unreal - is this what I have to look forward to as a DO?

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Echinoidea

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I typed 'osteopathic' into google's news search tonight, because I like to see what news articles mention it. Anyway, here is what I found:a lawyer calling into question an osteopathic medical degree.

This is why we get a 'chip on our shoulder'. It makes me want to scream.

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Hmmm ... maybe the AOA should send him a letter threatening him with slander (of a legally recognized profession)

But yeah, what do you expect from defense attorneys

But if the prosecutor is really concern, under re-direct

"Are you recognized by the state of NJ as a full physician with all rights and privilages associated with being a physician?"

Are you licenced in the state of NJ to practice medicine?

Are you board-certified?

How long have you been practicing medicine?


But this is only if the prosecutor feels the credibility have been weakened (I'm surprise the prosecutor didn't object to that line of questioning)

But anyway, whether or not "he applied to a real medical school" is irrelevant to the case, and pursuing it would confuse the jury (and take the case on a tangent)

But then again, I'm just Joe Public with no legal training - there are some lawyers on this board, I wonder if they would chime in
 
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"After learning Diamond had attended a school of osteopathic medicine, Kelly asked, "Did you ever apply to a real medical school?"

Just recently my aunt came back from Puerto Rico, and along she brought some pamphlets from a medical school down there. She said that her friends had "confirmed" that D.O. is not a medical degree. :rolleyes: They don't even know what the MCAT is.
 
Originally posted by dollarbincommon
They don't even know what the MCAT is.


HEY!!! I know what the MCAT is. It's the Monorail Conductors Aptitude Test.

I took this test a while back so that I could drive this really cool (although shadily constructed) monorail built in this generic city (it has a nuclear power plant).

Unfortunately, the monorail went crazy and almost killed a lot of people but thankfully with a fellow SDNer's (H0mersimps0n) quick thinking, a giant donut saved the day.

+pad+
 
Originally posted by group_theory
HEY!!! I know what the MCAT is. It's the Monorail Conductors Aptitude Test.

I took this test a while back so that I could drive this really cool (although shadily constructed) monorail built in this generic city (it has a nuclear power plant).

Unfortunately, the monorail went crazy and almost killed a lot of people but thankfully with a fellow SDNer's (H0mersimps0n) quick thinking, a giant donut saved the day.

+pad+

Its always a good day when you talk about the simpsons....

as for dollarbincommon, I am sure you know that osteopaths outside the US mostly have different ideals and are not considered full physicians like the US. With regards to your aunt, its just an opportunity to educate :)
 
I worked part-time during medical school as a medical malpractice defense paralegal, and we had cases that involved DOs, but nowhere, at ALL, was it ever an issue in regards to "equal" training or anything of the sort. It was not an issue. Even in the eyes of hte plaintiff attorney.

Q, DO
 
Just shows you what a lawyer will do in order to get a high profile murdering thug of a client off.
 
that is absolutely terrible. I wish we could take some legal action against this lawyer. what an ignorant fool.
 
In all fairness we need to realize that the defense attorney was only doing his/her job....trying every angle possible to win the case.

Maybe the AOA should make a stink about this. Almost certain they won't, but maybe it would bring to light some of the still ridiculous discrepancies from area to area on what a DO is.

dollarbillincommon: give me your aunt's phone number and address. I will "convince" her that DOs are real doctors. (Godfather music in the background)
 
Let's not also forget that this trial was in the East Coast. And from my experience, the only area of this country that still harbors anti-DO sentiment to any degree is the East Coast. If this trial was in the Midwest, South or the West Coast, it wouldn't have been raised in court

And regardint how DO's are viewed outside the United States (Well Puerto Rico is an American territory)...WHO CARES! It cracks me up when people try to attack DO's by saying you can't practice outside the United States. Like I have any interest in living let alone practicing medicine outsideof the United States. If it is limitation that I can't practice medicine in Mexico so be it. :)
 
I really don't think there is much anti-DO sentiment on the East Coast. I rotated in NYC and on Long Island..and went to school in Southern Florida.

