University Sydney USMLE scores and Residencies

[rparocks]

The UsydMP Student Services and the International Office have been collecting information in regard to USMLE scores and US residency from current and past students for a number of years. I was talking to my tutor about this. He said that it is public information and suggested we request it from the the University. Any "member of the public" can make a request. You need an Australian postal address. See information below.http://www.usyd.edu.au/arms/foi/The University of Sydney falls within the jurisdiction of the NSW Freedom of Information Act, 1989. Briefly, the Act requires information concerning documents held by the University to be made available to the public, to enable a member of the public to obtain access to documents held by the University and to enable a member of the public to ensure that records held by the University concerning his or her personal affairs are not incomplete, incorrect or out of date.By definition, a "member of the public" might be a staff member or student of the University, a member of the general public, or an employee or officer of another agency or organisation. All may apply for access to documents, however some documents may be exempted from release. The Act contains review and appeal mechanisms which are required to be explained to applicants where applicable. FOI matters can be reviewed by the NSW Ombudsman or the NSW Administrative Decisions Tribunal.The University is required to report to the public on its FOI activities on a regular basis. The two reports provided are the Statement of Affairs and the Summary of Affairs. The Statement of Affairs contains information about the University, its structure and function and the kinds of documents held. The Summary of Affairs identifies each of the University's policy documents and provides a contact list for those wishing to access these documents. Please refer to the relevant pages to view these reports.Upon receipt of an application, the FOI officer will call for all documents relating to the application. Should you receive such a request, please comply by forwarding the requested documents to the FOI Officer as quickly as possible. It is a requirement of the Act that applications be processed and a determination made within 21 days from receipt of the application, except when consultation with third parties is necessary. Determinations under the Act are generally made by the University's Registrar.Please direct all Freedom of Information enquiries to the following officers:Tim Robinson FOI Coordinator Archives A14 University of Sydney NSW 2006 Telephone: (02) 9351 4263 Facsimile: (02) 9351 7304 Anne Picot FOI Officer Archives A14 University of Sydney NSW 2006 Telephone: (02) 9351 7262 Facsimile: (02) 9351 7304 E-mail: [email protected]

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[Winged Scapula]

is there a point to all of this? Has there been a problem getting the information? Are you suggesting a mass appeal/request for the information from SDN users?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Even for the Aussies, a year delay seems a bit excessive.

Guess the scores aren't what they expected and they want to think about how to spin it.

 

[driedcaribou]

I know my score and several of my colleagues have 2 digit scores above the 90s.... I never submitted my score to the faculty and I suspect that my colleagues have not as well.

We found it to be a violation of our privacy and we also found it insulting that they would want our scores with the lack of support we have had for writing the exam.

However, I agree with Kimberli's comment - what is the point of your post?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I know my score and several of my colleagues have 2 digit scores above the 90s.... I never submitted my score to the faculty and I suspect that my colleagues have not as well.

We found it to be a violation of our privacy and we also found it insulting that they would want our scores with the lack of support we have had for writing the exam.

However, I agree with Kimberli's comment - what is the point of your post?

Interesting. While I generally agree that students should release their scores in an effort to help others assess the education, it sounds like in this situation the scores are not reflective of the education but rather the individual - which is the case in most situations anyway.

If Sydney didn't support their students in taking the exam, I don't see that they have a real need to have the scores. Frankly, I've noticed this to be a continuing trend - the schools actively recruit internationals (for the money we bring in) and then fail to provide what we need to do well. Its a crime really and the worst part is, IMHO, YOU get blamed for asking for these things and branded as a "whinging American/Canadian".

 

[Jatpot]

Sydney Uni student with a 211.

