UPENN Tuition..ahhhhh!!!

[UCSFx2017]

the tuition at penn is the only reason why I have to decline my acceptance.

It's an awesome school with everything you could possibly want as a dental student but it's too expensive.

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[NDPitch]

It's an awesome school with everything you could possibly want as a dental student but it's too expensive.

Tufts is also too expensive, which is why I'm declining them.

 

[suarez 7]

I'm probably going to decline Penn as well. I keep trying to find reasonable justification for putting myself that much more in debt but I can't.

I can sort of understand why their incoming class overall GPA dropped to 3.61, their sci. GPA dropped to 3.5, and their number of applicants dropped.

That's interesting to hear, do you have any numerical figures to back that up?

 

[thewobblytooth]

i see the purpose if you went to Wharton, but not dental school.

 

[NDPitch]

Wow. That's pretty nuts. It would be even more interesting to see the statistics for the cheaper state schools next to the sky high private ones.

 

[NDPitch]

I already got you covered.

A state dental school.

2006
Avg. GPA - 3.31
Science GPA - 3.30
Non-Science GPA - 3.43
AA - 19
TS - 19
PAT - 18

2007
Avg. GPA - 3.45
Science GPA - 3.41
Non-Science GPA - 3.52
AA - 19
TS - 19
PAT - 19

2008

Avg. GPA - 3.52
Science GPA - 3.49
Non-Science GPA - 3.52
AA - 19
TS - 19
PAT - 20

In two years, the average GPA rose by +0.21 of a point. AA and TS rose by +1 point. PAT rose by +2 points.
This is probably the trend for most other schools as well.

2011

Avg. GPA - 3.63
Science GPA - 3.59
AA - 19
PAT - 19

In five years, the Avg. GPA increased by +0.32 of a point.

Today its average overall and science GPA are 3.6 and their mean AA DAT score is 20 and their mean PAT score is 20.

Haha, nice.

To me, the writing is on the wall. Others may think differently.

 

[jwdent]

Some pretty interesting stuff here. I think this is one of the reasons Dental Schools are not ranked. I think the best dental school is the one that is cheapest for you, assuming you will be taking out a high proportion of loans. For someone in NC the best school may be UNC, while for someone from MD the best school may be Maryland. I also cannot believe that rapid increase in tuition at UPenn. Almost 11,000 in 2 years! Unbelievable. I hope more student who will have to take out loans are becoming aware of these amazing costs.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Haha, nice.

To me, the writing is on the wall. Others may think differently.

I'm telling you all the smart (both academically and financially) kids are going to the cheaper state school. Sooner than later, these affordable state schools are going to be the most difficult schools to get into.

 

[xbite]

I'm telling you all the smart (both academically and financially) kids are going to the cheaper state school. Sooner than later, these affordable state schools are going to be the most difficult schools to get into.

I'll respectfully disagree with that. I think there is a reason why match rates, past board scores, pass rates, licensing exam scores, etc., have historically and consistently been stronger at certain schools.

For me, education has always been a top priority in life. I'll gladly cheap out on getting a nicer car and bigger house for a few years more than other graduates; however, I won't compromise my education and my future just to save money. Every dentist, for the most part, makes it out of debt and lives a really financially comfortable life - enough to retire early. I came to dental school fully understanding the debt I would be undertaking. But I couldn't mentally prepare myself to go to a cheaper school, with the notion that I would probably regret passing up, what I believe to be, a better opportunity. I didn't want to think each time, "I should have gone to Penn instead". I've never met a Penn dentist - or any dentist, for that matter-- struggling to pay off their loans. But who knows, maybe they hide them from us.

 

[UCSFx2017]

I'll respectfully disagree with that.
For me, education has always been a top priority in life. I'll gladly cheap out on getting a nicer car and bigger house for a few years more than other graduates; however, I won't compromise my education and my future just to save money. Every dentist, for the most part, makes it out of debt and lives a really financially comfortable life - enough to retire early. I came to dental school fully understanding the debt I would be undertaking. But I couldn't mentally prepare myself to go to a cheaper school, with the notion that I would probably regret passing up this opportunity, and wonder each time "I should have gone to Penn instead". I've never met a Penn dentist - or any dentist, for that matter-- struggling to pay off their loans. But who knows, maybe they hide them from us.

