Unqualified medical school students

[chopper]

Cute Nurse and Catfish John - I told myself I would never do this, but karma points to both of you. BTW . . . . I have no idea how to do that. lol

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[Fumoffu]

Uh in my opinion there are 2 types of unqualified medical students:

1) TOTAL Ahole gunner types that get in but are HORRIBLE AWFUL people in general. Just go to academia, research, or be a radiologist PLEASE! Don't put your patients through an experience with an aloof physician.

2) Underqualified applicants academically who get in because of Affirmative Action, Legacies, Connections, or whatever. These people might not know what they're doing all the time (although hopefully they flunk out), so might endanger their patients.

Honestly though I think (1) is probably worse for patients since I would think (2) would get weeded out and fail.

There are so many other factors that make a physician "capable" - not just book smarts. Ability to communicate with people, teamwork skills, stress management capability, etc... I think those 3 attributes are MUCH MORE important than the difference between a 3.3 and a 3.6.

Do you really think a patient will CARE if you know all the metabolic pathways possible in biochemistry, all the different arteries in a human body, or whatever. NO. The patient will care about HOW YOU DELIVER the treatment. They'll assume that you know what you're doing and will give the correct treatment. HOW you deliver and how you treat them (hopefully as a fellow human being) is what makes their experience good or one that they will talk about at the water cooler the next day.

 

[jlee9531]

hey according to dumpy im gonna be a doctor that kills people!!



life experience bs? please. give me a break. i for one will admit my life experiences have caused my grades to suffer, but they are also the ones that will help me become the best doctor that i can be. its not as rare as people might think it is...we are out there...we just dont flaunt our status around so that everyone knows we are disadvantaged.
"Hi...nice to meet you, I'm disadvantaged."

you cant predict how people with lower numbers will do in med school. how do you know they wont turn out be like the guy that catfish john is classmates with? admissions wants the most well rounded students to be at their school. they dont want a-holes that give physicians a uncaring image.

throw me a line in about 4-5 years and we'll see what a horrible doctor i am going to become. better yet, ill have all my lower gpa friends with me so we can compare notes? sound good?

"Hi ma'am, I forgot Ohm's Law on the MCAT, does that mean you won't be needing me anymore?"

 

[PMED99]

Great stuff! I love hearing passion in people's words when I read them. If you ask me passion and a love of medicine is what will create a great doctor. With that intensity, you all will go on to study hard and make great grades so its kinda a two way street on this issue.

You have to have passion and a strong will to begin with to get good grades and pass the USMLE and therefore those that will be great docs based on this passion will also score high in med school.

This should not be reflected in undergrad considering I didnt do so hot in physics, calculus, or english. Funny huh? that English would help lower my GPA.

"Um...Doc, can you write me a 6 page paper on Hamlet?" If this happens, then I suppose I will be a bad doctor.

 

[L'elephante]

Dumpy,

Sorry that everyone is against you. I agree with you. I think that only people with 4.0s and 35s get into medical school. I don't think that anyone else should even try to get in. Whatever, you're nuts man! I can't believe that you continue to justify your infected thinking. I know that gpa isn't that important and there are reasons for that. The MCAT score should reflect to some extent how badly you want to get into med school. But, like so many have said, they aren't the whole package, man. Relax. There's a lot more you should be worried about than how medical school's pick their acceptees. In your case, you should be worried about finding a way to treat that nasty rash that's been itchin' like something you wouldn't believe.

 

[Gleevec]

I think everyone needs BARE MINIMUM requirements for their own future doctors. I know if I were sick the numbers I would look at are:

3.9+
40+
34D+
2.5 mil/year

 

[NonTradMed]

Wow, I got a slightly different take on the OP's post. What stuck out in my mind was that he/she said if a person started out premed at age 18 and they did poorly and could not get into med school on their first try, they should not be given a chance to go to med school ever even if they went back to school to raise their GPA.

All I can think is.........WHY NOT?!

I mean, not everyone will be so focused or have emotional mature to sit down and do what it takes to get into med school at age 18, or age 20....but does that mean, if they clean up their act and get good grades, they should STILL be denied admissions to med school?

