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kara521

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any thoughts?




Moderator note: There's no reason to start another thread on this. There are threads in more appropriate forums (e.g., Topics in Healthcare and Everyone). If you would like to continue the discussion, do so in those forums, not Pre-Allo.
 

deathtoOWL

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Obviously, the schools felt she had something to offer that her stats did not illustrate. Maybe it was something in the way of life experiences that attracted the schools to her. Who knows? But the one thing that this illustates is that getting into med schools is not only about numbers but about what the applicants has the offer the school and the medical profession. And besides she only got interviews save for that one school and she is not guaranteed admission anywhere even with an interview.
 
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MiesVanDerMom

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1) URMs are let in at higher rates not as AA but to fill physician shortages in minority communities. studies have shown this is the only way to do it (incentive programs etc. don't work)

2)you're operating under the assumption MCAT and GPA predict whether or not someone will make a good doctor. in fact, studies have shown URMs with the same intelligence as a comparable non-URM perform lower on the MCAT in general. So, I highly doubt US schools are churning out future patient killers

3) you're going to get the "beating a dead horse" picture posted on this thread soon since this has been discusses on here A LOT. try doing a search for past threads if you want some opinions on the subject
 

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kara521 said:
so i understand that there are groups underrepresented in medicine. i understand that there are people who did not have access to excellent educational resources, people who were not able to demonstrate their full academic potential, and people who, in some cases, were perhaps just not genetically predisposed to outstanding ambition or intelligence.

similarly, some of us were not genetically predisposed to run in the olympics. or play a musical instrument. or be a supermodel. but you don't see a sedentary person grandfathered into the boston marathon with a head start, or a tone deaf horn player given first chair in the orchestra, or an obese girl walking the runway, all just because we need to make life fair.

i understand we're talking about medicine. this is different from the above mentioned cases, i suppose. still, it seems even more serious; future physicians will be dealing with people's well being, quite often in life or death situations. i'm not arguing that all types of diversity are unfavorable--in fact, i believe that diversity enhances the academic environment greatly. if you have two students with nearly identical credentials, it seems appropriate to select the candidate who would contribute to the class diversity, whether by racial, economic, or other "hardship" standards. however, not only is lowering standards for admission detrimental to perhaps more qualified applicants, it seems also an insult to those groups to do so, enabling their status as "victims" of society to persist.

allow me to present a brief example: a girl (URM) in my post-bacc program informed me that she received three interviews at well-respected allopathic schools with a 22 MCAT and B average. one particular school informed her that if she could bring her score up to a 26, not only would she be guaranteed acceptance, she would be granted full tuition for all four years. she hastily claimed that anyone who ever said she was in med school "just because [she] was black" would get punched in the face. this made for a ridiculously uncomfortable silence as those of us in the room who were clearly not underrepresented minorities avoided eye contact as we pondered our slew of rejections with 3.6+ and upper 20s (note: not arguing that these were good stats either). anyway, i just thought the whole thing was bizarre. any thoughts?
first off, i hope you're wearing your flame-******ant underwear.

second, your examples in the second paragraph involve being genetically inferior or simply lazy. i seriously hope you're not implying either as the reason why minorities are underepresented in medicine.

third, you're frustrated, and understandably so. the girl in your example is almost certainly on a full-ride at an allopathic school because she's a minority (if those numbers are correct.) however, the numbers show that she's significantly more likely to practice medicine in an urban/underserved area, and so the aamc believes that her enrollment will help to curb the issue. that's pretty much all it comes down to.
 

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kara521 said:
so i understand that there are groups underrepresented in medicine. i understand that there are people who did not have access to excellent educational resources, people who were not able to demonstrate their full academic potential, and people who, in some cases, were perhaps just not genetically predisposed to outstanding ambition or intelligence.

similarly, some of us were not genetically predisposed to run in the olympics. or play a musical instrument. or be a supermodel. but you don't see a sedentary person grandfathered into the boston marathon with a head start, or a tone deaf horn player given first chair in the orchestra, or an obese girl walking the runway, all just because we need to make life fair.

i understand we're talking about medicine. this is different from the above mentioned cases, i suppose. still, it seems even more serious; future physicians will be dealing with people's well being, quite often in life or death situations. i'm not arguing that all types of diversity are unfavorable--in fact, i believe that diversity enhances the academic environment greatly. if you have two students with nearly identical credentials, it seems appropriate to select the candidate who would contribute to the class diversity, whether by racial, economic, or other "hardship" standards. however, not only is lowering standards for admission detrimental to perhaps more qualified applicants, it seems also an insult to those groups to do so, enabling their status as "victims" of society to persist.

allow me to present a brief example: a girl (URM) in my post-bacc program informed me that she received three interviews at well-respected allopathic schools with a 22 MCAT and B average. one particular school informed her that if she could bring her score up to a 26, not only would she be guaranteed acceptance, she would be granted full tuition for all four years. she hastily claimed that anyone who ever said she was in med school "just because [she] was black" would get punched in the face. this made for a ridiculously uncomfortable silence as those of us in the room who were clearly not underrepresented minorities avoided eye contact as we pondered our slew of rejections with 3.6+ and upper 20s (note: not arguing that these were good stats either). anyway, i just thought the whole thing was bizarre. any thoughts?
So I'm guessing you took the punch in the face?
 
