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University of Florida's match situation

Discussion in 'Psychiatry' started by silbenny, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. silbenny

    silbenny Junior Member
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    I thought I'd post this information here for many reasons. As you all will soon find out, the U. of Fl psych program filled 0 of 7 spots this year. Believe me, this was an extreme surprise to everyone in our proud program. After the initial shock, the program pinpointed what happened. It turns out the University's office responsible for inputting our rank order list into the computer never did it (we do know who was responsible); therefore we never certified anyone on our list. This is akin to the medical students never certifying their rank order list on ERAS. As you can imagine this hasn't gone over too well with the residents. We are in the midst of filling the spots and seeing what we can do about our precarious situation.
     
  2. RustNeverSleeps

    RustNeverSleeps Walker, Texas Ranger
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    That's really unfortunate, but it's such a huge mistake that it's almost unbelievable. Does everyone in the program believe that that is what really happened?
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    silbenny

    silbenny Junior Member
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    Yes it really happened- the person who's directly responsible (believe me, others share the blaim also) has apologized to the program. Further proof was a student who only ranked us and didn't match! The student called us directly and said what happened???? Several of our own UF students who have family and homes here and definitely put us #1 will soon confirm all of this also.
    All of the residents are in disbelief- you'd think that there are safeguards for this from happening- apparantly not :confused:
     
  4. sunnysgang

    sunnysgang New Member
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    Thats incredulous.
     
  5. Adam_K

    Adam_K Indentured
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    Unbelievable.

    Maybe it's my OC traits, but I checked my list, oh at least a couple dozen times before and after certifying it. I'd think that a program director would exercise an equal amount of care with their list. If the PD delegated their responsibility to someone else, they are just as responsible.
     
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  6. RustNeverSleeps

    RustNeverSleeps Walker, Texas Ranger
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    Agree. If this story really is true, I'm surprised that it hasn't cost someone his/her job. It's an incredibly egregious error, and a program's needing to scramble for all of its positions could hurt its reputation for years.
     
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  7. ny_ny

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  8. ny_ny

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    sorry.. my response was repeated a few times
     
  9. ny_ny

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  10. ny_ny

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    "Further proof was a student who only ranked us and didn't match! The student called us directly and said what happened???? Several of our own UF students who have family and homes here and definitely put us #1 will soon confirm all of this also."

    Isn't it ironic that those students who thought they were playing it safe by ranking more programs will get screwed and match somewhere farther away at programs they ranked lower than U of Fl.... and the student who was risking it by only ranking ONE program (U of Fl) will likely be able to end up there through the scramble. People probably thought he/she was crazy for ranking just one program but it ended up paying off!

    This was a huge oversight and I'm sure the PD is embarrassed about the whole situation... maybe this should be addressed by the NRMP so that in the future if they see that a program hasn't submitted a certified list, they can contact the program with an email along the lines of "What's up docs??"
     
  11. ny_ny

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  12. HugeDebt

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    It's true and it's absolutely pathetic. Both in the fact that it happened, and in the department's totally unprofessional manner of how they are now handling certain aspects of the situation.
     
  13. Poho02

    Poho02 New Member
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    I ranked this program #1 and I am in complete shock. Thanks for the heads up though.. Would have been terrible to find this information out tomorrow when I get my envelope.
     
  14. edieb

    edieb Senior Member
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    Just because a student only ranked you doesn't mean that the program list was not submitted and verified. For example, he could have ranked your site #1 but your site may not have ranked him at all... Sounds fishy...
     
  15. HugeDebt

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    So what's your alternative explanation to this, that UF decided to not rank anyone and thought it would be fun to fill an entire class with people who can't match in a non-competitive specialty like psych. Take it from a UF med student, it happened, and it's a shame. Whoever said in one of the previous posts that this will hurt UF's reputation for years is probably, and unfortunately, dead on. It definitely makes me think about where I will rank them, if at all, when the time comes.
     
  16. Chewbacca Jung

    Chewbacca Jung Walking Carpet
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    just think about the consequences.

    Supposing that the other 6 people who would have ended up in florida have matched, and they end up going to their 2nd, 3rd, 4th... choice. They each knock a person out of those slots. Then those people knock another 6 out of the slots that they match in, and the chain reaction keeps going until 6 people who may be completely unaffiliated with florida end up not matching. In fact some they may not even be in the psych match, if some people double apply. Hundred's of people's lives and careers have drastically been altered by one person's mistake- by not pushing a button. Crazy. (and i know crazy, now that I've matched in psych...)

