usc vs. ucsf for your future career

[sweetemo]

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predicament here, i'm getting inundated by people giving me the impression that ucsf is more prestigious versus usc but i can't really find a significant downside to either school that puts one definitely ahead of the other. one biggie is that does a ucsf degree really line you up for more advancement in the field further down the line?

has anyone heard whether grads from usc or ucsf are more represented in clinical versus retail? and what about higher management level positions, do you think a Pharm.D. from UCSF is more favorable for further advancement than usc?

 

[jky007]

i was under the general impression that ucsf is geared more towards clinical pharmacy, while usc is geared more towards retail. i am personally choosing ucsf over usc because of that, less tuition, excellent program, and the vast opportunities available at sf.

 

[sdn1977]

I'm a graduate of UCSF, however, I've worked with many USC graduates who have had educations similar to mine and I'd have no issue with trusting their judgement on anything pharmaceutically related.

I think the reason you might perceive the difference is for a couple of reasons. First, for a long time, UCSF received more funding for research than USC did - I haven't checked this data in awhile, but that was the case historically. Now, the reason this has any bearing on education of pharmacy students is that you might be exposed to seeing research medications being used, depending on the state of clinical trials they are in. Or, if research is your bent, you'd be exposed to folks with lots of experience. There is a big PhD program there in pharmaceutical chemistry as well. But...if thats not your thing...then its no big deal.

Second, historically, UCSF has been a huge proponent of "clinical" involvement. In my day, that meant becoming involved in cutting edge clinical opportunities. However, over time, most pharmacy schools have come to appreciate the usefullness of clinical pharmacy in every practice setting, so going to one of the "few" schools which did this is no longer an issue.

Third, one of the deans of UCSF was actually an FDA commissioner - Jeri Goyan was FDA commissioner for a few years during the 70's. This is only important now because of the political connections which were cemented many, many years ago. The faculty there is extremely knowledgable not only in basic pharmaceutical sciences, but also in the politics of state & federal pharmaceutical issues. You won't work in a vacuum, so being able to manuever here is valuable.

As for clinical positions - you'll do fine with either school. For administrative positions, I think you need an administrative residency after you graduate from either school. No matter your decision - you will have a firm foundation from either school. A USC graduate can give you more insight into their program & their history. I'm very proud of my education, however, I'd never discount or diminish the education that USC pharmacists receive - all my professional (& personal, for that matter) encounters with their graduates have been positive and rewarding!

Best of luck ahead! You'll have a great experience with either school!

 

[sweetemo]

yeah a few things about usc was that it seemed more people did opt for community pharm, whereas ucsf students were more focussed on clinical pharm, but there are those who were doing clinical or community at both schools.

the ucsf students got me worried with maybe ending up in fresno for an internship. a third year student told me that you do have to consider that you might have to move around. they don't guarantee that you will be able to do your 3rd and 4th year internships in SF. and first year of classes starts off with basic sciences review too, while usc gets started right into the therapeutics and clinical work first year. tuition ends up being about the same for me because of housing in sf being expensive, and in LA i can stay at home. also, it looks like the boards passing rates are very similar for the two exams, usc actually is a little bit higher.

so then the question is well what is the difference AFTERwards career-wise? any comments appreciated!

i was under the general impression that ucsf is geared more towards clinical pharmacy, while usc is geared more towards retail. i am personally choosing ucsf over usc because of that, less tuition, excellent program, and the vast opportunities available at sf.

 

[sweetemo]

great! thanks!

I'm a graduate of UCSF, however, I've worked with many USC graduates who have had educations similar to mine and I'd have no issue with trusting their judgement on anything pharmaceutically related.

I think the reason you might perceive the difference is for a couple of reasons. First, for a long time, UCSF received more funding for research than USC did - I haven't checked this data in awhile, but that was the case historically. Now, the reason this has any bearing on education of pharmacy students is that you might be exposed to seeing research medications being used, depending on the state of clinical trials they are in. Or, if research is your bent, you'd be exposed to folks with lots of experience. There is a big PhD program there in pharmaceutical chemistry as well. But...if thats not your thing...then its no big deal.