Some people cannot significantly differentiate the quality of education between a state school and an Ivy League institution. If you can then more power to you. At least you will be able to justify the decision. If this were any other object that we were buying with loans at high interest rates, we would be careful to justify that the object were worth every additional penny on top of the sticker price.

What exactly are you buying from Penn that you couldn't have from another school?

I am a fellow Ubermensch and I do not value material possessions as highly as most other people either but prolonging the human condition of being in debt to another person is not ideal no matter what value system a person may have (except Christians ). .

 

[UCSFx2017]

The long-term difference in costs between Penn and a state school could be $330,423. Whatever advantage that Penn has to offer better be worth more than this difference. Don't just look at this in terms of dollars but look at it in terms of labor hours. Then look at those hours spent paying off Federal loans as a percentage of your lifetime.

 

[Silent Cool]

I'll respectfully disagree with that. I think there is a reason why match rates, past board scores, pass rates, licensing exam scores, etc., have historically and consistently been stronger at certain schools.

For me, education has always been a top priority in life. I'll gladly cheap out on getting a nicer car and bigger house for a few years more than other graduates; however, I won't compromise my education and my future just to save money. Every dentist, for the most part, makes it out of debt and lives a really financially comfortable life - enough to retire early. I came to dental school fully understanding the debt I would be undertaking. But I couldn't mentally prepare myself to go to a cheaper school, with the notion that I would probably regret passing up, what I believe to be, a better opportunity. I didn't want to think each time, "I should have gone to Penn instead". I've never met a Penn dentist - or any dentist, for that matter-- struggling to pay off their loans. But who knows, maybe they hide them from us.

That's because most dentists that you know probably went to school at a time when school was affordable and specialty programs didn't charge tuition. Needless to say, times have changed. On a brighter note, however, I will say that UPENN matched 16/16 into ortho this past year. So major kudos to that.

 

[UCSFx2017]

That's because most dentists that you know probably went to school at a time when school was affordable and specialty programs didn't charge tuition. Needless to say, times have changed. On a brighter note, however, I will say that UPENN matched 16/16 into ortho this past year. So major kudos to that.

UPenn is a great school. But with its continuous tuition hikes, it might not be worth it anymore for some people. My oral surgeon went there when the tuition was $43,000.

 

[Silent Cool]

Tufts is also too expensive, which is why I'm declining them.

Yeah Tufts is crazy. Even their oral surgery program charges tuition!!

 

[xbite]

Some people cannot significantly differentiate the quality of education between a state school and an Ivy League institution. If you can then more power to you. At least you will be able to justify the decision. If this were any other object that we were buying with loans at high interest rates, we would be careful to justify that the object were worth every additional penny on top of the sticker price.

What exactly are you buying from Penn that you couldn't have from another school?

I am a fellow Ubermensch I do not value material possessions as highly as most other people either but the human condition of being perpetually in debt to another person is not ideal not matter what value system a person may have (except Christians ). .

I can't significantly differentiate the quality of education between state and Ivy League, either. I'm sure people are more than happy at both types of institutions. I can pick apart things I dislike about every professor - during undergrad (non-Ivy) and here -- but, on the whole, I admire and appreciate the fact that I'm learning from leaders in the field. Are all Penn professors great? Absolutely not, but many of them are. Mentally, it helps me sleep at night knowing that my 400K is going towards learning from world-renowned professionals. I, personally, would be more more upset if I was paying 200K and only being partially satisfied. Not everyone shares the same mentality, and I can respect that.

Every school I interviewed at had its pros and cons. I chose Penn because the majority of pros were specific to Penn (and to a few other schools), but the cons were common to all. Ideally, I wanted a school: in a big city, a high specialization rate in various specialties, multiple dual-degree options if I wanted to go down additional avenues (with strong partner schools), high pass rates/board scores/licensing scores, affordable living, high-impact research opportunities, a solid didactic curriculum, strong/early clinical exposure (not just restorations/crown and bridge, but good exposure to all specialties of dentistry), international externships, very diverse patient population, good student life and campus environment, part of main campus with other graduate schools, nice facilities (not just pre-clinical labs, which Penn does not have!), a well-rounded/accomplished class that would inspire me, etc. This list goes on and does include cost; however, I'm grateful that finances didn't prevent me from giving up many of those factors. My other choices had some - rarely all - of those things, but not to the extent that Penn provided. Other people's lists are different and every one has different priorities on where they are willing to compromise. Cost, shiny pre-clinical labs, state-of-the-art equipment, libraries/lecture rooms with windows, year-round sunny weather, being close to home, etc., are all things that mattered less to me.

