URM Year 2: is it too late?

[intangible]

The thick of the situation:

2nd year Biological Sciences student with minors in Chemistry and Psychology. Lousy 1.9 cGPA, first year.

Diagnosed with moderate to severe combined-type ADHD the summer following 1st year—legitimately diagnosed. Began stimulant meds. Appealed to registrar to retroactively drop 2 courses taken previously (no W's issued), cGPA bumped up to 2.33. I have one W from first year (Calculus I) and I'm trying to get an F in General Chemistry I converted to a W for the same medical reason.

Currently halfway through my third semester with no grade lower than an A-. Say I received straight A's this semester, and was given the opportunity to administratively drop the Chemistry class and receive a W (for AMCAS reasons, obviously). That would put me at a 3.26 after this semester.

I'm about to celebrate one year working as a course developer (essentially an administrator/programmer/designer) for the College of Arts and Sciences. I also have research lined up beginning next semester in cognitive neuroscience (which is housed in the Dept. of Psychology).

Besides being scientifically literate, I'm also qualified to teach a battery of graphic design programs, and am thinking about ways I can play up the artistic/creative side of my current employment.

Do I have a chance at an allopathic school here? I'm genuinely trying to be realistic—but please, give me an equally realistic justification.

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[itsthat1guy]

Way too early to tell, you're only a sophomore. But you should start volunteering asap

 

[intangible]

Thanks. Does the particular volunteer work (i.e., the type of work you do) matter at all? I've read a few mixed reviews where people will say that volunteering in medicine or science is seen as a faux pas because it should be more geared toward expressing the non-scientific, humanitarian side of your application.

 

[efle]

The MSAR lists stats about % of accepted students who volunteered clinically vs non-clinically.

The clinical numbers are always higher (sometimes by a lot, like 70% of acceptees had non-clin while 96% had clinical) so treat that as a must do. Adding on some non medical volunteerism helps too.

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

Not going to lie, yes it looks bad as of now. You don't need anyone to tell you that. But as of now isn't as of forever. If you get that F dropped, it will help your case tremendously. Even more so if you show a marked upward trend by scoring high grades from here on out. Without any real grades or MCAT though, it's nigh impossible to give you an estimate of chance. Just keep doing what you're doing and work hard for now.

 

[Boolean]

Focus on your GPA for now. EC's can wait.

 

[intangible]

The MSAR lists stats about % of accepted students who volunteered clinically vs non-clinically.

The clinical numbers are always higher (sometimes by a lot, like 70% of acceptees had non-clin while 96% had clinical) so treat that as a must do. Adding on some non medical volunteerism helps too.

So I've heard. How do you go about finding a clinical volunteer position? Being close enough to smell a patient seems pretty impossible as a volunteer. I can think of some ways to do this: volunteer research assistantships (wouldn't it be like killing two birds with one stone?) or volunteer scribing (I don't think many hospitals do this).

Are there any actual positions I should be looking out for?

Not going to lie, yes it looks bad as of now. You don't need anyone to tell you that. But as of now isn't as of forever. If you get that F dropped, it will help your case tremendously. Even more so if you show a marked upward trend by scoring high grades from here on out. Without any real grades or MCAT though, it's nigh impossible to give you an estimate of chance. Just keep doing what you're doing and work hard for now.

Yeah, I'm aware my chances at the moment can't be seen through an SEM. But I'm trying to recover. I need to know if that effort will be futile or not. I've calculated my possible GPA pulling straight A's for the next three or four semesters and I come close to a 3.5-3.6 territory. That isn't realistic, not having taken O-chem or physics. I'm definitely going to work to get there, but as always, room for error. Hopefully with a few more grades in after next semester, I'll be able to see more tangible (ahem...) improvement.

 

[gyngyn]

Which community do you represent?

 

[intangible]

Which community do you represent?

Hispanic/Latino heritage (Cuba); born in the States.

 

[efle]

So I've heard. How do you go about finding a clinical volunteer position? Being close enough to smell a patient seems pretty impossible as a volunteer. I can think of some ways to do this: volunteer research assistantships (wouldn't it be like killing two birds with one stone?) or volunteer scribing (I don't think many hospitals do this).

