US Med grad moving to New Zealand

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

TheMightyAngus

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
1,191
Reaction score
6
My wife is from New Zealand and we were looking into the possibility of returning back to the commonwealth after I finish my residency here in the states. I was wondering if it's possible to practice in Australia/New Zealand after you are fully licensed to be a practicing physician in America. Can it be done? What hoops do I have to jump through? Anyone have any experience with this? I know that it's possible to do fellowships abroad, but is this because fellowship is still considered training/education? Any help will be welcomed.

Members don't see this ad.
 
TheMightyAngus said:
My wife is from New Zealand and we were looking into the possibility of returning back to the commonwealth after I finish my residency here in the states. I was wondering if it's possible to practice in Australia/New Zealand after you are fully licensed to be a practicing physician in America. Can it be done? What hoops do I have to jump through? Anyone have any experience with this? I know that it's possible to do fellowships abroad, but is this because fellowship is still considered training/education? Any help will be welcomed.
BUMP

I was wondering the same thing
 
Members don't see this ad :)
> Can it be done?

Yes, but.

It is fairly easy to work in NZ or AU for a set period of time once you have your primary medical qualification, it is far more difficult to work there for good.

> What hoops do I have to jump through?

Here are my five cent (I have no personal experience, I know however a couple of people who did either sabatticals DU or worked there for a while). I have toyed with the idea of going to NZ for a year or so, I hear it is a nice piece of earth and all of the NZ docs I have met here in the states so far couldn't wait to go back, the better financial opportunities in the US nonwithstanding)


NZ
Once you have your US board certification, you can go to the NZ registration board and have your credentials evaluated. If they find them substantially comparable to the NZ training, you can get a 'vocational registration' to practice limited to your specialty. These positions are pretty much limited to the public health sector (which from my understanding provides the majority of medical care in NZ).

I don't know whether there is any reasonable access to training positions in NZ for foreigners. Judging from the experiences of the NZ docs I have met doing their residencies in the US, access to specialty training positions is competitive.

NZ accepts USMLE for access into temporary and training positions. If you get your specialty certification recognized for a 'vocational registration', you don't need to write their local licensing exam NZREX.

AU
Through restrictive and idiotic immigration policies in the recent past, AU has a considerable shortage of physicians.

In order to practice independently in AU as a foreign trained physician (sorry, overseas trained (OTD)), you need to write the AMC (australian medical exam) and wait for 10 years until you are eligible for a medicare billing number.

However, in the meantime the aussies are running out of physicians. Even in the outer suburban belt of major cities, positions in public hospitals remain unfilled (the positions are thus designated to be in an 'Area of Need')

This seems to be mainly at the attending level. For these so called 'Area of Need' positions, AU imports foreign physicians after sometimes only cursory check of their credentials (there has been a recent scandal where a surgeon who had lost his license in NY and got it restricted in Oregon managed to finagle an 'Area of Need' registration in Queensland. Allegedly he butchered a couple of esophagus resections and hurt trauma patients by refusing to transfer them. When the medical board and parliament investigated him, he skipped the country and is hiding in Portland, OR. It is a whole political storm in Qld, endangering the future of the AoN program.)

But even at the level of employed junior physicians for inpatient care, there is a shortage. Positions as 'resident medical officer' (RMO) are readily available and there are agencies actively recruiting residents in europe and South Africa. However, THESE POSITIONS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE AS TRAINING POSITIONS. In order to become eligible for the respective australian college exams, you need an accredited training position. And in order to get these training positions, you need to be a permanent resident of AU and you need the AMC (with some exceptions). Also, access into the AU accredited specialty training positions is competitive. (Often, you have to write the first part of the board exam in the respective specialty, just to be eligible to apply for a position.)

So, if you really intend to stay in AU for the long haul, you might want to think about writing the AMC up front. It is from my understanding not a trivial exam, and you might think about writing it alongside with your USMLE's while the subject matter is fresh in your mind.
 
TheMightyAngus said:
My wife is from New Zealand and we were looking into the possibility of returning back to the commonwealth after I finish my residency here in the states. I was wondering if it's possible to practice in Australia/New Zealand after you are fully licensed to be a practicing physician in America. Can it be done? What hoops do I have to jump through? Anyone have any experience with this? I know that it's possible to do fellowships abroad, but is this because fellowship is still considered training/education? Any help will be welcomed.

Go to www.mcnz.org.nz. There's a pretty straight-forward online form to fill out.
 
f_w said:
> Can it be done?

Yes, but.

It is fairly easy to work in NZ or AU for a set period of time once you have your primary medical qualification, it is far more difficult to work there for good.

