USNews 2008 Public Health Rankings

Discussion in 'Public Health Degrees (Masters and Doctoral)' started by AndrewJ42, Mar 29, 2007.

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  1. AndrewJ42

    AndrewJ42 Member 7+ Year Member

    106
    0
    Feb 2, 2004
    Ann Arbor, MI
    For those who care...no need having you all pay to see these...

    Health Disciplines: Public Health
    Ranked in 2007*

    Rank/School Average assessment
    score (5.0 = highest)
    1. Johns Hopkins University (MD) 4.9
    2. Harvard University (MA) 4.7
    University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 4.7
    4. University of Washington 4.5
    5. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4.4
    6. Columbia University (NY) 4.1
    7. Emory University (GA) 4.0
    8. University of California--Berkeley 3.9
    University of California--Los Angeles 3.9
    10. University of Minnesota--Twin Cities 3.8
    11. University of Pittsburgh 3.6
    12. University of Texas--Houston Health Sciences Center 3.4
    13. Boston University 3.3
    Tulane University (LA) 3.3
    15. University of Illinois--Chicago 3.2
    16. University of Alabama--Birmingham 3.1
    Yale University (CT) 3.1
    18. University of Iowa 3.0
    19. George Washington University (DC) 2.9
    20. University of South Florida 2.8
    21. Ohio State University 2.7
    St. Louis University 2.7
    University of Arizona (Zuckerman) 2.7
    24. Texas A&M Univ. System Health Sciences Center 2.5
    University of South Carolina 2.5
    26. SUNY--Albany 2.4
    UMDNJ/Rutgers/New Jersey Institute of Technology 2.4
    University of Oklahoma 2.4
    29. San Diego State University 2.3
    Universiyt of Arkansas for Medical Sciences (Boozman) 2.3
    31. Drexel University (PA) 2.1
    Loma Linda University (CA) 2.1
    University of Kentucky 2.1
    University of North Texas Health Science Center 2.1
    35. New York Medical College 1.9
    University of Massachusetts--Amherst 1.9

    and for Health Administration programs

    Health Disciplines: Healthcare Management (Master's)
    Ranked in 2007*

    Rank/School Average assessment
    score (5.0 = highest)
    1. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4.5
    2. University of Minnesota--Twin Cities 4.2
    3. University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 4.1
    4. University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 4.0
    University of Washington 4.0
    Virginia Commonwealth University 4.0
    7. University of Alabama--Birmingham 3.9
    8. Northwestern University (Kellogg) (IL) 3.8
    9. U. of California--Berkeley (Sch. of Public Health) 3.7
    10. University of California--Berkeley (Haas) 3.6
    11. University of California--Los Angeles 3.5
    12. Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.3
    New York University 3.3
    Ohio State University 3.3
    St. Louis University 3.3
    University of Missouri--Columbia 3.3
    17. Boston University 3.2
    University of Iowa 3.2
    Washington University in St. Louis 3.2
    20. Duke University (Fuqua) (NC) 3.1
    Trinity University (TX) 3.1
    U.S. Army/Baylor University (TX) 3.1
    University of Pittsburgh 3.1
    Yale University (CT) 3.1
    25. Arizona State University 3.0
    Cornell University (NY) 3.0
    Rush University (IL) 3.0
    28. George Washington University (DC) 2.9
    Temple University (PA) 2.9
    30. Georgetown University (DC) 2.8
    Simmons College (MA) 2.8
    University of Colorado--Denver and Health Sciences Center (Grad School of Business Admin.) 2.8
    University of Florida 2.8
    34. Georgia State University 2.7
    Medical University of South Carolina 2.7
    Tulane University (LA) 2.7
    University of Colorado--Denver and Health Sciences Center (Network in Healthcare Management) 2.7
    University of Southern California 2.7
    39. CUNY--Baruch/Mount Sinai School of Medicine 2.6
    40. Texas Tech University 2.5
    University of Kansas Medical Center 2.5
    Washington State University 2.5
    Xavier University (OH) 2.5
    45. Union College (NY) 2.4
    University of Kentucky (Martin) 2.4
    University of Miami (FL) 2.4
    University of South Carolina 2.4
    49. San Diego State University 2.3
    University of Central Florida 2.3
    University of Oklahoma 2.3
    Widener University (PA) 2.3
    53. University of Scranton (PA) 2.2
    54. Texas Woman's University 2.1
    University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences 2.1
    University of Houston--Clear Lake 2.1
    University of Southern Maine 2.1
    University of St. Thomas (MN) 2.1
    59. California State University--Long Beach 2.0
    Florida International University 2.0
    61. Cleveland State University 1.9
    Texas State University--San Marcos 1.9
    University of Memphis 1.9
    64. King's College (PA) 1.8
    Marymount University (VA) 1.8
    University of North Florida (FL) 1.8
    67. Governors State University (IL) 1.7
    68. Armstrong Atlantic State University (GA) 1.6
    69. University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences 0.0
     