Second, historically, UCSF has been a huge proponent of "clinical" involvement. In my day, that meant becoming involved in cutting edge clinical opportunities. However, over time, most pharmacy schools have come to appreciate the usefullness of clinical pharmacy in every practice setting, so going to one of the "few" schools which did this is no longer an issue.

Third, one of the deans of UCSF was actually an FDA commissioner - Jeri Goyan was FDA commissioner for a few years during the 70's. This is only important now because of the political connections which were cemented many, many years ago. The faculty there is extremely knowledgable not only in basic pharmaceutical sciences, but also in the politics of state & federal pharmaceutical issues. You won't work in a vacuum, so being able to manuever here is valuable.

As for clinical positions - you'll do fine with either school. For administrative positions, I think you need an administrative residency after you graduate from either school. No matter your decision - you will have a firm foundation from either school. A USC graduate can give you more insight into their program & their history. I'm very proud of my education, however, I'd never discount or diminish the education that USC pharmacists receive - all my professional (& personal, for that matter) encounters with their graduates have been positive and rewarding!

Best of luck ahead! You'll have a great experience with either school!

 

[sdn1977]

Then there is the issue of where each is located...I grew up in S.CA so when I had the opportunity - I went to N.CA - did undergraduate in Davis then spent my early 20's in SF! What a wonderful city in which to be young. And yes....I did have enough free time - very late hours...but, then those were the hours the MD & DDS students kept 😉 I had to keep up 😀

 

[LuckyStar13]

yeah a few things about usc was that it seemed more people did opt for community pharm, whereas ucsf students were more focussed on clinical pharm, but there are those who were doing clinical or community at both schools.

the ucsf students got me worried with maybe ending up in fresno for an internship. a third year student told me that you do have to consider that you might have to move around. they don't guarantee that you will be able to do your 3rd and 4th year internships in SF. and first year of classes starts off with basic sciences review too, while usc gets started right into the therapeutics and clinical work first year. tuition ends up being about the same for me because of housing in sf being expensive, and in LA i can stay at home. also, it looks like the boards passing rates are very similar for the two exams, usc actually is a little bit higher.

so then the question is well what is the difference AFTERwards career-wise? any comments appreciated!

I am so glad that you started this thread. I am in the same situation as you are. I have been accepted to both schools and am deciding which school to attend. I am also from LA, so I can live at home to save on the rent if I attend USC. Please let me know which school you are attending and the reason, if you don't mind. I need major help in choosing between these 2 schools. Another question I have is that do UCSF grads usually end up working in N. CA or do they have a chance to do rotation in S. CA and end up getting a job down here? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! 🙂

 

[PixieAngel]

I am so glad that you started this thread. I am in the same situation as you are. I have been accepted to both schools and am deciding which school to attend. I am also from LA, so I can live at home to save on the rent if I attend USC. Please let me know which school you are attending and the reason, if you don't mind. I need major help in choosing between these 2 schools. Another question I have is that do UCSF grads usually end up working in N. CA or do they have a chance to do rotation in S. CA and end up getting a job down here? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! 🙂

Wow, congrats for your choices! If I was in your lucky lucky position...I would go to USC just because location is an important factor for me. Family support can be such a bliss especially during difficult times...and both schools seem to have excellent programs so I don't think you could go wrong with choosing either of them! I think if you go to UCSF, you could explore the research aspect of pharmacy since UCSF is an excellent research institution...USC's got tons of clinical trainings even for 1st year students (maybe more practical in a sense because UCSF rather focuses heavily on basic science in their 1st year...?) If you can commute to USC from home, you can even save rent fees and will have a nice hot meal waiting for you at the end of the day. 🙂

This is just my opinion though...good luck with your choice!

