upenn or Hopkins

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tram

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Chose Upenn/ Hopkins
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penn, clear a spot at hopkins for those of us on that waitlist
 
Both are overrated. Don't attend either. Snub them. That will show them both.
 
i'd def go w/ penn- but then again, i'd probably do the 5 year md/mba track, which would be sick there.
 
I'd go with Penn. Besides the fact that Philly is so much better and Penn has one of the best curricula around, I think what's nice is that the medical community knows Penn is great, but with lay people they won't assume you're a snooty elitist college person (unless, of course, that's what you're going for - then go for Hopkins).
 
hopkins is cool.....but I would personally choose penn.
 
Bumping Tram's original Penn v Hopkins thread. I'm curious to get some more perspectives. I'm in at Penn, and waitlisted at Hopkins. I loved everything about Penn (especially its curriculum and students), and can see myself being very happy living in Philly. In contrast, the only attractive aspect about Hopkins to me is its name/rep. Living in Baltimore, well, yuck. Seems more cutthroat to me too. If I do get in to Hopkins, I'm not sure I'd want to go. Would I be silly to turn down the opportunity to train at Hopkins? I mean, it's Penn. It's not like I'm making a huge sacrifice here, right?
 
The University of Pennsylvania is perhaps the most overrated institution in the United States.

And don't think U Penn medical students aren't snooty. They are, from personal encounters I've had, perhaps the most snooty out of any school at Penn (even Wharton).

Choose Hopkins if you get in. Better hospital, better faculty, better residency placement, better students.
 
yoyoma5 said:
The University of Pennsylvania is perhaps the most overrated institution in the United States.

And don't think U Penn medical students aren't snooty. They are, from personal encounters I've had, perhaps the most snooty out of any school at Penn (even Wharton).

Choose Hopkins if you get in. Better hospital, better faculty, better residency placement, better students.
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Overrated? The thing I love about Penn is that most people assume it's Penn State and have no idea...
 
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i am choosing penn over hopkins. a huge part of this for me is financial stuff, but i found that i experienced this sense of relief when i made my choice because i was really depressed about moving to baltimore and i felt uncomfortable about the hopkins grading system. i think they are both great schools though, and the hopkins fourth-years that i met all seemed really cool and happy so i'm sure i could have been ok at either school. obviously hopkins has a slight edge in name/reputation, but for me the penn advantage in location and curriculum (a whole extra semester for electives/global health/whatever! plus an early start with clinical work that seems to really help with USMLE) won out, and probably would have won me over even without the financial advantage. honestly it is just a matter of personal preference in the end.
 
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Am I the only one who thinks that Penn and Hopkins are almost virtually identical in every way?

Baltimore sucks, but so does Philly. Penn has a slight edge there. They are both in ghettoish areas. Hopkins has a slight edge in reputation. Both have fairly stressful grading systems--I actually thought that Penn students were a little more stressed first year about their rank than were Hopkins students, who seemed to all think: "my grades don't matter because I go to Hopkins." For me, this would be an impossible decision, so I would decide purely based on finances.
 
Towelie said:
Am I the only one who thinks that Penn and Hopkins are almost virtually identical in every way?
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One place they differ significantly (for me at least) is that Penn does not have a school of public health; this was why I did not apply there, despite it being otherwise a first-rate place (and as for reputation, I doubt there are very many people in the medical world who aren't familiar with Penn as an elite school). As for location, I don't think there is much difference between Philly and Baltimore--both are manageable and affordable towns, not especially glamorous. I don't think the OP can go wrong either way.
 
zeff said:
One place they differ significantly (for me at least) is that Penn does not have a school of public health; this was why I did not apply there, despite it being otherwise a first-rate place (and as for reputation, I doubt there are very many people in the medical world who aren't familiar with Penn as an elite school). As for location, I don't think there is much difference between Philly and Baltimore--both are manageable and affordable towns, not especially glamorous. I don't think the OP can go wrong either way.
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just to clarify, there is a graduate program in public health at penn so you can do an MPH there, it is just through the school of medicine instead of a separate public health school. plus there are tons of global health opportunities if you're interested in public health.
as to philly vs. baltimore, haven't spent much time in baltimore but did my undergrad in philly, it is an awesome city and if university city/penn's part of west philly is ghetto than i don't know what is nice. there are crappy parts of philly, but there are also tons of really nice parts, and penn's area is one of them. i guess this is also a matter of personal preference, but the idea that penn is in a "bad" neighborhood is pretty dated...it certainly was less pleasant 20 years ago, but now it is really gentrified (whether this is for good or evil is i guess a personal decision).
 
