UPitt vs. Mt. Sinai

[losangeless]

hi everybody, i'm a longtime lurker but i was hoping to get everybody's insight. i'm deciding between these two schools and not sure where I want to go. i'm interested in research and i know both will serve me well on that front, but i also want a really good clinical training program wherever i go, and again both are great clinical institutions.

Sinai
Pros:
location (i really like NYC and the location on the UES, i have family near NYC and friends there also)
P/F
hospital which serves patients from UES and Harlem
flexible testing
my favorite student body of the ones I've seen
GREAT housing, really liked the apartments at Sinai

Cons: i feel like NYC has the chance to overwhelm me. I'm from a suburb near Los Angeles and it's completely different from NYC, i've never lived in a huge city like that before
no undergraduate campus
high cost of living


Pittsburgh
Pros:
UPMC is an amazing medical center;
i actually really liked Pittsburgh as a city (which surprised me), it really has a lot of things I could ask for from a city
state of the art clinical training simulation center
amazing research
loved the huge campus
housing is really good at Pittsburgh with a lot of options
cost of living is pretty cheap at Pitt
I'd get to bring my car (i know you don't need a car in NYC, but for some reason having my car near me would be nice)

Cons:
H/P/F - this is kind of a big one, so any insight on how competition is at Pitt would really be helpful
weather- neither city has great weather compared to LA, but Pittsburgh is significantly worse
didn't like the students i met as much as the ones at Sinai. my student interviewer was kind of awkward and not very friendly. all the sinai students i met seemed like people i could be friends with

at this point of i'm kind of leaning towards sinai but i'd like to hear what everybody thinks

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[JokerMD]

obviously NYC is a MUCH better location than pitt (even though pittsburgh isn't as bad as I thought it would be)

i haven't been to sinai, but pitt has an absolutely amazing school but i don't think there is much of difference in "prestige" between the two.

that said, it seems your gut feeling tells you to go with sinai, so id go there

 

[bobsmith]

I'd say if you're leaning towards Sinai, go for it

And when I interviewed at Pitt, the things you listed here:

Cons:
H/P/F - this is kind of a big one, so any insight on how competition is at Pitt would really be helpful
weather- neither city has great weather compared to LA, but Pittsburgh is significantly worse
didn't like the students i met as much as the ones at Sinai. my student interviewer was kind of awkward and not very friendly. all the sinai students i met seemed like people i could be friends with

at this point of i'm kind of leaning towards sinai but i'd like to hear what everybody thinks

were readily apparent to me too. Also pretty much whenever I asked someone why they chose Pitt, the only answer I really got was "well, with aid, it was slightly cheaper than my state school and it was ranked higher"

 

[jbz24]

hi everybody, i'm a longtime lurker but i was hoping to get everybody's insight. i'm deciding between these two schools and not sure where I want to go. i'm interested in research and i know both will serve me well on that front, but i also want a really good clinical training program wherever i go, and again both are great clinical institutions.

Sinai
Pros:
location (i really like NYC and the location on the UES, i have family near NYC and friends there also)
P/F
hospital which serves patients from UES and Harlem
flexible testing
my favorite student body of the ones I've seen
GREAT housing, really liked the apartments at Sinai

Cons: i feel like NYC has the chance to overwhelm me. I'm from a suburb near Los Angeles and it's completely different from NYC, i've never lived in a huge city like that before
no undergraduate campus
high cost of living


Pittsburgh
Pros:
UPMC is an amazing medical center;
i actually really liked Pittsburgh as a city (which surprised me), it really has a lot of things I could ask for from a city
state of the art clinical training simulation center
amazing research
loved the huge campus
housing is really good at Pittsburgh with a lot of options
cost of living is pretty cheap at Pitt
I'd get to bring my car (i know you don't need a car in NYC, but for some reason having my car near me would be nice)

Cons:
H/P/F - this is kind of a big one, so any insight on how competition is at Pitt would really be helpful
weather- neither city has great weather compared to LA, but Pittsburgh is significantly worse
didn't like the students i met as much as the ones at Sinai. my student interviewer was kind of awkward and not very friendly. all the sinai students i met seemed like people i could be friends with

at this point of i'm kind of leaning towards sinai but i'd like to hear what everybody thinks

Sinai all the way.

