US medical degree + UK residency?

[Cholinergic]

Is this possible? I'm interested in working in the EU and understand it will be much easier to do that with an EU residency. However, in the event that I wanted to come back to the US to work, would it be just a matter of taking board certification exams (since I have the US medical degree and am not a foreign medical grad)?

Thanks in advance

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[prefontaine]

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[prefontaine]

The UK does not have enough residency positions for their own grads, it will be virtually impossible for you to attain one.

You will not be board qualified in the US with the UK training and
you would still have to do 1-3 years of residency in the US to get licensed.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Is this possible? I'm interested in working in the EU and understand it will be much easier to do that with an EU residency.

Tough but not impossible. As noted above, working in the UK may be close to impossible without UK education or citizenship, you may have options in other countries in the EU, if you are fluent in the language. I'd suggest checking out the International Forums as they have a lot more information about this issue.

However, in the event that I wanted to come back to the US to work, would it be just a matter of taking board certification exams (since I have the US medical degree and am not a foreign medical grad)?

Different boards have different requirements, but in general:

1) to take the exam(s) toward board certification, you must be board eligible;

2) to be board eligible, you must have completed your residency in an approved US residency program.

Check out the website(s) for the specialties you are potentially interested in for more information.

If you wish to work in the US without having completed a US residency, you will most likely find yourself restricted to cash only, "boutique" practices, as most insurance companies and MediCare will not reimburse non-board eligible physicians.

 

[spyyder]

I am pretty sure UK programs are ACGME certified and qualify for the same boards as the US. Several Caribbean med schools send students to the UK for clinical rotations and they are all ACGME certified and accepted in the US.

 

[dutchman]

so a person board certified in the U.S cannot work in the U.K?

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

There is limited reciprocity between US and UK porstgraduate training programs. Basically you need to train in the country you wish to practice in.

UK postgraduate education is more humane, the hours are more reasonable (50-60/wk on average), the pay is much better (60-80k/yr for interns), but it takes about 2yrs longer to reach to specialist in any field. Once trained you'd be eligible for a year knocked off your US residency (ie: 2yrs for internal medicine) at most - but could go across as a US faculty member but that limits your practice to one academic center.

US postgraduate education as you know is not reasonable hours or salary. It is also not recognized by the UK. There are some opportunities for fully trained attendings in some areas (esp. radiology) to come across to practice on a temporary permit (either on a training permit in big places, or a practice permit in far flung places) but you couldn't turn these into a permanent position. While US medical resources are respected, in general US residency training isn't respected in the UK.

I say all this as a UK graduate leaving the UK to do a US residency.

The other factor is that UK training is close to impossible to get these days (22000 places for 30000 UK grads in this years match). All in all you'd be better off in the US (do derm and moon-light 10hrs/wk - that will recreate the UK residency experience for you!).

 

[leorl]

Just to add that if you were thinking of going over, you'd have to sit the PLAB exams (sort of like our USMLEs). And I'll echo that UK training positions are very difficult to get if you're non-EU nowadays, but that doesn't mean you can't try. You may find progression through the ranks rather trying.

 

[sirus_virus]

There is limited reciprocity between US and UK porstgraduate training programs. Basically you need to train in the country you wish to practice in.

UK postgraduate education is more humane, the hours are more reasonable (50-60/wk on average), the pay is much better (60-80k/yr for interns), but it takes about 2yrs longer to reach to specialist in any field. Once trained you'd be eligible for a year knocked off your US residency (ie: 2yrs for internal medicine) at most - but could go across as a US faculty member but that limits your practice to one academic center.

US postgraduate education as you know is not reasonable hours or salary. It is also not recognized by the UK. There are some opportunities for fully trained attendings in some areas (esp. radiology) to come across to practice on a temporary permit (either on a training permit in big places, or a practice permit in far flung places) but you couldn't turn these into a permanent position. While US medical resources are respected, in general US residency training isn't respected in the UK.