Like Caribou said, they didn't give enough support to be deserving of flaunting our scores to attract more students. My score was one of the lower in my year (as a cohort we did quite well), but I didn't want to contribute to any impression that it is b/c of the GMP that I passed Step I; additionally, I won't give them the credit when I (hopefully) match in surgery next year. The amount of extra work we've put in towards matching in the US is crazy, and we have absolutely been branded as "whingy North Americans" when taking part in course development/feedback sessions. When you are promised at your med school interview that your step I will be paid for and then they stop it in the year above yours and tell you they never promised that, that's bunk.

I like USyd and have enjoyed my time here, but I would never give the impression that they are supportive of the additional stress/work we have in relation to the boards/matching.

PS--what up T, how's GP rotation treating you?

 

[nwhilk]

Interesting. I wonder if most Aussie unis are as unsupportive in respect to "whinging Americans/Canadians" as the Uni of Sydney seems to be? For example, I hear Flinders is the opposite, that they are very supportive. But I don't know too much about other unis with respect to the USMLEs, etc.

 

[driedcaribou]

I like USyd and have enjoyed my time here, but I would never give the impression that they are supportive of the additional stress/work we have in relation to the boards/matching.

PS--what up T, how's GP rotation treating you?

Rotation is going very well thank you. If someone said I could do 2 years of a Family Practice residency in Canada with a guarantee of living in my hometown, I would accept that offer in a heartbeat. I know Ontario has removed it's billing cap for Family Physicians which is a good thing- if I want to work 12 hour days then pay me for working 12 hour days.

Having mandatory scheduled 'days off' because you can't get funding sucks.


So here's to a hard $200k slog!

Sorry- it's just been really bothering me lately.

Honestly, if it wasn't for studentdoctor and premed101.com I wouldn't have known of all the difficulties in going back to Canada. The Faculty has no idea of the obstacles that the International Students face.

I don't complain publically to fellow local students or the Faculty because it serves no purpose other than looking like a whiny International student. But, the fact remains the the Faculty is marketing to Internationals to pay their bills. 20% of the class is made up of Internationals.

The 2 issues I have had are the lack of support and the lack of integration.

There is such an opportunity for cultural exchange possible and it is currently wasted.

I also find it frustrating when the locals complain about how difficult the program is when in reality, it is an absolute joke. Talk to any local student who has had a full time job prior to med or a degree that required them to be on campus >3-4 times a week.

Note that this is not a bad thing at all - the harder working students get more out of the freedom they have to study what they want.

re: Kimberli's post - the Internationals in the past several years have helped one another by telling their juniors their USMLE scores and study systems. However, the passing down of knowledge has been getting weaker and weaker. The University needs a formal system in place instead of relying on the kindness and efforts of senior students.


Flinders, I believe, knew what they were getting into so they may have been better at supporting their international North American students for that reason.....

 

[redshifteffect]

Flinders, I believe, knew what they were getting into so they may have been better at supporting their international North American students for that reason.....

Thats a bit of an understatement, when I met people from Flinders on my elective in Alice they told me that they could take off whole semesters (without any sort of penalty) just to study for the USMLE...not having been in Flinders I can't verify the veracity of this, but if it's true thats some pretty good support!

 

[redshifteffect]

Completely agree with you there...Since Canada isn't making any effort to integrate us back into the system, I don't see why I should go through all the pain and effort only be stuck into some kind of rural contract. (Thats assuming you even get a Match...haven't you seen the latest CaRMS stats..?)

Family med isn't bad, and here at least you get paid for your effort. After having been paid to work on Medical director and some of the newer Electronic medical records systems I also wouldn't be happy working in Canada where a lot of stuff is still done on paper...I"d just be too paranoid that I'd be missing something.

I can also see the mentality of many GPs back home. They seem tired, overworked and they basically just 'churn' patients to make money (not all, but the ones I've done electives with seem like that.) Not saying that it doesn't happen here, but there's less 'financial' incentive to do that, because you can just stop bulk billing. After all the hardwork of Med school I'm not so sure that that is the lifestyle I want...so I guess I'll have to take serious look at what options are available before I make up my mind.