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kara521

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BrettBatchelor said:
So I'm guessing you took the punch in the face?
no, we actually ended up being good friends. i just thought her comment was humorous. wasn't trying to offend anyone on here. a dead horse, yes. offensive, probably. at least it gives us all something to do while we're compulsively checking our email for updated admissions info.
 

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Hot x3!
 

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kara521 said:
so i understand that there are groups underrepresented in medicine. i understand that there are people who did not have access to excellent educational resources, people who were not able to demonstrate their full academic potential, and people who, in some cases, were perhaps just not genetically predisposed to outstanding ambition or intelligence.

similarly, some of us were not genetically predisposed to run in the olympics. or play a musical instrument. or be a supermodel. but you don't see a sedentary person grandfathered into the boston marathon with a head start, or a tone deaf horn player given first chair in the orchestra, or an obese girl walking the runway, all just because we need to make life fair.

i understand we're talking about medicine. this is different from the above mentioned cases, i suppose. still, it seems even more serious; future physicians will be dealing with people's well being, quite often in life or death situations. i'm not arguing that all types of diversity are unfavorable--in fact, i believe that diversity enhances the academic environment greatly. if you have two students with nearly identical credentials, it seems appropriate to select the candidate who would contribute to the class diversity, whether by racial, economic, or other "hardship" standards. however, not only is lowering standards for admission detrimental to perhaps more qualified applicants, it seems also an insult to those groups to do so, enabling their status as "victims" of society to persist.

allow me to present a brief example: a girl (URM) in my post-bacc program informed me that she received three interviews at well-respected allopathic schools with a 22 MCAT and B average. one particular school informed her that if she could bring her score up to a 26, not only would she be guaranteed acceptance, she would be granted full tuition for all four years. she hastily claimed that anyone who ever said she was in med school "just because [she] was black" would get punched in the face. this made for a ridiculously uncomfortable silence as those of us in the room who were clearly not underrepresented minorities avoided eye contact as we pondered our slew of rejections with 3.6+ and upper 20s (note: not arguing that these were good stats either). anyway, i just thought the whole thing was bizarre. any thoughts?

What kind of thoughts do you think are going to be posted. Something tells me you realize your issue is not a first and thus you are only looking to start a flame war.

But then again Evo said it best!!!!
 
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kara521

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riceman04 said:
What kind of thoughts do you think are going to be posted. Something tells me you realize your issue is not a first and thus you are only looking to start a flame war.

But then again Evo said it best!!!!
nope, not looking for a flame war. i was honestly hoping to get discussion going, not attacks. i apologize if the op sounded closed-minded and judgmental. i'm sure others find it frustrating, it's just an extremely sensitive issue.
 

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kara521 said:
so i understand that there are groups underrepresented in medicine. i understand that there are people who did not have access to excellent educational resources, people who were not able to demonstrate their full academic potential, and people who, in some cases, were perhaps just not genetically predisposed to outstanding ambition or intelligence.

similarly, some of us were not genetically predisposed to run in the olympics. or play a musical instrument. or be a supermodel. but you don't see a sedentary person grandfathered into the boston marathon with a head start, or a tone deaf horn player given first chair in the orchestra, or an obese girl walking the runway, all just because we need to make life fair.

i understand we're talking about medicine. this is different from the above mentioned cases, i suppose. still, it seems even more serious; future physicians will be dealing with people's well being, quite often in life or death situations. i'm not arguing that all types of diversity are unfavorable--in fact, i believe that diversity enhances the academic environment greatly. if you have two students with nearly identical credentials, it seems appropriate to select the candidate who would contribute to the class diversity, whether by racial, economic, or other "hardship" standards. however, not only is lowering standards for admission detrimental to perhaps more qualified applicants, it seems also an insult to those groups to do so, enabling their status as "victims" of society to persist.

allow me to present a brief example: a girl (URM) in my post-bacc program informed me that she received three interviews at well-respected allopathic schools with a 22 MCAT and B average. one particular school informed her that if she could bring her score up to a 26, not only would she be guaranteed acceptance, she would be granted full tuition for all four years. she hastily claimed that anyone who ever said she was in med school "just because [she] was black" would get punched in the face. this made for a ridiculously uncomfortable silence as those of us in the room who were clearly not underrepresented minorities avoided eye contact as we pondered our slew of rejections with 3.6+ and upper 20s (note: not arguing that these were good stats either). anyway, i just thought the whole thing was bizarre. any thoughts?


In this analogy you're the Italian and as you can see the rest of SDN is going to flame you.
 

MiesVanDerMom

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DoctorPardi said:


In this analogy you're the Italian and as you can see the rest of SDN is going to flame you.

I'm really enjoying all this discussion/graphics exchage about the impending flame war. where are the peace protesters? make love, not war...
 

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Haha I doubt that there will ever be the long-awaited flame war in this thread. This topic has been so thoroughly beaten down that any potential flamers would be sick and tired of flaming because they have all done it so many times.

Good luck with the "impending flame war of doom", o0o0o0o!

Realistically, if you want action and/or flaming, you might want to wait a month and let everyone catch their breath. It's like asking someone who just finished a marathon to go and run a 5K right now.

"But it's only 3.1 miles more! Come onnnnn, please?"
 
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