Are there any actual positions I should be looking out for?

What has been awesome for me is acting as a volunteer tutor at the children's hospital, helping keep kids up to date when they have to miss lots of school. Tons of patient interaction, in a hospital setting, and it's fun and rewarding to boot. So basically watch out for positions like that where you are actually helping the patients directly (another awesome job someone else does is reading aloud to patients who have visual difficulty/are too tired or drugged to read themselves/want some company).

What you don't want to do is say "put me where I'm most needed". Noble, but almost always results in a "go fetch this and take it there, repeat for hours" type job.

 

[gyngyn]

Hispanic/Latino heritage (Cuba); born in the States.

Cubanos are not considered under-represented in medicine. Language skills are always a plus, though.

 

[intangible]

What has been awesome for me is acting as a volunteer tutor at the children's hospital, helping keep kids up to date when they have to miss lots of school. Tons of patient interaction, in a hospital setting, and it's fun and rewarding to boot. So basically watch out for positions like that where you are actually helping the patients directly (another awesome job someone else does is reading aloud to patients who have visual difficulty/are too tired or drugged to read themselves/want some company).

What you don't want to do is say "put me where I'm most needed". Noble, but almost always results in a "go fetch this and take it there, repeat for hours" type job.

Interesting; I'd never really considered that. I'd assumed that most of the volunteer work that adcoms would prefer are more technical in nature.

Cubanos are not considered under-represented in medicine. Language skills are always a plus, though.

This would be the first time I've ever heard someone say that Latinos are not considered URM. Has the definition changed recently? I thought that the URM definition is dynamic (I read a study on URM definitions in academic medicine some time ago); i.e., changes relative to region. So, maybe UMiami isn't somewhere you could be considered URM, but how about anywhere but South FL?

 

[efle]

Interesting; I'd never really considered that. I'd assumed that most of the volunteer work that adcoms would prefer are more technical in nature.

Nah, they want to see a) you like to help people b) you've been exposed to patients and medical environment, and clinical volunteering does those both. You also need c) have an idea what doctors do but that requires shadowing (not just being around docs a lot while volunteering).

 

[Boolean]

Interesting; I'd never really considered that. I'd assumed that most of the volunteer work that adcoms would prefer are more technical in nature.



This would be the first time I've ever heard someone say that Latinos are not considered URM. Has the definition changed recently? I thought that the URM definition is dynamic (I read a study on URM definitions in academic medicine some time ago); i.e., changes relative to region. So, maybe UMiami isn't somewhere you could be considered URM, but how about anywhere but South FL?

URM is more of a sweeping and nationwide decision by AMCAS. It is rarely (if ever) school specific. Last I checked (about two weeks ago), Cubans are not considered URM.

 

[LizzyM]

URM is more of a sweeping and nationwide decision by AMCAS. It is rarely (if ever) school specific. Last I checked (about two weeks ago), Cubans are not considered URM.

That is not how I read the AAMC.
https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/
Look at the three bullet points.

It is very much school specific.

 

[Boolean]

That is not how I read the AAMC.
https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/
Look at the three bullet points.

It is very much school specific.

Hmm. So it is primarily regional based? How would a school go about determining if someone is a URM in their area vs a URM in the US? Population statistics?

 

[gyngyn]

This would be the first time I've ever heard someone say that Latinos are not considered URM. Has the definition changed recently? I thought that the URM definition is dynamic (I read a study on URM definitions in academic medicine some time ago); i.e., changes relative to region. So, maybe UMiami isn't somewhere you could be considered URM, but how about anywhere but South FL?

Generally speaking, Cubans tend to be well represented as physicians in proportion to their percentage of the population.

 

[Lucca]

Interesting; I'd never really considered that. I'd assumed that most of the volunteer work that adcoms would prefer are more technical in nature.



This would be the first time I've ever heard someone say that Latinos are not considered URM. Has the definition changed recently? I thought that the URM definition is dynamic (I read a study on URM definitions in academic medicine some time ago); i.e., changes relative to region. So, maybe UMiami isn't somewhere you could be considered URM, but how about anywhere but South FL?