I'm not sure what Pitt's clinical simulator is like but Sinai probably has the same thing (or similar). Sinai's research is amazing too.

For a top 15 school, Pitt's match list is kind of lackluster. They do well in the midwest but not as well on the coasts. It's definitely cheaper there and you'll get better housing, but for a large city school, Sinai's housing is pretty good and cheap too.

 

[adele87]

I'm making the same choice. For me, Sinai is going to be wayyyyy more expensive, but I think it is worth it. It's hard to explain, but I have a much, much warmer feeling about this school. I didn't feel like I'd fit in with the student body at Pitt. Plus, H/P/F.

Also, location is important to me. I've been wanting to live in New York, and I am not a fan of the city of Pittsburgh (though like others have said, the city is nicer than I expected). I know I want to match on the east coast, so there's no reason to move to Pgh if I don't want to. Ultimately it comes down to personal factors I think, since each school is roughly similar in terms of academic quality. Good luck with your decision!

 

[drizzt3117]

I think your interests in medicine need to be looked at here too. Pittsburgh is well known for being great in almost all of the surgical specialties, Sinai might have a little better reputation for medicine, although I'm not totally sure about that.

 

[Steeler7588]

Pitt. H/P/F is less than ideal, but I met students who paid no attention to getting honors. I actually had the reverse opinion of the student bodies, guess that shows the randomness in meeting people.

I think if you are wary of NYC overwhelming you, Pittsburgh would be a great choice. UPMC would be a better place for medical education, in my opinion.

 

[LIDO]

Sinai. Hands down.

-You will love NYC
-Amazing research opportunities all over the city
-Awesome facilities
-Amazing location
-P/F is HUGE
-Better match list

The people in Pitt are strange and the weather is absolutely awful. Overcast almost 300 days each year.

Wish I had the option to hit up Sinai. Good luck. Enjoy the city

 

[jbz24]

Also keep in mind that Sinai itself is much more well regarded (at least on average) for residencies than Pitt is and Sinai takes a lot of their own students to stay as residents.

 

[drizzt3117]

Also keep in mind that Sinai itself is much more well regarded (at least on average) for residencies than Pitt is and Sinai takes a lot of their own students to stay as residents.

Just depends what residencies you're talking about. Pitt is generally regarded as a top 5 ortho program, on the cusp of a tier 1 neurosurg program, top gen surg program, etc. I think most people would agree its surgery programs are across the board stronger than Sinai's, although as I said before, I don't know much about their IM etc. Neither program is really on my radar for rads <shrug>

 

[jbz24]

Just depends what residencies you're talking about. Pitt is generally regarded as a top 5 ortho program, on the cusp of a tier 1 neurosurg program, top gen surg program, etc. I think most people would agree its surgery programs are across the board stronger than Sinai's, although as I said before, I don't know much about their IM etc. Neither program is really on my radar for rads <shrug>

Pitt is better in ortho but Sinai is better in ENT. Neurosurg I'll take your word. Plastics depends who you ask. I don't think Pitt has a top gen surg program but neither does Sinai. Pitt's IM is weak, although their fellowships are better.

 

[drizzt3117]

Pitt is better in ortho but Sinai is better in ENT. Neurosurg I'll take your word. Plastics depends who you ask. I don't think Pitt has a top gen surg program but neither does Sinai. Pitt's IM is weak, although their fellowships are better.

I've heard pretty good things about their gen surg program. One of our M4s that just matched at MGH had it #5 on his list and he interviewed pretty much everywhere, he said he thought it was a fabulous program. SDN people at least seem to consider it just below the topmost tier of BWH, MGH, Hopkins, Duke, Michigan, UCSF, etc.