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  3. MPHopeful

    MPHopeful 2+ Year Member

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    Mar 8, 2007
    Thank you for posting these. Doesn't seem to be too much change from the last set.

    Was there a separate break down for social-behavioral track? Just curious.
     
  4. AndrewJ42

    AndrewJ42 Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 2, 2004
    Ann Arbor, MI
    no, surprisingly community health was left out this year...
     
  5. AndrewJ42

    AndrewJ42 Member 7+ Year Member

    106
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    Feb 2, 2004
    Ann Arbor, MI
    can we make this sticky, so it just stays up at the top?
     
  6. venureddy82

    venureddy82 New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Feb 5, 2006
    THATS A VERY GOOD IDEA !!!!!!
     
  7. neu_psy_phy

    neu_psy_phy New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Jun 23, 2004
    How come Health Management program at Columbia is not even on the list?
     
  8. AndrewJ42

    AndrewJ42 Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 2, 2004
    Ann Arbor, MI
    it's because they don't have an MHA or MHSA degree program (i'm assuming)
     
  9. coolmavs

    coolmavs Member 5+ Year Member

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    Sep 21, 2005
    Man they have atleast increased the number of public health programs that they have ranked...
     
  10. winnie216

    winnie216

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    Feb 13, 2008
    Does anyone know how Tufts fairs as a School of Public Health? Thanks!
     
  11. briy61

    briy61 Junior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 28, 2005
    I can't speak to the legitimacy of the rankings of Allopathic or Osteopathic schools, but for Public Health, one must keep in mind that US News and World Report is ranking the Schools of Public Health, NOT MPH programs.

    That is to say, many colleges/universities offer quality MPH degrees, but do not have a dedicated School of Public Health, such as Tufts University School of Medicine. This is why I think it's less important for a program to be accredited by the ASPH than the CEPH.

    If USNWR were to rank all MPH programs, you would probably see a very different (and a much larger) list.

    Bottom Line: the USNWR rankings are not especially useful because they are not representative. However, if you're insecure, and need the validation and "bragging rights" of being able to say you go to a well-ranked school (on a ranking system that is basically bogus), then it is excellent.
     
  12. Kang

    Kang 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 18, 2008
    India
    How would you decide between U of Michigan (4.5) and U of Minnesota ( 4.2)for MHA?
     
  13. laguna

    laguna 2+ Year Member

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    Oct 22, 2007
    Thanks so much for posting these! Does anyone know what these rankings are based on and how much of an indication they actually are to the quality of education you will receive at these schools?
     
  14. afoster

    afoster

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    Feb 18, 2008
    The methodology used by U.S. News and World Reports does not directly measure the quality of education. The primary metric is the school's "reputation" which may or may not be based on actual knowledge of the MPH program. The factors that are the basis of a reputation are often very general information and are based on past, not current, experiences. Furthmore, schools of public health offer over a dozen degrees and myriad areas of study, any single ranking would fail to measure the strengths (and weaknesses) of any individual degree programs within the schools.

