USMA vs Duke ROTC and Future Branch Advice

[BossIsland0]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on whether to go to Duke on a 4-year AROTC scholarship or West Point. I know, many of you may have seen questions like this one in other forums and are about to roll your eyes. Here's the catch: I want to go to medical school, but not until after doing some amount of time in a combat arms branch (I'm heavily leaning towards infantry). To me, this would a) give me a break from school and allow me to spend at least some of my prime doing things other than studying/stressing and b) give me valuable maturity, perspective, and experience through troop leadership. Also, I do plan on taking another ADSO through the HPSP scholarship or USUHS and later transitioning into the reserves. I recognize the risk in the "needs of the Army" changing while I am in the service.

A couple of questions:
1. Is this path even possible? I know I'm making things more difficult than they should be, but I truly value service as a combat arms officer (it's a generational thing too).
2. From your perspectives, which school would help more in the application process to medical school if I did happen to follow this plan?

Thanks for entertaining this pipe-dream of mine.

-Mark


Quick update:

I spoke on the phone with one of my father’s friends; he is a USMA grad and now an orthopaedic physician. I think he made me realize that while USMA certainly is doable (I was already prepared for the ho-ah stuff anyway), Duke would be a better way to slap my name down on some research. Both are great options, but USMA’s goal is to create strong combat arms officers, not future physicians.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Edit: Thanks for all of the great replies! I appreciate the civil input and sharing of experiences!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DeadCactus]

It's definitely possible and I think most people here would support it if you've done the soul searching and have decided that's the path you want to go. Plenty of people have totally unrelated careers prior to entering medical school. The forum generally rolls its eyes at people who want to take an ROTC or USMA scholarship but go directly into medical school; that path is a much poorer choice.

The main challenge is going to be maintaining a competitive GPA and extracurriculars with the additional burden you'll already have in relation to West Point or ROTC requirements. The other problem people run into is prereq courses and MCAT scores expiring though this might be less of a problem since you are planning from the start to enter medical school after your duty obligation. You'll have to look into it or hope someone who remembers how long those courses and scores are valid for.

Duke and USMA are both great schools, neither is going to hold you back. This is just going to come down to what kind of undergraduate experience you want. I don't think either has an advantage in terms of medical school applications. There is definitely an advantage to the USMA network within the military. Duke would have better networking in the medical field but I doubt you'll benefit from that as an undergraduate not going directly to medical school.

 

[SirGecko]

Duke is a good school to be a premed from. (Though take any acceptance percentages with a grain of salt as the only way schools like Duke get those numbers is by actively dissuading people they don’t think will make it from applying to medical school) That said remember that ROTC is a significant burden during school and it will negativity impact your ability to study/ optimize your academic career at some point. Your college experience will be *very* different at West Point so I would make sure you know what that means. It shouldn’t negatively impact your ability to apply for medical school any more that ROTC would.

 

[armytrainingsir]

My best friend in internship was a USMA grad and armor officer (and all the hooah army merit badges to go with that )before going to medical school. Great guy and great doc.
So that part is definitely doable.

If you are 100% committed to a career in the Army, then USMA, hands down. Either school will get you 'ready' for medical school, but USMA will continually come into play during your 20+ years in the Army.

Good luck, regardless which path you choose. (Or which path chooses you! )

 

[usma05]

I'd say a better adjective to use instead of 'poorer' is 'harder' for those going straight through...but I'll admit I'm biased.

Both are great schools and historically set people up for success if they worked hard and did well. But they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. It depends on what environment you flourish in. If you want a college experience with some good experiences on the side I'd say ROTC. If you have a slight sadistic underbelly and a glutton for something akin but not exactly like a 24/7 365 days/year 48 month experience...USMA may be for you. The best advice I could give you would be to visit campus and spend time with cadets/undergrads at each place to see where you best fit, but that unfortunately will be a challenge for the foreseeable future in this social distant/flatten the curve world we live in.

 

[BossIsland0]

I'd say a better adjective to use instead of 'poorer' is 'harder' for those going straight through...but I'll admit I'm biased.

Both are great schools and historically set people up for success if they worked hard and did well. But they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. It depends on what environment you flourish in. If you want a college experience with some good experiences on the side I'd say ROTC. If you have a slight sadistic underbelly and a glutton for something akin but not exactly like a 24/7 365 days/year 48 month experience...USMA may be for you. The best advice I could give you would be to visit campus and spend time with cadets/undergrads at each place to see where you best fit, but that unfortunately will be a challenge for the foreseeable future in this social distant/flatten the curve world we live in.