Honestly I think the OP is probably better off deciding on location here. If he is dead set on surgery, Pittsburgh might be a better choice but I don't think he'd be in bad shape in Sinai because he could do "aways" at top programs in NYC and that would be pretty convenient.

 

[jbz24]

I've heard pretty good things about their gen surg program. One of our M4s that just matched at MGH had it #5 on his list and he interviewed pretty much everywhere, he said he thought it was a fabulous program. SDN people at least seem to consider it just below the topmost tier of BWH, MGH, Hopkins, Duke, Michigan, UCSF, etc.

Honestly I think the OP is probably better off deciding on location here. If he is dead set on surgery, Pittsburgh might be a better choice but I don't think he'd be in bad shape in Sinai because he could do "aways" at top programs in NYC and that would be pretty convenient.

Could be a regional thing but I've never heard anyone mention Pitt when they talk about top gsurg programs.

 

[mdeast]

I think if there are strong geographical preferences for either Pittsburgh or NYC, you should consider them. I think either school makes you competitive for a West Coast residency (assuming you want to go back to the West Coast). Sinai gives you a leg up in Manhattan residencies, and East Coast residencies in general. Pitt maybe in the Mid-West. Where do you want to end up after all is said and done?

As someone who knows many people from LA, I can say that most of my friends from Cali would definitely prefer to live in NYC to Pittsburgh. I think Pittsburgh is a great city, but in terms of night life opportunities, diversity of people, etc. LA is much closer to NYC than it is to Pittsburgh. It all depends on the type of person you are though. Cost really shouldn't be a big issue. Your rent in Pittsburgh won't be much lower than Sinai's apartments, although you will have a bigger place. You can definitely live frugally in NYC if you want to....and, oddly enough, Manhattan does have an enormous amount of FREE things to do to occupy your time. I think a lot of people forget that outside of rent (which is already cheap thanks to Sinai)...living in a big city where many things are within walking distance sometimes ends up being less expensive than the suburbs. Just try and not buy $21 cocktails too often.

Heck, I lived in London for a year as a undergrad and learned to live on the cheap (which is really inarguably a more expensive city than Manhattan...a one way tube ride without a pass cost $8 when I was there). MMmmm...sandwiches. Lots and lots of sandwiches.

 

[jbz24]

I think if there are strong geographical preferences for either Pittsburgh or NYC, you should consider them. I think either school makes you competitive for a West Coast residency (assuming you want to go back to the West Coast). Sinai gives you a leg up in Manhattan residencies, and East Coast residencies in general. Pitt maybe in the Mid-West. Where do you want to end up after all is said and done?

As someone who knows many people from LA, I can say that most of my friends from Cali would definitely prefer to live in NYC to Pittsburgh. I think Pittsburgh is a great city, but in terms of night life opportunities, diversity of people, etc. LA is much closer to NYC than it is to Pittsburgh. It all depends on the type of person you are though. Cost really shouldn't be a big issue. Your rent in Pittsburgh won't be much lower than Sinai's apartments, although you will have a bigger place. You can definitely live frugally in NYC if you want to....and, oddly enough, Manhattan does have an enormous amount of FREE things to do to occupy your time. I think a lot of people forget that outside of rent (which is already cheap thanks to Sinai)...living in a big city where many things are within walking distance sometimes ends up being less expensive than the suburbs. Just try and not buy $21 cocktails too often.

Heck, I lived in London for a year as a undergrad and learned to live on the cheap (which is really inarguably a more expensive city than Manhattan...a one way tube ride without a pass cost $8 when I was there). MMmmm...sandwiches. Lots and lots of sandwiches.

I think I'll just defer to you from now on. I agree with everything you said. I think I sometimes lose sight of the big picture when typing on SDN (getting too caught up in residency opportunities, etc.).

 

[JokerMD]

Also keep in mind that Sinai itself is much more well regarded (at least on average) for residencies than Pitt is and Sinai takes a lot of their own students to stay as residents.

