USMLE scores for Canadian residencies?

[yowhatup]

Being an AMG (from an LCME school), can I apply for Canadian residencies with a USMLE score, or will I have to take a Canadian licensing exam?

Are physician salaries MUCH lower in Canada as compared to USA? In terms of USA dollars, how much on average would ER physicians earn in Canada, with ER physician salary in USA being around 225 K I believe.

I am a US Citizen. If I cannot get a Canadian residency in ER but complete an ER residency here in the US, will the residency be accredited by Canadian medical boards, or is there a chance I will have to go through training again in Canada?

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[Qex]

Canada has 3 exams you need to pass, just like the USMLEs. You also need two years minimum in a Canadian residency. For this you need to sign up for the Canadian match (CaRMS), which is hyper competive for IMGs (anyone who didn't graduate from a Canadian medical school), since there are only enough spaces for the Canadian grads, and not much left over for IMGs.

There are programs for IMGs which lead towards a licence without going through the match, but they vary by province, and are still very competitive; you'd be best to get in touch with the medical schools in the province you'd want to live in.

A lot of people just work in the US, and then drive across the border to their home in Canada. 75% of Canadians do live within 50-100 miles of a US border, anyways.

 

[yowhatup]

Canada has 3 exams you need to pass, just like the USMLEs. You also need two years minimum in a Canadian residency. For this you need to sign up for the Canadian match (CaRMS), which is hyper competive for IMGs (anyone who didn't graduate from a Canadian medical school), since there are only enough spaces for the Canadian grads, and not much left over for IMGs.

There are programs for IMGs which lead towards a licence without going through the match, but they vary by province, and are still very competitive; you'd be best to get in touch with the medical schools in the province you'd want to live in.

A lot of people just work in the US, and then drive across the border to their home in Canada. 75% of Canadians do live within 50-100 miles of a US border, anyways.

that is a very smart idea....

when I take for example USMLE, can I register for the Canadian exams... the USMLE score does not substitute for these Canadian exams?

Finally, while it is possible to commute from canada to an american city, what is the average salary of an ER physician in Canada?

 

[Acherona]

The first part of the LMCC (canadian boards) is taken at the end of the fourth year of medical school. It is therefore not required to apply to residency for canadian students, though the rules may be different for foreign grads. Canadian residencies don't care about the USMLE. Their selection criteria are clinical grades and who-you-know.

Canada is not as open as the US to foreigners. You will have a tough time getting into an ER residency as an American. The salaries are comparable. You can google it. An alternative route to ER in Canada is to do a 2yr family medicine residency and then a "fellowship" in ER which enables you to work in a community-setting ER.

 

[Zuckman]

Hey yowhatup,

You are NOT considered an IMG with regards to matching in Canada since you'll be graduating from an American school. As long as your school is accredited by the LCME, you will not be considered an IMG. LCME accredited schools include MD American schools, Canadian schools, and Puerto Rican schools. This makes matching much easier. You can match into Carms in the 1st round meaning that there are many spots available to you.

**However, almost all positions in the match are reserved for Canadian citizens/permanent residents. This is true for even the 'IMG positions' which are mostly in the 2nd round. I think McGill might have some positions reserved for Americans..but it's best to check out the Carms website.

The salaries aren't as low in Canada as many Americans think. In fact, doctors in Canada often make similar salaries as their American counterparts. Doctors in Canada are among the highest paid in the world. Also, the health care system is such that you won't have to deal with huge malpractice fees and insurance companies.

With respect to foreigners entering Canada...Canada is very open to foreigners in general. Canada is amazingly multicultural with 25% of the population born outside Canada. HOWEVER, the medical field has become very closed to foreign trained physicians. The doctors in Canada have been able to protect their turf very well by making it very difficult for foreign physicians to work in Canada. However, American trained physicians are not considered 'foreign' and have few hurdles to pass. That means if you've done medical school in the US and are a Canadian citizen/permanent resident then you'll be able to match into Carms without much trouble. Also, if you do an American ACGME accredited residency, it WILL be accepted in Canada. You will be 'board eligible' to write the Canadian board exam and that's all you'll have to write. You don't have to redo training. IF your American residency is shorter than the Canadian one, you'll likely have to do that extra year in Canada. For example, an ER residency is 5 years in Canada and 4 years in the US. The US trained doctor will have to do an extra year in Canada before working in Canada.

In Ontario, the USMLE will be counted as equivalent to the Canadian licensing exams. However, this is not the case in other provinces at the moment. This may change though. This has to do with LICENSING and not MATCHING though. Canadian residency programs don't look at licensing exams for matching. Matching generally depends on connections and letters of reference.