 

[swtSDgrl]

I am so glad that you started this thread. I am in the same situation as you are. I have been accepted to both schools and am deciding which school to attend. I am also from LA, so I can live at home to save on the rent if I attend USC. Please let me know which school you are attending and the reason, if you don't mind. I need major help in choosing between these 2 schools. Another question I have is that do UCSF grads usually end up working in N. CA or do they have a chance to do rotation in S. CA and end up getting a job down here? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! 🙂

Hi LuckyStar,

Congrats on your acceptances. I agree with major of the people here that both UCSF and USC are great schools. I think you have to decide what kind of pharmacy you want to go into, clinical or retail, and that will help decide. As for the rotations, I believe UCSF don't want their students to stay around the SF. I know a lot of pharmacist who attended UCSF that did all their rotations in SD. I know you are worried about trying to save money on rent while living at home but in the long run, it's not going to make much of a difference. If you've never left LA, going to SF might be a good experience. SF has so much character and a culture that so different than LA. Regardless of which school you go to, you're not going to have a problem finding a job in So. Cal. Good luck. Hopefully, I'll see you in SF.

 

[swtSDgrl]

Oh one more thing...I think you'll be paying about the same amount, if not a bit more for attending USC and living at home (depending on your lifestyle away from home). You can check out the links. UCSF has a tuiton of about 20k for they year, and USC is about 35k. This doesn't include rent, food, books, etc... I think rent and food should be around 15k/yr.

UCSF Tuition
http://saawww.ucsf.edu/admission/pharmfees.html

USC Tuition
http://www.usc.edu/schools/pharmacy/pharmd/admission/tuition.html#tuition

Goodluck. I hope this helps with you decision. 🙂

 

[sdn1977]

Hi LuckyStar,

Congrats on your acceptances. I agree with major of the people here that both UCSF and USC are great schools. I think you have to decide what kind of pharmacy you want to go into, clinical or retail, and that will help decide. As for the rotations, I believe UCSF don't want their students to stay around the SF. I know a lot of pharmacist who attended UCSF that did all their rotations in SD. I know you are worried about trying to save money on rent while living at home but in the long run, it's not going to make much of a difference. If you've never left LA, going to SF might be a good experience. SF has so much character and a culture that so different than LA. Regardless of which school you go to, you're not going to have a problem finding a job in So. Cal. Good luck. Hopefully, I'll see you in SF.

There is just one misconception here. I don't think UCSF doesn't WANT their students to stay in SF - there are lots of opportunities in SF. The VA is wonderful for surgery, SF General is great for both surgery & medicine, Kaiser is great for pediatrics, oncology is at Mt Zion & UC. UC is wonderful for medicine, psych & surgery. I know some students choose to do all their rotations in SF. San Diego offers such great alternatives because so many of the faculty who started that program came from UCSF so they have the same philosophy. Its also a fairly inexpensive way to experience the south coast for a short while if you live on the north coast. Variety in cinical experience can only be an advantage, IMO.

 

[LuckyStar13]

Oh one more thing...I think you'll be paying about the same amount, if not a bit more for attending USC and living at home (depending on your lifestyle away from home). You can check out the links. UCSF has a tuiton of about 20k for they year, and USC is about 35k. This doesn't include rent, food, books, etc... I think rent and food should be around 15k/yr.

UCSF Tuition
http://saawww.ucsf.edu/admission/pharmfees.html

USC Tuition
http://www.usc.edu/schools/pharmacy/pharmd/admission/tuition.html#tuition

Goodluck. I hope this helps with you decision. 🙂

PixieAngel and SwtSDgrl, Thanks for your advice. 😀 I will take them into consideration. I know both are great schools. I am leaning toward clinical, so I kind of want to go to UCSF. BUT at the same time, I am concern about moving to a completely new city, where I have to worry about where to live, how to take the public transportation (I probably won't take my car w/ me to SF), etc...
aaahhhhh...it's really difficult to make a decision like this... 😕

 

[swtSDgrl]

PixieAngel and SwtSDgrl, Thanks for your advice. 😀 I will take them into consideration. I know both are great schools. I am leaning toward clinical, so I kind of want to go to UCSF. BUT at the same time, I am concern about moving to a completely new city, where I have to worry about where to live, how to take the public transportation (I probably won't take my car w/ me to SF), etc...
aaahhhhh...it's really difficult to make a decision like this... 😕

I'm scared too, and I bet you a lot of other people feel the same way. SF will also be completely new to me, and I won't be bringing my car and have to learn have to use public transportation too. If this is the only reason why you are considering not going to UCSF, I think you might regret it later. You never know; you might just fall in love with SF.