    There is no reliable ranking of schools of public health. Each of the 40 schools of public health is accredited, which means that they have met the very high standards set by the accrediting body (CEPH). Each school has unique strengths in research, service and education.

    Which school is right for you is a very individual decision. The best advice I have is to make sure you have the opportunity to speak with faculty in the program about their expectations and contact recent graduates and current students to ask them about their experience. The admissions offices should be able to put you in touch with students and graduates. The current students and graduates should be able to give you a pretty good feel as to what to expect from your education.
     
  15. laguna

    laguna 2+ Year Member

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    Oct 22, 2007
    Thanks, afoster. That was the impression I had gotten about the rankings, as well. My first choice school is actually not one of the higher ranked - and I want to make sure I'm making a good decision. I was also unclear how much it actually meant for a school to be accredited, but from what you're saying it sounds like you would receive a quality education at any of the accredited schools. Do you believe this is true?
     
  16. tt13

    tt13 New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Jul 27, 2006
    to use the words of another, please read this short article on what makes a good school:

    http://www2.studentsreview.com/articles/what-is-a-good-school.php3

    after reading the article, you'd see that the essential argument is that a school's reputation (qualifying it as a "good school") will open many doors for you initially, but it is the quality of education that you received that will further you along.. this may or may not be the most highly ranked school. consider the "fit" for you is the advice i'd give and try to take myself.

    this is the statistical breakdown of how students choose their respective colleges. you'll see that reputation is the most highly regarded characteristic of a school, whereas ranking falls into the lower half.

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/college...ts-to-colleges-rankings-not-so-important.html

    at the same time, i disagree with some of the comments stating that rankings are not legit or not important (another thread exists on this topic).

    many universities also acknowledge the importance of ranking, or else they would not advertise the fact that they're ___ on the list or celebrate when they keep their spot for another year. see this article.

    http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/...ws.Graduate.School.Rankings.Out-2248345.shtml

    i don't want to reproduce other texts, so i will redirect you to a site that has the breakdown for the us news rankings. scroll down to the middle where the methodology appendix is placed.

    http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v10n16/

    as you'll see that the most heavily weighted factors are academic reputation (25%), faculty resources (20%), and retention rate (20%). i don't have any formal studies on the correlation between these factors and the "quality of education," but i would expect them to be highly correlated. reputation open up doors of opportunities, faculty resources = highly qualified faculty, and retention rate = student satisfaction.

    ** START OF EDIT **
    The above ranking method is for larger programs only. smaller program such as public health are ranked according to peer assessment surveys which typically has a >70% response rate.

    related us news article: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings.../edu/grad/rankings/about/08hea_meth_brief.php
    ** END OF EDIT **

    by the way, if you're interested in reading some of the comments or grading my students at the various schools, try visiting http://grad.studentsreview.com/


    given that, i wouldn't give much thought to a few place difference in ranking. for undergrad, i consider the top 20-25 to be all relatively the same. i'd expect for grad school, the top 10 or so would be equally "good."
     
  17. afoster

    afoster

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    Feb 18, 2008
    The methodology for the U.S. News and World Reports ranking of Schools of Public Health is as follows:

    *Survey is conducted every third year
    *Three individuals at each CEPH accredited schools/program receives a survey (dean, associate deans for research and associate dean for academics)
    *The only question is "How would you rank each school on a scale of 1-5?"

    The other metholodogy mentioned in a previous post is not part of the rankings of Schools of Public Health.
     
  18. tt13

    tt13 New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Jul 27, 2006
  19. bbas

    bbas Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Dec 23, 2003
    DC Metro
    If that's the methodology used, I have even less trust in the rankings than I had before.
     
  20. briy61

    briy61 Junior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 28, 2005
    I'm pretty sure that is NOT the methodology they use, especially since stand-alone programs -- at colleges/universities without a dedicated school of public health -- are not ranked.

