Dismiss Notice
SDN members see fewer ads and full resolution images. Join our non-profit community!

unnecessary surgery

Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by jdub, Aug 29, 2001.

  1. jdub

    jdub Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    last weekend my family and i went through a bit of a tramatic thing. my 18 year old little brother had a biopsy done on an enlarged lymph node in his neck, and since the ear,nose, and throat guy (otolaryngologist?) was pretty convinced that it was cancer, we were just waiting for the bad news.

    luckily, it wasn't cancer, but instead it was mono.

    this is where it gets a bit sticky. they did not run any blood tests before they decided to do the surgery. after the negative biopsy results the first test they ran told us that he had mono.

    my family plans on either suing the doctor (who is also a plastic surgeon) or arbitrating for him to cover anything that our insurance does not cover, plastic surgery for the scar on his neck (if needed), a weeks worth of my brothers pay for recovery time for the surgery, and we plan on keep things open for possible nerve damage because of the unnecessary surgery.

    to be quite honest, i feel a bit let down. i guess i don't understand how he could have gone ahead with an operation without doing any blood work? shouldn't that be a preliminary thing? i don't see how he couldn't have rushed that through a lab and only made us wait a day or two extra?

    to top it off, my mother is convinced that he did the surgery just for the money (i hold that as an unlikely posibility, and definitely not as an assumption). i also am feel that i am only inviting some negative karma for suing a doctor, seeing on how i plan to be one eventually, but at the same time, i feel like he skipped a step, and he needs to take responsibility for his error.

    thankfully, my parents are being pretty level headed about what they want. my family isn't searching for a big payoff, we just want practical stuff covered for his error.

    since i feel pretty weird about this, i kind of wanted to know what some of you folks think?
     
  2. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. Djanaba

    Djanaba Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2000
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    2
    While on my surgery rotation, I was introduced to a school of thought I liked very much. One resident said that the goal of a surgeon is to think of and then rule out (via tests, history, physical exam, etc.) all the possible reasons for a patient's presentation, and to explore all treatment modalities BESIDES surgery. To him, it was a last resort, called for when the evidence was right, there were no other options, and the patient was desiring (or at least consenting) of the procedure. From this line of thinking, yes, the surgeon did wrong in not exploring some of the absolutely most common cause of enlarged lymph nodes in an adolescent. While I can't speak to litigation, as a future doc it does make me wonder what about your brother's presentation steered the MD away from a dx of mono -- or whether he even thought about it.
     
  4. Fah-Q

    Fah-Q Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    15
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    A few points. First on the legal side of things, you cannot sue someone if there is not an injury. What was your brother's injury? Another thing, what was the procedure that you are calling "surgery." Was it the biopsy? Did the surgeon do a neck dissection (removal of cervical lymph nodes)? Its sounds like your brother did not present with the common symptoms of mono and so the doc didn't do a Monospot test. Another thing, why did your brother go to a head and neck surgeon for something relatively benign? If he was having the classical symptoms of mono I would expect he would go to his family doc first. A lump in the neck without any of the accompanying symptoms of mono would send him to a H&N surgeon but it sounds like he didn't have any of the mono symptoms (malaise, fatigue, sore throat, enlarged spleen, fever). Don't sue the guy because he was wrong, that happens all the time. If your brother was injured in some way then maye you have a case but as a far as I can tell he simply underwent a common diagnostic procedure that turned up negative. Just be thankful it is not cancer.
     
  5. jdub

    jdub Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    fah-q,

    my brother went to our fp first, he was conscerned right away because he didn't show any signs of an infection besides the swelling in his neck.

    and the injuries are the surgery itself, it wasn't necessary. he is going to have a large scar on his neck, granted it shouldn't be that noticeable. he also is on some painkillers right now and has missed over a week of work.

    my point is, granted i have very limited knowledge on the subject, but i just think that the doctor missed a step and was too willing to do a neck dissection (i pretty much thought that if a doc cuts somebody open a bit, that it is considered surgery).

    if he would have done some preliminary blood work they would have found the mono and they likely wouldn't have done the neck dissection.
     
