UPenn & Stony Brook For OS

[zyzzbruh]

I am fortunate enough to be accepted into both UPenn and Stony Brooks dental program. I was wondering if anyone had any tips to choosing between the two schools. Assuming I pursue the non-MD route, UPenn will cost me 340k and Stony will cost me 325k.

UPenn:
1-10 ranking
Honors in OS & research
Name recognition
1 hour from home
Debatably “more opportunity”
13/14 matched OS


Stony:
Not ranked
OS selective
Medical curriculum
Small class size
Nonscience P/F
3/3 matched OS

Any input is appreciated.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[wengerout]

Are you OOS for Stony? Surprised the difference is that small but I think for such a small difference money isn’t a real factor. Comes down to personal preference but I would choose Penn.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[zyzzbruh]

Are you OOS for Stony? Surprised the difference is that small but I think for such a small difference money isn’t a real factor. Comes down to personal preference but I would choose Penn.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

yup, OOS for Stony. UPenn gave me a decent sized scholarship.
In your opinion, what gives UPenn the edge?

 

[sgv]

Stony Brook is the better school. You get in state tuition after your first year for all New York state schools including Stony Brook. You also get a medical school education at Stony Brook which will help you on the CBSE. I would choose Stony Brook if it were me and would recommend to anyone else interested in OMFS. I've met people from both schools and Stony Brook has better clinical experience than penn.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Stony Brook is the better school. You get in state tuition after your first year for all New York state schools including Stony Brook. You also get a medical school education at Stony Brook which will help you on the CBSE. I would choose Stony Brook if it were me and would recommend to anyone else interested in OMFS. I've met people from both schools and Stony Brook has better clinical experience than penn.

UPenn seems to advertise themselves as a large name that will get your foot in the door with all of its connections. Do you think there is enough opportunity to make connections with other residency programs at Stony Brook?

 

[sgv]

UPenn seems to advertise themselves as a large name that will get your foot in the door with all of its connections. Do you think there is enough opportunity to make connections with other residency programs at Stony Brook?

You can make connections at Stony Brook based on letter of recommendations and if you're trying to get into your home program. My program interviewed people from both Stony Brook and UPenn and I was impressed with every Stony Brook applicant. Honestly, this has less to do with the school and more on the individual. But I'd rather go to Stony Brook.

 

[wengerout]

yup, OOS for Stony. UPenn gave me a decent sized scholarship.
In your opinion, what gives UPenn the edge?

As the other poster said Stony is a great school. I would push back on the idea that Penn isn't good clinically though, from what i've seen with my friend there so far they are doing the exact same stuff as the state schools (Waxing etc.).

Since the difference is so small I would have picked Penn just because I prefer a larger class/I personally like Penn more than Stony from all that i've seen. If the difference was larger than say 50k though I would just go to Stony.

 

[Medin2017]

OMFS I knew said the people from the ivies had weak hand skills but had a easier time getting in. I wouldn't worry about hand skills. Do medical students need good hand skills before matching neurosurgery, ortho, ENT, plastic surgery, etc? Nope- they need decent research and a nice step 1. The foot in the door matters way more in my opinion than whether or not you can do pretty fillings.

 

[sgv]

As the other poster said Stony is a great school. I would push back on the idea that Penn isn't good clinically though, from what i've seen with my friend there so far they are doing the exact same stuff as the state schools (Waxing etc.).

Since the difference is so small I would have picked Penn just because I prefer a larger class/I personally like Penn more than Stony from all that i've seen. If the difference was larger than say 50k though I would just go to Stony.

No, people at Penn rarely have any clinic days even as a senior and their requirements are much than that of Stony Brook. Stony Brook has one of the highest number clinical requirements that I know of when I was interviewing OMFS applicants and asking people. Penn doesn't have a medical school curriculum, the applicants just have a bunch of free time because they're not in clinic and they have huge blocks of time off. Thats free time to study for the cbse and has nothing g to do with what education Penn is giving you, especially in comparison to Stony Brooks med school. What are you paying for if you spend that much time not in clinic?

Plus Penn's OMFS experience is lacking. There's a weird sign up list to go to the OR because there are so many applying and for whatever reason the attendings don't like it if you spend too much time with them.