Towelie said:
Am I the only one who thinks that Penn and Hopkins are almost virtually identical in every way?

Baltimore sucks, but so does Philly. Penn has a slight edge there. They are both in ghettoish areas. Hopkins has a slight edge in reputation. Both have fairly stressful grading systems--I actually thought that Penn students were a little more stressed first year about their rank than were Hopkins students, who seemed to all think: "my grades don't matter because I go to Hopkins." For me, this would be an impossible decision, so I would decide purely based on finances.
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hahahaha. Peole get too caught up in rankings. Apparently to most people on here there is a world of difference between number 2 and number 4 even though there really isn't that much difference in magnitude of the facilities or school.
 
getting into either school is impossible anyway
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It is? :confused:

Both are overrated. Don't attend either. Snub them. That will show them both.
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:laugh:

i'd def go w/ penn- but then again, i'd probably do the 5 year md/mba track, which would be sick there.
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I hope you have some business experience. Wharton doesn't just automatically let you into that track just because you're interested. No offense if you do, I've just seen this many times.

I'd go with Penn. Besides the fact that Philly is so much better and Penn has one of the best curricula around
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There's a bunch of things I personally don't like about the cirriculum, but the 1.5 year of basic science thing is nice.

The University of Pennsylvania is perhaps the most overrated institution in the United States.

And don't think U Penn medical students aren't snooty. They are, from personal encounters I've had, perhaps the most snooty out of any school at Penn (even Wharton).

Choose Hopkins if you get in. Better hospital, better faculty, better residency placement, better students.
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uhhhh, ok dok. Some students are snooty, some aren't. I wouldn't put it near as strongly as you did. I have no idea what you're getting at here. Better hospital/faculty/residency placement/students? Put up or shut up here. That's just ridiculous and I suspect you're just a troll. If you want to split hairs, we can do that, but things are nowhere near this clean cut.

Baltimore sucks, but so does Philly. Penn has a slight edge there.
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How does Philly suck? It's wayyyyyy better than Baltimore. It's one of the best cities in this country to live in IMO. Baltimore has the harbor area. That's pretty much it until you get into the burbs. That area is very small, has little, and Hopkins isn't even close to it. It's as expensive there as Philly to boot. Penn's immediate area is pretty nice and they're right next to Center City which is fairly sizeable and nice.

Both have fairly stressful grading systems--I actually thought that Penn students were a little more stressed first year about their rank than were Hopkins students, who seemed to all think: "my grades don't matter because I go to Hopkins."
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Rank? What rank? I didn't even know we had a rank. P/F and H/P/F are really stressful? Sure I think they should get rid of the H/P/F and alot of students do push for that H for reasons I don't understand, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as you say it is. When I applied Hopkins had grades for basic science. THAT seems much worse to me.

just to clarify, there is a graduate program in public health at penn so you can do an MPH there, it is just through the school of medicine instead of a separate public health school. plus there are tons of global health opportunities if you're interested in public health.
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Hopkins is much stronger in Public Health. I don't think you can even defend Penn there. I've had serious issues with the global health office here, but it hasn't stopped me from going around the world anyways. I guess they key is if you can convince them you want to make a career out of it, they'll often throw money at you to go abroad.
 
I'll just respond to a bit of what you posted:

Philly and Baltimore are not the same price: Baltimore is MUCH cheaper. The housing market isn't even close. Check it out for yourself if you want to.

As far as why Philly blows, I've posted about this elsewhere, but I guess it's a matter of personal preference. I lived in Philly for 2 years. The people are more bitter and miserable than any city that I've been to, and often they are just plain mean. You get absolutely none of the friendliness that you'll find in some other cities. And there really isn't much great to do in Philly, compared to cities like Boston, New York, Chicago, and LA. West Philly is a ghetto, and Penn students are definitely targets. A few 1st year Penn Med students were robbed at gunpoint last year--they told us this on our interview day. Hopkins may be in a ghetto, but the security force is so huge that there hasn't been a robbery on the med school campus in over 2 years. So, Philly may be better than Baltimore, but not by much.