  6. Pikevillemedstudent

    Pikevillemedstudent Bengals Fan

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Truth of the matter is, you can't sue for a scar from surgery because you should know you will get a scar. Your brother most likely was informed of that fact before the procedure and probably signed a consent form. If everyone sued surgeons for a scar, no surgery would ever be performed. He can't help it he was wrong. We all make mistakes. It appears that the FP is the one that should have caught the mono initially, not the ENT. ENT's see tons of neck masses and many are cancer. Your brother should be very happy with the outcome. Also, I don't think standard blood work checks for mono. If neither physician thought of mono as a diagnosis, they certainly would not check it.
     
  7. tussy

    tussy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1999
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    5
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    An enlarged lymph node in an otherwise asymptomatic 18 year old: The number 1 thing on my differential diagnosis would be lymphoma, number 2 would be a reactive node, and number 3 would be mono.

    What if it had been the other way around. What if they had done the mono test first, found it to be negative and then a few days later he had the biopsy and it was positive. Would you then sue the surgeon for delaying chemotherapy for a few days???

    I think you should just celebrate that your brother is healthy and isn't facing a diagnosis of cancer.
     
  8. fourthyr

    fourthyr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unless there was no consent for the procedure, the surgeon performed what he said/document he would perform. An operation. Your brother signed; therefore he received. Risks of any surgical procedure include bleeding, infection, pain, and scarring.

    End of story.

    If you all would rather he had cancer, perhaps sue the pathologist.

    There were many decision pathways to choose. You all agreed to continue down this particular path.

    And Mononucleosis does not necessarily show up on "blood tests" or the Mono-spot. If fact, the Mono spot isn't that great, and neither are blood tests. Together, they may have helped steer down another path. But, then, in another universe, perhaps your brother would have had cancer, instead.

    Overall, treatment is a team decision (except in cases of emergency, trauma, lack of decision making abilities). You were all part of the team.......
     
  9. fourthyr

    fourthyr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way, nobody's perfect.

    Do you think the #1 med school admission requirement is being perfect/flawless?

    If that were true, no one could be a doctor. An unexpected outcome is common in medicine. Otherwise, people wouldn't be dying or getting sick, because the all-knowing, omnipotent physicians would catch, treat, and get rid of all disease.

    And, of course, there may be some other circumstances to the story (like your brother who was Tom Cruise now looks like Austin Powers after the surgery or something). But, at this point (in my limited knowledge base), I'd be wary to have you as a future colleague.
     
  10. droliver

    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,552
    Likes Received:
    69
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    jdub,

    This scenario you have presented reflects an ignorance on your part of the management potential head and neck cancers. A "blood test" is not indicated for all lesions that might require excisional biopsy, especially in the abscence of a history that might suggest mono. An 18 year old with new onset of a suspicious neck mass requires either cytology (via fine-needle aspiration) or tissue diagnosis (via excisional biopsy or core-needle sampling)as a work up for potential cancer. I'm surpised that an FNA was not performed on the mass, unless it was in an area that the surgeon worried about its relationship to the carotid vessels or thyrocervical trunk. A suspicious lymph node would still probably be excised even if you had a negative FNA due to potential sampling error.

    I find it hard to believe that your family member required a week or more off from work for a simple biopsy of a cervical node. As for getting compensated for that as well as the "potential nerve damage and scar revision", I wouldn't be very hopeful. You would have to demonstrate 1)an injury & 2) an injury that resulted from deviation from the standard of care for malpractice to be established.

    The fact that you bring up a lawsuit after having a family member intensively worked up for early diagnosis of a potential malignancy is frustrating, if not surprising. Even though this case turned out to not be a malignancy, your family should reflect upon that the fact that your brother recieved thoughful enough care to consider the potential for a cancer. It was implied that there might be some financial gain for the ENT/plastic surgeon in this case. Let me tell you..... there is little or no profit in a procedure like that, and quite often the surgeon operates at a loss on small things like like.
     
  11. ghostcow

    ghostcow Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok Not really directly related to the above problem but thought I would post and see what happens. I am a 32 yo WM med student, with a 10 month history of having a mildly enlarged (approx. 8mm-1cm) what I am assuming lymph node on posterior neck at about C4 level. It started just left of midline and has migrated gradually lateral about 2 cm where it is now, still roughly 1 cm in diameter. It is rubbery, nontender and mobile, there doesn't appear to any "matted" feel to it. There is a sense of tightness, muscular in the area, but may be because I read with head turned to left most of the time. No other significant symptoms or findings that I can detect.
    PMHx: none, PSHx: none, Meds:none, FamHx: essentially neg, Social Hx: 10 pack year tobacco, +ETOH but in moderation, mostly J, ROS: Neg.
    Have seen a Family medicine doc twice for other reasons and he thought it was just reactive node, but hey, thought I would see if there was anything y'all could add. Anybody know much about how long nodes can be enlarged?
    Ok, just to make this more USMLE like, what is the next step or have I just been seeing too much CA on my rotations. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    Peace
     
  12. Cobragirl

    Cobragirl Hoohaa helper ;)

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Two words...SECOND OPINION...especially when facing any type of surgery!
     
