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I took the USMLE today and the COMLEX a week ago.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.
OSUdoc08 said:I took the USMLE today and the COMLEX a week ago.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.
OSUdoc08 said:I took the USMLE today and the COMLEX a week ago.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.
DHMO said:These tests are both standardized, which means that the 'difficulty' of each test is based on the population that takes it, not the material covered by the test. Without trying to start a flame war, I would argue that the average allopathic student scores higher on standardized tests than the average osteopathic student. I would bet the weaker osteopathic students do not elect to take the USMLE, and even with this selection bias, the passage rate is still higher for MD students than DO students on the USMLE. So, I would think that the USMLE is harder to pass/get a great score on the the COMLEX, however I do not have any numbers to back up these statements, only logic. Maybe the COMLEX has only a 50% pass rate while the USMLE is ~90%.
Idiopathic said:Your logic is very flawed.
The inherent difficulty of the test has absolutely nothing to do with testing population. The relative score you get does, but not the difficulty of answering the questions. Also, the material is the same, but picture the most poorly worded questions and terribly obtuse reasoning employed by the NBOME authors and you will start to understand what a large percentage of this test is: a guessing game.
I cant explain why DO students typically underperform MD students on the USMLE, except to say that it is diffuclt preparing for two separate board exams (especially one of which is more intensive in microbiology and pharmacology and the other with different characteristics). Or perhaps the teachers teach to the test in both circumstances and the COMLEX question format (which is slightly different) is used more in osteopathic school and vice versa. I dont know, but I do know that I felt lost and bewildered when I left the COMLEX and I felt level-headed and secure when I left the USMLE.
Pox in a box said:That's the most ignorant statement you've ever made. Think about why.
Of course you would, and Pox and I know why.OSUdoc08 said:I took the USMLE today and the COMLEX a week ago.
I hereby proclaim that the USMLE is easier than the COMLEX.
Discuss.
Idiopathic said:Your logic is very flawed.
The inherent difficulty of the test has absolutely nothing to do with testing population. The relative score you get does, but not the difficulty of answering the questions. Also, the material is the same, but picture the most poorly worded questions and terribly obtuse reasoning employed by the NBOME authors and you will start to understand what a large percentage of this test is: a guessing game.
I cant explain why DO students typically underperform MD students on the USMLE, except to say that it is diffuclt preparing for two separate board exams (especially one of which is more intensive in microbiology and pharmacology and the other with different characteristics). Or perhaps the teachers teach to the test in both circumstances and the COMLEX question format (which is slightly different) is used more in osteopathic school and vice versa. I dont know, but I do know that I felt lost and bewildered when I left the COMLEX and I felt level-headed and secure when I left the USMLE.
bigfrank said:Of course you would, and Pox and I know why.
bob sacamano said:you are interpreting the question as "which test has more difficult/ambiguous questions?" and DHMO is interpreting it as "which test is more difficult to score well on?" i think you're both making correct statements regarding your respective interpretations.
Haven't taken the USMLE yet, but everyone who's taken it says the questions are more intense but written much better.SolisR said:I'm with OSUdoc08 and Idiopathic. The COMLEX sucked in comparison to the USMLE. It actually made me angry.
Ric
threepeas said:i believe First Aide states first time allopaths pass USMLE @ 93% rate, and DO's pass @ 74%.
What is the first time passrate for the COMPLEX?
i have always believed the main difference between DO students and allopaths is that allopaths do better on standardized tests and that's pretty much it. both are equally capable of becoming excellent clinical physicians. what do you guys think?
Pox in a box said:If the COMLEX is so bad, why do you take it? Isn't USMLE preferred hands down?
Idiopathic said:Yes, and the poster remarked how he 'just took both tests', so how would he have any clue which was easier to score well on? He was obviously referring to perceived difficulty of the test. I think MD students just naturally assume that their test is harder, but in reality, it is much better written and much less ambigous. I did very well on both so you can trust me (actually slightly better statistically on COMLEX) and my assessment. The material doesnt change from the NBME to the NBOME, but the testing style is radically different.
OSUdoc08 said:
Pox in a box said:Isn't it? Remind me to ask the PDs if they would have rather me taken COMLEX in addition.
Idiopathic said:Theyd probably just rather you didnt apply.
Pox in a box said:That wasn't a punch below the belt to DOs. I'm just stating facts. The only residency programs that care about COMLEX are osteopath programs.
friedcfood said:I just took the USMLE today and it was plenty hard. I also took the COMLEX and it is also hard. Comparing the COMLEX with the USMLE is like comparing apples and oranges...these are two different exams.
USMLE--> basic science...however, i thought some of the q's weren't so basic.
COMLEX--> more clinical IMO.
reason why some residency directors like to see your STEP 2 scores--> more clinically oriented.
Both exams were difficult...but i would have to say USMLE is still more difficult to due the fact that some questions are just out of nowhere.