    ...takes a second to say good bye, say goodbye, oh oh oh...

    ...push the button and pull the plug, say good bye, oh oh oh....

    ...say good bye....
     
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  17. Dredbolt

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    Just seconding Chewbacca's point that this error, if it was an error, likely has ripple effects across the country, with students matching to places that are suboptimal (in their minds). It goes without saying that this is problematic for those students who ranked UF #1 and would have matched there, but for the program's oversight. But every single one of us participating in the match this year who does not match at their #1 ranked program may also have been victims of this bungle, because of the way applicants may have been bumped around in the match algorithm. I may be maximalizing the repercussions, which at this point are only theoretical, but it's still regrettable. Maybe it will work out for everyone in the end, but more importantly, maybe it will incite some reform of the system, as one single program's error should not have such an impact on the fates of so many. Well, no sense in getting worked up over it at this point. Good luck all.
     
  18. Dredbolt

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  19. maranatha

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    Nothing like a little U2 to make a point--early U2 at that. :thumbup: Chewy, I'm liking the song quotes during the last few days...
     
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  20. Chewbacca Jung

    Chewbacca Jung Walking Carpet
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    ... its the puppets pulling the strings....
     
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  21. RustNeverSleeps

    RustNeverSleeps Walker, Texas Ranger
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    A program at my school had a similar problem when they aimed to0 high and only ranked people who matched other plays, choosing not even to rank many appropriate candidates. It is possible for a program's error to be egotism, thinking they will get better people than they actually could. I am not saying that this is what happened, but it's possible, and one applicant's ranking only Florida and not matching there doesn't prove either scenario right or wrong.
     
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  22. Chewbacca Jung

    Chewbacca Jung Walking Carpet
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    Are we seriously questioning the validity of silbenny's position? I can understand if florida only matched 2-3 of it's slots, or even one. But zero? I mean, I may have doubted before, but now that sga has matched, I'm a fan of probability. At least someone would have gotten into florida if they were participating in the match.

    If you want to start conspiracy theories however, they may have had alterrier motives in not participating in the match, though I'm not disposed to say...
     
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  23. RustNeverSleeps

    RustNeverSleeps Walker, Texas Ranger
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    No, I was not questioning the validity of silbenny's claim. I don't think there is any advantage to saying that your program is too incompetent to prepare a match list properly v. needing to scramble for other reasons. (I guess I don't have Chewbacca's mind for conspiracy theories! :D) I was just responding to the other poster another means by which these results could occur, since s/he didn't seem to realize that. It's not likely, sure, but it's also pretty unlikely that (1) a program would not certify its list and (2) no one would catch the mistake until it is too late. A very weird situation, and hopefully no applicants have been very adversely affected by it.
     
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  24. i61164

    i61164 Polar Bear, MD
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    To me, this sounds like a disgruntled U of F employee screwing over thier employer by not submitting the list. Ouch. That's a tough price to pay for whatever they may have done to piss off that worker. It's like insulting a chef. Do you want to risk getting spit in your food?

    I also found it ironic that the person that took the unadvisable risk of only ranking U of F will be the one that didn't get screwed over in this situation since they will undoubtedly be able to scramble into the spot that they wanted. Or maybe they won't be better off if all of their coworkers have skeletons in their closets or if U of F can't fill all of the spots. Who knows.
     
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  25. raspberry swirl

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    to comment further on the ripple effect, what about those students who couples matched? if i dont get my first choice, then neither does my boyfriend, who is matching for PMR. if my position gets goofed up in the match, so does his. and then by default, so does everyone matching for PMR ... and then everyone in other specialties who is couples matching wtih someone in PMR ... and it goes on and on. so while in REALITY, the only people who are probably NOTICEABLY affected are those who ranked UofFl, their partners in couples matches and those who ranked the same programs as those who ranked UofFl (oh geez that already sounds like a lot of people), THEORETICALLY, its really DOES affect absolutely everyone in the match.

    Re-do!