  13. droliver

    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,552
    Likes Received:
    69
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    ghostcow,

    the scenario you describe is most likely a reactive node especially given the chronicity of the mass & the fact that it has not changed in size. The only reason I see to pursue any tx. would be if it 1) changed in size or character or 2) became uncomfortable to you because of its location
     
  14. animal666

    animal666 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    i have a similar story. i had a ganglion/cyst on my ventro-lateral aspect of my wrist.

    the first doc, i went to recomended excision. i was out for a week because of surgery and i lost pay. he also mentioned that the ganlion/cyst might reappear. the ganlgion reappeared and i went back and he refused to treat me, untill it fully healed for a few months.

    in the mean time i went for a second opinion.

    the second doctor was like 'why did you go for surgery'? the second doc treated me by aspirated the ganlgion and that was the end of it.

    well the point is that, i think the first doc was just unethical in his approach toward treating me and jsut wanted money.

    a word of caution to all, as mentioned above, a second opinion is always in order when a major decision is being made.
     
  15. ghostcow

    ghostcow Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the responses Droliver and animal. I was thinking that it was nothing except annoying but thought I would curbside the forum. Animal, I have a ganglion cyst on my left wrist, annoying little buggers aren't' they. Mine is no problem until I start working out for a month or so and then will give me problems. I know there is a high recurrence rate after aspiration, there can be some serious, but rare, complications from surgery so I just ignore it as it waxes and wanes no matter what I'm doing.
    Peace
    jdub, sorry about the tangent. thx
     
  16. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  17. jdub

    jdub Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    this board seems a little too defensive for what i want to know, but i will venture ahead a little further because i feel i am being practical.

    what is the standard procedure for most hospitals or doctors when an 18 year old has a enlarged lymph node?

    if it is as tussy says: "An enlarged lymph node in an otherwise asymptomatic 18 year old: The number 1 thing on my differential diagnosis would be lymphoma, number 2 would be a reactive node, and number 3 would be mono."

    wouldn't a doctor want to rule out mono before he went ahead and operated?

    and if so, if it is very likely that it would have been determined that my brother had mono before the operation, shouldn't the doctor be accountable for his error and the outcome that it had on my brother and my family?

    as i said before, i have very limited knowledge of this subject matter, but it still seems that a basic step was skipped and that the doctors decided to start cutting too early.

    also, assuming that the surgery shouldn't have taken place, why should my family be responsible for the significant amount of money that our insurance won't cover?

    neither i, nor my family are talking about grilling this doc. we are talking about him taking responsibility for what we percieve as an error that could have been avoided if he would have had a little more insight and a little less of a predisposition to operate.

    btw, my mother's fp is the one that suggested this because she believed that it was a huge error that blood was not analyzed before an invasive procedure.

    also, not to be to cynical, but lets say that a doc made an error that caused paralysis of the legs, would it be appropraite to say "be thankful that it isn't total paralysis"?
     
  18. Devo

    Devo Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2000
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm 18 and have had a enlarged lymph node on the back of my neck (probably a little less than an inch in diameter) for a solid 3 years, and nothing was ever done. I saw my FP once when I was ~15 (asymptomatic the whole time) and he dismissed it and said just to have it looked at once more when I had my scheduled physical 6 weeks later. Six weeks later it was also dismissed as nothing without any blood tests or anything further than palpation. Never thought anything else about it for years until now I found a little probably pea-sized lump on my scalp (no recent illness). I think I'll make another appointment soon just to be safe (but hey, its been 3 years so I'm guessing im fine). Not sure why I posted this... the topic just reminded of this. I'd just like to let all the other lumpy people out there your not alone!
     