I say all this as a UK graduate leaving the UK to do a US residency.

The other factor is that UK training is close to impossible to get these days (22000 places for 30000 UK grads in this years match). All in all you'd be better off in the US (do derm and moon-light 10hrs/wk - that will recreate the UK residency experience for you!).

I heard residents in the U.K get payed overtime past a certain number of hours per week.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I heard residents in the U.K get payed overtime past a certain number of hours per week.

They do, but there is a great discentive to work more hours than you are scheduled for (a la, "why can't you get your work done in the time allotted?").

 

[Winged Scapula]

I am pretty sure UK programs are ACGME certified and qualify for the same boards as the US. Several Caribbean med schools send students to the UK for clinical rotations and they are all ACGME certified and accepted in the US.

ACGME does not certify medical student rotations. They may approve them as being acceptable when applying for residency as "counting" toward the total number of weeks, but the ACGME does not get involved in these otherwise.

Doing a rotation at a medical school which is approved by the ACGME or even doing a rotation at a US hospital which is ACGME approved for residencies in that specialty does not mean that one is eligible to become board certified.

Some specialties clearly state that to be Board Eligible you must have completed your training in an approved US or Canadian program ( the American College of Surgeons, for example). Others have programs in which those trained outside of the US can apply for BC if they have spent a number of years working as an attending in a hospital with an approved ACGME residency program (ie, Anesthesiology).

Every specialty has its own rules and they may change from time to time. Better to train in the country you want to work, rather than hope and pray you will be eligible when the time comes.

 

[StevenRF]

I was interested in doing something similar, but the consensus I got was that I should do residency in the US. After you're board certified, you can go over on the HSMP program pretty easily since your salary from residency and job are enough. Almost every medical job is on the shortage list too!

It seems that almost every country is so low on docs that once you're certified in the US you can write your ticket to anywhere in the world if the language isn't a problem.

PS If you're interested in just london, you could do an MD/MBA, which would give you an automatic visa, and then try to work something out once you're there.

 

[Cholinergic]

I was interested in doing something similar, but the consensus I got was that I should do residency in the US. After you're board certified, you can go over on the HSMP program pretty easily since your salary from residency and job are enough. Almost every medical job is on the shortage list too!

It seems that almost every country is so low on docs that once you're certified in the US you can write your ticket to anywhere in the world if the language isn't a problem.

PS If you're interested in just london, you could do an MD/MBA, which would give you an automatic visa, and then try to work something out once you're there.

Bolded part 1: What is HSMP progam?

Bolded part 2: Is that really true? I can't even find a website for the certification board for France (which is where I'd ideally like to work, even in the American Hospital of Paris).

Bolded part 3: I'm not sure I understand this. Can you explain?

 

[Cholinergic]

I appreciate all the replies! The plot thickens. I don't know what I'm going to do. I guess I'll just finish in the US and pray that I can get a job overseas (which seems to be equally impossible to do).

 

[Cholinergic]

so a person board certified in the U.S cannot work in the U.K?

No, there;s a general medical council in the UK. But the website says pretty much up front that it's hard to find work. The hospital or practice that hires you has to prove that there was a need that couldn't be fulfilled in their own country.

 

[deleted109597]

One question not answered yet. Why? You would earn more here (most likely). You wouldn't have socialized healthcare to deal with (not for the next couple years anyway). And any place you move, if you live there long enough, gets old . If travel is your bag, there are other ways to do it. It is pretty easy to do locums work in the South Pacific.

 

[Cholinergic]

One question not answered yet. Why? You would earn more here (most likely). You wouldn't have socialized healthcare to deal with (not for the next couple years anyway). And any place you move, if you live there long enough, gets old . If travel is your bag, there are other ways to do it. It is pretty easy to do locums work in the South Pacific.

It's not about the $$$. I just want to live in Europe. I guess I don't have an actual reason other than that.