To become an ER doctor in Canada you can do 1 of 2 paths:
1) do a 5 year ER residency
2) do a 2 year family med residency and then do a 1 extra year in ER. This is commonly called a '2 + 1'.
A good forum for Canadian medical students (and premeds) is here:
http://www.premed101.com/forums/

Hope that helps!

 

[yowhatup]

Hey yowhatup,

You are NOT considered an IMG with regards to matching in Canada since you'll be graduating from an American school. As long as your school is accredited by the LCME, you will not be considered an IMG. LCME accredited schools include MD American schools, Canadian schools, and Puerto Rican schools. This makes matching much easier. You can match into Carms in the 1st round meaning that there are many spots available to you.

**However, almost all positions in the match are reserved for Canadian citizens/permanent residents. This is true for even the 'IMG positions' which are mostly in the 2nd round. I think McGill might have some positions reserved for Americans..but it's best to check out the Carms website.

The salaries aren't as low in Canada as many Americans think. In fact, doctors in Canada often make similar salaries as their American counterparts. Doctors in Canada are among the highest paid in the world. Also, the health care system is such that you won't have to deal with huge malpractice fees and insurance companies.

With respect to foreigners entering Canada...Canada is very open to foreigners in general. Canada is amazingly multicultural with 25% of the population born outside Canada. HOWEVER, the medical field has become very closed to foreign trained physicians. The doctors in Canada have been able to protect their turf very well by making it very difficult for foreign physicians to work in Canada. However, American trained physicians are not considered 'foreign' and have few hurdles to pass. That means if you've done medical school in the US and are a Canadian citizen/permanent resident then you'll be able to match into Carms without much trouble. Also, if you do an American ACGME accredited residency, it WILL be accepted in Canada. You will be 'board eligible' to write the Canadian board exam and that's all you'll have to write. You don't have to redo training. IF your American residency is shorter than the Canadian one, you'll likely have to do that extra year in Canada. For example, an ER residency is 5 years in Canada and 4 years in the US. The US trained doctor will have to do an extra year in Canada before working in Canada.

In Ontario, the USMLE will be counted as equivalent to the Canadian licensing exams. However, this is not the case in other provinces at the moment. This may change though. This has to do with LICENSING and not MATCHING though. Canadian residency programs don't look at licensing exams for matching. Matching generally depends on connections and letters of reference.

To become an ER doctor in Canada you can do 1 of 2 paths:
1) do a 5 year ER residency
2) do a 2 year family med residency and then do a 1 extra year in ER. This is commonly called a '2 + 1'.
A good forum for Canadian medical students (and premeds) is here:
http://www.premed101.com/forums/

Hope that helps!

Thank you for your helpful response. I will be graduating from an LCME accredited American Medical school. But I am a US citizen. Will it be hard to match into Canadian residencies, being a US Citizen? Do a lot of US AMG's (who are US citizens) apply to Canadian residencies?

If that does not work and I do not match into Canadian residency, and I do ER residency here is US, I will have to complete the 5th year in Canada? I want to live in Vancouver, so obviously I will apply to ER residency there. Would USMLE scores suffice there or would I have to take Canadian licensing exams to get ER residency in Vancouver?

 

[Zuckman]

Hey yowhatsup,

From what I know, since you are not Canadian/permanent resident, it may not be easy. I'm not even sure if it's possible really. Check the Carms site:
http://www.carms.ca/eng/index.shtml

I don't think a lot of Americans apply to Canadian residencies because there are so many residency spots in the US. Most Americans don't want to leave their country and many have a distorted view of the Canadian health care system. Also, from what I know, most Canadian residency spots are reserved for Canadians/permanent residents.

BC right now doesn't accept USMLEs as equivalent to the Canadian licensing exams. The Canadians have to write 2 steps rather than 3. From what I understand, you'll have to write the Canadian steps to be board eligible for BC.

ZUck

 

[yowhatup]

Hey yowhatsup,

From what I know, since you are not Canadian/permanent resident, it may not be easy. I'm not even sure if it's possible really. Check the Carms site:
http://www.carms.ca/eng/index.shtml

I don't think a lot of Americans apply to Canadian residencies because there are so many residency spots in the US. Most Americans don't want to leave their country and many have a distorted view of the Canadian health care system. Also, from what I know, most Canadian residency spots are reserved for Canadians/permanent residents.

BC right now doesn't accept USMLEs as equivalent to the Canadian licensing exams. The Canadians have to write 2 steps rather than 3. From what I understand, you'll have to write the Canadian steps to be board eligible for BC.

ZUck

Thank you once again. I like the Canadian healthcare as it has lower overhead costs and not dealing with insurance companies. In addition, doctors live more than comfortably in Canada. I will try for Canadian residencies, especially one in BC to hopefully land a job there in BC as an ER physician after residency.