Finally - believe me, the fear of debt is very really for me, too. But I think "perpetual debt" is hyperbolic. It's more like a few years difference.

 

[UCSFx2017]

match rates, past board scores, pass rates, licensing exam scores, etc., have historically and consistently been stronger at certain schools.

Most of your clinical training that will largely improve your efficiency come after graduation. Board history is a moot point now that boards are P/F. All of these points relate more to the student than the institution (variance in curriculum, clinical hours, staff, etc.) .

 

[xbite]

Most of your clinical training that will largely improve your efficiency come after graduation. Board history is a moot point now that boards are P/F. All of these points relate more to the student than the institution (variance in curriculum, clinical hours, staff, etc.) .

I don't think board score history is a moot point. A school that has had a strong history of high board scores means that they've provided a solid foundation for those subjects. Sure they've lowered the standard for passing, but I don't want to lower my standard for preparation. Whatever I don't learn in school is information I won't know for my patients.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree with your last point: I think institution plays a large role in all those factors that I mentioned. I can put forth my best effort anywhere, but I personally don't think every school/faculty has the same ability to get me to the same place in my education and career.

 

[UCSFx2017]

I can't significantly differentiate the quality of education between state and Ivy League, either. I'm sure people are more than happy at both types of institutions. I can pick apart things I dislike about every professor - during undergrad (non-Ivy) and here -- but, on the whole, I admire and appreciate the fact that I'm learning from leaders in the field. Are all Penn professors great? Absolutely not, but many of them are. Mentally, it helps me sleep at night knowing that my 400K is going towards learning from world-renowned professionals. I, personally, would be more more upset if I was paying 200K and only being partially satisfied. Not everyone shares the same mentality, and I can respect that.

Every school I interviewed at had its pros and cons. I chose Penn because the majority of pros were specific to Penn (and to a few other schools), but the cons were common to all. Ideally, I wanted a school: in a big city, a high specialization rate in various specialties, multiple dual-degree options if I wanted to go down additional avenues (with strong partner schools), high pass rates/board scores/licensing scores, affordable living, high-impact research opportunities, a solid didactic curriculum, strong/early clinical exposure (not just restorations/crown and bridge, but good exposure to all specialties of dentistry), international externships, very diverse patient population, good student life and campus environment, part of main campus with other graduate schools, nice facilities (not just pre-clinical labs, which Penn does not have!), a well-rounded/accomplished class that would inspire me, etc. This list goes on and does include cost; however, I'm grateful that finances didn't prevent me from giving up many of those factors. My other choices had some - rarely all - of those things, but not to the extent that Penn provided. Other people's lists are different and every one has different priorities on where they are willing to compromise. Cost, shiny pre-clinical labs, state-of-the-art equipment, libraries/lecture rooms with windows, year-round sunny weather, being close to home, etc., are all things that mattered less to me.

Finally - believe me, the fear of debt is very really for me, too. But I think "perpetual debt" is hyperbolic. It's more like a few years difference.

I'm sure in your situation, given your possible school options at the time, that you made the best decision possible. I was also rash in exaggerating the "perpetual" debt situation but I was quick to edit that part. But you do understand someone with $150,000 in loans would be able to comfortably pay off the loans within five years. But someone with $400,000 in debt is probably not going to be making enough at the end of the month to pay off a >$6,000 monthly loan repayment plus living expenses in order to pay off the debt within ten years. Even if you could you would be living in relative hardship for ten years of your life.