  19. droliver

    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,552
    Likes Received:
    69
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    The key word being bandied about here is "suspicious" neck mass/node. When someone uses this term in any context when describing a head & neck mass, you are obligated to work it up for cancer & that means a tissue diagnosis of some sort. Failure to do that IS a common source malplractice claims for delay in diagnosis.
     
  20. AJM

    AJM SDN Moderator
    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    I just wanted to address the question of whether the ENT should have done a Monospot test before he proceeded with the biopsy. The thing to remember is that the Monospot test is not perfect -- it has an approximately 10% false-positive rate, which basically means that around 10% of people who get a positive result really do not have an EBV infection. If the ENT had a high clinical suspicion for malignancy, a Monospot test would not have changed his management of your brother's situation. The only thing it would have done would be to delay diagnosis of a potentially fatal disease. Imagine if your brother had a positive result on a Monospot test, a biopsy wasn't done, and it turned out that he did have lymphoma and the prior test result was just a false-positive.

    One of the guiding principles of medical practice is that you need to rule out the diseases that will kill your patient. In a case of a suspicious neck mass/node, the only way to really rule out malignancy is to do an FNA or biopsy. A Monospot is not going to change the management in the case of a highly suspicious node or mass, so there is no point in doing one. It sounds like the ENT your brother saw took a completely appropriate course of action, and should be applauded for his thoroughness and concern.
     
  21. jdub

    jdub Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    ajm,

    thanks for the post. that makes sense and makes things less black and white.

    BUT, i still don't know why the doc didn't do that test first, get the results, and then say "hey, it probably is mono, but this test gives a 10% false positive, so i think that we should go ahead with the biopsy".

    it would have made my family a lot more at ease and less likely to question his decision.
     
  22. OK, I think this is a good conversation. but to first point out the fallacy of some prewious satements.

    "You cannot sue if there is no Damage..A scar is not considered damage"
    ---This is half true. It is true that damage is required. But an unneccesary surgery (for instance, done on the wrong side of the neck, or wrong limb" would be "Res Ipsa Loquitor" , and would be considered Malpractice. Signing a consent is not "the end of the story" at all.

    "DD for this patient--#1. Lymphoma, #2 reactive node, #3. Mono"

    -------My DD, (and ive seen a lot of specimens from exactly this type of surgery) would be #1)Lymphoma, #2)Lymphoma, and #3) Lymphoma. If mono WAS on a consideration in this patient, a heterophile antibody test would be appropriate....but it really isnt. This case is CANCER until proven otherwise...which cant be done without tissue...Students- Did you know that Burkitts Lymphoma is produced by Eppstein-Barr Virus? This is the same bug that produces Mono. The argument that a simple blood test could rule you out, is really ignorant, and I would go see your FP, and tell them to go read.


    Basically, The ENT was right, and you dont have a case..but i understand your worry that the wrong thing was done...your FP is blowing hot air, and has mislead you. If you want, you can TRY..and knowing the system in this country, a good lawyer could PROBABLY get you a nice little settlement.
     
  23. animal666

    animal666 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    ghostcow

    those ganglions are a pain in the you know what. the problem with my case was that i was entering dental school at that time, and the pain during any type of movements was far too great for me.

    so i had to really get rid of it asap. mine did not appear after aspiration, but there seems to be some scar tissue has formed. regardless, it has not recurred which is good news.
     
  24. commymommy

    commymommy *reformed commymommy*

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    2,577
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I think it is interesting that the FP suggested litigation. Why didn't she do a monospot before referring to ENT?

    Kris
     
  25. Fah-Q

    Fah-Q Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    15
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Oh WOW!!! Did this guy just say that he would suspect Burkitt's lymphoma over mononucleosis???? How many cases of Burkitt's are there in the US a year...2!? Burkitts is EXTREMELY rare and often involves the CNS. Where is this guy's CNS symptoms, Doc? Burkitt's patients in Africa are often EBV positive but Burkitt's patients in the US are typically not EBV positive. Keep reading those micro books buddy and try to check out a CLINICAL medicine book sometime.
     
  26. I didnt want to respond to your moronic post. (Yes...i called you a moron..its a FAh-Q!!har-de-har :D ) But I am kinda pissed off about the pile of rubble that used to be call the WTC, so here:

    this is taken from the online house staff manual for Beth Israel

    The words, "Exposure of Ignorance" come to mind.....


