University of Missouri-Columbia vs. St. Louis University

[Micro115]

Can anyone enlighten me on the positives and negatives of each program?

Here's what I have so far:

-It seems like SLU is affiliated with a great burn center, children's hospital (great peds surgery opportunities), and VA, while Missouri-Columbia also is affiliated with a VA, in addition to a cancer center and level 1 trauma center (probably less peds but great exposure to everything else).
-SLU seems to have more fellowship opportunities at its own site (Peds, CT, critical care, Plastics, Uro), although Missouri-Columbia still has CT, vascular, and burn.
-Boards pass rates are slightly higher at SLU than Missouri-Columbia but both are still below 60%.

Anyone know how well residents are treated at each site? Technical skills? Where do the graduates go (I think all websites should post this!)?

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[SLUser11]

Can anyone enlighten me on the positives and negatives of each program?

Here's what I have so far:

-It seems like SLU is affiliated with a great burn center, children's hospital (great peds surgery opportunities), and VA, while Missouri-Columbia also is affiliated with a VA, in addition to a cancer center and level 1 trauma center (probably less peds but great exposure to everything else).
-SLU seems to have more fellowship opportunities at its own site (Peds, CT, critical care, Plastics, Uro), although Missouri-Columbia still has CT, vascular, and burn.
-Absite scores are slightly higher at SLU than Missouri-Columbia but both are still below 60%.

Anyone know how well residents are treated at each site? Technical skills? Where do the graduates go (I think all websites should post this!)?

You're looking at board pass rates, not ABSITE scores. There is no good resource for comparing ABSITE scores among different programs, although usually if they don't bring it up on interview day, it's because the scores suck.....so you should always ASK about ABSITE and board pass rates during the interview......

I sent a PM to you with more specific info about the two programs. I feel like my screen name prevents me from giving any unbiased advice in the open forum.

I guess my suggestion would be to go to both, since they're only 2 hours away from eachother, and get a better feel, because they are fairly different environments.

 

[Thrombomodulin]

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[Blade28]

Are you interviewing at both places? Definitely ask the residents during the pre-interview dinner.

 

[Micro115]

Are you interviewing at both places? Definitely ask the residents during the pre-interview dinner.

Well, I wanted to interview at just one of the above places b/c I've been getting more than enough interview offers! Of course I'm happy that I can now pick and choose, but now, I'm having a hard time cutting down. So I'd love to hear what anyone would have to say about these programs so I can continue narrowing down.

And thanks so much for the PM, SLUser! Really appreciate it.

 

[Blade28]

If you can schedule their interviews close together (or back-to-back) and you're already going to be in town for one, I'd do both. I tried to schedule blocks like these to cut down on costs...plus I interviewed very widely since I was worried about the relatively recent increase in competitiveness of G Surg.

 

[size_tens]

I'm a 4th year at SLU also going into surgery so I can offer some insight. In general I think SLU residents are quite well trained. In particular vascular, peds and transplant are stronger than I've seen at other programs. As is typical of urban university hospitals, trauma is a very busy service. SICU rotations can be painful. If the location works for you I think SLU might be worth a visit.

 

[Pilot Doc]

. In particular vascular, peds and transplant are stronger than I've seen at other programs.

The SLU program has had difficulty retaining faculty, at least at the VA and
Cardinal Glennon (the Children's Hospital). Unless there has been a recent and dramatic change in their peds faculty, I find it very hard to believe that the SLU peds experience is above average.

 

[maxheadroom]

The SLU program has had difficulty retaining faculty, at least at the VA and
Cardinal Glennon (the Children's Hospital). Unless there has been a recent and dramatic change in their peds faculty, I find it very hard to believe that the SLU peds experience is above average.

Agree with above. I have no direct exposure to SLU, but a friend did his intern year in G-Surg there before progressing to his definitive area of expertise. He was unimpressed by the program and has reported that there is a faculty retention problem.

 

[size_tens]

SLU has had faculty retention problems, especially with peds surgery. However we did pick up a new peds surgeon this year. I wouldn't say the peds experience is stellar but we do have a dedicated pediatric hospital, which many programs lack.

 

[SLUser11]

The SLU program has had difficulty retaining faculty, at least at the VA and
Cardinal Glennon (the Children's Hospital). Unless there has been a recent and dramatic change in their peds faculty, I find it very hard to believe that the SLU peds experience is above average.

Maybe some of these problems occurred after I left SLU. I just looked at the website, though:

The VA has the same surgeons as when I was there (Multiple vascular, and Johnson for General/Oncology), at least according to the website. The only name I don't see is that of a young female surgeon that didn't add much to the training program anyway.

The Pediatric team looks the same, too with Bower and Keller, as well as Fiore for Peds CT. I can only assume that this experience is still positive, since they have a nice, big peds hospital and a busy service. However, it does appear that there isn't a pediatric fellowship anymore (according to FREIDA), which is new since I left.

I think the experience depends on what you consider "above average." A lot of the talk on this board involves residents struggling to even get their pediatric numbers, and having to call themselves "Surgeon Jr." when maybe it's a stretch. SLU has a pediatric transplant, CV, and general surgery experience, with a dedicated resident team of 3-4. It seems above average to me.

The main faculty I know of that has left was Grossmann, the previous PD, who ironically for this conversation went to Mizzou, which was his alma mater.





I personally had no interest in staying at SLU, which was 50% due to me hating the city, and 50% due to my impression of the program. To me, it represents an average urban academic midwest program. I doubt they will ever be top shelf, but I definitely think that the training is solid, as the 2 sets of chiefs that I knew were mostly excellent.

Honestly, after interviewing at 14 places, and rotating at a few others as well, I think SLU is better than its reputation. The same goes for the med school and its curriculum. I'm very happy with the training I received, especially after experiencing students and residents from many schools across the country, and seeing where they're at.


Of course, I'm not happy with the debt of a private medical school education.....

 

[Pilot Doc]

The Pediatric team looks the same, too with Bower and Keller.

Both looooong since moved to WashU/St Louis Children's

http://www.stlouischildrens.org/tabid/96/itemid/1681/Surgery.aspx

Trust me - the saga of peds surgery staffing at Glennon is not pretty. (Nor is the VA for that matter)