University of Vermont vs. University of Miami

[PNWMed2020]

Hello!

I've recently been accepted off the waitlist at the University of Vermont College of Medicine, and currently hold a spot at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. I have one more week to decide, so I'm hoping some of you can help me weigh some of the pros and cons.

As a bit of background, my interest is to pursue a residency in pediatrics or internal medicine, although of course I don't really know for sure. I am drawn/prefer large cities, but I am open to try living in a small town for a short period. My ultimate goal is to practice in the Pacific Northwest, as my family all lives in Seattle and my parents health is a concern. Of course, cost is important to me, but I would be willing to make sacrifices for a school that would prepare me best for the future. Let me know if I missed anything you might want to know!

UVM:

• Beginning in March of the third year, students are able to design their own rotations for almost the rest of their education. As a result, I like the flexibility to pursue multiple away rotations in cities along the west coast. I hear a positive away rotation performance can be very favorable for the visiting student's residency application.
• Step 1 completed mid-way through second year to allow for more clinical experiences
• Cost of attendance: ~80k/year (financial aid TBD, likely all loans)
• Honors pass, pass fail
• Burlington, VT is cold and a small town, but friendly for the outdoor types

Miami:

• Students are allowed only 3 months in clinical externships
• Step 1 June of second year
• Cost of attendance: ~70k/year (all loans)
• Pass, fail (students ranked)
  
• Miami is a lively city close to the ocean and rich in culture. Heat and humidity will be no problem.

Conclusion: I can see myself succeeding at both schools, so to me I think it comes down to one deciding factor (correct me if I'm missing anything): away rotations. Is the extra cost worth it? I would appreciate hearing from third and graduating fourth year students who can tell me how important (assuming solid boards, EC, grades, etc) away rotations may be when hoping to match to a specific region? Is almost an entire year worth of away rotations too much? Is only 3 months enough?

Thank you for the help!

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[kavorca]

I am a little surprised that a school would let you do so many away rotations. I haven't heard or more than 4 months away, but I do have very limited knowledge. You will prob need to do at least one month in the Northwest to break into the region, although if your app is good, it may not be necessary for less competitive specialties.

 

[mpdoc2]

Hello!

I've recently been accepted off the waitlist at the University of Vermont College of Medicine, and currently hold a spot at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine. I have one more week to decide, so I'm hoping some of you can help me weigh some of the pros and cons.

As a bit of background, my interest is to pursue a residency in pediatrics or internal medicine, although of course I don't really know for sure. I am drawn/prefer large cities, but I am open to try living in a small town for a short period. My ultimate goal is to practice in the Pacific Northwest, as my family all lives in Seattle and my parents health is a concern. Of course, cost is important to me, but I would be willing to make sacrifices for a school that would prepare me best for the future. Let me know if I missed anything you might want to know!

UVM:

• Beginning in March of the third year, students are able to design their own rotations for almost the rest of their education. As a result, I like the flexibility to pursue multiple away rotations in cities along the west coast. I hear a positive away rotation performance can be very favorable for the visiting student's residency application.
• Step 1 completed mid-way through second year to allow for more clinical experiences
• Cost of attendance: ~80k/year (financial aid TBD, likely all loans)
• Honors pass, pass fail
• Burlington, VT is cold and a small town, but friendly for the outdoor types

Miami:

• Students are allowed only 3 months in clinical externships
• Step 1 June of second year
• Cost of attendance: ~70k/year (all loans)
• Pass, fail (students ranked)
  
• Miami is a lively city close to the ocean and rich in culture. Heat and humidity will be no problem.

Conclusion: I can see myself succeeding at both schools, so to me I think it comes down to one deciding factor (correct me if I'm missing anything): away rotations. Is the extra cost worth it? I would appreciate hearing from third and graduating fourth year students who can tell me how important (assuming solid boards, EC, grades, etc) away rotations may be when hoping to match to a specific region? Is almost an entire year worth of away rotations too much? Is only 3 months enough?

Thank you for the help!

Where you goto medical school will way heavily on where you get in for residency. I'd definitely pick UMiami over Vermont.

 

[Mansamusa]

Are you from the PNW? If so that would make it so you have connections there already. If not, you don't know where you'll end up wanting to be and you may end up wanting to go into a specialty where you just go where you match and don't have too much say in location. Miami has a better rep (though UVM is still great and has good matches), so it may put you in a better position to choose your location.