I always think one of the greatest thing about our educational system was that we are not completely exam oriented. This is not to say exams aren't important, but that we can see the "whole" person. In other countries, especially asian societies, there is a huge movement to move away from an exam centered educational system....b/c it ends up producing students who can absorb textbook information and test well, but do little else.

I also admired the fact we have such a flexible system which will continually give people the CHANCE to prove their academic salts if they so chose. Late bloomers are not unheard of, and many times, just b/c someone did not have the academic grades to get into med school at age 18, that if they buckled down at a later age, they would not do well enough to get into med school.

I think there is some confusion between letting people with poor academic performance in and letting someone who ONCE had poor academic but cleaned up their act and decided to redo their coursework ect to get into med school. Those people are not only well qualified academically, but also have the drive and ambition to go 'road less travelled'. While most people will wallow in 'what ifs', people who decide to 'try again' for med school, show PERSISTANCE and tenacity....to me, THAT is a sign of being a great doctor---never give up!

This is not to say we give people free rein into med school for having waited until age 28 to go to med school, but that we should not hold a person back simply b/c they were dumb enough to party through undergrad. They pay their due by having to retake classes, retaking MCATS etc.

I will not get into the debate about how much academics figure into med school, only that they SHOULD be important (every med student should have proven that they can study, retain, and understand) but that academics should not be the ONLY thing adcoms should look at. No exam can fully test the extent of human potential than that called 'real life'.

 

[wire]

dumpy-
why don't you go get some sun, might clear up that case of acne. i have met tons of people with 3.1's and 27's who end up being at the top of their class. you, my friend, are a true *****.

 

[Dumpy]

dumpy-
why don't you go get some sun, might clear up that case of acne. i have met tons of people with 3.1's and 27's who end up being at the top of their class. you, my friend, are a true *****.

How did you know about my acne problem?! Your words are so painful... I... I just don't... what will I do?!!!!

Please! Accept me and love me! Shower me with your patronizing bull$hit!

By the way, you've met TONS of people with those stats, huh? I bet. Top 20 schools too, right? Sounds plausible. Let me guess: they all were WONDERFUL people with AMAZING extracurriculars. How nice.

 

[alEXatosu]

Who wants to go through college studying every second so you can have 3.8's and 35s? The stereotype of the socially inept 3.8, 35 student is frighteningly true. I can not believe the number of social nerds in my premedical group here at Ohio State. Scores are important to a certain degree, but the person that can balance a respectable social schedule with decent grades has my respect as a future physician and a person. Life isn't just grades. I have had my fun, and I will continue to have my fun in college. My numbers are just good enough to get into med school. I may not get into the best school, but hey I have no regrets.

 

[wire]

.

 

[Dumpy]

Who wants to go through college studying every second so you can have 3.8's and 35s? The stereotype of the socially inept 3.8, 35 student is frighteningly true. I can not believe the number of social nerds in my premedical group here at Ohio State. Scores are important to a certain degree, but the person that can balance a respectable social schedule with decent grades has my respect as a future physician and a person. Life isn't just grades. I have had my fun, and I will continue to have my fun in college. My numbers are just good enough to get into med school. I may not get into the best school, but hey I have no regrets.

I've figured out my all-time favorite thing about this message board. Everybody, no matter if they are gunner, slacker, or anyone in between, is under the impression that their take on life is the best. Slackers assume that they are somehow cooler than gunners, just by virtue of sucking at school. Gunners assume they are smarter than slackers, but still cooler, too. And the people in between just kiss everybody's ass, having not been polarized. I love it!

Let the drama continue...

 

[Dumpy]

dumpy-
here's a novel idea, some people have fun in college. and not everyone is fortunate enough to have their parents pay for a's by sending their kid to harvard.

What's the novel idea? According to these post, I:

1) Am a "*****"
2) Have acne
3) Am rich
4) Went to Harvard
5) Got straight A's

I love all of you. Keep it coming!

 

[wire]

.

 

[Dumpy]

don't forget 22 year old virgin.

Twenty THREE year old virgin, thank you very much. Jeez.

One can only assume that you, Wire, are a veritable sex-machine.