I absolutely agree with your main points. In fact, those were the reasons why I applied to Penn. But if you divvy up the long-term $330,423 for someone choosing UPenn over a $150,000 state school, each aspect must be worth over $41,302.
1. Big City - Many dental schools offer this.
2. Specialization rate - It's been argued relentlessly on SDN that it is on the student that determines whether they specialize or not
3. Dual-degree - Most people do not need or want a Juris Doctorate or an MBA.
4. Boards - P/F, irrelevant at this point
5. Research - Research can be found at any institution.
http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/GrantsAndF...talSchools/GrantstoDentalInstitutions2011.htm
6. Curriculum - Staggered exam is great but I don't know if it's worth the >$41,302
7. Clinicals - A lot of state schools are transitioning to provide clinical training from day 1. VCU for example along with DentSim technology.
8. Study body - You definitely find a different student body at Penn. From my experience, you are competing against the exam and not other students. I do agree that accomplished students absolutely inspire me extracurricularly (research, altruism, & leadership).

In all these points, Penn may offer better quality but I only expect it to be slight in comparison to state schools. This is an obvious point but I think it's worth mentioning that state schools are not barren of these positives.

 

[UCSFx2017]

LOL I think it's pointless in explaining our individual values. As long as it is worth it for you, Penn was a great choice. I guess it's just not for me but I was hoping someone would persuade me otherwise considering how Penn was high on my list of top schools. It was wishful thinking on my part.

 

[xbite]

I'm sure in your situation, given your possible school options at the time, that you made the best decision possible. I was also rash in exaggerating the "perpetual" debt situation but I was quick to edit that part. But you do understand someone with $150,000 in loans would be able to comfortably pay off the loans within five years. But someone with $400,000 in debt is probably not going to be making enough at the end of the month to pay off a >$6,000 monthly loan repayment plus living expenses in order to pay off the debt within ten years. Even if you could you would be living in relative hardship for ten years of your life.

I absolutely agree with your main points. In fact, those were the reasons why I applied to Penn. But if you divvy up the long-term $330,423 for someone choosing UPenn over a $150,000 state school, each aspect must be worth over $41,302.
1. Big City - Many dental schools offer this.
2. Specialization rate - It's been argued relentlessly on SDN that it is on the student that determines whether they specialize or not
3. Dual-degree - Most people do not need or want a Juris Doctorate or an MBA.
4. Boards - P/F, irrelevant at this point
5. Research - Research can be found at any institution but UPenn certainly performs more higher impact research than most other schools
6. Curriculum - Staggered exam is great but I don't know if it's worth the >$41,302
7. Clinicals - A lot of state schools are transitioning to provide clinical training from day 1. VCU for example along with DentSim technology.
8. Study body - You definitely find a different student body a Penn.

I understand the point you're trying to make. If I wanted a cheap career option, I would have run as far away from dentistry as possible and just gone to med school. But I wanted to do dentistry and I wanted all of those things I mentioned. For me, each point is not worth that much, but the package deal is definitely worth the extra money. I don't think EVERYONE should give up a state school tuition, because, again, cost is higher up on some people's priorities.

As for the breakdown - I'll clarify my rationale:
1. Big City - Many dental schools offer this.
Major city (i.e. Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Chicago) but in low-income neighborhoods that provide very diverse patient populations. Many of my options didn't fit that criteria.
2. Specialization rate - It's been argued relentlessly on SDN that it is on the student that determines whether they specialize or not
I will respectfully disagree with that. Do I think going to Penn guarantees my ability to specialize? Not at all. How big of a role it plays is certainly up for debate. I've talked to many, many residents, some attendings and faculty, administration, and all have told me otherwise. The "name" doesn't matter; but the curricula/past experiences with residents from certain schools/etc. do matter and they make a difference.
3. Dual-degree - Most people do not need or want a Juris Doctorate or an MBA.
Sure, to each their own. I still wanted the option to pursue an MBA at Wharton, or a JD from Penn Law, or a bioengineering degree, etc. It's better to have the option available
4. Boards - P/F, irrelevant at this point
Performance history is very much a dictator for me. I'm not lowering my patient care standards just because it's pass fail. Schools with lower pass rates might not be teaching well enough, or preparing their students well enough, etc. I don't think it's entirely on the student. Regardless, I don't want to be at a school where failing is higher than at other schools...for whatever other factors may be at play
5. Research - Research can be found at any institution but UPenn certainly performs more higher impact research than most other schools
6. Curriculum - Staggered exam is great but I don't know if it's worth the >$41,302
I would be miserable and doing very poorly if I had 10 exams in one week. I'm very grateful for our set up. However, I was referring to the depth of didactic education, teaching philosophy, clinical approach, etc.
7. Clinicals - A lot of state schools are transitioning to provide clinical training from day 1. VCU for example along with DentSim technology.
I wasn't talking about DentSim. A lot of schools start with that or Simodonts- Penn,too. They're great, but they weren't a deciding factor. I was referring to dental auxiliary utilization. We are in the clinic as assistants starting in our first year, and become expanded function dental assistants in our second - doing restorations on patients, taking xrays, sealants, etc. It's important to me to have that clinical aspect integrated throughout my four years, so that 4-handed dentistry becomes second nature. I want to fully understand what it's like for my future dental assistants, so I can be a better dentist.
8. Study body - You definitely find a different student body a Penn.