Don't let fear hold you back; you know what's best. Goodluck

 

[AngelEyes82]

PixieAngel and SwtSDgrl, Thanks for your advice. 😀 I will take them into consideration. I know both are great schools. I am leaning toward clinical, so I kind of want to go to UCSF. BUT at the same time, I am concern about moving to a completely new city, where I have to worry about where to live, how to take the public transportation (I probably won't take my car w/ me to SF), etc...
aaahhhhh...it's really difficult to make a decision like this... 😕

First of all, congratulations on all your acceptances! I'm a P1 at SF right now and I just wanted you to know that it's perfectly normal to be a little apprehensive about moving and the whole change of environment. I have to admit that it's taken me a while to get used to San Francisco. The plus side is that I guarantee you that majority of your classmates will be feeling the same sort of thing, since chances are most of your classmates won't be from the Bay Area originally either (incidentally, more than half of my class is originally from SoCal). So it's kinda cool because it's almost like you have a built-in support system. 🙂

And don't worry...you'll master the SF MUNI (i.e. the public transportation system) in no time! 😀

 

[RachGator]

First of all, congratulations on all your acceptances! I'm a P1 at SF right now and I just wanted you to know that it's perfectly normal to be a little apprehensive about moving and the whole change of environment. I have to admit that it's taken me a while to get used to San Francisco. The plus side is that I guarantee you that majority of your classmates will be feeling the same sort of thing, since chances are most of your classmates won't be from the Bay Area originally either (incidentally, more than half of my class is originally from SoCal). So it's kinda cool because it's almost like you have a built-in support system. 🙂

And don't worry...you'll master the SF MUNI (i.e. the public transportation system) in no time! 😀

I too am a bit apprehensive about moving all the way to SF from Florida. The cost of living is so high and I'll only be able to come home 2-3 times a year. One GREAT thing about San Fransico was the public transportation. I pretty much figured out BART and MUNI in a few days and the free transfers were a plus. I can't help but be greatful that other people are also concerned and worried about big moves, which to choose, and how to pay for living. No one I know (other than a few classmates who want to stay in state and know even less about the admissions process than me) is going into pharmacy. I felt so alone with all of this until I found everyone here. I know that many of us are competing for the same spots at many schools, but, with a few exceptions, I have found people really supportive and look forward to working with you all in the future. (If I go to SF, I guess I'll have to erradicate "y'all" from my vocab 😀 ).

 

[sweetemo]

I started this thread hoping to hear everyone's point of view and I'm glad there are others who are in the same boat as me trying to decide!

I am one of the "nontraditional" older students getting into pharmacy after being in a biopharm research career for about 8years, i'll be 29 when i enter pharm school. i've moved around already, went to college in Cal and lived in Boston for a few years too. I am starting to get more established in LA, my SO is here and we are planning marriage and my family is all living in LA too. Not being as young as I once was I think I'd rather keep my roots in Los Angeles and get established in the hospitals/academia in LA for my pharmacy career after pharm school. So USC is a great fit, but UCSF seems like such a great opportunity that I can't let go of it yet. the decision is difficult.

UCSF has a beautiful campus with incredible views of the golden gate bridge and the presidio. and I was sold on their gym there. but damn it was cold in SF and after I came home from my interview I had a cold for a few weeks.

Not meaning to cause flames here so take this with a grain of salt: my *superficial* impression-- like if I were a job recruiter evaluating a candidate after ten minutes of talking -- was that the students at UCSF were more laid back/mellow/conservative/academic types, while USC students seemed more like the LA types who gave off a slightly more professional almost businesslike attitude. While UCSF students all seemed very bright and nice and hard-working and humanitarian, USC students seemed professional and competent who went out to party at night/play hard-work hard ethic, and focussed on getting ahead. This also made me think a little about where do I fit in most, or where would I like to be, I couldn't really decide on this one. There were plusses and minusses both ways. So I figured it didn't matter to me with regard to the schools, but it was an interesting contrast that I noticed from my encounters, and I am sure that not everyone out of all the students are the same at all.