It's more specific than Latino. URM Latino in medicine generally means Mexican, Mexican American, or Puerto Rican. Im natively south american so im not urm and cuban is not considered urm either for the reason gyngyn posted above.

 

[intangible]

That's weird. I'd point you to a recent study published this year. Since 2002, it looks like Hispanics in general are accounted for as URM (including "Cuban, Mexican American, Puerto Rican, Other Hispanic, and Multiple Hispanic") by the AAMC.

It just looks like the answer changes depending on who you ask. My perception was that minority recruitment (of which I had the impression was more race-based than anything else) was fairly fluid and allotted certain consideration to any minority that isn't blatantly overrepresented in medicine.

 

[LizzyM]

Schools can define it as they wish based on the needs of their geographic location, or nationally if they are training docs to go coast to coast as some are.

I think that some schools will even take "native speakers of Spanish" regardless of ethnicity as "under-represented". YMMV.

 

[Boolean]

Schools can define it as they wish based on the needs of their geographic location, or nationally if they are training docs to go coast to coast as some are.

I think that some schools will even take "native speakers of Spanish" regardless of ethnicity as "under-represented". YMMV.

In that case, is the best course of action to contact the school and ask who they consider under-represented? Or would that be in poor taste?

 

[intangible]

In that case, is the best course of action to contact the school and ask who they consider under-represented? Or would that be in poor taste?

I think a good indicator is generally any relevant missions/visions the school posts—but that much is obvious. I know schools like Baylor and UTSA have had entanglements with Hispanic advancement programs in the past and have historically shown a higher concentration of matriculated Hispanic students relative to the rest of the country. Of course, it ultimately depends on whether or not they want you as an applicant—the whole URM part is secondary, or even tertiary to more telling parts of the application.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

having a chance at allopathic schools in general: gpa<3.5, mcat<30, some EC, great LOR

 

[LizzyM]

having a chance at allopathic schools in general: gpa<3.5, mcat<30, some EC, great LOR

I think that you mean GPA >3.49, MCAT>29.

In that case, is the best course of action to contact the school and ask who they consider under-represented? Or would that be in poor taste?

It is best to apply to the schools where you feel you'd be a good fit and let things play out as they may.

 

[intangible]

I think that you mean GPA >3.49, MCAT>29.

Aside from meeting these standards, what can I do now to raise my chances?

 

[Afford]

Aside from meeting these standards, what can I do now to raise my chances?

Clinical experience as an EMT, scribing, volunteering and some non-clinical volunteering. A lot of my interviewers really liked the time I spent in Engineers Without Borders even though it's not medically related because of what I did and what I learned from it.

Also, florida is a really good state to be a pre-med because there are plenty of med schools that favor in-state applicants.

 

[Meerkatology]

sample size 1 but..
I got into a mid tier allopathic school with a 3.4 cGpa. didn't have any special circumstances/excuses.
Average EC's. high mcat.

oh and I'm an ORM - asian.

TDLR: I don't think your GPA will by any means be a deal breaker (if i understood correctly you're gonna end up with a ~3.5?), you have a good excuse for a GPA that's not even THAT bad with a strong positive trend.... and you're an URM.

PS. assuming your GPA is from a reasonable school and not a super easy community college.

 

[intangible]

sample size 1 but..
I got into a mid tier allopathic school with a 3.4 cGpa. didn't have any special circumstances/excuses.
Average EC's. high mcat.

oh and I'm an ORM - asian.

TDLR: I don't think your GPA will by any means be a deal breaker (if i understood correctly you're gonna end up with a ~3.5?), you have a good excuse for a GPA that's not even THAT bad with a strong positive trend.... and you're an URM.

PS. assuming your GPA is from a reasonable school and not a super easy community college.

How high was high for your MCAT? I do go to a 4-year university.

And, to all of the adcoms out there: should I even mention ADHD in my application? While it was the primary reason my academics couldn't catch up, I feel that the stigmatization of the disorder in general can bias the interviewer and/or the panel. I do not accept any accommodations offered to me by my university (nor do I think I reasonably need them).

 

[Meerkatology]

How high was high for your MCAT? I do go to a 4-year university.

37r

I have a feeling that mcats above 35 really doens't make a difference. its almost like a low pass, high pass kind of thing.