USMLE - to take or not to take??

[J-J]

I am a second year and it has come down to decide whether I should take the USMLE step 1 or not. I really don't want to study for another exam, pay the extra money, and risk failing (since supposely 75% DO students fail). Then again, I don't really know where I want to go or what I want to do (though nothing too competitive, ie Derm or Cardiology). I am just afraid taking only the COMLEX will limit my choices on where I end up in residency and what I am doing. Any thoughts would be SOOOOOO appreciated!!!

Thanks!!

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[J-J]

Oops, i just read my own post - I meant that I had read that 75% of DOs PASS, not FAIL!!! Sorry if I startled anyone!!!

 

[Diane L. Evans]

JJ-
I debated the issue at great length myself. I asked several practicing DO's (4-8 yrs postgrad)in Cardiology, GI, FP, And IM what their thoughts were. Most replied."The USMLE is for licensure it does NOT serve any benefit to the DO students since we are REQUIRED to take COMLEX why then subject yourself to an unneeded test? Besides if a program won't accept COMLEX then do you REALLY want to apply there and face further prejudice?"

My thoughts the USMLE is a test 800,000 practicing MD take. 25,000 DO's MUST take COMLEX. Sure a lot of programs may not be familar w/ COMLEX but if they are to accept you as a DO then they should also accept your certification. The COMLEX has changed format last year and is more equatable.

As far as the pass rate for USMLE it is much better than 30% our scholl had closer to 85% pass rate which is above allopathic overall pass rate. But again the osteopathic schools do not focus on all the critear needed to learn to pass USMLE for instance statistics,molecular biology.
Diane

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Check out this <a href="http://www.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001002" target="_blank">thread</a>

 

[drusso]

Take it. I'm a DO and I've taken both steps I and II of the USMLE and passed both. The COMLEX and USMLE are similar exams and if you're studying for one, you might as well study for the other. Why? It gives you more options for residency. Some programs, while not biased against D.O.'s, simply want to compare all candidates on the same scale. Until the NBOME gets serious about educating and marketing the COMLEX to residency program directors, you may be at a competitive disadvantage for some programs.

Moreover, the nice thing about the USMLE is that you can take it any time you want. My advice: take the COMLEX, if you pass it then study for an extra month or so for the USMLE.

Just for the record, residency programs look only at step I and II and once you're matched, they could care less which step III you take as long as you get licensed either under the COMLEX or USMLE.

To reiterate: Take the exam. It costs extra $$, but it may secure you a few extra residency interviews. If you do well on the COMLEX, you will likely do well on the USMLE. Don't sweat it.

 

[gasrx]

I must agree with drusso. If you want a residency in a competitive program, I highly suggest taking the USMLE. Not taking it will close a lot of doors for you.

 

[jdaasbo]

Let me third that sentiment. Study hard for both both. Take them together and just look at it as three days of tests instead of two. There is very little difference material wise between the two. Obviously, there is no OMM on USMLE. I cannot imagine passing one and not the other. In my class I know of more than a few people who actually went back to take step one of USMLE in their third or fourth year specifically because a particular residency program they were interested in required it.

 

[DO-2-BE]

If you take step I, II, and III of the USMLE are you a licensed medical doctor or still licensed as an licensed osteopathic doctor. I know your credintials (ie DO) after your name do not change. I know some foreign medical graduates have MBBS degrees but when they come to this country they take the USMLE and their letters change to MD. Not that it matters because they are equal. Does AOA reconize USMLE step III? Are you licensed under AMA at that point? Just curious.

 

[pags]

You can take the USMLE Step III as a DO, but you will be licensed ONLY as a DO when you complete and pass all three parts of the COMLEX. You will never be licensed as a MD or be able to legally change your "letters". Also, if you would like to practice in MI,PA,FL,OK,WV and maybe soon in NY, you'll need to complete an additional AOA internship year for your licensure.

You can be board certified by an allopathic board with completion of an ACGME residency and state licensure, DO or MD. Also, for you zealous folks out there, if you do an AOA internship followed by an ACGME residency, you could sit for both boards and be dually certified.

Now my question is, when going for allopathic fellowships, will PD's accept the COMLEX Part III or should I take the USMLE Step III for proper comparison?

 

[William Bohannon]

I took both the COMLEX and USMLE.

The main advantage of taking the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX is ease of application in the ERAS program. When applying to the allopathic programs that are not AOA approved, you use the ERAS application system. Only the USMLE has automatic score updates built into the system. There is no official way to include the COMLEX scores in your ERAS application. I think our school routinely includes your COMLEX scores as part of the school transcripts, but there is no place on the ERAS application for COMLEX scores.

