask the leadership about if you're worried. Banner theoretically cutting the residency? The ED is one of the most financially successful departments and maintaining an EM residency fits Banner's system's level need to hire more emergency physicians. I don't know anyone who is worried about the future of the residency program's existence.

Everyone misses Epic. Cerner is adequate, if you think it's the worst you haven't used enough EMR's.

Alumni Network: I didn't talk to any of my peers about the specifics of their job search. When I would ask people what they wanted to do next year, they would say "Work in area X." When I checked at the end of the year, they were off to go work in area X. If I wanted to change jobs, I have contacts all over the country that are historically difficult to break into. Our graduates seem to have a solid reputation.

The shifts are 9 hours total, you pick-up for 7.5 hours, sign out at 8 hours, and have 1 hour to wrap up any loose threads. Unless they've changed the staffing, PGY1 = 20/block, PGY2 = 19/block, and PGY3 = 16/block and 2 resuscitation/teaching shifts per block.

The ED runs the airway in all traumas. Sharing of chest tubes and central lines during traumas has been a frustration. The working relationship with trauma was adequate and you will leave knowing how to handle trauma comfortably but it's not a strength of the program.

The pediatric ED nurses can be a little protective and nurses seem to push back a little more to residents of opposite campuses but my experience was nowhere near toxic. Nurses are friendly, cooperative, and come to the resident with problems rather than bypassing to the attending.

Off-service rotations, you're an intern on other services and do what interns due outside of EM a lot of which is scut. Overall, it's a relatively short portion of the intern year. You get your deliveries, some fracture reductions, learn how your consultants think, and build a little rapport before moving on. I doubt it's much different anywhere else.

The faculty is relatively inbred. People who come to Tucson tend to like Tucson and want to stay here. Some go off elsewhere for a bit and come back. There are faculty who have worked or trained in New York, California, Texas, Guam, Africa, rural Arizona, etc. There is a wide variety in practice patterns and previous clinical experience. A "checked out" faculty wasn't my experience.

Conference could use more faculty participation. A core group shows up, others come on occasion. Residents need a chance to present talks and there are a lot of residents in the program, so a decent chunk of conference day is resident lectures by necessity. Conference was adequate and constantly being adjusted to improve it. No one I knew was stressed about passing the boards or feeling inadequately educated.

Two residents did quit. As far as I know, one had just finished a previous residency and decided 3 more years of residency wasn't the right choice for them, the other had a previous well-paying career and decided clinical medicine wasn't what they wanted to do with their life. One resident switched to another specialty after EM proved to be the wrong choice for them.

I never felt camaraderie was lacking. People always got together for family events, coordinated stuff outdoors, etc. There are a lot of families in program as the program is family friendly and actually manages to be compatible with having children during residency. I never found this to cause a lack of social activity or camaraderie though.

Tucson is Tucson. You'll like it if you like warm weather, the outdoors, low cost of living, smaller cities, and food/beer (between snowbirds and a college campus, the food and beer scene is fairly solid). If you always wanted to live in New York or LA, you'll probably hate it. I enjoyed never having to dig my car out of snow in-between before a 12 hour ICU day, living in a home, and having disposable income to travel on vacation or buy some fun outdoor toys.