From what I understand, Penn has AOA and a class rank, just like Hopkins does. The students at Hopkins mentioned that it was difficult to even find out what your grades were, and that most students didn't even bother. The students at Penn mentioned that the switch to H/P/F made things stressful. That was just my impression. Obviously you would know more about this than me.

That said, I still loved Penn. I just don't really like Philly. If I did go to Penn, I would definitely live in center city, as I'm sure most students do.
 
As a Penn alumni who is also planning on returning there for med school, I feel the need to comment. Philly is a great city and probably one of the most underated cities. I can't comment on Baltimore, but Philly has a great night life, great restaurants and really nice aparments at reasonable prices. There is a ton of new construction going on both due to a 10 year tax abatement and Penn buying up a ton of property. I loved Penn/Philly as an undergrad and they have only made amazing approvements there since I graduated (New research building, five story gym, new Wharton building, etc.) I have been in NYC for the past seven years, so don't think I am returning to Philly from some unexciting city.

As to the curriculum, I didn't interview at Hopkins, but I would be shocked if the curriculum was the same as Penn's. I would also be shocked if the student's were more laid back. Everyone I have spoken to at Penn Med and who has graduated loved it and described it as a "Cush" environment. I have never heard that in regards to Hopkins.

Finally, Penn is Pass/Fail for year one and then Pass/Fail/Honors. I don't know about you guys, but I am fine with a slight distinction in grades. I like to think that performance has something to do with how residencies are chosen and not just contacts and fortunate interactions.
 
WitchDoctor said:
i never thought that i would ever want to defend Philadelphia but after this post, I think that I do.

Towelie, I'm extremely offended by your constant use of the word "ghetto" when talking about Philly (and Baltimore) for that matter. I highly doubt you actually know what a true ghetto is. Just because a certain city has a significant percentage of lower-income people of color, especially Black people, does not mean that you can automatically label the place as a "ghetto". There are places which are depressed but as an entire community, all of West Philadelphia can not be called by that term. It is inaccurate as well as morally condescending. You would probably know this if you explored the area a bit more.
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I do agree that the use of the term ghetto to describe to area around Penn is inaccurate. If you ever lived in or spent time in a real "ghetto" you would know that West Philly where Penn is really isn't that bad. Yea, there are a lot of minorities there, yea there are some low income individuals, yea there may be some older buildings, but its really not the ghetto. I know more about Baltimore than Philly as a whole, and as such do know some areas I would identify as ghetto not too far from Hopkins.....ie drugs being sold on the streets and prostitution taking place. Yet and still this is not on the campus or even within a couple mile radius of it. I think that if you want to compare Penn and Hopkins or Philly and Baltimore for that matter, you should compare other things about it than which one is more ghetto than the other or where people are more likely to get mugged. (ie. restuarants, sports, transportation, nightlife). In my opinion, Philly offers more in these categories. Muggings can happen anywhere. If someone is going to be constantly fearful living in the inner city maybe they should go to a school elsewhere. You just have to be smart about what you do.
 
Here is the definition of ghetto: "a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships."

So, yes, I CAN label West Philly as a ghetto, because it is one. As someone who has lived in Philly for several years, I can say with confidence that West Philadelphia is generally thought of as a ghetto within the city. I'm sorry if the term offends you, but to call it "morally condescending" is an absolute joke. Does it really make me a racist to think that West Philly is dangerous? Come on. Clearly, not every square inch of West Philly is "depressed," but other than the Penn students it is a very poor, and fairly dangerous area.

If you don't believe me about the muggings, ask any second year student at Penn about students who got robbed at gunpoint last year. I know it happened. You can choose to believe it or ignore it.

Like I said before, I love Penn as a school. I love the curriculum. I love, as you said, that you can get involved in the community and make a difference. But I don't love the city. I don't love Baltimore either, or St. Louis, or many of the cities with great medical schools.


As far as the other poster, he is right--Philly does have great restaurants and a good night life. I guess what I don't like is how mean and miserable people are there, compared to other cities.
 
You really should ask your fiance. I understand that it happened right before thanksgiving last year (2005).


I guess I was using ghetto as more of a slang term to mean "bad neighborhood." I didn't mean to offend. Obviously very few Penn students get robbed, and every student that I met seemed to love it there.
 