 

[wengerout]

No, people at Penn rarely have any clinic days even as a senior and their requirements are much than that of Stony Brook. Stony Brook has one of the highest number clinical requirements that I know of when I was interviewing and asking people. Penn doesn't have a medical school curriculum, the applicants just have a bunch of free time because they're not in clinic and they have huge blocks of time off. Thats free time to study for the cbse and has nothing g to do with what education Penn is giving you, especially in comparison to Stony Brooks med school. What are you paying for if you spend that much time not in clinic?

Plus Penn's OMFS experience is lacking. There's a weird sign up list to go to the OR because there are so many applying and for whatever reason the attendings don't like it if you spend too much time with them.

Both Penn and Columbia have changed up their clinical requirements in the last few years. I’m sure Stony still has the edge but I wouldn’t say the gap is what it once was.

You’re right about Penn not having the medical curriculum, never understood why they were the only Ivy not to do it. As I said before OP can’t go wrong either way. If the cost difference was large I would hands down go to Stony.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[sgv]

Both Penn and Columbia have changed up their clinical requirements in the last few years. I’m sure Stony still has the edge but I wouldn’t say the gap is what it once was.

You’re right about Penn not having the medical curriculum, never understood why they were the only Ivy not to do it. As I said before OP can’t go wrong either way. If the cost difference was large I would hands down go to Stony.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

No this is straight from this years Penn class.

 

[wengerout]

No this is straight from this years Penn class.

If that’s the case I know people at both Stony and Penn in this class and both have (so far) followed nearly the exact trajectory clinically.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[sgv]

If that’s the case I know people at both Stony and Penn in this class and both have (so far) followed nearly the exact trajectory clinically.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

penn students are only in clinic 3x week and only see 2 patients a day

 

[wengerout]

penn students are only in clinic 3x week and only see 2 patients a day

You said this years Penn Class implying the D1 class, neither of which are in clinic yet.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

@sgv is giving a widely inaccurate description. Clinic time has been reduced for everyone because of construction/renovation of the new clinic opening next spring. You still have class/seminars/rotations as a D3 so I don't know why you think we have so much free time.

2) Most of the organ systems are taught by medical school faculty, even though we don't take them along with the medical students, so I'd say we receive a semi-medical education with regard to those systems in particular but not the basic sciences. Also most of the pharmacology we learn is compatible with First Aid.

3) Again, I don't know what sign up sheet there is for the OR. There's a resident on call number that you can text the night before to ask for permission on OR days and they'll tell you what time rounds are. It's a pretty easy process. Also, the school will have one of the only OS honors programs in the country, where you spend extra time in the OS clinic with more responsibilities.

4) I'm not sure what faculty your sources were talking about. The PD and the younger surgeons who were recently hired a couple years ago are very nice and open to mentorship and speaking to dental students about the specialty and research opportunities, etc.

Hope this will help clarify some faulty narrative and hearsay.

 

[sgv]

@sgv is giving a widely inaccurate description. Clinic time has been reduced for everyone because of construction/renovation of the new clinic opening next spring. You still have class/seminars/rotations as a D3 so I don't know why you think we have so much free time.

2) Most of the organ systems are taught by medical school faculty, even though we don't take them along with the medical students, so I'd say we receive a semi-medical education with regard to those systems in particular but not the basic sciences. Also most of the pharmacology we learn is compatible with First Aid.

3) Again, I don't know what sign up sheet there is for the OR. There's a resident on call number that you can text the night before to ask for permission on OR days and they'll tell you what time rounds are. It's a pretty easy process. Also, the school will have one of the only OS honors programs in the country, where you spend extra time in the OS clinic with more responsibilities.

4) I'm not sure what faculty your sources were talking about. The PD and the younger surgeons who were recently hired a couple years ago are very nice and open to mentorship and speaking to dental students about the specialty and research opportunities, etc.

Hope this will help clarify some faulty narrative and hearsay.

Someone drank the UPenn Kool aid. You make it sound as if it's extraordinary that Penn has medical school faculty teach the basic science courses at dental school. Thats common to the majority of dental schools and is nearly always a watered down version given to med students. What's obviously not common is a completely integrated medical school education. OS selectives, honors, or whatever you want to call it is also commonplace and Penn is late in the game if they're just now starting one. I know exactly what exo experience Penn (or any Ivy school) gets and it's not even average.

If you're aware of how much free time you guys have relative to everyone else, ask your friends at other schools how many weeks off they can spend on externship or any time off in general and if they have such a thing as half days.