    Therefore, if the suggestion were true that all CEPH accredited programs are surveyed, then that would mean that any program that is CEPH accredited but does not have a dedicated school of public health simply didn't make the cut.

    That is insane.

    I would have believed it if the person who summarized the "methodology" said that ASPH accredited programs are ranked because the ASPH only applies to schools of public health.

    Bottom Line: None of us really know what the methodology is. What we do know is that it's an almost irresponsibly subjective tool that helps the insecure feel better about themselves. And in response to the individual who said that there must be some validity to the rankings if schools celebrate them, of course schools celebrate their own high rankings; it's a great marketing tool because there are enough people who are so concerned with what other people think that they will apply to schools on the basis of ranking alone.
     
  21. publichealthfan

    publichealthfan 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 14, 2008
    not just applicants but employers as well
     
  22. tt13

    tt13 New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Jul 27, 2006
    try to reference posts when you're responding rather than "that person" or "that individual" ...

    i was merely citing what others have said about the rankings and such.

    personally, i have no problem using the rankings as an initial guideline to help me determine which schools to apply to, but again, that's just my preference. i don't think that should be condemned as right or wrong...

    unc is ranked "higher" than columbia and emory, but i'm putting serious thought into my decision and may or may not be going to these "lower ranked" schools, because one may be a better fit for me. that's not to say that i didn't use usnews to help me decide where to apply to in the first place.

    like i said earlier, i view the us news rankings as fairly volatile, meaning a few place difference doesn't mean much when it comes to quality (e.g. job opportunities, faculty, prestige, etc.)

    but again, quality will only be useful to someone if they can utilize the resources offered by the school.. in other words, if the school doesn't fit what you want, the rankings will not matter in terms of what you can gain from attending the school, other than perhaps the "reputation."

    briy61, i think it's a bit presumptuous to say that people who use these rankings are "insecure" and need something to make them "feel better about themselves"...

    finally, what's wrong with caring about how others, more importantly employers, view the school you attended? i don't think it's a bad thing to care about how your resume looks and whether or not a school can help you get your foot in the door...
     
  23. briy61

    briy61 Junior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 28, 2005
    For those who care (not many i hope) i was referencing tt13...

    To address your points tt13, I wasn't condemning anyone as wrong. And I wasn't being presumptuous. I was expressing my opinion. And my opinion is that these rankings are ridiculously subjective, irresponsible, and effective only if someone's number 1 concern is bragging rights. I have the right to express this opinion just as you have the right to disagree with me on it.

    Don't take what I say so personally.

    To answer your direct question: "What's wrong with caring about how others, more importantly employers, view the school you attended?"

    I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as you know what the risks are of choosing a school on that basis.

    Let's say, for argument sake, that your future employer couldn't give two $hits about the rankings, then it didn't matter that you took it into consideration when you were applying. On the other hand, let's say your future employer views the name-recognition of your school as a critical component in determining whether to hire you. In my opinion (and let it be clear that this is my opinion, tt13, so you dont get offended), you are setting yourself up to work for a fairly close-minded employer in that case.

    Either way, tt13, lighten up a bit. This is a message board after all. We're all free to think and write what we want.
     
  24. tt13

    tt13 New Member 5+ Year Member

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    Jul 27, 2006
    i've already said what i wanted to say. i don't think you saw my emphasis on finding the school that is the right fit for you, even though rankings may be a useful starting point.

    your sarcasm doesn't really help make what you say sound any better.

    you ask me to lighten up, yet your comments are consistently condescending and borderline rude.

    anyways, best of luck to everyone who's starting to make their decisions. whichever school you decide on, hopefully you'll be happy with it, be it the higher or lower ranked school.

    as for me, i'd still use usnews and other rankings to HELP narrow down schools during the application process if i had to do it all over again. in a way, isn't that what we're doing on this forum when we ask for others' opinions on such and such school? =)
     
  25. winnie216

    winnie216

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    Feb 13, 2008
    Does anyone have first hand information on either Columbia's or University of Michigan's MPH programs...and which has a stronger program?
     