 

[wire]

what can i say, it's a veritable force down there.

 

[JohnnyOU]

...The sad thing is, one year and one useless post-bacc program later, they ARE in. These people are going to be doctors! ...

Imagine the nerve... people of average intelligence thinking they can go to med school just like us.

J~

 

[leiface]

Dumpy,
Based on your opinions, I can only assume that you are extremely bitter about having been rejected at a school where people with lower stats were accepted. I'm sorry...however, I do not think your opinions will sway the general attitude on these boards. SDN is one of the most supportive online pre-med communities and will continue to be. If someone with a 3.0 and 25 gets into medschool, I will not hesitate to say CONGRATS! Try being happy for other people...it might make you less bitter.

 

[Dumpy]

Dumpy,
Based on your opinions, I can only assume that you are extremely bitter about having been rejected at a school where people with lower stats were accepted. I'm sorry...however, I do not think your opinions will sway the general attitude on these boards. SDN is one of the most supportive online pre-med communities and will continue to be. If someone with a 3.0 and 25 gets into medschool, I will not hesitate to say CONGRATS! Try being happy for other people...it might make you less bitter.

YAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!! Yay for everybody! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!


I'm just so happy for ALL of you! Leiface, you are the man/woman I want to be when I grow up. Maybe I need to kick up my therapy sessions to 5 times a week to work through my frustration and anger. Thank you for your compassion and understanding.

 

[leiface]

You're welcome!!! I'm glad we're in the same boat now By the way, if you ever need to talk, about anything, I'm here for you man. BTW, I'm the woman you want to be

 

[34140]

YAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!! Yay for everybody! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!


I'm just so happy for ALL of you! Leiface, you are the man/woman I want to be when I grow up. Maybe I need to kick up my therapy sessions to 5 times a week to work through my frustration and anger. Thank you for your compassion and understanding.

YOU are Loving every minute of this aren't you? The attention is what you crave

 

[JohnnyOU]

You're welcome!!! I'm glad we're in the same boat now By the way, if you ever need to talk, about anything, I'm here for you man. BTW, I'm the woman you want to be

Ha Ha Ha

J~

 

[kels]

it's really a shame that fun and being smart are mutually exclusive... well, at least according to the people in this thread...

it's funny that, whenever anyone brings up good grades or good mcat scores, someone's gotta comment on how that person is lifeless, suicidal, and depressed. have any of you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, people are able to do well without devoting all their energy to what they're doing?

 

[TRUE]

Dumpy: Not to sound harsh or anything, but if you're being this childish and trying to offend everyone on this board (and not reasoning or listening to the opinions of others at least), do you think this might have played a role in your application cycle? Physicians need to be understanding and def. listen to the input of others, which needless to say you're not doing right now.

 

[TRUE]

have any of you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, people are able to do well without devoting all their energy to what they're doing?

Oh I definitely thought about it for a little bit but then categorically rejected it...jk.

 

[Dumpy]

Dumpy: Not to sound harsh or anything, but if you're being this childish and trying to offend everyone on this board (and not reasoning or listening to the opinions of others at least), do you think this might have played a role in your application cycle? Physicians need to be understanding and def. listen to the input of others, which needless to say you're not doing right now.

Oh, but you assume too much. I WILL BE AMONG YOU, CLASS OF 2008'ers!



It's a 1 out of 117 chance... could I be going to your school?

 

[Persistence101]

Wow !!

Some of you guys are a piece of work !! I thought that some of my pals were joking about how elitist US MD candidates can be but I stand corrected. I don't care what anyone says, Academics are only one part of medicine believe it or not. I have been a nurse for 10 years and have worked critical care with some of the "smartest" docs in the country. They seem to have a common mindset. "damn I'm smart" this often prevents them from listening to the bus driver patient with an accent beacuse they feel that they are the superior intellectual being and therefore this person could not possibly tell them something that they don't already know. This often causes them to miss important aspects of the patients condition. I will be starting med school next fall and I will take these lessons with me and not get so caught up in my own greatness. I think that a dose of humility is important to being a competent physician. All of this I am better than he is a load of crap. BTW, who is more important to medicine in your opinion, a group of high scoring plastic surgeons giving lipo and fake boobs to size 2 Pam-a-Likes or one of your unworthy "rejects" making far less taking care of those who can't afford your "He aced everything from day one" doc. Your answer says alot about who you really are.