     
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  26. CariBeaner

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    Wow- I am so glad I canceled my interview instead of paying for flying from California, renting a hotel room, getting a rental car, and possibly falling in love with a program that could have seriously messed up my list like it did to many many many people. I feel so bad for everyone who ranked it number one and planned their lives accordingly. I hope it turns out for the best for all of you anyway!
     
  27. MBK2003

    MBK2003 Senior Member
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    When I matched in 2003 there was a similar problem at UWisconsin's ortho program. Apparently the program coordinator only certified a list with the top 5 candidates for 5 slots, and the program was informed on Monday before the match that they had 5 unfilled slots. There was a huge backlash within the residency program and on the ortho forums. There was also another wrinkle because the program had filled a PGY-2 spot to fill outside the match earlier that month, so for the first 1-2 hours of people calling about the PGY-1 slot, they were told "it" had already been filled and informed not to fax their paperwork. I recall that in that case the NRMP was not willing to rerun the algorithm due to the program's error, so people were stuck with what they got.

    MBK2003
     
  28. dream303

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    I agree that the incident is very upsetting for the people who participated in the match as well as the program itself. But aren’t we forgetting the simple fact, that we are all humans, and we do make mistakes, and yes some of them affect many people. As medical professionals, we should probably understand it more than others. Doctors make mistakes everyday, everyday people die due to the medical mistakes, and even the best physicians in the world make mistakes. Does it mean that every physician who makes an error should loose a license? Should we start berating malpractice lawyers? The program is trying its best to make the best out of this messy situation, even though it is not directly their error. So may be we should all stop pointing fingers and advocating for firing people.
    UF is a great place to be. The program director could probably win “the Best program director in the country” award, if such nomination existed. And the program coordinators treat the residence as their own children.
    The residence are getting great education and are truly happy. And after all, things work in the mysterious way, may be today’s disappointment will be tomorrow’s blessing. Good luck to you all.
     
  29. RustNeverSleeps

    RustNeverSleeps Walker, Texas Ranger
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    Interesting first post...
     
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  30. pillowhead

    pillowhead Senior Member
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    Similar thing happened at univ of kentucky last year for their anesthesiology program. this is cut and paste directly from their website for this year. i can't believe things like this happen.

    As you review other sources of information concerning Anesthesiology residency programs, you may discover that our program had several unfilled positions in the 2006 match. We want you to be aware that this happened due to an undetected error that occurred during the on-line submission of our rank order lists to the NRMP. As a result, only seven names were listed on the rank order list for our nine PGY1 positions. Based on feedback we received later from many disappointed applicants, we believe all of our residency positions would have filled through the match had this computer error not occurred. Despite this setback, we received over 550 applications via the scramble for our unfilled positions and were able to fill all the positions with quality applicants who had academic credentials equivalent to that of our successful match applicants in the previous two years. We are providing you with this information because we do not want this year’s match results to deter you from considering our residency program.
     
  31. Hurricane

    Hurricane Senior Member
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    I bet that guy from NUMB3RS could figure it all out...
     
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  32. sunlioness

    sunlioness Fierce. Proud. Strong
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    That's what I was thinking. Yes, they may get their #1, but their colleagues could be complete duds. And this will hurt U of F for another 4 years because who wants to go where their senior residents are duds? Even if they're not and are perfectly good residents, many may not be willing to risk it.
     
  33. supercat

    supercat Junior Member
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    any updates?
     
  34. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
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    UF is still there, and has not moved.

    :laugh:

    They should take a page from UK and post a message, because it will definitely stick out next year.

    -t
     
  35. Dramkinola

    Dramkinola Psychiatry Resident
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    i read the letter UF's PD sent to all the other programs...
    my program coordinator showed me...
    so it's true...
    someone forgot to enter the list...
    his last line was, "someone FOULED up..." or something to that effect...
    i bet he was thinking another F word...
     
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  36. MD3:16

    MD3:16 Junior Member
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    is this program malignant? some people tell that the program director isn't very nice and uf can be very academically rigouros?
     
  37. RookieRoo

    RookieRoo Valued Member
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    The UF program is certainly not malignant. I happen to know most of the residents and faculty members and they are all very down-to-earth and approachable. The residents are friends with each other and often party together. You can joke around with the faculty members. It is a very nurturing program. As for the match situation, the class is filling with good people. I would not be afraid to rank this program next season if you are considering the SE.
     

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