    Go erase your post

    I got a funny feeling that someone is going to have to dissapear and then change their screename, so he can TRY to make me look dumb again.
    "POOF!"
    I wish we had the "Talk to the hand" smiley that Yahoo chat has, it would come in handy now...but Ill have to settle for
    :rolleyes:
     
  27. Fah-Q

    Fah-Q Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    15
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I'll try to be nice because I can see how confused you are. You offered no rebuttal to me mocking your suspicion of Burkitt's lymphoma. No, you did not say "lymphoma" or even "NH lymphoma," you said Burkitt's lymphoma, so quit offering up evidence as to why you would suspect lymphoma because that is not what you said in your original post. A monkey would suspect lymphoma but having evidence to support that suspicion is quite another matter. You suspecting Burkitt's, an extremely rare disease in the US, tells me that you are definitely not a clinician nor have you had any quality clinical training. My favorite part of your post: "EBV genome is found in 98% of endemic cases of Burkitt's lymphoma." BURKITT'S IS ENDEMIC IN AFRICA...NOT THE US!!! People with Burkitt's in the US are typically not EBV+. Just admit you took a little bit of information just a little bit too far and apologize for poluting this message board with such stupidity. Or you could try to tap dance out of your original position that you would suspect Burkitt's (HAH!! that still makes me chuckle). Either way, I don't care what you do...you fuzzy, little foreigner.
     
  28. srlondon

    srlondon Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not applying for a surgery residency this fall, but I can tell you one thing... when my mother (a smoker) presented with a suspicious lump in her tongue this spring, I dealt with a similar situation. Did I want to spare her the discomfort of a biopsy? Yes. Did the oral surgeon think her presentation was particularly troubling? No. But it was worth our piece of mind, after you cut through all the hemming and hawing, to know EXACTLY what was going on in her mouth. What is the only way to find out? Cut out the mass and send it to a pathologist. Less than elegant, certainly. But as you will hopefully learn in your own medical education, there is a time and a place for surgery, and it certainly seems that your brother's time had come.

    As others have pointed out, you should be pleased that you got a definitive diagnosis of a process w/a benign etiology. Would you rather be sitting on pins and needles for three months waiting to see if the mass grew, knowing all the while that you could be letting lymphoma infiltrate its way through your brother's head & neck? I don't think that you could honestly say that this a preferable alternative.

    In addition, I think that this also illustrates the pitfalls of attempting to "doctor" to your own family. You love them, but despite your best intentions, you are the last person to be making value judgements in their behalf. They will increasing attempt to force your hand as you advance in your education, but there is a difficult dynamic in which you are reluctant to think of the worst prognosis in regard to your family. I think this situation illustrates the unpleasantness of this situation.
     
  29. The reply, below, is to be read in a na-nee-nana-boo-boo tone of voice, where the last word of each sentence is intonated in a up-and-down manner, used by pre-schoolers to aggravate a classmate.

    Somebody has a problem.

    Somebody is insecure about their knowledge in medicine.

    Somebody keeps trying to rail on my clinical skills, even though he has not proven me wrong in any way.

    Somebody has a problem with fmg's.

    Somebody is a total loser.

    Hey, Re-Re....its a Fah-Q....youdont know jack.

    PLease post "ANYTHING" I said about Burkitts Lymphoma that was wrong....I think it was YOU that jumped to the Burkitt's conclusion. I Never brought up Burkitt's, you tool! ALl i said was "Lymphoma till proven otherwise"

    I hope to god that you are not in any judgemental role in our society. Like a cop or judge. So...Fah-Q...I want to ask...
    Are you a oversmart 10th grader, a pissed off pre-med, or a physician that is aggravated by his own ignorance and filled with vitreol.

    Tell me you didnt pass your boards, because that would undermine my faith in the US Medical system.

    POOF!
     
  30. Fah-Q

    Fah-Q Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    15
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Allow me to oblige your request, moron!

    Who brought up Burkitt's lymphoma?

    I'll explain it again...and I promise to speak more slowly this time. Burkitt's is endemic in Africa (that big hunk of land in the center of your map). Burkitt's cases in the US (even you can figure out where that is) are NOT TYPICALLY EBV+. Suspecting Burkitt's lymphoma in the US over simple mononucleosis is absolutely ridiculous.