 

[jbz24]

 

[JokerMD]

For a top 15 school, Pitt's match list is kind of lackluster. They do well in the midwest but not as well on the coasts.

umm...i realize that sinai is located in NYC and is a sexier school in general, but this kind of statement is just wrong.

 

[JJMrK]

I thought Pitt was pretty impressive, but didn't interview at Sinai. How does the CoA compare?

 

[BBender716]

Mt. Sinai, only because their School Specific Discussions thread is much more intriguing and less filled with people mistreated by Pitt's WL.

 

[jbz24]

umm...i realize that sinai is located in NYC and is a sexier school in general, but this kind of statement is just wrong.

I stand by that statement.

 

[JokerMD]

I stand by that statement.

proof? and please don't use the match list for 2010 and/or 2009 to make your point because that's too small of a data set.

also, where do you go to school?

 

[mdeast]

proof? and please don't use the match list for 2010 and/or 2009 to make your point because that's too small of a data set.

also, where do you go to school?

Jbz is a Sinai student...so he is clearly biased. I think Pitt enrolls a smart class and I'm sure you have just as many options and resources available to you coming from both.

Which would you be happier in? From your reasoning it looks like Sinai. I don't think match lists have any relevance...especially considering, a match list doesn't show you the individual preferences of each applicant. One candidates residency match may not be the top ranked program, but maybe it was their favorite, or the one closest to their significant other, family, etc. There are so many variables that can't be seen...which makes match lists pretty useless.

The jist of the matter is...they're both top schools with good resources. You can do whatever you want at both. What they are different in is location and culture. I think the OP liked the culture of Sinai more, but was hesitant on the location/cost. Personally, I don't see this as an issue. Sinai has the lowest tuition/living cost of any of the Manhattan medical schools. And like I said, with rent that cheap, living in a big urban center like Sinai doesn't have to be ridiculously expensive. In fact, it can be pretty cheap.

 

[JokerMD]

Jbz is a Sinai student...so he is clearly biased.

and im probably going to pitt this fall so im also kinda biased

if i had to choose between the two id go with sinai too. but Jbz makes it seem like pitt is inferior to sinai academically which i don't think is an accurate presentation of the two schools.

 

[jbz24]

and im probably going to pitt this fall so im also kinda biased

if i had to choose between the two id go with sinai too. but Jbz makes it seem like pitt is inferior to sinai academically which i don't think is an accurate presentation of the two schools.

Sorry dude, I didn't mean to offend you. I'm definitely biased, I should have been more open about it (I usually am).

 

[dw2158]

I think I'll just defer to you from now on. I agree with everything you said. I think I sometimes lose sight of the big picture when typing on SDN (getting too caught up in residency opportunities, etc.).

haha mdeast is awesome. i've already decided to find him at revisit. i hope he looks like a muppet.

I thought Pitt was pretty impressive, but didn't interview at Sinai. How does the CoA compare?

sinai's tuition is $10k cheaper than any other private school in the area. it's in the mid-thirties somewhere. i'm not sure what pitt's tuition is like, but i assume it's in the forties. my total CoA at sinai next year is like $59k, if i remember correctly? their housing is super subsidized, bringing it down almost to non-NYC prices.

 

[Question123]

One thing that concerns me about Sinai housing (maybe Jbz) can answer, is that while its super-subsidized, as you progress to upper-classroom are there more options than a 4-person suite? Even 2-person would be a huge plus... I guess part of me envisions living in a dorm at the age of 30 as not ideal... yet given the area, you really are left w/ the housing the school provides? Do your options increase over time at Sinai?

 

[jbz24]

One thing that concerns me about Sinai housing (maybe Jbz) can answer, is that while its super-subsidized, as you progress to upper-classroom are there more options than a 4-person suite? Even 2-person would be a huge plus... I guess part of me envisions living in a dorm at the age of 30 as not ideal... yet given the area, you really are left w/ the housing the school provides? Do your options increase over time at Sinai?