I would still try to do an away in PNW or some kind of project up there to get your name out. Miami is far from PNW and their experience with Miami students may be limited (same probably goes for UVM)

And $40k savings + getting to enjoy beautiful sunny weather (S.A.D is a real thing and having sun induced happiness will be great during med school) seals the deal

 

[PNWMed2020]

I am a little surprised that a school would let you do so many away rotations. I haven't heard or more than 4 months away, but I do have very limited knowledge. You will prob need to do at least one month in the Northwest to break into the region, although if your app is good, it may not be necessary for less competitive specialties.

Yeah, I was too! Here's the link and confirmed by a graduating fourth year: https://www.uvm.edu/medicine/mededucation/?Page=clinicalexperiences.html&SM=students_menu.html

Are you from the PNW? If so that would make it so you have connections there already. If not, you don't know where you'll end up wanting to be and you may end up wanting to go into a specialty where you just go where you match and don't have too much say in location. Miami has a better rep (though UVM is still great and has good matches), so it may put you in a better position to choose your location.

I would still try to do an away in PNW or some kind of project up there to get your name out. Miami is far from PNW and their experience with Miami students may be limited (same probably goes for UVM)

And $40k savings + getting to enjoy beautiful sunny weather (S.A.D is a real thing and having sun induced happiness will be great during med school) seals the deal

Yes, from the PNW. But connections here? I'm not too sure about that haha. I recently graduated from a school on the east coast.

To follow up on your point, if I attend Miami I will absolutely do an away rotation at my home state. But UVM actually matches very well with OHSU and the University of Washington, for some reason! Do you think experience with students is a factor? I'm not surprised Washington does not have much exposure to Miami students, but UVM I feel is known

 

[Mansamusa]

To follow up on your point, if I attend Miami I will absolutely do an away rotation at my home state. But UVM actually matches very well with OHSU and the University of Washington, for some reason! Do you think experience with students is a factor? I'm not surprised Washington does not have much exposure to Miami students, but UVM I feel is known

I meant connections as in they know that you a have a legitimate interest in doing residency there rather than just applying broadly

https://depts.washington.edu/uwmedres/people/roster.htm#r2 And actually there is a UMiami grad here. Looking at Miami's match list, it looks like students go for big names and, if not a big name, good weather. Which is why there might not be a lot going to PNW. I'm sure you can do well from UMiami and UMiami is more likely to open doors you didn't expect to want to go through

 

[PNWMed2020]

I meant connections as in they know that you a have a legitimate interest in doing residency there rather than just applying broadly

https://depts.washington.edu/uwmedres/people/roster.htm#r2 And actually there is a UMiami grad here. Looking at Miami's match list, it looks like students go for big names and, if not a big name, good weather. Which is why there might not be a lot going to PNW. I'm sure you can do well from UMiami and UMiami is more likely to open doors you didn't expect to want to go through

Gotcha. You're absolutely right, it could be a selective bias. Thank you!

 

[Spector1]

miami

 

[ofthesaints]

Disclosure: I'll be attending UVM in the Fall.

Which would you prefer?
Location: Beach/Large City (UMiami) vs. Mountains & Lake/Small City (UVM)
Weather: 2 seasons (UMiami) vs. 4 seasons (UVM)
Class Size: 200 (UMiami) vs. 115 (UVM)
Cost of Attendance: $66,500/yr (UMiami) vs. $80,000/yr (UVM)
Curriculum: 2-year pre-clinical/2-year clinical (UMiami) vs. 1.5 year pre-clinical/2.5-year clinical (UVM)
Political Leaning: Moderately Democratic (Miami) vs. Very Liberal (Burlington)
Residency Placement in PNW (WA & OR): 2016: 0/~160; 2015: 1/~145; 2011-2016: 9 students total (UMiami) vs. 2016: 10/104; 2015: 10/109; 2014: 11/106 (UVM)

I'd start there and see where you lean. If doing your residency in the PNW is that important to you, I think UVM's track record for students matching in the PNW speaks for itself relative to UMiami's. It took UMiami 6 years to get close to the amount UVM sends to the PNW in one year of the match. Now, is this the case of UVM grads wanting a similar environment to Burlington and UMiami grads not sharing the same sentiment? Possibly. But something I would consider is that the PNW hospitals know what they are getting from UVM grads. Also, they seem to be quite happy with them according to the consistent numbers they are taking per year. Thus, I would argue that they'd be more open to taking a student from a school they are more familiar with, but that's just my opinion.