I think we can both agree that everyone wants a different experience in dental school. No shame in people wanting to pay more or less for their individualized education. Best of luck to you wherever you go.

 

[UCSFx2017]

I understand the point you're trying to make. If I wanted a cheap career option, I would have run as far away from dentistry as possible and just gone to med school. But I wanted to do dentistry and I wanted all of those things I mentioned. For me, each point is not worth that much, but the package deal is definitely worth the extra money. I don't think EVERYONE should give up a state school tuition, because, again, cost is higher up on some people's priorities.

As for the breakdown - I'll clarify my rationale:
1. Big City - Many dental schools offer this.
Major city (i.e. Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Chicago) but in low-income neighborhoods that provide very diverse patient populations. Many of my options didn't fit that criteria.
2. Specialization rate - It's been argued relentlessly on SDN that it is on the student that determines whether they specialize or not
I will respectfully disagree with that. Do I think going to Penn guarantees my ability to specialize? Not at all. How big of a role it plays is certainly up for debate. I've talked to many, many residents, some attendings and faculty, administration, and all have told me otherwise. The "name" doesn't matter; but the curricula/past experiences with residents from certain schools/etc. do matter and they make a difference.
3. Dual-degree - Most people do not need or want a Juris Doctorate or an MBA.
Sure, to each their own. I still wanted the option to pursue an MBA at Wharton, or a JD from Penn Law, or a bioengineering degree, etc. It's better to have the option available
4. Boards - P/F, irrelevant at this point
Performance history is very much a dictator for me. I'm not lowering my patient care standards just because it's pass fail. Schools with lower pass rates might not be teaching well enough, or preparing their students well enough, etc. I don't think it's entirely on the student. Regardless, I don't want to be at a school where failing is higher than at other schools...for whatever other factors may be at play
5. Research - Research can be found at any institution but UPenn certainly performs more higher impact research than most other schools
6. Curriculum - Staggered exam is great but I don't know if it's worth the >$41,302
I would be miserable and doing very poorly if I had 10 exams in one week. I'm very grateful for our set up. However, I was referring to the depth of didactic education, teaching philosophy, clinical approach, etc.
7. Clinicals - A lot of state schools are transitioning to provide clinical training from day 1. VCU for example along with DentSim technology.
I wasn't talking about DentSim. A lot of schools start with that or Simodonts- Penn,too. They're great, but they weren't a deciding factor. I was referring to dental auxiliary utilization. We are in the clinic as assistants starting in our first year, and become expanded function dental assistants in our second - doing restorations on patients, taking xrays, sealants, etc. It's important to me to have that clinical aspect integrated throughout my four years, so that 4-handed dentistry becomes second nature. I want to fully understand what it's like for my future dental assistants, so I can be a better dentist.
8. Study body - You definitely find a different student body a Penn.

I think we can both agree that everyone wants a different experience in dental school. No shame in people wanting to pay more or less for their individualized education. Best of luck to you wherever you go.