    A word of advice: If you hear hooves, think horse, not unicorn. Please consider either radiology or pathology as a specialty because you are going to kill a lot of patients if you get into anything clinical. Until then, get back to work you worthless pre-med!!! Another thing...STOP POSTING HERE...you are making people dumber by posting your garbage.

    Keep tap-dancing!!!
     
  31. You stupid jerk.

    Go away.

    Anyone with a brain can scroll up and see that I said "Burkitt's Lymphoma" in the context of our discussion of Lymphoma vs. Mono, only to point out to students that there is a link there.

    You are SOOOO angry and Insecure that you jumped to the conclusion that I in some way suggested that this case was Burkitt's.

    Moron.
    Poof!!!
     
  32. Fah-Q

    Fah-Q Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    15
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Wow! Who's angry? Just admit that you got caught doing a little bit of bull****ting about something that you obviously know nothing about and I will promise to beg the others on this board to forgive you for your sins of ignorance against us all. Until then...keep tap-dancing!!!
     
  33. daveshnave

    daveshnave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2001
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I think you BOTH have your panties in a twist... Granted I am only a humble 1st year med student with limited knowledge (someone either of you would be quick to refer to as a moron), but I was amazed at how quickly that escalated to name-calling. If you both are clinicians, the two of you need to learn a funny little 15 letter word called "professionalism." Ever heard of it? I have a new goal in life... NEVER to be in a residency program where either of you work!
     
  34. Originally posted by Sah-Q
    ---Sah-Q...your mom tap-danced for me last night. You are such a tool...i dont believe im still posting on this.

    This post should have been called "unecessary player-hate". This loser assumed i suspected Burkitts Lymphoma, something I NEVER said.

    to the above poster...please scroll up, and tell me who got nasty first. Ive got nothing against a good argument, but this guy is an angry freak who gets off on misquoting me.

    yes, i got angry as well...sorry.
    Peace....Dont go Nuts, Sah-Q...i must accept that people will try and provoke those who know more than them. You are forgiven.
     
  35. DaMoose

    DaMoose New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread ended with AJM's post...

    The ENT guy didn't do anything wrong. The worst thing he could have done was to get a positive monospot and call it quits.

    It is common for physicians to argue among themselves. Even cursing and yelling, though unprofessional, are commonly seen. That is still 10 times more exceptable than to tell your patient to go sue another physician. Your FP should not be trusted. Go find another FP. Just remember, when you finish your residency and become an ENT, don't take referrals from your current FP...
     
  36. preludexl

    preludexl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    2
    Phhhhttttt. How noble of everyone. It could be that the doctor did it just to make money. Unnecessary procedures and tests are done ALL the time. Their purpose? No, it isn't to rule this out or to rule that out...it might be, but the ulterior motive might be just to make a buck. While, I dislike lawyers and them suing doctors. I've witnessed firsthand unnecessary catherizations all the time...mostly from the same 2 doctors. But, hey everyone here in the dept knows it. However, it is very hard to do anything about it. The only way for an investigation to proceed would be for his peers to accuse him or a 3d party doctor who reads over results and gives his expert opinion on the necessity of the procedure. The worst thing you can do is ask a bunch of pre-meds or medical students what they think about suing a doctor. Do you seriously think they, I being one of the exceptions, will tell you to go ahead and go after a doctor? The very people who would walk on one another to become a doctor to support you in suing one? Heck no. I've seen where a doctor killed a patient due to his fault for giving a test when he shouldnt have and shifted the blame on the poor tech who was doing a test on him at the moment when the patient succumbed. Just because a "specialist" tells you one thing, doesnt necessarily mean they know what they are talking about....go to someone else and get a 2nd opinion. Afterall, unless you are getting minor pimple surgery, any surgery is important enough to warrant a 2nd opnion. My advice, while not overlooking frivolous lawsuits which only drive up medical costs, is to consult a lawyer with experience in these kind of personal injury cases. Well that's my 2 cents, here come the flames. :cool:
     
  37. preludexl

    preludexl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    2
    Oh yes, I found the 2 guys arguing quite amusing. I'm sure they are both really bright guys in their own rights, but seriously both of them are going off in a tangent here. The original poster just wanted to know if he could sue or not. Why is he asking here? It beats me. Medicine should never be practiced on the internet. When in doubt, ask established people who have been doing it for decades in their respective fields and see what they think. As far as I know, most law "consultations" are free from the lawyers. :D
     

Share This Page