New York was quite friendly and responsive....I can't speak for the reast of the North East....but with NYCOM, PCOM, UNECOM, VCOM, NOVA, LECOM and the new LECOM opening...people will have more and more exposure....
 
Yosh, dont forget umdnj som that is right in NJ. :) I live in NJ and have come across quite a few do's here, of whom work side by side with MD's. I really don't think there is any bad sentiment towards them, this is just a case of a defense lawyer trying everything in the book to get his client off.
 
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I think we should all support the prosecution and help send Jayson Williams serve his due time in prison for manslaughter. The guy was obviously covering things up. He has shown that he is completely reckless with handling a gun. Seeing Williams guilty will be even more of a blow to Michael T. Kelly's psyche. This lawyer has reached a desperate the situation to even make a comment like that. The guy went to Albany Law School, which is certainly not a good law school.

Here is his bio
 
What I want to know is, what was the reply from the pathologist. I would have replied with "I do not understand the question. Are you questioning my ability or license to practice medicne?"

I would like to take this old fart out back and open up a can of woopass on him.

This is just one more reason why I dislike lawyers. They have thrown morality out the window for pure win/loss records.

If there is a hell they are surely the first to go. Followed by, well they know who they are!



Raptor5
 
As everyone has their own opinions, I do believe the AOA should release a statement, either directly to the New York Bar association, and/or to the paper that ran the quote. While many think this would blow the issue out of proportion, I think in such a high profile case as this, it could have a negative effect on some of the public?s perception of what an osteopath actually is. The AOA is/has spent millions of dollars advertising what a DO is and does, and the benefits of osteopathic medicine, in a case that is followed by so many, a strong negative comment like this only puts the profession back a few steps. It is not like Mr. Kelly questioned this physician?s board certification/ or past mistakes/record, he went at him merely for the fact that he attended an osteopathic institution, directly inferring that this and all osteopathic institutions are not real ?medical schools? Mr. Kelly should see repercussions for his statement, I hope everyone will write the AOA urging a statement, and also the New York State Bar Association making well-known that this was highly inappropriate and needs to be accounted for.
drvlad2004, I totally agree if he wants to trade prestige in schools, Albany Law School is what tier III law school?
 
Originally posted by group_theory
HEY!!! I know what the MCAT is. It's the Monorail Conductors Aptitude Test.

I took this test a while back so that I could drive this really cool (although shadily constructed) monorail built in this generic city (it has a nuclear power plant).

Unfortunately, the monorail went crazy and almost killed a lot of people but thankfully with a fellow SDNer's (H0mersimps0n) quick thinking, a giant donut saved the day.

+pad+


Yeah, those possums distracted me but thank god for the song and a personal thank-you goes to the LARD LAD corporation:

Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?

Ned Flanders: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: What's it called?

Patty+Selma: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!

[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]

Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...

Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.

Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?

Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.

Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?

Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.

Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?

Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.

Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.

Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.

I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!

All: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: What's it called?

All: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: Once again...

All: Monorail!

Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...

Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!

All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!

[big finish]

Monorail!

Homer: Mono... D'oh!





-RIP- PHIL HARTMAN -RIP- the worst loss in cartoon history +pity+
 
If I were the judge, I would definitely disqualify this lawyer's right to questioning anyone on the stand. By all means if this lawyer does not know what a DO is, considering this case is medically related, then he is not the right type of lawyer for this trial. It's like asking a corporate lawyer to prosecute a murder in a homicide case. This would only lead to mistrial and waste tax payers' money.

All I see here is a dumass lawyer who runs out of the reasons to argue in the court, and is throwing bunch of nonsense accusations at the witness on the stand, very typical of lawyers in that nature. (Sorry sis, by no means to offend your occupation.)

My advice to Mr. Kelly is do your homework thoroughly before making yourself look like a jackass in the courtroom.

"Your honor, I have no more use for this youts."
 
Wow...I just read that article, and it's messed up. I can't believe a lawyer would ask that...it just goes to show how low people will go.
 
HI,

Sure, this lawyer is ignorant scum. But I also sort of blame the Osteopathic profession. More specifically, I blame our incompetent leadership. If they had worked harder to raise the public profile of osteopathy, it would not even be possible for this jackass from Albany Law School to make a statement like this.