> What hoops do I have to jump through?

Here are my five cent (I have no personal experience, I know however a couple of people who did either sabatticals DU or worked there for a while). I have toyed with the idea of going to NZ for a year or so, I hear it is a nice piece of earth and all of the NZ docs I have met here in the states so far couldn't wait to go back, the better financial opportunities in the US nonwithstanding)


NZ
Once you have your US board certification, you can go to the NZ registration board and have your credentials evaluated. If they find them substantially comparable to the NZ training, you can get a 'vocational registration' to practice limited to your specialty. These positions are pretty much limited to the public health sector (which from my understanding provides the majority of medical care in NZ).

I don't know whether there is any reasonable access to training positions in NZ for foreigners. Judging from the experiences of the NZ docs I have met doing their residencies in the US, access to specialty training positions is competitive.

NZ accepts USMLE for access into temporary and training positions. If you get your specialty certification recognized for a 'vocational registration', you don't need to write their local licensing exam NZREX.

AU
Through restrictive and idiotic immigration policies in the recent past, AU has a considerable shortage of physicians.

In order to practice independently in AU as a foreign trained physician (sorry, overseas trained (OTD)), you need to write the AMC (australian medical exam) and wait for 10 years until you are eligible for a medicare billing number.

However, in the meantime the aussies are running out of physicians. Even in the outer suburban belt of major cities, positions in public hospitals remain unfilled (the positions are thus designated to be in an 'Area of Need')

This seems to be mainly at the attending level. For these so called 'Area of Need' positions, AU imports foreign physicians after sometimes only cursory check of their credentials (there has been a recent scandal where a surgeon who had lost his license in NY and got it restricted in Oregon managed to finagle an 'Area of Need' registration in Queensland. Allegedly he butchered a couple of esophagus resections and hurt trauma patients by refusing to transfer them. When the medical board and parliament investigated him, he skipped the country and is hiding in Portland, OR. It is a whole political storm in Qld, endangering the future of the AoN program.)

But even at the level of employed junior physicians for inpatient care, there is a shortage. Positions as 'resident medical officer' (RMO) are readily available and there are agencies actively recruiting residents in europe and South Africa. However, THESE POSITIONS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE AS TRAINING POSITIONS. In order to become eligible for the respective australian college exams, you need an accredited training position. And in order to get these training positions, you need to be a permanent resident of AU and you need the AMC (with some exceptions). Also, access into the AU accredited specialty training positions is competitive. (Often, you have to write the first part of the board exam in the respective specialty, just to be eligible to apply for a position.)

So, if you really intend to stay in AU for the long haul, you might want to think about writing the AMC up front. It is from my understanding not a trivial exam, and you might think about writing it alongside with your USMLE's while the subject matter is fresh in your mind.


Much obliged. So you have to wait about ten years after your sit the AMC for medicare billing number to get paid by insurance in Australia? Wow!

It sounds like most of the positions you're talking about are in government run hospitals/clinics. I guess the opportunities for fellowship and other academic positions are pretty slim. I dont think I'd give up my career here to become a government employed doc in Australia/NZ. Guess the wife has got to get used to life without marmite.
 
> Much obliged. So you have to wait about ten years after your sit
> the AMC for medicare billing number to get paid by insurance in
> Australia? Wow!

Area of need positions are excluded from this ban.

> I guess the opportunities for fellowship and other academic
> positions are pretty slim.

Lets say competitive, at least as competitive as here.

> I dont think I'd give up my career here to become a government
> employed doc in Australia/NZ.

AU has a sizeable private medical sector which works in parallel to the goverment health system.
 
TheMightyAngus said:
Much obliged. So you have to wait about ten years after your sit the AMC for medicare billing number to get paid by insurance in Australia? Wow!

It sounds like most of the positions you're talking about are in government run hospitals/clinics. I guess the opportunities for fellowship and other academic positions are pretty slim. I dont think I'd give up my career here to become a government employed doc in Australia/NZ. Guess the wife has got to get used to life without marmite.

All the medical schools have their clinical teaching in the (government-run) public hospitals. Most of the faculties at medical schools have public hospital appointments PLUS 1-2 days a week of private practice (=$$$). All the medical schools in Aus/NZ are government-funded. So your picture of being a "government doc" is probably quite different from reality.

I think you gotta stop interpreting the system according to US mould. Ask around for a nice aussie/kiwi doc in your local hospital for the complete rundown on health system
 
f_w said:
AU has a sizeable private medical sector which works in parallel to the goverment health system.

Does this mean you could work in the private sector exclusively (if you didnt have a government medicade number?)