Also, speed is another factor. As I have not yet graduated, I'm not too well versed in Step III issues. What I have been told is you can you license a little faster throught the USMLE route simply because the USMLE is offered on a year round basis and not just twice a year.

Anyway, my advice is:

If you are only looking at AOA programs and going throught the AOA match - COMLEX only.

If you might/are looking at allopathic programs and plan on using ERAS, consider BOTH COMLEX and USMLE. Just because the USMLE is set up to work more effeciently with the ERAS system.

Additionally, I took the USMLE I and II as kind of a "see if I can pass this crap as well" kind of thing. The exams are different, but probably about the same level of difficulty. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Really, if the NBOME would drag themselves into the 21st century, life would be simpler. If the COMLEX was offered year round like the USMLE, and the COMLEX could seamlessly fit into the ERAS application like the USMLE, and the COMLEX were offered at testing centers like Silvan learning centers like the USMLE, then MAYBE MOST PLACES WOULD BE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE COMLEX LIKE THEY ACCEPT THE USMLE! But wait, if the COMLEX actually did pull itself kicking and screaming into the 21st century then would the COMLEX lose it's "distinction" of being a major pain in the ass as a two day pencil and paper exam?

Just my loose collection of random thoughts.

Will

 

[Maran]

Just a quick reminder:
Many states require Steps I, II and III all passed within 7 years of first taking Step I.
It probably seems a long way off now, but it can sneak up on you! Remember to keep track of the years.

 

[macman]

My two cents:

One of the cons I heard (this is second hand) from one of our clinical profs here at DMU is that once you take one USMLE step you may have to take all three (?)- also, keep in mind that class of 2005 will be taking COMLEX PE (at least $1000.00) and USMLE has one in the works too, so money and logistics come into play here.

-Terry M.

 

[pags]

In order to get licensure as a DO, you have to pass all three parts of the COMLEX. It is not mandatory for a DO to complete the USMLE series if he/she happend to take only one Step.

 

[Leotigers]

Pags is right, you can take either Step I or Step II without having to take Step III.

I've heard that you can pass all three steps of the USMLE instead of the COMLEX for licensure. Unless I have to, I plan on taking USMLE Step III instead of the COMLEX Level III. My guess is that states that do not have separate licensing boards will not force you to take the COMLEX. One of my classmates claims that in CA we do not have to take the COMLEX. I am not sure if this is true because we have separate licensing boards.

As to whether or not you should take the USMLE, I would recommend taking it. This will definitely open more doors for you in terms of allopathic residencies. Plus, it is a pain in the butt scheduling Level III of the COMLEX. Whereas with the USMLE, I can schedule it at my convenience.

 

[Neurogirl]

The above poster is incorrect. To be licensed (in all 50 states) DOs MUST pass COMLEX I, II and III, regardless of whether or not they've also taken the USMLE. For DOs, the USMLE is ONLY used for obtaining residency interviews. Whether or not a state has seperate or combined licensing boards is of no significance. If you don't believe me, just call them and ask.

 

[Stinky T]

I was just looking into getting my license in MA this past week. According to the website, you can either pass the USMLE or the NBOME exam as part of the licensure requirements.

<a href="http://www.massmedboard.org/licensenfo.htm" target="_blank">http://www.massmedboard.org/licensenfo.htm</a>

 

[drusso]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by ER:
•Unless I have to, I plan on taking USMLE Step III instead of the COMLEX Level III. My guess is that states that do not have separate licensing boards will not force you to take the COMLEX. One of my classmates claims that in CA we do not have to take the COMLEX. I am not sure if this is true because we have separate licensing boards.•••••ER,

Believe me...YOU HAVE TO TAKE ALL THREE STEPS OF THE COMLEX if you're a D.O. You can go ahead and take the USMLE as well, but it is optional. Most D.O.'s who want to do competitive ACGME residencies take USMLE step I and II for residency match purposes only. The programs could care less which step III you take, but to be licensed as an osteopathic physician in the good 'ol USA you need to take step III of the COMLEX or else you're in deep poo-poo. As of last year, the COMLEX is now recognized by all 50 states as *THE* route for medical licensure for D.O.'s. I haven't decided if I'll take USMLE step III; there could be some political advantages like if I wanted to serve on a USMLE licensing committee or a state medical board committee. I don't know...

 

[Leotigers]

Apparently, I was misinformed by my classmates. A few of them are under the impression that they do not have to take the COMLEX Level III since they are taking the USMLE Step III. Is it the state licensing board that requires us to take it or the AOA?