Excellent post!!

 

[camstah]

Well, with some a well thought out and coherent response, I have little hope of defending myself.

I made this post for a reason. I feel that a lot of people probably share the opinion that I stated, especially those of us that took the time and effort to do well. Does having a 4.0 and a 35 make you a good doctor? Absolutely not. Does having a 3.2 and a 25 make you somehow more worldly and personable? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Between the two classifications, which would you prefer to hav as your doctor? Let me guess, I'll get 25 posts saying "I would MUCH rather having a physician who is compassionate and caring, than some crazy gunner". No, you wouldn't. If you need to go under the knife or be treated for cancer, do you want the guy/girl that smiles the most? No, you want the person who knows their $hit because they spent their time studying and learning and perfecting. You can argue all you want, but I simply refuse to believe that people are willing to entrust their lives, or their loved-ones lives, to the underdog thats "just so NICE".

This site is just a collection of politically correct posts about "the person over the grades" and "everybody wins". The institution of this karma thing only exarcerbates this. Unfortunately, that's not the way the world works, especially not medicine. So, consider this a rude injection of reality into your Candy World.

i don't want to feed the troll, but....
i'll tell you exactly what is going to happen to you.
in medical school you will find yourself in the middle, not the brightest but not doing the worst either.....not what you expected.
it'll be painful, because you've based your entire self-worth on being the brightest, and looking down on those you don't think are as bright as you.
you won't know how to deal with it.
so, in an effort to be a part of the brightest in the class, you'll shun others, alienate yourself from most of your class, and you probably won't even realize it.
the only people that will still be nice to you, still try to include you, will be those very people you're poo-pooing now for getting into medical school through what you see as a flaw in the system, because they will in fact make up quite a bit of your class.
only then will you realize that you were young and quick to judge, and that these people can be as great a physician as you think you will be.
don't believe me now if you don't want to, but come back to this post in four years.
ciao.

 

[Dumpy]

i don't want to feed the troll, but....
i'll tell you exactly what is going to happen to you.
in medical school you will find yourself in the middle, not the brightest but not doing the worst either.....not what you expected.
it'll be painful, because you've based your entire self-worth on being the brightest, and looking down on those you don't think are as bright as you.
you won't know how to deal with it.
so, in an effort to be a part of the brightest in the class, you'll shun others, alienate yourself from most of your class, and you probably won't even realize it.
the only people that will still be nice to you, still try to include you, will be those very people you're poo-pooing now for getting into medical school through what you see as a flaw in the system, because they will in fact make up quite a bit of your class.
only then will you realize that you were young and quick to judge, and that these people can be as great a physician as you think you will be.
don't believe me now if you don't want to, but come back to this post in four years.
ciao.

Oh no.. tell me its not so! Will that really happen to me? Oh God, why didn't I think this through?! Here I was, thinking I was awesome, and then Camstah came along and proved to me that, indeed, I wasn't! Will I really shun them? Why would I do something so terrible? And do you really think that I will end up LIKING the people that I hate oh so much? I can't bear to think of it.

Thank you Camstah.

 

[sickofit]

Oh, but you assume too much. I WILL BE AMONG YOU, CLASS OF 2008'ers!

Dumpy-

I agree with you for the most part. But here's my question: why bother antagonizing these people? You know the PC responses you're going to get and you know you're not going to convince anyone that they're mistaken. Really you're just wasting everyone's time, UNLESS you just want attention. I agree with you, but you may have noticed my method of expression: silence. You can't change a thing about the system, not even peoples' minds. So do me a favor and give it a rest. You were amusing at first. Now you're just annoying.

 

[camstah]

Oh no.. tell me its not so! Will that really happen to me? Oh God, why didn't I think this through?! Here I was, thinking I was awesome, and then Camstah came along and proved to me that, indeed, I wasn't! Will I really shun them? Why would I do something so terrible? And do you really think that I will end up LIKING the people that I hate oh so much? I can't bear to think of it.