I did ask about research at UCSF since someone mentioned research is more of an opportunity at UCSF earlier in this thread. a P3 who intervied me at UCSF mentioned that no one, maybe 1 or 2 students were in the pharmaceutical sciences pathway for their year. the PhD faculty who interviewed me admitted that none of his lab members were in the pharmacy school. the USC student who interviewed me seemed really bent on community pharmacy and working a lot of hours during school it seemed, and there wasn't much talk at all about research. so pharm school at both USC and UCSF is about community or clinical for the majority.

I am leaning for USC now mostly for location. I think cost wise the difference isn't great enough to be a difficulty in the long run, since I have no housing costs if I stay in LA. After going to public schools and being in the UC system, I would like to try going to a private institution for once, USC seems to really take care of their students and prep them for life afterwards. I admit its a little freaky though how USC really brainwashes everyone to network network network and always emphasize that they pride themselves in their network and their "family". But it must really be true because everyone there attests to the availability of all their faculty and admin and grads all say that USC takes care of their own. and I figure that after being a closet nerd stuck in a laboratory all this time that maybe its good to work on being social in this way.

So when I write all the pros and cons down it seems like USC is the winner for me. But what's holding me back is if I am going to miss out on something in SF. I think partly I have to admit I am influenced by my close family members being so impressed with the UCSF name and urging me to pick UCSF when I feel that USC might be a better choice for my life now. At this point its like I am trying to choose between two name-brands, what name do I want stuck on my diploma and is it going to affect me after pharm school -- its very silly I admit. Commitment issues I guess.

I too am a bit apprehensive about moving all the way to SF from Florida. The cost of living is so high and I'll only be able to come home 2-3 times a year. One GREAT thing about San Fransico was the public transportation. I pretty much figured out BART and MUNI in a few days and the free transfers were a plus. I can't help but be greatful that other people are also concerned and worried about big moves, which to choose, and how to pay for living. No one I know (other than a few classmates who want to stay in state and know even less about the admissions process than me) is going into pharmacy. I felt so alone with all of this until I found everyone here. I know that many of us are competing for the same spots at many schools, but, with a few exceptions, I have found people really supportive and look forward to working with you all in the future. (If I go to SF, I guess I'll have to erradicate "y'all" from my vocab 😀 ).

 

[sweetemo]

Hi LuckyStar13,

I think when moving to a new school that you'll do great. Its harder to move somewhere all alone for a new job, but if you are going to school, you will get immersed really quickly and there will be a LOT of people involved in adjusting to a new city too, you will do great!

I remember when I had to move, I was usually always really apprehensive, even at the last minute thought about pulling the plug on moving. It was really easy to adjust to a move when going to a new school though with a lot of new students, and it feels better once you get settled into your routine. when I moved for a job, everyone was married or settled in with whatever social circles they were in, no-one was new like me so for about a year it was tough to find friends, I racked up the long-distance phone calls then 🙂. it won't be like this when you go to school at all I am sure.

If you are still feeling apprehensive, and only feel more and more apprehensive about moving, you know that you have a choice. Try and decide that you will just bite the bullet and say you'll face it and you will do great and you'll roll with the punches, OR decide its better for me to take care of myself and stay near my home because I will do better this way. Either way it is a RIGHT decision because you are doing it for yourself and because you know what's best. Take the initiative and don't let your fear take control, don't let your decisions be based on fear! 🙂

PixieAngel and SwtSDgrl, Thanks for your advice. 😀 I will take them into consideration. I know both are great schools. I am leaning toward clinical, so I kind of want to go to UCSF. BUT at the same time, I am concern about moving to a completely new city, where I have to worry about where to live, how to take the public transportation (I probably won't take my car w/ me to SF), etc...
aaahhhhh...it's really difficult to make a decision like this... 😕

 

[RachGator]

Like Sweetemo, I can completely unserstand where she is coming from with being stuck on UCSF's name and reputation. I keep thinking I will be missing out on this top education if I don't go there. For undergrad, I let the lure of a free ride at UF keep me from going to Cornell or Chapel Hill and I regretted it so much. I don't want regrets again by not going to UCSF or another top 5 school.

I also have a good reason not to go to UF. My former SO is in Gainesville and we always get back together and break up. I don't think I can handle that again. I'll be too busy for that sort of drama. It may seem silly but Gainesville has so many ghosts of my past still around .