Neuronix said:
uhhhh, ok dok. Some students are snooty, some aren't. I wouldn't put it near as strongly as you did. I have no idea what you're getting at here. Better hospital/faculty/residency placement/students? Put up or shut up here. That's just ridiculous and I suspect you're just a troll. If you want to split hairs, we can do that, but things are nowhere near this clean cut.
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Sifting the through the bias which pervades your post, "Neuronix," (as well as your deplorable grammar skills and tendency to resort to childish name-calling), please allow me to present my argument again to somebody who is clearly on the fence between the two schools. If you call a consistent ranking of number 1 in terms of overall hospital rating, a residency match list that doesn't involve 75% of the class staying at their medical alma mater (don't even try and tell me that most of you don't just end up staying at HUP), and the lack of an absurd slogan like "we are medicine" to convince people in the Delaware Valley to choose their health system "splitting hairs," then so be it. Also keep in mind that the institution had to invent the "early decision" system for its undergraduate school in order to increase yield, and thus its US News ranking, which has a fallout effect for its graduate school ranking.

Also, coming from a resident of Cherry Hill, NJ (I've lived 15 minutes from Philly my entire life), Philly does indeed suck. In terms of crime, both Baltimore and Philly have similar felony rates, and both of their medical campuses have more security surrounding them than the Pentagon. Baltimore is a more interesting city anyway to boot, as it has better food (crabs!) and architecture which gives the city much more character than Philly.

Trust me; I know that some students at Hopkins or Harvard may be snooty and arrogant. What's more infuriating about Penn, however, is that the students there have no arguable reason to be.
 
Yoyoma, you are hilarious.

That said, if you're trying to convince people that Penn isn't one of the best medical schools in the country, I think you are on a fool's errand.
 
Towelie said:
Yoyoma, you are hilarious.

That said, if you're trying to convince people that Penn isn't one of the best medical schools in the country, I think you are on a fool's errand.
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Agree with the latter part. If you think Baltimore is so great, then attend Hopkins over Penn and leave it alone already. Personally, I'd rather live in Philadelphia any day and that includes the "ghetto" that is West Philadelphia. However, I would argue that there's a big difference between West Philly at 46th and Market Street versus 48th in Baltimore, 42nd and Spruce, or 48th and Walnut. As with much of Philly, the condition of the neighborhood is really block specific and to say that the entire West Philly area is "ghetto" and should be avoided is really short sighted. Plus, just because you go to Penn you don't have to live there if you hate it so much - Center City is uniformally quite nice. I don't have as much experience with Baltimore except for the touristy aquarium area (which is awesome), but I'd be willing to bet poverty exists there too! I also think that somehow saying that Hopkins is better than Penn because it's a US News ranking above or because Penn students can be snotty (And you can vouch for all Hopkins and Penn students to make the comparison???) is really really stupid. It's definitely splitting hairs and at that point, you have to designate what each school is better in instead of some general "OMG Penn sucks and Hopkins in the demigod of medicine." Johns Hopkins is hands down better in public health in my opinion. Penn is better in certain areas of structural biology and probably lots of other stuff I would have known about if I hadn't taken advantage of their top tier anthropology program instead. Both produce quality physicians that go around the country for residency (not just staying at HUP - although since it is one of the top hospitals in many specialty ranking lists that kind of makes sense, as does staying at CHOP since it's consistently ranked the number one hospital for pediatrics...)

Ultimately, OP I'd say go with your gut. If your gut isn't telling you which one is best for you personally based on your interests, significant other/family situation, et cetera, pick the cheaper one in terms of scholarship money and leave it at that.
 
peezyweezy said:
I know more about Baltimore than Philly as a whole, and as such do know some areas I would identify as ghetto not too far from Hopkins.....ie drugs being sold on the streets and prostitution taking place. Yet and still this is not on the campus or even within a couple mile radius of it.
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Completely disagree. I've been living at the Hopkins campus for 6 years now, and there is plenty of drug activity and prostitution on North Avenue, which is within a 2 mile radius. Also lots of drug activity and shootings up and down Greenmount Avenue.

It is getting even worse, as Hopkins is expanding, the inner city community and the college campus is starting to mix. There has been some trouble - the two murders in the last three years, the stabbings, and countless muggings (they post security bulletins about crimes against students - there are more of those flyers each week than those created by student clubs).

They've tried to increase security around JHU for a while, but the security force at Hopkins is laughable due to the fact that most of the force are retired policemen and law enforcement (40 yrs old and higher) and also they carry NO weapons. And the criminals know this all too well.