  26. mlw47

    mlw47 5+ Year Member

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    Feb 20, 2007
    USNWR rankings are bunk across the board: undergrad, grad school, etc.

    In the specific case of MPH, they only rank dedicated public health schools. For instance, Dartmouth isn't on the list at all, not because it's a bad program (which it isn't) but because it's not part of a true "school of public health".
     
  27. rajju077

    rajju077 2+ Year Member

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    Dec 27, 2007
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
  28. nymbarra

    nymbarra In flux 2+ Year Member

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    Mar 6, 2008
    USNEWS rankings don't really reflect the strength of global health programs. This is partly due to the doctoral vs. masters composition of the students, the relative strength of other departments in the SPH, as well as the proportion of students who come in with significant global health experience.

    Also, MPH programs in general--versus the PhD or DrPH programs--need students to be more proactive (with the huge class sizes) and focused with their time (usually 1 to 2 years) there.

    With that said, and disclosing that I have had 3 years of living and working overseas in the health sector and with a Tulane MPH, I would say that the strongest global health programs are:

    Johns Hopkins
    Harvard
    UNC
    Emory
    Tulane

    It seems that they get the most work and grants for global health projects. There are other absolutely fabulous SPH's out there--like Berkeley, Columbia, or UMich--but for global health, they don't seem to be as prominent. It could be that these programs are all around solid, so their global health depts don't stand out as much...

    My strongest recommendation for those interested in a MPH program: take the more analytical courses---like Biostats and Epi---they are the most marketable. And if you want to work in global health, it is VERY helpful to have had at least one year of overseas work.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  29. AnThRoPoLoGy

    AnThRoPoLoGy

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    May 26, 2008
    nymbarra, perhaps you could tell me your opinion on my situation. I was accepted to Tulane in the Department of Internation Health and Development, however recieved no financial aid other than the government loans. Do you think recieving a degree from Tulane is worth going into that much debt? Tulane is where I want to be without question because the research there most closely matches my interests in global health and it seems as though there would be many opportunities at hand by studying there, but the money is my only issue. The other school I am considering is still a good school and I would recieve a GA with instate tuition and a stipend. However it does not have an international focus per se, but rather a few courses on the subject. I think I could be happy there but I'm afraid I will miss out on important experiences, connections, and opportunities by not attending Tulane. Do you think the money is worth it? I'm afraid I'm letting the hype of the school get to me

    Oh and I would love to hear anyone's opinion. I had addressed nymbarra since she is a Tulane grad. :)
     
  30. DrJosephKim

    DrJosephKim Advisor SDN Advisor 7+ Year Member

    1,387
    7
    Mar 29, 2008
    USA
    Physician
    I received my MPH from U Mass Amherst and I completed the entire program online. If anyone would like any further information, feel free to send me a PM.
     
  31. AndrewJ42

    AndrewJ42 Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 2, 2004
    Ann Arbor, MI
    friends,

    i see the bickering over the rankings and I am saddened. I had placed them up here as a tool to look at schools and which ones are being judged by deans and other experts as producing the best quality students and education.

    that being said, no, just because you're in the top 5 doesn't mean that you're at the best school...for you. what it does mean is that you've been rigorously screened and admittance was granted to you due to your high scholastic aptitude and qualities for future leadership.

    we live in a rather sad world where rankings do seem to matter. not always, but usually at first glance. you should take a quick look to see who some of the top companies are hiring. Really, take a look at Mathematica, McKinsey, Bain, BCG, Sg2, Brookings Institute, NIH, CDC and maybe even the list of Hospital Fellows for MHA/MHSA students. Rankings do matter to these employers, it is a way for them to make quick and dirty cuts from all the fine students out there. It's sad, but it is the truth...pedigree still matters in a day and age where we society supposedly prides ourselves in being my willing to look past the ivy walls and high-brow school.

    that being said, like my good friends at lesser law schools...it doesn't matter so long as you do well where you're at. i totally agree with this. Dan Marino was still a superstar even though he was on the Miami Dolphins who never won a Super Bowl in his time there, yet he personally excelled and will be considered one of the greatest QBs of all time. As long as you do well, it won't matter where you came from.