 

[macman]

My last post was unclear, although legally you don't have to take all steps-it will look bad if you do not follow through when applying to certain competitive residencies. Now the question of whether taking one step is worse than none at all is still arguable.
here is a scenario though-what if you take comlex and rock it, then take usmle and suck, you just shot yourself in the foot. I have heard from MD DME's that as long as you provide info with your comlex score thats enough.

 

[doughboy]

To reinforce some of the above posts, I would take both exams. Unless you are die hard in doing an AOA residency and I would check them out in depth to make sure thats what you want to do because you might change your mind during your third and fourth year rotations. The material is basically the same and a lot of the review books I used for COMLEX were for the USMLE so that goes to show you the material is similarly besides the OMM which is not very difficult at all. The issue of whether you want to go to a program that doesn't take your COMLEX scores as even with the USMLE is stupid. Go to the best program for your training and if they want the USMLE then take it...that issue is for those DO's who are too into their own pride to know the reality of it all. Plus, I have been told that it was good for me to have taken both because even though I did well on COMLEX, most MD programs looked at my USMLE which I did just as well on. Me, personally I think it is the fact that you don't want to close any doors of opportunity when you start considering what programs to apply to is the biggest reason to take both.

 

[bobo]

Toting the old party line about "if they don't accept the COMLEX, then I don't want to go there anyway" is just plain stupid. Do what you have to in order to get the best training.

 

[OT_Still]

Rock on Bobo - If I listened to the old "party line", I would have missed out on *golden* opportunities.

I won't rehash the great advice previously given, only give a great quote:

•••quote:••• "Why climb through the window, when you can walk through the front door ?" ••••If you are intending to apply for ACGME residencies, or if you have *no idea* as to which area in medicine you will commit to - Take the USMLE. Trying to apply to an ACGME program with the COMLEX is like climbing through a window, while others who took the USMLE will comfortably walk through the front door.

If you *ablsolutely know* you will *only* apply to an osteopathic program - sure, the COMLEX will be fine. But for all others, take the USMLE. I can't tell you how many times I have seen fellow students get burned, stating "I wish I took the USMLE". Don't be a casualty of lack of foresight. I'm sure this will not sit too well with the hardcore AOA internship folks, but if a superior training opportunity exists, seize it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[J-J]

hey thanks for all the replies.

i talked to one of my deans about this and the first question he asked me was about my mcat scores. i studied very hard to get a very average score. that got me thinking about my SATs too - i took it twice, each time with a different course review program and i still only got average. my dean told me that i shouldn't try to leave all my doors open, esp if there is a risk in me doing bad on USMLE and then i'd close all my doors.

by the way, should i have signed up for the USMLE by now if i want to take it right after my boards?? is it too late to still be pondering???

anymore thoughts would be helful!!!

 

[pags]

I'll tell you from personal experience. The administration at NYCOM does not encourage their students to take the USMLE. I got the same answer, "If you do poorly, then your really closed your doors to the MD world." Screw that. It's bad advice. Makes me think that the administration believes the COMLEX is a much easier exam, which it's not, and that they lack confidence in their own students' ability. Study hard, take a review course if you like such things, and don't go into taking board exams with a similar defeatist attitude as what you recieved from your Dean. It disgusts me.

 

[drusso]

Take the USMLE. Study an extra month for it; do lot's of practice questions, then go take it. Rest assured, if you do well on the COMLEX, then you'll do well on the USMLE. In some senses, believe it or not, it's actually an *EASIER* exam because the questions are more refined/well-written while the COMLEX tends to be a bit murkier.

 

[doughboy]

I agree with the above poster in that the USMLE is "somewhat" easier in that the questions are not as ambiguous and its only one day on the computer. Plus, I think they ask more refined quesitons covering just as many topics even though there are are 350 questions as compared to the ~800 on the COMLEX. Either way, if you take the USMLE and do bad, you can just not report your scores or don't send them to the programs when you apply. Most of the other students in my class did fairly well on both exams and only a few of them did poorly on the USMLE(but those were people I don't think did exceptionally well on the COMLEX). Best bet is to decide to take it or not and then study your butt off.

 

[UHS2002]

If you want to go into FP, IM or Peds, taking only the COMLEX will suffice. Anything else...take the USMLE too.

 

[climber]

A good friend of mine sits on the residency app. review committee at USC(So. California), which is a pretty good MD school. He is a DO and has said that to them it makes no difference. He got his very competetive residency there with many other DO's. I think it comes down to how well you can do on any test. Just do really good on the COMLEX and then go with it. If you have extra money and time burning you than by all means take both. However, most DO schools have you start your rotations pretty quickly after level 1.