And that's just the undergrad campus. The medical campus is near central booking, a correctional facility, and the Scores stripjoint. In fact a few faculty/student parking lots are right across the street from the strip joint and correctional facility. So you can imagine what that is like - JHMI students and employees are an easy target.

Don't know anything about Philly, but don't be quick to discount Baltimore! I saw on the local news the other night that as of recently Baltimore has slightly more homicides than New York City for 2007 (somewhere nearing 80-90). NYC has 8 million residents. Baltimore has around 600,000-700,000.

"We gotta go to Iraq because they're the most dangerous country on earth, they're the most dangerous regime in the world. If they so dangerous, how come it only took two weeks to take over the whole f***ing country? Sh**. Man, you couldn't take over Baltimore in two weeks..."
-Chris Rock
 
yoyoma5 said:
Sifting the through the bias which pervades your post, "Neuronix," (as well as your deplorable grammar skills and tendency to resort to childish name-calling),
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Uh, where does Neuronix reduce to childish name-calling in his post? I can't find it so maybe you can help point it out...:rolleyes: Also, just because one voices an opinion that differs from yours doesn't somehow point to inherent biases.

I personally like Penn. Yes, there's crime and I've had a couple of friends who've been robbed over the last six years - both times around 1-3am in West Philly. There was also a foot fetish attacker around my neighborhood for awhile recently and I'm not sure if he was caught. However, even watching the news when I'm visiting my family (Who live in a mostly white, middle class suburb relatively far away from a city with security systems and gated communities) I see discussions about crime nearby. I think that, yes, there are some snotty students in the bunch, but I'd argue that a certain amount of snotty students radiate at every school. I also think that a stupid health system slogan doesn't equate to a crappy medical school or one that's "beneath" the coveted Hopkins or Harvard spots and to claim that it does clearly demonstrates both your unjustified bias against Penn and your inability to come up with hard facts comparing Hopkins and Penn by financial status, funding numbers, and specific accolades. I actually know current Penn medical students who eagerly chose to attend Penn over Hopkins and Harvard and they're not exactly going to be suffering as a result come match day. Also, Penn was number 4 in the undergraduate US News rankings while I went there, accepting about 15-20% of students who applied depending on the year. I'd hardly call that a noncompetitive admissions environment that lessens the reputation of Penn's other schools including the law school, Wharton, the nursing school, and of course the SOM. Finally, get your facts straight - Penn wasn't the first school to go early decision with undergrad admissions - Harvard, Yale, and Princeton were in 1954 followed by the seven sister schools in 1958.
 
They gave us a pamphlet at the JHU interview saying that there hasn't been a robbery on the medical school campus in several years, because of the heavy security. The 4th years seemed to vouch for this, but I suppose it could have been a part of the whole propaganda/recruitment thing.
 
Towelie said:
Philly and Baltimore are not the same price: Baltimore is MUCH cheaper. The housing market isn't even close. Check it out for yourself if you want to.
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Compare apples to apples. If you look at nice places in Philly they're similar to the inner harbor area. Of you look at the not so nice places in Philly (far west Philly), they'll be similar to most parts of Baltimore.

The people are more bitter and miserable than any city that I've been to, and often they are just plain mean. You get absolutely none of the friendliness that you'll find in some other cities.
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Agreed. I don't like that part of Philly either. It's not that much worse than the other NE cities, however, including Baltimore.

And there really isn't much great to do in Philly, compared to cities like Boston, New York, Chicago, and LA.
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Agreed. But still much more than Baltimore.

West Philly is a ghetto, and Penn students are definitely targets. A few 1st year Penn Med students were robbed at gunpoint last year--they told us this on our interview day. Hopkins may be in a ghetto, but the security force is so huge that there hasn't been a robbery on the med school campus in over 2 years. So, Philly may be better than Baltimore, but not by much.
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I haven't heard of anyone robbing anyone ON PENN CAMPUS either. This is very rare. The students that get robbed get robbed off campus. At Hopkins everyone either lives in campus, very close to campus, or commutes in. At Penn people feel safer and tend to walk up to a mile or more to class every day. There is alot of security on and near Penn campus these days. Look at Temple for example. Nobody is getting robbed there. But none of the students even live close to the med school in the middle of the north Philly ghetto.