I wouldn't say that any dental school is cheap. They all take you to the same destination. That is to become a dentist. Cheap is relative. UCSF looked very expensive when comparing it to my state school. But when UPenn is considered, UCSF is in fact "cheap". How do you know if you're paying more than what is owed or is necessary? A school could have the most prestigious name in the world, offer as many ancillary opportunities as possible, and cost a fortune but would it be worth it to earn the same DMD/DDS (with the same salary cap) as everyone else? Where can you draw that line between overpriced & extraneous and very worthwhile. Did UPenn cross it? If not, when will it cross it because they keep jacking up tuition? Again this is where we would obviously disagree.

However competent (textbook knowledge and a mind for science) that a prospective dentist should be is dependent on the student more than anyone else. We're never spoon fed any material in undergrad and I'm sure it's the same in dental school. Ivy Leagues and state schools use the same textbooks and the same board preparatory textbooks and it is just a matter of the student's time and effort. Ivy Leagues do however offer more summer time off for students to prepare for the boards. I think that's something to consider. I really don't think clinical training from any dental school will ever fully prepare any graduate for private practice. Eventually everyone from whatever dental school can reach roughly the same degree of competence.

I do believe that going to a particular school that has a history of sending its graduates to particular residency programs is beneficial for landing a spot at that specific program. Many state schools have a similar history, probably not as broad, but they have the same track record. Point is, that if you go to a state school, you can still use that relationship to ultimately become a specialist but you might be slightly limited as to where you become a specialist. Quite honestly I wouldn't want to be at a hoighty-toighty program that prefers one applicant over another just because that applicant attended UPenn. It's been published that school name ranks low among programs' decisions in accepting a residency applicant.

I think this school choice comes down to prestige more than anything else. If UPenn had another name, I don't think the student body would be nearly the same.

I really appreciate your contribution to this discussion.

 

[xbite]

I wouldn't say that any dental school is cheap. They all take you to the same destination. That is to become a dentist. Cheap is relative. UCSF looked very expensive when comparing it to my state school. But when UPenn is considered, UCSF is in fact "cheap". How do you know if you're paying more than what is owed or is necessary? A school could have the most prestigious name in the world, offer as many ancillary opportunities as possible, and cost a fortune but would it be worth it to earn the same DMD/DDS (with the same salary cap) as everyone else? Where can you draw that line between overpriced & extraneous and very worthwhile. Did UPenn cross it? If not, when will it cross it because they keep jacking up tuition? Again this is where we would obviously disagree.

However competent (textbook knowledge and a mind for science) that a prospective dentist should be is dependent on the student more than anyone else. We're never spoon fed any material in undergrad and I'm sure it's the same in dental school. Ivy Leagues and state schools use the same textbooks and the same board preparatory textbooks and it is just a matter of the student's time and effort. Ivy Leagues do however offer more summer time off for students to prepare for the boards. I think that's something to consider. I really don't think clinical training from any dental school will ever fully prepare any graduate for private practice. Eventually everyone from whatever dental school can reach roughly the same degree of competence.

I do believe that going to a particular school that has a history of sending its graduates to particular residency programs is beneficial for landing a spot at that specific program. Many state schools have a similar history, probably not as broad, but they have the same track record. Point is, that if you go to a state school, you can still use that relationship to ultimately become a specialist but you might be slightly limited as to where you become a specialist. Quite honestly I wouldn't want to be at a hoighty-toighty program that prefers one applicant over another just because that applicant attended UPenn. It's been published that school name ranks low among programs' decisions in accepting a residency applicant.

I think this school choice comes down to prestige more than anything else. If UPenn had another name, I don't think the student body would be nearly the same.

I really appreciate your contribution to this discussion.

I think all American schools are insanely and unnecessarily overpriced. But that seems to be the trend with a lot of things in the US - like surgeries costing in the hundred thousands. But I digress - back to education. There is no way high schools should cost $40,000/year, or undergraduate degrees to cost $60,000/year, but people pay attend because they're worth it to them.The fact that people pay $200K for some schools is more mind boggling to me than people paying $400K at Penn.

I think you misunderstood my last post. I do not think the "Penn Name" matters; residencies don't choose based on the name - they evaluate scores based on the program's reputation, rigor of curriculum, performance/knowledge of past residents, etc. I'm not paying for the name - I'm paying for a combination of all those things that I mentioned before, that I couldn't find at other schools.