Thanks for you input. I have visited both campuses and can envision myself at both, but I do like the ability to intern at the Duke hospital during the school year (it’s only a 5 minute walk from the campus).

 

[washboardEarth]

intern at the Duke hospital during the school year (it’s only a 5 minute walk from the campus).

this means nothing. do not let this sway your decision.

 

[BossIsland0]

this means nothing. do not let this sway your decision.

Noted

 

[SirGecko]

The benefit of being at a school like Duke definitely isn’t the shadowing as noted above. You can do that anywhere. The research opportunities can be pretty good but you need the time and inclination to take advantage of them. (And as I said ROTC is a significant time commitment so keep that in mind) The downside to getting real into research though is that if you decide you love it your military commitment just put that on hold for at least a few years. Just be aware that you can’t do everything, you will have to compromise somewhere. So just make sure you really asses for yourself what the important stuff is and focus on that.

 

[washboardEarth]

The decision on USMA vs Duke really depends on what kind of person you are. If you played multiple sports or had leadership positions in drama/band in HS, extroverted, conventionally attractive, etc etc and have the "X-factor" where people generally like you and want to be around you then you will go farther than you can imagine being a USMA grad. Duke can also set you up for success but you need those factors on top of publish in something like NEJM / Nature and get Chairs of Departments fawning over you, otherwise you will just be another smart kid applying to med school from another good school. Military academy graduates if they don't end their careers as Boeing captains go onto retire from senior positions in government and Fortune 500 companies. You won't get the "college experience" as much but there will be plenty of tail (and it'll be chasing you, instead) as you rise the ranks.

 

[ArmyTiger]

I did the USMA to med school route, with a brief stop in Iraq based field artillery land. It's definitely doable, but know that you're competing with ostensibly 1200 other cadets, realistically 100 other cadets for 20ish spots. The biological education is par to sub-par, the chemistry is above average, and the remainder above average to superb. Just know that USMA is buily mostly for civil/mech engineers, then for officers, and very lastly for medical students. You'll graduate really good at running 2 miles and setting up a patrol base, but the rest is on you.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

 

[BossIsland0]

I did the USMA to med school route, with a brief stop in Iraq based field artillery land. It's definitely doable, but know that you're competing with ostensibly 1200 other cadets, realistically 100 other cadets for 20ish spots. The biological education is par to sub-par, the chemistry is above average, and the remainder above average to superb. Just know that USMA is buily mostly for civil/mech engineers, then for officers, and very lastly for medical students. You'll graduate really good at running 2 miles and setting up a patrol base, but the rest is on you.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

That’s what I believed and have recently been told. I have nothing against USMA (and was dead-set on it until 2 months ago), but their main purpose is to create Combat Arms officers.

While I would like to do that for a few years and gain experience I can get nowhere else, I would eventually like to transition to being a physician in the Army Medical Corps. After that, I can evaluate what to do next.

Thanks for your input!

 

[orbitsurgMD]

If you are serious about medical school, go to Duke. It is a great university and will have more on offer than you will need to get to medical school. I am not criticizing the USMA. Their opportunities are fine, but their purpose foremost is to prepare officers for the U.S. Army, not to prepare college students for graduate studies. The USMA is not a university proper, at least not in any way that a large, well-endowed and comprehensive institution like Duke is, no large graduate school, no professional schools, no research institutions, think tanks or hospitals.

 

[Oh No]

I took a 4 years Army ROTC scholarship to a similarly prestigious university. Then went into Active duty Field Artillery. No one else knew my plan-- so got to go to airborne, Ranger schools and awesome units. Served my time, then got out and went to med school. (Took MCATs while at Fort Sill). No regrets. Great experiences and memories.

Consider 4 yr obligation ROTC vs 5 yr for USMA (unless it has changed)

If you go ROTC : Go all in. Excell. Don't be that guy who is going to go to med school. Rah, Rah, Rah! Request Combat arms branch, if that fires you up. (That is what where the military spends its money) As soon as your commander knows you are getting out, no more cool leadership positions for you. (They made me a staff puke my last year in).