From what I understand, Penn has AOA and a class rank, just like Hopkins does.
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Almost all schools do. Hopkins had *grades*

The students at Hopkins mentioned that it was difficult to even find out what your grades were, and that most students didn't even bother. The students at Penn mentioned that the switch to H/P/F made things stressful. That was just my impression. Obviously you would know more about this than me.
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I agree, the switch does make things more stressful. But, if it was H/P/F or even *gasp* H/HP/P/F from the get-go, would it be even more stressful? Maybe the Penn students (myself included) complain about this because the first six months are so relaxed.

That said, I still loved Penn. I just don't really like Philly. If I did go to Penn, I would definitely live in center city, as I'm sure most students do.
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It's about half and half I'd say. Most of the grad students live in West Philly. I still don't think West Philly is as bad as you make it out to be. The area around Penn is certainly not ghetto. If you go into far West Philly, say 10+ blocks from Penn, it gets that way.
 
Towelie said:
They gave us a pamphlet at the JHU interview saying that there hasn't been a robbery on the medical school campus in several years, because of the heavy security. The 4th years seemed to vouch for this, but I suppose it could have been a part of the whole propaganda/recruitment thing.
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OH TOTAL BS. The only thing heavy about the security are the employees themselves. I'd give anything to see any of those old porkers run down a perp. Even if they did, they have little training and no weapons so not sure what they'd do.

I did a research report for one of my undergrad courses a while back where I analyzed the Hopkins Security in relation to the surrounding universities, like Loyola. At the latter, there is a metal gate surrounding the dorms, and armed security officers patrolling the campus. JHU is open to the public - we had problems of hobos running through the libraries and hiding in the basements of the dorms during the winters. I even interviewed Baltimore Police officers, who stated that the security at Baltimore is more of a liability in terms of safety, and they have no enforcement ability at all.
 
eternalrage said:
OH TOTAL BS. I did a research report for one of my undergrad courses a while back where I analyzed the Hopkins Security in relation to the surrounding universities, like Loyola Community College. At the latter, there is a metal gate surrounding the dorms, and armed security officers patrolling the campus. JHU is open to the public - we had problems of hobos running through the libraries and hiding in the basements of the dorms during the winters. I even interviewed Baltimore Police officers, who stated that the security at Baltimore is more of a liability in terms of safety, and they have no enforcement ability at all.
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Some of your post is simply not true--I live very close to Loyola (which is a private Jesuit college, by the way) and their dorms are not enclosed by a fence (there is a mostly decorative iron fence along Charles St. though). Loyola's campus is not any more patrolled than Hopkins undergrad campus is (I suspect your anecdotes are referring to Homewood?) My job often brings me to college campuses all over Maryland and D.C. and I don't think security at Hopkins undergrad is any better or worse than any others I have seen.

The security situation at Hopkins' medical campus is demonstrably better than it was ten years ago. My mother used to work there, and some of the things that happened in the 80's and early 90's (i.e. people being mugged in parking structures on campus) simply don't happen anymore due to a greater commitment to security (and probably also due to a general drop in crime in Baltimore, like most cities, over the past decade). I am biased, having worked there and had family working there, but I think a fair amount of the negative perception surrounding Hopkins Med is carryover from what the place was like when I was growing up, not based on what it is like today.
 
zeff said:
Some of your post is simply not true--I live very close to Loyola (which is a private Jesuit college, by the way) and their dorms are not enclosed by a fence (there is a mostly decorative iron fence along Charles St. though).
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Better than, well, nothing. Sorry fixed the Loyola thing.

Loyola's campus is not any more patrolled than Hopkins undergrad campus is (I suspect your anecdotes are referring to Homewood?) My job often brings me to college campuses all over Maryland and D.C. and I don't think security at Hopkins undergrad is any better or worse than any others I have seen.
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I'm going by what Baltimore Police and even members of the Hopkins Security have told me. And both say JHU's security blows (yeah anecdotes for Homewood).

The security situation at Hopkins' medical campus is demonstrably better than it was ten years ago. My mother used to work there, and some of the things that happened in the 80's and early 90's (i.e. people being mugged in parking structures on campus) simply don't happen anymore due to a greater commitment to security (and probably also due to a general drop in crime in Baltimore, like most cities, over the past decade). I am biased, having worked there and had family working there, but I think a fair amount of the negative perception surrounding Hopkins Med is carryover from what the place was like when I was growing up, not based on what it is like today.
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Muggings still happen. Parking structures inside the med campus maybe less. But right now they've got shuttles going to farther parking lots and also people are starting to park in the surrounding neighborhoods because the parking fares inside the garage and in the few lots inside the campus are outrageous.