Pox in a box said:That wasn't a punch below the belt to DOs. I'm just stating facts. The only residency programs that care about COMLEX are osteopath programs.
Idiopathic said:Dude, seriously. What could you possibly know about what residency programs want? Especially about a segment of the population that you know nothing about? You just assume that PD's dont care about the COMLEX, but you have absolutely no evidence (and dont give me that 'one time i talked to a guy who's best friends sisters brother was an assistant to the PD at Western Ohio family practice residency for the blind, and he said...')
And what are these facts you speak of? You have no facts. You have absolutely zero first hand knowledge of any of this.
Idiopathic said:You just make blanket statements about things you know nothing about (not a select club either) and pass them off as fact. You dont know the firist thing about: a) what PD's look for, b) what they actually prefer, c) the relative difficulty of sitting for USMLE vs. COMLEX, d) what its like to apply for residency, e) whats important as a DO when you apply for residency, f) what it takes to actually get a residency, e) or even what its like to finish medical school.
Until you know even one of these things, please quit representing your asinine assumptions and conjecture as 'fact'.
Idiopathic said:You just make blanket statements about things you know nothing about (not a select club either) and pass them off as fact. You dont know the firist thing about: a) what PD's look for, b) what they actually prefer, c) the relative difficulty of sitting for USMLE vs. COMLEX, d) what its like to apply for residency, e) whats important as a DO when you apply for residency, f) what it takes to actually get a residency, e) or even what its like to finish medical school.
Until you know even one of these things, please quit representing your asinine assumptions and conjecture as 'fact'.
Pox in a box said:Gee, is your period about to start? I don't think I said anything false.
Pox in a box said:That wasn't a punch below the belt to DOs. I'm just stating facts. The only residency programs that care about COMLEX are osteopath programs.------Head-to-head, COMLEX does not mean as much as USMLE in competitive traditionally allopathic residency programs. That's all I'm saying Idio. Sorry to ruin your week. I'm not making any other judgments.
That's why the five programs I just contacted, regarding Internal Medicine and Psychiatry told me they had no preferance If I had a COMLEX or USMLE score. And those programs are Mayo, Oregon, Wash U in st. louis, Rush, and Hennepin.Pox in a box said:That wasn't a punch below the belt to DOs. I'm just stating facts. The only residency programs that care about COMLEX are osteopath programs.
HoodyHoo said:Are you going to sit there and judge someone during residency when you guys are working side-by-side?? b/c they have a DO?
People like you are the ones I'm going to love to show up on a clinical level.
stochastic said:He is merely commenting on the tests.
This is one thread you probably should have closed.DrMom said:Please quit with the personal attacks.
Hey Idio,Idiopathic said:I also have encouraged DO students not to take USMLE if they didnt think they could do very well on it (i.e. not beating the mean not very helpful). Just opinion, again, but at least I have some evidence.
bigfrank said:Hey Idio,
If an osteopathic student takes the USMLE and doesn't do as well as they had hoped, do they have to report it to allopathic residencies through ERAS? Just a thought, I really don't know either way.
bigfrank said:Hey Idio,
If an osteopathic student takes the USMLE and doesn't do as well as they had hoped, do they have to report it to allopathic residencies through ERAS? Just a thought, I really don't know either way.
bigfrank said:This is one thread you probably should have closed.
Gee, I wonder why you did not.
P.S. I would be more than honored to have Idiopathic put me to sleep sometime, should the need ever arise.
DMBmatty08 said:If this is the case, then why do i have an inbox full of emails from allopathic residency programs telling me that they accept COMLEX scores in place of USMLE scores?
Idiopathic said:One of which he knows absolutely nothing about. Thats my point. No program would overlook a top notch applicant with a top COMLEX score because he/she didnt take the USMLE and no program would value a DO more because he took the USMLE.
Idiopathic said:Now, I took the test because I felt that having done well on two standardized exams (as opposed to one) was much better for my residency app. It showed versatility and adaptability. I also have encouraged DO students not to take USMLE if they didnt think they could do very well on it (i.e. not beating the mean not very helpful). Just opinion, again, but at least I have some evidence.
bigfrank said:This is one thread you probably should have closed.
Gee, I wonder why you did not.
Guess I wasn't. But thanks for the //lucid// post.Doc Oc said:Do they /have/ to? No.
Should they /have/ to? Another story, do a search if you're that interested.
Pox in a box said:I said HEAD-TO-HEAD. Think about it. Don't get offended by this. It's not worth it. Look at the title of this thread.
DMBmatty08 said:I'm not offended in any way by anything that you have said, I just think that you are having a diffucult time dealing with the fact that you are WRONG!!!!! You have no idea which test RD's prefer and there are a few of us on here that have evidence to discredit your statement that "Head-to-Head" RD's of competitive residencies prefer USMLE to COMLEX. You might as well start getting used to the fact that you don't know everything now.