 

[sgv]

You said this years Penn Class implying the D1 class, neither of which are in clinic yet.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

This entire time it was in reference to this years graduating Penn

 

[sgv]

The best thing a predent interested in OMFS can do for him or herself is to attend a school with integrated medical school (narrows the list to Harvard/Columbia/UConn/Stony) and gain strong clinical exp (OS procedures/exposure), which narrows it to only UConn and Stony. OP is one of the lucky few with this opportunity. Sure other schools like Penn are great too but what schools make the most sense for preparing you for the CBSE and giving you the most amount of clinical OS experience?

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

The best thing a predent interested in OMFS can do for him or herself is to attend a school with integrated medical school (narrows the list to Harvard/Columbia/UConn/Stony) and gain strong clinical exp (OS procedures/exposure), which narrows it to only UConn and Stony. OP is one of the lucky few with this opportunity. Sure other schools like Penn are great too but what schools make the most sense for preparing you for the CBSE and giving you the most amount of clinical OS experience?

What were Stony's match numbers the last few years?

 

[sgv]

What were Stony's match numbers the last few years?

I don't know, how big is Stony Brook's class? How many teeth do Penn students take out? What's Penn's average monthly accrued interest?

 

[AU07DMD]

Plus Penn's OMFS experience is lacking. There's a weird sign up list to go to the OR because there are so many applying and for whatever reason the attendings don't like it if you spend too much time with them.

#fakenews

As a graduate of dental school where you had to pry your way into the OR if you were interested in OS (not to mention little free time to go do so due to requirements), I will say Penn in comparison makes it very easy to allow dental students to shadow/assist in the OR. There is no weird list - students simply call the calls phones the night before our big OR days and ask if they can come shadow.

 

[Likkriue]

My advice is to go to the cheapest school always. Work hard and you can get into any specialty you want.

Why pay more money for the same exact education? Money doesn't grow on trees.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Money doesn't grow on trees.

True. It comes from shrubs - US bills are made from 75% cotton. There’s your fun fact for the day. Happy holidays, y’all!

Big Hoss

 

[BlackThought]

That said, I'm also planning on OMFS. Would Penn be an awesome fit? I didn't get into my state school so there's no point for me going to another public school that charges OOS tuition.

It would be a fit. Not sure anything is an awesome fit.

Sounds like you havn't started dental school yet. You've been posting left and right about OMFS stipends, programs, etc on the forum. It's cool to have the OMFS goal, but you're gonna trip over yourself if you don't focus on nailing down things in the present. To be honest, looking back, most of the people that were harping on about doing OMFS at the start of the dental school are the ones not in residency programs right now. Their mind got clouded by the prospects of residency and they just bombed dental school and the CBSE. Slow things down bud. I don't mean to be patronizing.

Crush dental school classes (D1/2/3)
Crush CBSE (D2/3)
Crush externships (D3/4)
Crush Interviews (D4)
Match

Good luck.

 

[Masterus]

Stony brook's med curriculum has changed a lot. UConn and Harvard are the only programs in the country that does a full biomedical curriculum with the med school and as such they are granted advanced standing into Columbia's OMFS program and 6 extra months of OMFS. No other school gets this.

Med school curriculums are very barebone nowadays. People need to realize that you are not spoonfed the material. Most of the material on the cbse will still be new material that is not covered.

What people don't realize is that when you apply to OMFS, you are compared to your classmates. If you are scoring higher than your peers, then you will get more interviews. Going to Penn does not guarantee you will get into OMFS. You still have to work hard and perform well. There are tons of people that think about OMFS at Penn and don't score competitively at Penn. Only two kids broke 70 on the cbse this year. Also studying for the CBSE is a lot of self studying.

You should also look at where these people are matching into OS.

If Columbia is an option, they are one of the best schools to go to OS for if not the best. 21 kids are applying this year. They will prepare you well, but you will also need to score higher than your peers.

The other way to look at is that at the end of the day, most programs will interview a select few people from the school. If you have 14 Penn people applying to a program, the program most likely won't interview all 14 - they might take the top 3-4. There's more competition. If you go to stony brook, there's less "competition" and you could potentially have a better chance of standing out among your classmates.

In terms strict OMFS clinical experience, Penn has the best OS experience in the country now. They have an honors OMFS program where you go to the oral surgery clinic once a week and you do more complicated cases as a 4th year dental student.

 

[lp3k11]

Objectively (which is hard) I can say Pennsylvania is a better University. You can check the World University Rankings (2019 or any year).
University of Pennsylvania
Stony Brook University, State University of New York

You can also check rankings based on a subject:
Medicine
Dentistry

Subjectively, which it seems what you truly are a little bit curious, it comes to your personal choice. One is private, the other is public. One is in Philadelphia, one is in NY. One costs more than the other. GimmeTheScalpel and Masterus gave you pretty solid advices.