One more thing. Undergraduate research is over rated. Just HAMMER your premed requirements. Major in whatever interests you (philosophy or history or whatever). But HAMMER your premed requirements. Every one. All A's. It won't be easy. No excuses. Discipline. Study Harder!

Best wishes.

 

[BossIsland0]

I took a 4 years Army ROTC scholarship to a similarly prestigious university. Then went into Active duty Field Artillery. No one else knew my plan-- so got to go to airborne, Ranger schools and awesome units. Served my time, then got out and went to med school. (Took MCATs while at Fort Sill). No regrets. Great experiences and memories.

Consider 4 yr obligation ROTC vs 5 yr for USMA (unless it has changed)

If you go ROTC : Go all in. Excell. Don't be that guy who is going to go to med school. Rah, Rah, Rah! Request Combat arms branch, if that fires you up. (That is what where the military spends its money) As soon as your commander knows you are getting out, no more cool leadership positions for you. (They made me a staff puke my last year in).

One more thing. Undergraduate research is over rated. Just HAMMER your premed requirements. Major in whatever interests you (philosophy or history or whatever). But HAMMER your premed requirements. Every one. All A's. It won't be easy. No excuses. Discipline. Study Harder!

Best wishes.

This is by far one of the most inspirational posts I’ve read.

FA is definitely on the list, but I would like to use/break my body through infantry (and do ABN, AASLT, Ranger, and maybe RASP).
-yolo *crunch* *snap* *pop*

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I took a 4 years Army ROTC scholarship to a similarly prestigious university. Then went into Active duty Field Artillery. No one else knew my plan-- so got to go to airborne, Ranger schools and awesome units. Served my time, then got out and went to med school. (Took MCATs while at Fort Sill). No regrets. Great experiences and memories.

Consider 4 yr obligation ROTC vs 5 yr for USMA (unless it has changed)

If you go ROTC : Go all in. Excell. Don't be that guy who is going to go to med school. Rah, Rah, Rah! Request Combat arms branch, if that fires you up. (That is what where the military spends its money) As soon as your commander knows you are getting out, no more cool leadership positions for you. (They made me a staff puke my last year in).

One more thing. Undergraduate research is over rated. Just HAMMER your premed requirements. Major in whatever interests you (philosophy or history or whatever). But HAMMER your premed requirements. Every one. All A's. It won't be easy. No excuses. Discipline. Study Harder!

Best wishes.

This is important. You must do well and particularly in your science requirements. You must pound your MCATS. I went to a nationally well-regarded university and did well there. That isn't enough. I also majored in government, political theory, which is just a nice way of saying philosophy. It has been useful in the thinking and writing benefits. What mattered is that I hammered on my sciences and also on my MCATS. Do Kaplan prep or something similar. Take as many practice tests as you can. I don't think I can emphasize that enough.

 

[BossIsland0]

This is important. You must do well and particularly in your science requirements. You must pound your MCATS. I went to a nationally well-regarded university and did well there. That isn't enough. I also majored in government, political theory, which is just a nice way of saying philosophy. It has been useful in the thinking and writing benefits. What mattered is that I hammered on my sciences and also on my MCATS. Do Kaplan prep or something similar. Take as many practice tests as you can. I don't think I can emphasize that enough.

Noted.

The MCAT is what I’m really focusing on.

In case you’re wondering:
As far as classes go, I plan to major in either biochemistry or biomedical engineering, providing a lot of pre-med overlap. While I could throw AP credit from 13+ AP exams (most of which are 5s), I don’t want to. On top of that, I had a perfect GPA throughout HS (a few of my friends are also going to Duke too). The cherry on top is that I already have clinical shadowing hours in orthopedics and pain management and plan to intern this summer at UNC teaching hospital (if this whole COVID-19 blows over).

-Just realized that I’m bragging to people with 10+ years of experience on me. Welp, I’m about to get dunked on...

 

[backrow]

-Just realized that I’m bragging to people with 10+ years of experience on me. Welp, I’m about to get dunked on...

Many are probably close to double that number .



Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[armytrainingsir]

-Just realized that I’m bragging to people with 10+ years of experience on me. Welp, I’m about to get dunked on...

LOL, I am more than old enough to be your dad.

Your youthful enthusiasm is fun to see and nothing to be ashamed about among friends.

 

[Per5everance]

USMA. Most admission committees will see it as a big positive and something that sets you apart from other applicants.