LuciusVorenus

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If you look at the methodology for how the rankings are assigned in both research and primary care it says they use:

Peer assessment
Assessment by residency directors
Student Selectivity
Mean MCAT
Mean UG GPA
Acceptance rate
Faculty resources

the difference between the two come from

Research activity (factored in only for research rankings) and
Primary care rate (factored in only for the primary care rankings)

I was wondering if there was a list of rankings that excluded both of those...
I don't know, it just seems like the rankings would be more useful if they put more emphasis on assessment by residency directors, etc...
 

mmmcdowe

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If you look at the methodology for how the rankings are assigned in both research and primary care it says they use:

Peer assessment
Assessment by residency directors
Student Selectivity
Mean MCAT
Mean UG GPA
Acceptance rate
Faculty resources

the difference between the two come from

Research activity (factored in only for research rankings) and
Primary care rate (factored in only for the primary care rankings)

I was wondering if there was a list of rankings that excluded both of those...
I don't know, it just seems like the rankings would be more useful if they put more emphasis on assessment by residency directors, etc...
You could do the math and exclude them from the schools that you are specifically interested in.
 

LuciusVorenus

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You could do the math and exclude them from the schools that you are specifically interested in.
Do they actually give you the numbers used in the rankings if you pay?
 

klmnop

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one could make the argument that the evaluation by residency directors is the most important factor, and that avg.mcat, ugpa, acceptance rate all means crap
 

LuciusVorenus

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one could make the argument that the evaluation by residency directors is the most important factor, and that avg.mcat, ugpa, acceptance rate all means crap
Exactly. Haha
why don't they just give us that D:
 

Law2Doc

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one could make the argument that the evaluation by residency directors is the most important factor, and that avg.mcat, ugpa, acceptance rate all means crap
I would actually suggest that the evaluation by residency directors in the US News methodology is the most useless part, and here's why. They group a smattering of residency directors across multiple specialties, with partial representation from some fields and not others. You have to realize that when one chooses a residency, one chooses the specialty first, and then applies within that specialty. And even within specialties, residencies are hardly homogeneous -- there are good programs and bad, those you might be interested in and those you wouldn't touch due to malignant culture. So, one couldn't care less what folks in another specialty think of your school, to the extent it plays a role (which it nearly doesn't). So a grouping of dissimilar fields each ranking a program based on their own experiences isn't useful. Nor are groupings of geographically dissimilar residency programs, or a big range of programs. You don't care what the medicine PDs in the South think about grads of your school if you are going to be applying to west coast surgery programs. Doesn't matter one iota. Garbage analysis for you. I really don't see how a grouping of 30 PDs in different fields and geographic locations who happened to be the PDs who returned the survey really should play a role in a useful ranking. Lets say the program gets a high score because the majority of fields other than the one you choose liked it, even though the sole responding PD in your target field actually gave the program a subpar grade. Does that mean you are helping yourself by following the final number while you only care about a small component of it. So not so useful after all. Now if they broke it down by individual specialties, then maybe you could glean some aspect of reputation (although a lot of this is driven not so much by the school but the perception of the alumni who came before you and went into the various residency programs). But as a lumped grouping, the data you care about gets averaged out a lot of the time.
 

futureboy

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US News rankings are garbage for everything (undergrad, professional schools, etc.) and should be ignored. But they aren't.

Nothing can substitute for doing your own due diligence on a school or program.
 
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I would actually suggest that the evaluation by residency directors in the US News methodology is the most useless part, and here's why. They group a smattering of residency directors across multiple specialties, with partial representation from some fields and not others. You have to realize that when one chooses a residency, one chooses the specialty first, and then applies within that specialty. And even within specialties, residencies are hardly homogeneous -- there are good programs and bad, those you might be interested in and those you wouldn't touch due to malignant culture. So, one couldn't care less what folks in another specialty think of your school, to the extent it plays a role (which it nearly doesn't). So a grouping of dissimilar fields each ranking a program based on their own experiences isn't useful. Nor are groupings of geographically dissimilar residency programs, or a big range of programs. You don't care what the medicine PDs in the South think about grads of your school if you are going to be applying to west coast surgery programs. Doesn't matter one iota. Garbage analysis for you. I really don't see how a grouping of 30 PDs in different fields and geographic locations who happened to be the PDs who returned the survey really should play a role in a useful ranking. Lets say the program gets a high score because the majority of fields other than the one you choose liked it, even though the sole responding PD in your target field actually gave the program a subpar grade. Does that mean you are helping yourself by following the final number while you only care about a small component of it. So not so useful after all. Now if they broke it down by individual specialties, then maybe you could glean some aspect of reputation (although a lot of this is driven not so much by the school but the perception of the alumni who came before you and went into the various residency programs). But as a lumped grouping, the data you care about gets averaged out a lot of the time.
good explanation, informative. thanks!!
 