 

[driedcaribou]

Thats a bit of an understatement, when I met people from Flinders on my elective in Alice they told me that they could take off whole semesters (without any sort of penalty) just to study for the USMLE...not having been in Flinders I can't verify the veracity of this, but if it's true thats some pretty good support!

You can take time off for the USMLE at Sydney Uni as well or for any other exam you want and you can exchange your scheduled electives for rotations etc.

They are pretty good about that.

 

[redshifteffect]

You can take time off for the USMLE at Sydney Uni as well or for any other exam you want and you can exchange your scheduled electives for rotations etc.

They are pretty good about that.

Wow...that is good support.

 

[driedcaribou]

Wow...that is good support.

I think those policies were put in place by a trailblazing and self-less American student several years ago.

The Faculty is willing to change to help us but it's currently having problems just appeasing it's local students... the infrastructure at USyd just needs an overhaul but with all the curriculum changes, it is hard to blame them for all the growing pains.

 

[nicko18]

I also find it frustrating when the locals complain about how difficult the program is when in reality, it is an absolute joke. Talk to any local student who has had a full time job prior to med or a degree that required them to be on campus >3-4 times a week.

I'll say. I think the O&G rotation has less contact hours than an arts degree.

 

[nima123]

I know this is not the discussion that you'd expect a premed to participate in. But I can't help but wonder why most of you are so keen on coming back to Canada when you think the future here isn't very bright for you. Don't you have the option of staying in Australia? Couldn't you get permanent residency there? (I thought Australia takes lots of immigrants).

 

[driedcaribou]

I know this is not the discussion that you'd expect a premed to participate in. But I can't help but wonder why most of you are so keen on coming back to Canada when you think the future here isn't very bright for you. Don't you have the option of staying in Australia? Couldn't you get permanent residency there? (I thought Australia takes lots of immigrants).

No, it's a valid question.

Home is ultimately home. You'll always be a foreigner in Australia unless you pick up the accent. The Australians are wonderful people but the fact remains that you'll be reminded of the fact you don't belong intentionally or unintentionally. Also, if you are without family, you lose that kind of support. You have friends that you might have made in the past 4 years but can this compare to friends you've known for the past 20+?

I don't think it's possible to make long-term predictions on the health care systems and a decision on where to practice should be based on where you want to live.

If you're going between developed countries, medical technology and practice is fairly similar and so is the quality of life.

It was difficult to immigrate to Australia before once you finished Med School - it's easier now but they don't just hand it to you once you get through the door.

I don't think immigrating to Australia is that hard but let me tell you this - even with my Bachelor's degree, I am 5 points short of eligibility for permanent residency.

 

[redshifteffect]

I know this is not the discussion that you'd expect a premed to participate in. But I can't help but wonder why most of you are so keen on coming back to Canada when you think the future here isn't very bright for you. Don't you have the option of staying in Australia? Couldn't you get permanent residency there? (I thought Australia takes lots of immigrants).

I suppose that depends on who you are..I for one have been looking at staying in Australia, at least if not permanently then at least to do some or part of my training.

Personally I think that there are many people who have migrated to other countries, including Canada that have given up their lives in their native country for a brighter future. Australia ultimately has a brighter future than Canada if you want to do medicine, simply because there are more opportunities to get into medicine. If you think about it if your child wants to do Medicine in Canada sometime in the future they are more likely to face the same future that you are facing/faced. In Australia the government is not only building more medical schools but also increasing student enrollments. They also have cheaper tuitions here that are covered by the government regardless of your parental income. Finally if you are not lucky enough to get into medical school after highschool, then you have a second chance after you complete a degree. So there are two ways to get into medicine.

Driedcaribou is right though, ultimately it depends on what your priorities are and where you want to call home.

The 5 points driedcaribou is short of, could easily have been recovered if he had chosen an underdeveloped area to study medicine in. So I guess it pays to think about this if that is your plan.