    Ergo, let's not fuss over rankings. They are what they are. Some use them, some don't. No point in arguing something that won't change. Society will always choose to rank people, schools and their favorite YouTube videos. Let's just do the best we can and be happy.
     
  32. Cster0905

    Cster0905 7+ Year Member

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    Mar 5, 2008
    This is such a dumb argument. Rankings are rankings, and they certainly are not an exact science. Top 10 is pretty much even across the board. I simply do not believe that someone going to the #9 school, with hard work and initiative, is not going to be competitive with someone from the #2 school.

    I was admitted to Hopkins, UNC, Michigan, Columbia, UCLA, Emory, Pitt, etc. I decided to attend UCLA because I find it to fit my interests (MPH and beyond) the best and for several other reasons:

    -UCLA has one of the highest faculty productivity rankings in the nation
    -their Community Health Sciences department has published more papers than peer departments at the others schools I considered
    -they have the best access to the population I want to work with (Latinos)
    -their school is supported by the #3 medical center in the nation, a top 10 medical school, great nursing, and overall great medical sciences curriculums and programs
    -they have many MDs on faculty

    I don't think I'm worse off going to UCLA than I would be going to Hopkins or Columbia -- were the rankings so indicative of quality, I'd be at Hopkins. Grad school is about meeting your interests and going to a place you believe you'll be successful.

    Also consider that schools' relative strengths vary by their departments. Hopkins does not set the gold standard for everything they teach by virtue of being the top-ranked school. You have to look at the faculty and the curriculi of each school you're considering at the department level to ascertain which is the "best."

    All of the schools in the top 10 are internationally-recognized schools of academic excellence, from undergrad to grad. If you apply yourself, perform well, and seek out opportunities, you'll do as well as possible regardless of where you go.
     
  33. CMVMPH

    CMVMPH Epi & Health Educator 2+ Year Member

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    Jul 2, 2008
    New York
    I don't know if I understand this correctly because I don't really read the college ranking stuff anymore (plus...I know it's old lol)

    Is it ranking the schools based on a general Public Health program? Then, a Health Care Administration program...etc?

    New York Medical's Epi program was top rate in 2007 and even 08 until its wonderful chair left :scared:

    Also, they phased out their general Public Health program in 2005 and only have PT students left that are trying to complete it. No new students have been admitted for a long time. So that could be why they had such a terrible ranking? Lol Justtt a thought.

    I still <3 my alma mater, and I feel that I got a great education. At least, the Ph.D. programs and employers think so, so who cares!
     
  34. Cesc

    Cesc

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    Mar 1, 2011
    Hello,

    Does anyone know about UK MPH programs?
    I got offers from Leeds, UCL and London School so far.
    I got Brandies from US as well.
    I have a hard time to decide where to go.
    Please share if you have some thoughts and it will be very helpful to me.
     
  35. golden123

    golden123

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    Oct 27, 2011
    I'm trying to figure out how to proceed with grad school about to take the GRE. I'm very much leaning towards UCLA, it's in California and is very well known and since it's a public school I think I'll get more financial aid...


    In addition, if anyone has a good understanding of the public health Masters degree, which is the best focus/concentration in terms of job offers? Public Health Policy vs. community health vs. health administration...and idk however many there may be...I can't figure out what they really mean and their implication in the job market.



    THANKS!!!!
     
  36. LiteBear2011

    LiteBear2011 2+ Year Member

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    Dec 1, 2008
    I wouldn't hold my breath for financial aid from a University of California school. The UC system is in a state of financial crisis.
     

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