There are no guarantees of studying here and ending there. Just try to do good on the program of your choice, and work hard towards your goal.

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

Stony brook's med curriculum has changed a lot. UConn and Harvard are the only programs in the country that does a full biomedical curriculum with the med school and as such they are granted advanced standing into Columbia's OMFS program and 6 extra months of OMFS. No other school gets this.

Med school curriculums are very barebone nowadays. People need to realize that you are not spoonfed the material. Most of the material on the cbse will still be new material that is not covered.

What people don't realize is that when you apply to OMFS, you are compared to your classmates. If you are scoring higher than your peers, then you will get more interviews. Going to Penn does not guarantee you will get into OMFS. You still have to work hard and perform well. There are tons of people that think about OMFS at Penn and don't score competitively at Penn. Only two kids broke 70 on the cbse this year. Also studying for the CBSE is a lot of self studying.

You should also look at where these people are matching into OS.

If Columbia is an option, they are one of the best schools to go to OS for if not the best. 21 kids are applying this year. They will prepare you well, but you will also need to score higher than your peers.

The other way to look at is that at the end of the day, most programs will interview a select few people from the school. If you have 14 Penn people applying to a program, the program most likely won't interview all 14 - they might take the top 3-4. There's more competition. If you go to stony brook, there's less "competition" and you could potentially have a better chance of standing out among your classmates.

In terms strict OMFS clinical experience, Penn has the best OS experience in the country now. They have an honors OMFS program where you go to the oral surgery clinic once a week and you do more complicated cases as a 4th year dental student.

Do you go to Penn?

 

[Likkriue]

Objectively (which is hard) I can say Pennsylvania is a better University. You can check the World University Rankings (2019 or any year).
University of Pennsylvania
Stony Brook University, State University of New York

You can also check rankings based on a subject:
Medicine
Dentistry

Subjectively, which it seems what you truly are a little bit curious, it comes to your personal choice. One is private, the other is public. One is in Philadelphia, one is in NY. One costs more than the other. GimmeTheScalpel and Masterus gave you pretty solid advices.

There are no guarantees of studying here and ending there. Just try to do good on the program of your choice, and work hard towards your goal.

I don’t disagree that UPenn is a far better university than stony brook as a whole but I disagree with how it correlates at all to matching into OS and dental school.

Stony matched 6/6 last year out of 42. We score pretty darn well on the cbse and most of us attribute it to the medical education stony gives no matter how short it is.

I myself did pretty well taking the exam after just ONE year and I could have done even better with more preparation and understanding. And you can bet the medical education at stony helped.

And in terms of pre doc OS experience, level 1 trauma center with residents creating a nice exec document for us to sign up to assist on OR cases. It’s a win win.

 

[tooth-tastic]

@youngsushi I wouldn't pick a school solely for OS. You probably won't know if OS is your "calling" until after you've started dental school. Furthermore, you can specialize from any dental school. Back in the day, I turned down Penn's Dean's scholarship for a full ride at Howard. Probably saved 200-300K in tuition. Then, scored 80+ on the CBSE. I would say...start dental school first and then go from there

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Good luck at the Citrus Bowl against Kentucky, UPenn! Wait...or is that Penn State? I can’t ever keep those two straight. Which one’s an Ivy League school again?

Big Hoss

 

[3r4324]

In terms strict OMFS clinical experience, Penn has the best OS experience in the country now. They have an honors OMFS program where you go to the oral surgery clinic once a week and you do more complicated cases as a 4th year dental student.

Disregard my last post, I remember talking to you before. But yeah penn predict OS experience isn’t the best in the country. Far from it. The predoc clinic is pretty low volume. Most of the time students are waiting around or taking consults. I’d say Columbia has one of the best by far in terms of volume/caseload.

The south and midwest schools on average are better than those two in terms of volume and ease of getting opportunities.
If you chase experiences and demonstrate good hand skills you can get a decent experience and exposure at most schools.
Or do an externship at an LSU program.

 

[thendo]

I'm a recent Penn grad, and a lot of what @sgv has posted is misinformation.

I'd go visit each school. Programs aside, they're in pretty different settings. Coming from a small town, I was surprised how much I loved Philly.

edit: Just realized you're an hour from Philly haha