Trust me, this place sucks. If anything, it sucks MUCH more than what Hopkins will lead you to believe.
 
to say that students at one school are more "snotty" than students at another is ridiculous and completely subjective. So that argument shouldn't really be taken into account because whos to say that the students who enter when you do will or will not be "snotty"?

secondly........this whole issue of safety at Hopkins and Penn is completely overblown. The chances of something happening to you at either school is very slim especially if you behave in a safe way and like you have common sense. Why don't people just drop this argument of safety? Its not like by going to Penn or Hopkins you're putting your life at risk so don't overexaggerate. Once again if you're that scared to go to a school in the inner city maybe you need to bypass Penn and Hopkins and look for schools elsewhere.
 
peezyweezy said:
secondly........this whole issue of safety at Hopkins and Penn is completely overblown. The chances of something happening to you at either school is very slim especially if you behave in a safe way and like you have common sense. Why don't people just drop this argument of safety? Its not like by going to Penn or Hopkins you're putting your life at risk so don't overexaggerate. Once again if you're that scared to go to a school in the inner city maybe you need to bypass Penn and Hopkins and look for schools elsewhere.
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I completely agree. Personally, I want to be where the action is (in terms of medical need), and that typically isn't the "safest school" in terms of location, but it's also not very dangerous in the scheme of things. I would much prefer either of these locations to a country-club setting like Stanford, but that's just me (nothing against Stanford, which is a sweet school).
 
eurozo said:
I would much prefer either of these locations to a country-club setting like Stanford, but that's just me (nothing against Stanford, which is a sweet school).
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ever been to east palo alto? third world country-club there.
 
trying said:
ever been to east palo alto? third world country-club there.
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Fair enough. I deserve that for singling out a school. :)

I don't know Palo Alto that well, but I would venture to say it is no Baltimore. I live in East Baltimore now, and while I wouldn't necessarily want to raise my children here, I think it's a good spot for medical school (cheap cost of living, lots of need for medical services, etc.)
 
I'm a fourth-year medical student here at Penn. I'd like to try to clarify a few things and to help Neuronix out by adding another perspective.

Class Rank: officially, Penn does NOT have a class rank. The school does not assign a numerical rank to its students, nor does it disclose a numerical rank to residency programs. Most, if not all, programs around the country do stratify their students into general categories in the Dean's letter, including Penn. The Dean's letter is basically a narrative evaluation of students' performance at medical school and breaks students into categories such as outstanding, excellent, and very good. Also, AOA has to be determined somehow, so there is stratification of students. I think that there is a small amount of stress associated with the H/P/F transition in first year, but all of us looking back realize that these grades basically mean nothing. Most of us do not stress over grades, because we realize that students from Penn do uniformly well in the match. This leads to a pretty low-stress and collaborative environment.

Number of students staying at Penn for residency: Less than a quarter of students in my graduating class matched at Penn for categorical residency, as opposed to the figure of >75% that was quoted on this forum. Keep in mind- Penn is a great institution for many fields and many of the students have chances to go elsewhere but choose to stay at Penn because they like the program, love the city, etc. This should not be a deterrent from choosing a medical school.

Philadelphia: People who think that Philadelphia can be dangerous are right, but the dangerous areas are not where the medical school is located, nor are they where the vast majority of students live. The most dangerous areas in Philly are North Philly some parts of South Philly, and far West Philly (significantly removed from the school). The school is located in a gentrified area of town now named University City, which is very safe. Most students do live in Center City, which is uniformly safe. I have felt very comfortable for the past four years leaving the hospital at all hours, and I can walk around center city by myself any time of the day. Yes, it is true- sometimes people get robbed. I don't know any people who have personally been robbed, nor have I heard of med students being held up. But it is a city, and these things happen in any city.

Penn vs. Hopkins: If you are in this position, you cannot go wrong. Both are great schools. My advice- choose based on where you feel you fit in best, and which city you like better. If you don't have a gut feel, do yourself a favor and visit both again. They're very close to each other and can be seen on a single trip.

I've been extremely happy at Penn in terms of my classmates, the city, and the way that the match ended up. That being said, I think that I was happy because the school was a great fit for me. Try to find a place that feels right, and you'll be happy both in the short term and the long run.
 