I mean, AT Still "flung the banner" in 1874, yet no one knows who the hell we are. Depressing.
 
Originally posted by Molly Maquire
HI,

Sure, this lawyer is ignorant scum. But I also sort of blame the Osteopathic profession. More specifically, I blame our incompetent leadership. If they had worked harder to raise the public profile of osteopathy, it would not even be possible for this jackass from Albany Law School to make a statement like this.

Yeah, I guess that's kinda true also. Honestly, I didn't know what a DO was until a few months after i started med school, and a DO had a lecture. A couple of us were like, what the heck is a DO...we had PH.D's and MD's lecture us, but never DO's.
 
Apparently, not only lawyers lie--newspapers do, too.
Here's another account of this trial, from http://www.courttv.com/trials/jaysonwilliams/021904_ctv.html

"Defense lawyer Michael Kelly pressed Diamond about his findings, pointing out that the pathologist never wrote in his autopsy report that Christofi was in a defensive posture.

Diamond said the conclusion was only an assumption or supposition, not part of the "factual aspects of the case" he included in the document.

"The supposition is my own opinion, which I did not put in my report," he said.

Kelly pushed Diamond further, noting that he was not a board-certified forensic pathologist and was so concerned about his lack of experience with shotgun wounds that he called in a colleague to assist at the autopsy.

The defense has hired noted forensic pathologist Michael Baden to review Christofi's injuries, and he is expected to testify later in the trial."

Hmmm...sounds much different than the Ledger article, doesn't it.
 
I did let the AOA know about this, and this is the reply from the AOA I got, I think it works for me:

February 27, 2004


The Express-Times
Letters to the Editor
PO Box 391
Easton, PA 18044-0391

To the Editor:

The Jayson Williams trial involves a former sports figure and the loss of an individual?s life. This combination attracts the attention of many people throughout the country and has the potential for many to form misperceptions about osteopathic physicians (D.O.s).

In your February 20, 2004 article, ?Williams? Driver Tried to Save Himself, Pathologist Testified,? you mention the defense attorney?s attempts to discredit the medical examiner who is a D.O. He asks Dr. Steve Diamond if he went to a ?real? medical school. While the public may be aware that these simply are defense attorney tactics, I believe the Times-Express did a disservice to the osteopathic profession by including the quote. The reality is that D.O.s are fully-licensed physicians who can prescribe medication and perform surgery in all the same areas as M.D.s.

In fact, Dr. Diamond did go to a ?real? medical school along with more than 52,000 other D.O.s across the country. One of 20 osteopathic medical schools is even located in your state less than 100 miles away from your office? the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine. From these schools, D.O.s have gone on to treat presidents of the United States, Olympic athletes and high-ranking Army officials.

I bet no one questions whether these physicians are ?real? doctors. I invite your readers to visit www.osteopathic.org to find out more about D.O.s and osteopathic medicine.



Sincerely,
Darryl A. Beehler, D.O.
2003-2004 President
American Osteopathic Association
 
wow, I'm not a huge fan of Dr. Beehler for his support of the COMLEX PE, but my opinion of him just shot up a bit. This is a great response and should be forwarded to all of the newspapers that ran that story. (I believe it was picked up by one of the newswires.)

WBDO
 
...see? You actually can get something done by going straight to the top sometimes!

While a little on the testy side, it's at least a strong response, and hopefully will get printed.
 
I have had this discussion with several of my attendings. Attorneys on both sides pretty much lie. Your attorney is going to make you out like the second coming of christ and the opposing attorney is going to try to portray you as jack the ripper. Attacking the DO after your name is common place, b/c there is not a lot of public awareness about the osteopathic profession. It is something we should all be aware of and probably expect when we are sued. Notice I said when, not if. We should all also be prepared for the flurry of lies and propaganda the opposing attorney is going to throw out there. Malpractice trials are stressful due not only to this but b/c it takes so long to get them resolved and takes up our limited time and resources. However, this is the reality of medicine today, and we all need to be aware of what the worst case scenario is and be prepared for it.
 
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