I wish you could've gone to the Second Look Day at UVM. It was way more immersive and eye opening than our tour on interview day.

In the end, it all comes down to where you think you'd be the happiest for 4 years and the many years after that. I hope you make the best decision for yourself.

 

[PNWMed2020]

Disclosure: I'll be attending UVM in the Fall.

Which would you prefer?
Location: Beach/Large City (UMiami) vs. Mountains & Lake/Small City (UVM)
Weather: 2 seasons (UMiami) vs. 4 seasons (UVM)
Class Size: 200 (UMiami) vs. 115 (UVM)
Cost of Attendance: $66,500/yr (UMiami) vs. $80,000/yr (UVM)
Curriculum: 2-year pre-clinical/2-year clinical (UMiami) vs. 1.5 year pre-clinical/2.5-year clinical (UVM)
Political Leaning: Moderately Democratic (Miami) vs. Very Liberal (Burlington)
Residency Placement in PNW (WA & OR): 2016: 0/~160; 2015: 1/~145; 2011-2016: 9 students total (UMiami) vs. 2016: 10/104; 2015: 10/109; 2014: 11/106 (UVM)

I'd start there and see where you lean. If doing your residency in the PNW is that important to you, I think UVM's track record for students matching in the PNW speaks for itself relative to UMiami's. It took UMiami 6 years to get close to the amount UVM sends to the PNW in one year of the match. Now, is this the case of UVM grads wanting a similar environment to Burlington and UMiami grads not sharing the same sentiment? Possibly. But something I would consider is that the PNW hospitals know what they are getting from UVM grads. Also, they seem to be quite happy with them according to the consistent numbers they are taking per year. Thus, I would argue that they'd be more open to taking a student from a school they are more familiar with, but that's just my opinion.

I wish you could've gone to the Second Look Day at UVM. It was way more immersive and eye opening than our tour on interview day.

In the end, it all comes down to where you think you'd be the happiest for 4 years and the many years after that. I hope you make the best decision for yourself.

Thanks much for helping with those comparisons! For most I am indifferent to either, especially as a Seattle native with overcast throughout the year, and Washington State is definitely feeling the Bern! Cost and curriculum are the main factors for me. Yes, I wish I was able to attend Second Look Day, but grateful for the opportunity nonetheless.

Are you be able to confirm/expand on the third and fourth year clinicals at UVM? Feel free to PM, too! I'd love to be filled in on Second Look

 

[sss1219]

Is cost of living comparable in both areas? I know it is incredibly incredibly high in Miami, and this should by all means be taken into account. It this is the case, debt would be pretty negligible in the long run comparatively. Up to you to decide whether the debt will be worth the higher possibility of ending up in the PNW; if this is a major goal for you, I'd personally be much more at ease going somewhere that matches well to the area. No promise that a short externship is going to provide the needed connections to end up in Washington from a school that is based literally as far as you could possibly get from that state.

I vote Vermont, just because I don't think <4ok of debt would be a major sacrifice for more reassurance of ending up in your dream location for the rest of your life.

EDIT: now that I think about it both areas are pretty similar in terms of geographical proximity but you get my point

 

[sunset57]

I'm not a student at either, but away rotations wouldn't be enough for me to justify paying an additonal 40K.

If you're financing the difference, the ultimate money out of your pocket will be significantly more.

Re regional placement, I agree with a prior poster that this likely reflects applicant preference.

My vote: Miami.

 

[takeurmeds02]

Are you from the PNW? If so that would make it so you have connections there already. If not, you don't know where you'll end up wanting to be and you may end up wanting to go into a specialty where you just go where you match and don't have too much say in location. Miami has a better rep (though UVM is still great and has good matches), so it may put you in a better position to choose your location.

I would still try to do an away in PNW or some kind of project up there to get your name out. Miami is far from PNW and their experience with Miami students may be limited (same probably goes for UVM)

And $40k savings + getting to enjoy beautiful sunny weather (S.A.D is a real thing and having sun induced happiness will be great during med school) seals the deal

That's what sealed my deal

 

[WedgeDawg]

Moving to SSD