Quaker med and Neuronix- could you clarify when grading starts at UPenn- in brochure its states 3rd semester, but someone on this board suggested they began grading in second semester ? if s did this happen just this year, and why ? when is AOA announced (pre or post match?) Thanks !:confused:
 
Iniqitous said:
Quaker med and Neuronix- could you clarify when grading starts at UPenn- in brochure its states 3rd semester, but someone on this board suggested they began grading in second semester ? if s did this happen just this year, and why ? when is AOA announced (pre or post match?) Thanks !:confused:
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First 6 months: P/F
Next 12 months: H/P/F
Next 12 months (clinics): H/HP/P/F
The rest is electives/research.

There is an LP grade also, I believe starting after the first 6 months. It's kind of rare, I don't know if they still give it, and if you do get it, it only goes on your internal transcript (i.e. no other school would ever know about it). AOA is pre-match IIRC, but is mostly based on clinical grades. There is junior AOA (just based on basic science grades) also.
 
Neuronix said:
First 6 months: P/F
Next 12 months: H/P/F
Next 12 months (clinics): H/HP/P/F
The rest is electives/research.

There is an LP grade also, I believe starting after the first 6 months. It's kind of rare, I don't know if they still give it, and if you do get it, it only goes on your internal transcript (i.e. no other school would ever know about it). AOA is pre-match IIRC, but is mostly based on clinical grades. There is junior AOA (just based on basic science grades) also.
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Neuronix- there is actually no longer junior AOA at Penn (this started with the current 4th years). AOA is awarded about a month or so before applications are due for residency.
 
what percentage of students get Honors grades in months 7-18 ?
 
tram said:
Chose Upenn/ Hopkins
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Neither! Unless they're offering you a scholarship turn them both down and go to your state school. You'll be glad when you have half the debt. Trust me.
 
Hallm_7 said:
Neither! Unless they're offering you a scholarship turn them both down and go to your state school. You'll be glad when you have half the debt. Trust me.
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State schools are great, but sometimes they are actually not much cheaper than private schools like Penn or Hopkins. I'd wait until you get your financial aid package before you make this decision.

As for the number of students that get honors in each class, it varies. Penn does not use a curve, so theoretically every person in the class could get honors (they do this to enhance cooperativity between students). I'd say (just a guess) that about 25% of students get honors in each course.
 
Philadelphia Struggles to Quell an Epidemic of Gun Violence (NY Times, 4/14)

Sounds like Penn is in an even more dangerous-crime ridden area than Hopkins...
 
Iniqitous said:
Philadelphia Struggles to Quell an Epidemic of Gun Violence (NY Times, 4/14)

Sounds like Penn is in an even more dangerous-crime ridden area than Hopkins...
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Again... yes, Philadelphia is a dangerous city as a whole. But the areas where medical students live and where the university is are the safest areas of the city. They are also quite extensive (not just one or two safe blocks, but MANY).

I can't comment on Baltimore. But center city/university city phila are very safe.
 
Iniqitous said:
Philadelphia Struggles to Quell an Epidemic of Gun Violence (NY Times, 4/14)

Sounds like Penn is in an even more dangerous-crime ridden area than Hopkins...
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For every one of these articles about one city you can pull similar ones about another city. I just did this in a Penn vs. WashU thread, and I can do it some more here if you'd like.

http://www.geocities.com/grantorino.geo/topten2003.htm

Philadelphia and Baltimore both have crime and as we all know the news media loves to report sensational things like crime. Philadelphia's achillies heel in some ways is that there are pretty much no gun control laws above the state laws, whereas most cities have tighter gun control. Our violent crime then tends to involve guns more and a lot of lawmarkers and activists want more gun control. This leads to many articles being written about the topic.

If you're interested in why this is--in many ways Philadelphia's (and Pittsburgh's) problems are a result of an unsupportive, very conservative state, and the state legislature is often Republican controlled. Those guys don't care one iota about issues in the city and don't want any of their tax money being spent there. This is why SEPTA is chronically underfunded for example. Republicans also tend also to be very 2nd amendment loving.

But back on point, in most crime statistics I see Baltimore faring worse than Philadelphia. Philadelphia tends to come out in the middle of most pooled crime statistics or any of those articles rating the most dangerous cities. I typically don't even see Philadelphia named as one of the worst. i.e. see this list:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/30/national/main2135998.shtml

Baltimore is listed as #12 most dangerous city, Philadelphia did not make the top 25.
 
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