I agree that many applicants are blindly attracted to the names of certain schools - why pay for a Lamborghini, when a Dodge will also get you from point A to point B? Some people believe the design, craftmanship, and performance is better and are willing to pay the insane prices (even though some people swear by the quality of Dodge). Who cares what they think and where their money goes? Just drive the truck, and let bygones be bygones. After all, it's not your wallet that's funding their education.

 

[asdfray]

I'll respectfully disagree with that. I think there is a reason why match rates, past board scores, pass rates, licensing exam scores, etc., have historically and consistently been stronger at certain schools.

For me, education has always been a top priority in life. I'll gladly cheap out on getting a nicer car and bigger house for a few years more than other graduates; however, I won't compromise my education and my future just to save money. Every dentist, for the most part, makes it out of debt and lives a really financially comfortable life - enough to retire early. I came to dental school fully understanding the debt I would be undertaking. But I couldn't mentally prepare myself to go to a cheaper school, with the notion that I would probably regret passing up, what I believe to be, a better opportunity. I didn't want to think each time, "I should have gone to Penn instead". I've never met a Penn dentist - or any dentist, for that matter-- struggling to pay off their loans. But who knows, maybe they hide them from us.

I think it's pointless to argue. Everyone has their own prospective on what makes one dental school better than another. For me, I agree with xbite and am choosing Penn over my state school b/c of the opportunities it allows. Other people might think that's not a smart choice (but to me, it is). As long as you can convince yourself that you're making the right choice, it doesn't matter what others say. I'm not going to let the forum and other people's opinion decide the next four years of my life (everyone takes everything said on sdn too seriously!). If you let other people's opinion outshine your own, you might end up regretting it. Go with you gut feeling and don't look back.


But damn, the tuition at Penn is starting to get ridiculous

 

[UCSFx2017]

I think it's pointless to argue. Everyone has their own prospective on what makes one dental school better than another. For me, I agree with xbite and am choosing Penn over my state school b/c of the opportunities it allows. Other people might think that's not a smart choice (but to me, it is). As long as you can convince yourself that you're making the right choice, it doesn't matter what others say. I'm not going to let the forum and other people's opinion decide the next four years of my life (everyone takes everything said on sdn too seriously!). If you let other people's opinion outshine your own, you might end up regretting it. Go with you gut feeling and don't look back.


But damn, the tuition at Penn is starting to get ridiculous

True and congrats!

I think all American schools are insanely and unnecessarily overpriced. But that seems to be the trend with a lot of things in the US - like surgeries costing in the hundred thousands. But I digress - back to education. There is no way high schools should cost $40,000/year, or undergraduate degrees to cost $60,000/year, but people pay attend because they're worth it to them.The fact that people pay $200K for some schools is more mind boggling to me than people paying $400K at Penn.

I think you misunderstood my last post. I do not think the "Penn Name" matters; residencies don't choose based on the name - they evaluate scores based on the program's reputation, rigor of curriculum, performance/knowledge of past residents, etc. I'm not paying for the name - I'm paying for a combination of all those things that I mentioned before, that I couldn't find at other schools.

I agree that many applicants are blindly attracted to the names of certain schools - why pay for a Lamborghini, when a Dodge will also get you from point A to point B? Some people believe the design, craftmanship, and performance is better and are willing to pay the insane prices (even though some people swear by the quality of Dodge). Who cares what they think and where their money goes? Just drive the truck, and let bygones be bygones. After all, it's not your wallet that's funding their education.

I don't like the Lamborghini and $50,000 high school analogy because people who buy those things are those with incredibly large disposable incomes. People who do not have access to capital or people who would have to take out high interest loans to buy those things would never consider doing so if it meant living under subpar conditions for over ten years (usually 30 years for private dental schools unless they refinance). For some people it is worth it but for my situation where my family is not considered well-off, I think I have to consider price over somewhat unnecessary positives.

To each his own!