Thank you Camstah.

you're welcome....i'm just telling you what's to come. believe me or don't, it really doesn't make a difference....
and why call yourself dumpy? that's such a self-loathing kind of name...

 

[OTheHorror]

Do you people actually think Dumpy really thinks this?!

You all have absolutely no creativity, as evident by your inabilities to understand it's all a big joke.

Funny, though...stupid doctors...all you can do is memorize...thats why u all suck at verbal so much...

 

[Dumpy]

Do you people actually think Dumpy really thinks this?!

You all have absolutely no creativity, as evident by your inabilities to understand it's all a big joke.

Funny, though...stupid doctors...all you can do is memorize...thats why u all suck at verbal so much...

You know the best thing about this? On at least three occasions, I have acknowledged the fact that I'm just trying to pi$$ people off. They still keep coming at me like I'm a head-case that needs to be pitied.

As for Sickofit... I'm glad you found me amusing, initially. If I annoy you now, why the hell are you still in this thread? I hope your crusade of silent objection works out for you.

 

[camstah]

Do you people actually think Dumpy really thinks this?!

You all have absolutely no creativity, as evident by your inabilities to understand it's all a big joke.

Funny, though...stupid doctors...all you can do is memorize...thats why u all suck at verbal so much...

who sucks at verbal?
and of course we know this guy is just trying to get a rise out of us...sometimes it's just fun to play along

 

[Dr. N]

No I think Dumpy is right. Do you want to be treated by the doctor with 3.1 GPA?

 

[EastCoaster78]

You peeps been on this thread for way to long now. From the OP's initial post it is evident that the author is a little bit sour about having been regected with his SUPERIOR stats. He should be. He is obviosly an Ahole (from reading his posts) and shouldnt be a doctor no matter what the frig his GPA/MCAT were. The peeps with the 27's/3.3's were...get this...nice.

 

[Dumpy]

No I think Dumpy is right. Do you want to be treated by the doctor with 3.1 GPA?

Dr. N, what about all of the obvious personality benefits you get from a physician that only had a 3.1? Clearly they are better people than those who did better than them... didn't you see the graph that illustrates the inverse relationship between grades and likeability? I, for one, want the physician who is sub-par in intelligence/work ethic, rather than the one who "studied" and "learned things".

 

[Dr. N]

Dr. N, what about all of the obvious personality benefits you get from a physician that only had a 3.1? Clearly they are better people than those who did better than them... didn't you see the graph that illustrates the inverse relationship between grades and likeability? I, for one, want the physician who is sub-par in intelligence/work ethic, rather than the one who "studied" and "learned things".

I do not care much about doctors that speak nice and smart. I want to be a patient of the physician who went thru medschool and actually LEARNED.

 

[Fumoffu]

You peeps been on this thread for way to long now. From the OP's initial post it is evident that the author is a little bit sour about having been regected with his SUPERIOR stats. He should be. He is obviosly an Ahole (from reading his posts) and shouldnt be a doctor no matter what the frig his GPA/MCAT were. The peeps with the 27's/3.3's were...get this...nice.

Nah I don't think Dumpy is sour or anything. I think he got into whatever school he wanted to go to.

He does some valid points people! I wouldn't want a student in medical school, let alone be my physician, if he got in with inferior stats because of Affirmative Action, Legacy, connections, etc... I thought that most of these people fail out of med school but apparently not!

Remember, even if you claim that these "bad doctors" will get sued and eventually be kicked out of practice, what if you're 1 of those 5 patients he ends up killing?

One is too many if you're the one.

 

[Fumoffu]

I do not care much about doctors that speak nice and smart. I want to be a patient of the physician who went thru medschool and actually LEARNED.

Dumpy was being sarcastic and ridiculing his critics...

 

[Dumpy]

Dumpy was being sarcastic and ridiculing his critics...

Well, I know that we have at least one person on this forum that is smart enough to be a doctor!

In all seriousness, people on this forum are SEVERELY lacking in either 1) a sense of humor, or 2) ANY ability to detect sarcasm.