I am just hoping to go to UT, fall in love with it, get in as a non-resident, and move there. Otherwise, it is really tough decision time. UF has the PharmD/JD program while UCSF has the name.

I just have to try to follow the "Change is Challenge not a Threat" line of thinking.

 

[RachGator]

🙂 Sweetemo and anyone else, follow your heart. Both schools are great. If you are religious you can always pray for guidance. That is what I am doing.

 

[cdpiano27]

UCSF is the best clinical school in the nation. Period. Hands down!

 

[sweetemo]

thanks Rachgator 🙂 I think a little time will help sort it out.

I do try to make decisions thoroughly so I have no regrets. sometimes I do think too bad but back at the time and place I did make a decision it was the best one I could make at the time, and it helps to remember the reasons I had then. dwelling never helps. life will always throw something at you every now and then so no use making it tougher on yourself.

UF is a really great school though, do you want to move to california? where did you want to practice after pharm school? do you think this is a potential factor to consider in choosing between UF and UCSF? how do you like SF versus Florida?

I tend to prefer the warmer weather 🙂

🙂 Sweetemo and anyone else, follow your heart. Both schools are great. If you are religious you can always pray for guidance. That is what I am doing.

 

[RachGator]

thanks Rachgator 🙂 I think a little time will help sort it out.

I do try to make decisions thoroughly so I have no regrets. sometimes I do think too bad but back at the time and place I did make a decision it was the best one I could make at the time, and it helps to remember the reasons I had then. dwelling never helps. life will always throw something at you every now and then so no use making it tougher on yourself.

UF is a really great school though, do you want to move to california? where did you want to practice after pharm school? do you think this is a potential factor to consider in choosing between UF and UCSF? how do you like SF versus Florida?

I tend to prefer the warmer weather 🙂

I am open to practicing anywhere in the coastal US (and maybe a nice city like Austin) but I too and more inclined toward warmer weather. Just one thing about Florida warm versus California warm, Florida warm means high 80s and 90% humidity and rain nearly everyday in the summer. It is like being in a sauna constanly. Give me LA warm any day! As long as San Fran doesn't get with snow and ice, I can handle it.

The people in SF were pretty cool. I liked being a in a big city that felt like a small city. I think what is holding me back is the cost of living and not being able to come home hardly at all.

I think I may want to go into something with pharmacogenomics and research early in my career (UCSF would be great for this) and end up teaching pharm, especially pharm law(UF Pharm D/JD would be great for this), later. I guess I can always got to get my PharmD doa residency and then go to Law school. It would only be an extra year (but I'll be 36 when i am done!!!!).

 

[LuckyStar13]

Hi LuckyStar13,

I think when moving to a new school that you'll do great. Its harder to move somewhere all alone for a new job, but if you are going to school, you will get immersed really quickly and there will be a LOT of people involved in adjusting to a new city too, you will do great!

I remember when I had to move, I was usually always really apprehensive, even at the last minute thought about pulling the plug on moving. It was really easy to adjust to a move when going to a new school though with a lot of new students, and it feels better once you get settled into your routine. when I moved for a job, everyone was married or settled in with whatever social circles they were in, no-one was new like me so for about a year it was tough to find friends, I racked up the long-distance phone calls then 🙂. it won't be like this when you go to school at all I am sure.

If you are still feeling apprehensive, and only feel more and more apprehensive about moving, you know that you have a choice. Try and decide that you will just bite the bullet and say you'll face it and you will do great and you'll roll with the punches, OR decide its better for me to take care of myself and stay near my home because I will do better this way. Either way it is a RIGHT decision because you are doing it for yourself and because you know what's best. Take the initiative and don't let your fear take control, don't let your decisions be based on fear! 🙂

Wow..thanks everyone for your kind words and support. I was really touched when I read all the replies. 😍 Now I think about it, I should really go to UCSF. I should face the challenge and don't let my fear of new environment holds me back. Recently, I have been asking myself, "how many times will I be accepted to the best school in the nation?" and it seems like this will be my only chance, at least for now. So I don't want to regret later on in my life. Thanks again!!!!! 🙂