No, that is a drawback. Aron Hall is the only non-couples student housing. The best you can do is move up to a duplex - 2 on the top floor and 2 on the bottom floor but still one kitchen, one common area, and a balcony. There's no true 2 person suite or studio.

 

[Question123]

Is there couples housing? As in, a non-sinai student and sinai student could get this? Is it decent?

 

[jbz24]

Is there couples housing? As in, a non-sinai student and sinai student could get this? Is it decent?

Yes you can get it, but I believe you either need a domestic partnership, marriage license, or joint bank account. The housing is much nicer, they are 1 to 3 bedroom apartments, depending upon if you have kids. Of course the price goes up closer to market price with them (expect to pay at least $1500 for a 1 bedroom or at least $2000 for a 3 bedroom).

 

[Question123]

Thanks for the info!

 

[jbz24]

Thanks for the info!

No problem

 

[jbz24]

haha mdeast is awesome. i've already decided to find him at revisit. i hope he looks like a muppet.

Why WOULDN'T he look like a muppet?

 

[cdubbz]

I have heard great things from graduates about both, but there is no question that living in the city would be awesome. Also, I have heard that Pitt is a pretty competitive environment, and their class size is pretty large, so you may want to think about that when you're making your decision.

 

[mdeast]

I have heard great things from graduates about both, but there is no question that living in the city would be awesome. Also, I have heard that Pitt is a pretty competitive environment, and their class size is pretty large, so you may want to think about that when you're making your decision.

Class sizes are comparable. Pitt ~150, Sinai ~140. These are both pretty good sizes for med school classes. Not too big, not too small.

 

[phoenixsuns]

haha mdeast is awesome. i've already decided to find him at revisit. i hope he looks like a muppet.



sinai's tuition is $10k cheaper than any other private school in the area. it's in the mid-thirties somewhere. i'm not sure what pitt's tuition is like, but i assume it's in the forties. my total CoA at sinai next year is like $59k, if i remember correctly? their housing is super subsidized, bringing it down almost to non-NYC prices.

CoA is actually about the same at both places. Sinai is 35k in tuition, but it also charges 5k for student fees (whatever those are), meaning it's about 40k a year for tuition. Pitt is 40k in tution per year for non-residents.

how is your CoA so low dw? did you get a merit scholarship?

 

[jbz24]

CoA is actually about the same at both places. Sinai is 35k in tuition, but it also charges 5k for student fees (whatever those are), meaning it's about 40k a year for tuition. Pitt is 40k in tution per year for non-residents.

how is your CoA so low dw? did you get a merit scholarship?

The student fees are $800 to $860 per semester. I'm assuming the 5k includes medical insurance. Not that it's a big deal, they seem fairly similar as you said.

 

[dw2158]

CoA is actually about the same at both places. Sinai is 35k in tuition, but it also charges 5k for student fees (whatever those are), meaning it's about 40k a year for tuition. Pitt is 40k in tution per year for non-residents.

how is your CoA so low dw? did you get a merit scholarship?

The student fees are $800 to $860 per semester. I'm assuming the 5k includes medical insurance. Not that it's a big deal, they seem fairly similar as you said.

the total CoA is not just low for me; it's about $60k for everyone. i'm at work so i'm not looking at my award letter at the moment, but i'm 99.9% sure that that was the figure. sinai sets that number in stone each year, just like every other school does. sinai's tuition is way lower than other new york schools. i don't remember offhand what the fees are, but they are for sure not that high. $800ish per semester, as jbz said.

for comparision, the total CoA at NYU is about $70k for 2010-2011, according to my award letter from that school. sinai is way cheaper.

i got mucho scholarship monies. thankfully. but that has nothing to do with my CoA. it only has to do with how much of my CoA is loans/family contribution as opposed to grant money.

ETA: this explains CoA. it does not differ by student, as i was saying.