 

[OTheHorror]

Nah I don't think Dumpy is sour or anything. I think he got into whatever school he wanted to go to.

He does some valid points people! I wouldn't want a student in medical school, let alone be my physician, if he got in with inferior stats because of Affirmative Action, Legacy, connections, etc... I thought that most of these people fail out of med school but apparently not!

Remember, even if you claim that these "bad doctors" will get sued and eventually be kicked out of practice, what if you're 1 of those 5 patients he ends up killing?

One is too many if you're the one.

Speaking of Affirmative Action, have you all noticed how Randy from American Idol NEVER says anything bad about an African American singer...

I mean, comon...racism so blatantly obvious...

look at the statistics, people...what are the chances that half of the finalists would have been African American given that it probably made up 2% of the people who tried out...?

give me a BREAK!

 

[Squat n Squeeze]

Excellent post .

 

[JohnHolmes]

Excellent post .

Dude....YOUR BACK! We gotta get SNS up to a huge karma level. HE should be MODERATOR!

JH

 

[medicine2006]

It amazes me how the OP seems to be the expert on what makes a physician when he doesn't even sound like he's in medical school yet. The fact is that people with high MCAT and GPA get the majority of the spots anyways. It is the few left over spots in each class that the ADCOM will consider special attributes and experiences. These ADCOM people are MD and/or PhDs that do this for a living and they know what they are doing when they do occassionally select the candidate that has a 3.1 and 29 MCAT. Dumpy are you so arrogant as to say that you know better than the ADCOM people who should attend their medical school. Give me a break! Medicine is a priviledge and holds with it a lot of responsibility. Medicine is NOT a right. Society foots the bill for med school education (your tuition no matter how high does not cover the full cost of producing an MD) and the federal government subsidizes residency training. It is important that for the well being of society that med schools set aside some (not a lot but some) spots for people who may not have the best numbers but are willing to work in underserved areas or who is really dedicated to the true mission of medicine.

 

[rager1]

SnS Your post was far too short. Like a drug dealer you keep me waiting and wanting more...not that I have a dealer...anymore...umm...

 

[Fumoffu]

You guys know what happens when an unqualified medical school student starts practicing right?

The next time you need heart surgery, your heart is going to be replaced by a baked potato!

Then you'll die and go to Hell where you can watch Satan and Saddam make sweet lovin' for all eternity.

 

[Dumpy]

It amazes me how the OP seems to be the expert on what makes a physician when he doesn't even sound like he's in medical school yet. The fact is that people with high MCAT and GPA get the majority of the spots anyways. It is the few left over spots in each class that the ADCOM will consider special attributes and experiences. These ADCOM people are MD and/or PhDs that do this for a living and they know what they are doing when they do occassionally select the candidate that has a 3.1 and 29 MCAT. Dumpy are you so arrogant as to say that you know better than the ADCOM people who should attend their medical school. Give me a break! Medicine is a priviledge and holds with it a lot of responsibility. Medicine is NOT a right. Society foots the bill for med school education (your tuition no matter how high does not cover the full cost of producing an MD) and the federal government subsidizes residency training. It is important that for the well being of society that med schools set aside some (not a lot but some) spots for people who may not have the best numbers but are willing to work in underserved areas or who is really dedicated to the true mission of medicine.

What is medicine? Its a what and a responsibility? A privELEGE? Jackass. Learn to spell before you attack me; you're not impressing anyone.

And if you think for one minute that I feel that I owe a debt to society for taking $120,000+ in loans for an education, you're an idiot. Anyone who does kiss the invisible funding source's ass is an idiot. There is no such generosity to be thanked, especially after you spend the first 2-5 years after medical school working 80 hours a week for the same salary as a McDonald's manager.

Wow... you actually made me angry. Huh.

 

[medicine2006]

Dumpy,

You still didn't answer my question you arrogant prick! What makes you think you know more than the Admissions Committee?!

 

[Dumpy]

Dumpy,

You still didn't answer my question you arrogant prick! What makes you think you know more than the Admissions Committee?!

Because I'm smarter than you and them. That's how I know. Happy?