Also what does Area of Need translate to in real life, are we talking about remote towns in the outback, or are smaller towns like toowomba, and outer brisbane, melbourne, etc.?

To all that are contributing to this, thank you this information is very helpful.

Goose
 
sjkpark said:
All the medical schools have their clinical teaching in the (government-run) public hospitals. Most of the faculties at medical schools have public hospital appointments PLUS 1-2 days a week of private practice (=$$$). All the medical schools in Aus/NZ are government-funded. So your picture of being a "government doc" is probably quite different from reality.

I think you gotta stop interpreting the system according to US mould. Ask around for a nice aussie/kiwi doc in your local hospital for the complete rundown on health system

I see now. So the Australian med schools permit faculty to moonlight in private practice? Wow. So you wouldn't actually be losing out on financial opportunity by going into academia. That's good to keep in mind.

I really don't know much about the Australian medical training. Is it the same med school, residency, fellowship training as in the US? Or is it completely different?
 
> Does this mean you could work in the private sector
> exclusively (if you didnt have a government medicade number?)

From my understanding of the aussie healthcare system, you need the ability to bill medicare in order to run a private practice. A good share of the regular patients have their coverage through the medicare program (similar to the US), if you can't bill medicare, your opportunities are very limited (which was the intent of the law, to keep OTD's from getting into the PP market.

Physicians working exclusively at public hospitals don't need their own number. They bill either under the hospitals number or under the number of the head of the department.

> Also what does Area of Need translate to in real life, are we talking
> about remote towns in the outback, or are smaller towns like
> toowomba, and outer brisbane, melbourne, etc.?

There are AoN positions anywhere from the outer suburbs of the major cities to rural agricultural areas and the outback. If you want to check out what kind of positions are designated as AoN, you might want to check out the NSW department of health website:

http://www3.health.nsw.gov.au/healthjobs/index.html
(look under 'employment' and 'Health Jobs')

Other states in AU have similar programs and recruitment websites.
 
Interestingly, looks like Queensland has taken down their AoN pages, prob because of the current Patel problems. There's been talk of having the feds take over the program, but it looks like everything's on hold for a while until they straighten things out (damned political fallout!).

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/medical/areaofneed.asp
 
> Interestingly, looks like Queensland has taken down their
> AoN pages, prob because of the current Patel problems.

From what I understand Qld has a moratorium on further AoN positions, at least until October 15th. They are planning to prune back the number of AoN positions, but more importantly, they want to improve the credentials check.

Different from medical boards in the US for example, they didn't require 'primary source verification' and allowed the applicants to submit all documents in one packet. This of course reduces their workload, but it allowed scumbags and crooks such as this Patel dude to falsify documents and obtain medical registration anyway.

They are talking to some agency they want to contract to do the source verification for things like medical diplomas, letters of good standing and references. It will take a while to get this more thorough process off the ground.
 
TheMightyAngus said:
I see now. So the Australian med schools permit faculty to moonlight in private practice? Wow. So you wouldn't actually be losing out on financial opportunity by going into academia. That's good to keep in mind.

I really don't know much about the Australian medical training. Is it the same med school, residency, fellowship training as in the US? Or is it completely different?

I don't know anything about Aussie, should have mentioned before sorry. I'm in New Zealand.

And it's not moonlighting - these people have their own offices and appear on the stationery etc. They usually form a group with other academics/public hospital consultants in the same situation. In fact, there aren't many people who do private work exclusively.

Although Aussie and NZ have different public health system, specialist training schemes are basically the same, run by the same organisations except a couple of specialties. And specialist training system is completely different from US, generally speaking more no of years and exams.

So you have a lot of homework to do. Get in touch with Aussie/Kiwi docs in your area and have a good, lengthy chat.
 
All of this is very helpful. Are there many American physicians working in Australia and New Zealand? Do you encounter them often?
 
TheMightyAngus said:
All of this is very helpful. Are there many American physicians working in Australia and New Zealand? Do you encounter them often?

Every now and then, yes. I'm talking about Americans who trained there and immigtrated to New Zealand.

However, there are LOTS of Kiwi doctors who spent some years in America doing fellowships. Most of them went to pretty impressive places too, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Mayo, etc.
 
Increasing numbers of US docs in NZ - especially in Emergency Medicine, Internal Medicine (and specialities) and Radiology. Surgery still more of closed shop - this in part reflects protectionism of private practice. If you have only done a 3 year residency it is unlikely you will get Vocational registration without 5-10 years post-residency experience. Our Specialty training is 5-6 years in length so the colleges look for equivelency - be it residency alone or residency + a fellowship - but 3 years without experience will not be enough.

cheers
 
Top