Also here's why surgery is so expensive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-My0n-CeEk[/youtube]

 

[dantemac]

In addition to insane tuition, Penn leaves so many other things to be paid for:

+Fraternity Costs (covered by some dental schools)
+ASDA membership (covered by almost all dental schools)
+Printing other places on campus, the gym, parking, etc...none of this is included (Free lots of places...)
+Instrument insurance
+Public transportation (Some universities hook you up with transit passes)
+Odds and ends supplies (blood pressure, stethoscope)
+Scrubs

Even on a full scholarship I am surprised by how much is put on the students.

I come from a state school and the tuition was lower and almost everything listed above is included. One thing to consider.

 

[Silent Cool]

In addition to insane tuition, Penn leaves so many other things to be paid for:

+Fraternity Costs (covered by some dental schools)
+ASDA membership (covered by almost all dental schools)
+Printing other places on campus, the gym, parking, etc...none of this is included (Free lots of places...)
+Instrument insurance
+Public transportation (Some universities hook you up with transit passes)
+Odds and ends supplies (blood pressure, stethoscope)
+Scrubs

Even on a full scholarship I am surprised by how much is put on the students.

I come from a state school and the tuition was lower and almost everything listed above is included. One thing to consider.

Yeah, the only reason to go to a school like PENN or Harvard is if you definitely want to specialize. I think the elite schools give you some advantage in that regard. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason.

 

[wb1]

I hope the tuition bubble POP before we start paying 2014 tuitions. It's almost like banking on the idea of feel good sentimental idea of being a physician or dentist and squeeze every penny out of us.
This reminds me of the housing market....the idea of owning your house with yard and fences...we will pay it off someday.

NO, the cost of tuition wouldn't stop most students and the cost of applications (2* included) won't even flinch us from applying to 10-15 schools in average. I forgot to mention the cost of DAT registration too.

My perdition for 2015 cycle is that the application fee for additional school will go up to $100.

 

[onecookiemonsta]

Wow this tuition is scary I was thinking of applying to UPENN but I don't think I can anymore.

Reality hits. That's too expensive.

Will banks give this much in loans???

 

[Silent Cool]

Wow this tuition is scary I was thinking of applying to UPENN but I don't think I can anymore.

Reality hits. That's too expensive.

Will banks give this much in loans???

The loans aren't administered by the banks. They are given by the federal gov't. And yes, they will give you whatever you want.

 

[dantemac]

I believe penn is a great school, but I also believe there is no need to drink the ivy league kool aid if you don't need to.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Penn's an awesome school but sooner or later Penn's rising tuition hits a breaking point where the extra costs and perks are not worth declining a state school for most people. I would have loved to have taken advantage of every added bonus that Penn has to offer but I think I'm better off making due with my state school and be granted more financially flexibility in case I choose a less lucrative career (academia/research). Again, Penn is a great school.

 

[thepod17]

ahh yes. the old poor dentist routine.
here's a tip...if you are doing it just* for the money you are doing it for the wrong reason.

 

[sbh]

I've been reading a lot of past Penn threads and I find this one particularly insightful, especially the comments made by USCFx2017 and xbite. Just wanted to say thanks. It's been very helpful in my reaching a final decision on where to attend.

 

[Ionz]

I just don't understand why Penn's tuition is so high and excludes so many basic ancillary fees that are included by default at schools with much lower CoA...
There has to be a logical reason behind this, no? I mean Penn is as expensive as NYU now (if not more) isn't it? Glad I withdrew but I still want to know...The preclinical lab was by far the shabbiest I've seen in my interview trail so clearly it's not a top notch facility type of deal lol

 

[jokersmiles]

Some pretty interesting stuff here. I think this is one of the reasons Dental Schools are not ranked. I think the best dental school is the one that is cheapest for you, assuming you will be taking out a high proportion of loans. For someone in NC the best school may be UNC, while for someone from MD the best school may be Maryland. I also cannot believe that rapid increase in tuition at UPenn. Almost 11,000 in 2 years! Unbelievable. I hope more student who will have to take out loans are becoming aware of these amazing costs.

This is exactly why I'm afraid of attending schools like USC, UPenn, Tufts, NYU etc......

very informative thread.

 

[sochers]

This is exactly why I'm afraid of attending schools like USC, UPenn, Tufts, NYU etc......

very informative thread.

This is timeless advice. Keep in mind, the majority of the responses here are from 2009 when tuition was even lower - things have only become more expensive from here