slowbutsteady

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Question: Might the Primary Care rankings be a bit (or a lot) skewed?

If they show which schools produce the most primary care residents, might they really be showing the schools that failed to get their students into top specialty residencies and they, thus, had to "settle" for primary care?

Not a knock on primary care, just an honest question.
 

Ischemic

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Yep, US News rankings are as good as brushing your teeth with a gun. The only benefit you get out of applying to Top X school is all the gushing and ooing you're going to get when you tell random people you don't even know or will see again where you go to school. Momentary boost in ego but in the end doesn't mean jack when it doesn't help you reach your goals.
 

LuciusVorenus

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Yep, US News rankings are as good as brushing your teeth with a gun. The only benefit you get out of applying to Top X school is all the gushing and ooing you're going to get when you tell random people you don't even know or will see again where you go to school. Momentary boost in ego but in the end doesn't mean jack when it doesn't help you reach your goals.
:thumbup:
Been there, done that.
 

thesauce

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Question: Might the Primary Care rankings be a bit (or a lot) skewed?

If they show which schools produce the most primary care residents, might they really be showing the schools that failed to get their students into top specialty residencies and they, thus, had to "settle" for primary care?

Not a knock on primary care, just an honest question.
Yes, the primary care rankings are, in essence, anti-specialty rankings. You could just as easily produce a "top specialty school" rank list and it would include few of these "top primary care schools."
 

LuciusVorenus

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Yes, the primary care rankings are, in essence, anti-specialty rankings. You could just as easily produce a "top specialty school" rank list and it would include few of these "top primary care schools."
This is excluding those really top programs that are ranked high in both though right? Like UCSF, UCLA, Harvard...
 

thesauce

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I would actually suggest that the evaluation by residency directors in the US News methodology is the most useless part, and here's why. They group a smattering of residency directors across multiple specialties, with partial representation from some fields and not others. You have to realize that when one chooses a residency, one chooses the specialty first, and then applies within that specialty. And even within specialties, residencies are hardly homogeneous -- there are good programs and bad, those you might be interested in and those you wouldn't touch due to malignant culture. So, one couldn't care less what folks in another specialty think of your school, to the extent it plays a role (which it nearly doesn't). So a grouping of dissimilar fields each ranking a program based on their own experiences isn't useful. Nor are groupings of geographically dissimilar residency programs, or a big range of programs. You don't care what the medicine PDs in the South think about grads of your school if you are going to be applying to west coast surgery programs. Doesn't matter one iota. Garbage analysis for you. I really don't see how a grouping of 30 PDs in different fields and geographic locations who happened to be the PDs who returned the survey really should play a role in a useful ranking. Lets say the program gets a high score because the majority of fields other than the one you choose liked it, even though the sole responding PD in your target field actually gave the program a subpar grade. Does that mean you are helping yourself by following the final number while you only care about a small component of it. So not so useful after all. Now if they broke it down by individual specialties, then maybe you could glean some aspect of reputation (although a lot of this is driven not so much by the school but the perception of the alumni who came before you and went into the various residency programs). But as a lumped grouping, the data you care about gets averaged out a lot of the time.
I'd be interested in seeing the variation in PD's responses to these inquiries. If you got enough PDs responding, and they generally agreed (even across "specialty lines"), I think you might be able to draw some conclusions. However, my guess is that the variation is rather large.
 

mmmcdowe

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Exactly. Haha
why don't they just give us that D:
They do, if you pay. Everything that goes into the evaluation is what you buy when you purchase. Just go to the bookstore and pick of a US News Guide to Graduate schools. Flip through it and write down the numbers you want.