SDN members see fewer ads and full resolution images. Join our non-profit community!

USNEWS statistics question

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by imtiaz, Mar 17, 2002.

  1. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    when considering the admissions data posted by USNEWS, do they count waitlists as acceptances?

    ex:
    apps=1,628
    ints=727
    acc=492
    enr=296

    now, does this mean that (492-296)= 196 people were pulled off a waitlist?! i find that hard to swallow. help! :confused:
     
  2. SDN Members don't see this ad. About the ads.
  3. none

    none 1K Member 10+ Year Member

    1,903
    5
    Jul 27, 2001
    I have no idea why you are subtracting enrolled from accepted. All that means is that of the 492 people offered a spot, 296 of them ended up going to that school. It has absolutely and completely nothing to do with waitlists.
     
  4. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    ah, but thats the question! :) they accepted 492 people, meaning they sent out 492 acceptance notices or does that include waitlists? because otherwise, it means 196 people chose to go elsewhere? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
     
  5. Doctora Foxy

    Doctora Foxy Meow 7+ Year Member

    5,368
    2
    Jan 28, 2002
    I don't really understand the question, but the number of acceptances does include those that were taken off the waitlist.
     
  6. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    this is the question.

    acc=492

    class size is obviously 296.

    the 492 is everyone in the acceptable category, no? (including waitlists). this means, (492-296)=196 people were eternally on the waitlist and never made it in. yes? :)

    OR

    492 acceptance letters went out, and an undisclosed amount of applicants were on a waitlist. therefore, 492-296=196 people were given a bonafide acceptance but turned it down to go somewhere else, or whatever they chose. is this it or is it the case above?
     
  7. edogg

    edogg Member 7+ Year Member

    69
    0
    Aug 25, 2001
    Ann Arbor, MI
    most schools initially accept 2-3 people per one spot in the class. So there isnt as much waitlist movement as you think. I hope this helps answer the question.
     
  8. Doctora Foxy

    Doctora Foxy Meow 7+ Year Member

    5,368
    2
    Jan 28, 2002
    option B is correct :D

    p.s. I posted the exact same message twice and one didn't show up. I wonder if I posted at the exact same second as edogg and mine got erased. :confused:
     
  9. UCLA2000

    UCLA2000 7+ Year Member

    2,315
    3
    Dec 19, 2001
    the hospital
    Over the last few days I've seen that some premeds have a few misconceptions.

    1. Waitlists are NOT acceptances.
    2. Students who are not taken off the waitlist are REJECTED. This in no way helps them while applying the following year. It is NOT a guaranteed admission.
     
  10. rxfudd

    rxfudd 1K Member 10+ Year Member

    1,344
    4
    Feb 13, 2001
    Chicago suburbs
    Imtiaz, it's the second scenario. The numbers they use mean that 492 people were given an acceptance - this may include those who are given one right after an interview as well as those pulled off of a waitlist. A total of 492 letters were sent out. However, of these people, only 296 decided to actually go to the school. So 196 people were given an acceptance but chose not to take it.
     
  11. what was option C? :confused:
     
  12. mcwmark

    mcwmark Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    265
    0
    Jun 20, 2001
    You're right in your last statement. A total of 492 acceptances were offered, but that doesn't mean that all 196 people were pulled off of the waitlist (though many of them probably did).

    Of course, now I'm wondering what medical school takes 296 people into their first year class?
     
  13. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    if you figure that the class size is 296, 296*2=592. if the number that USNEWS reports as acceptances includes waitlists, and if they at least accept twice as many, then the accepted number including waitlists should be 596. in this particular case, they accepted 1.66 people per spot available? weird, isnt it? i just want to know how USNEWS makes their data, it doesnt say on their website and i was hoping one of you neurotic types would know :)
     
  14. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    oh my bad, thanks! :D
     
  15. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    from what ive heard, they only accept as many as their class can handle at a time. therefore, as one spot opens up, someone on the waitlist is pulled off. so that would mean that 196 people came off the waitlist, right? otherwise, there would be a problem of "everyone enrolling at once" even though highly unlikely its not a safe way of going about accepting people. right?

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mcwmark:
    <strong>You're right in your last statement. A total of 492 acceptances were offered, but that doesn't mean that all 196 people were pulled off of the waitlist (though many of them probably did).

    Of course, now I'm wondering what medical school takes 296 people into their first year class?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
     
  16. UCLA2000

    UCLA2000 7+ Year Member

    2,315
    3
    Dec 19, 2001
    the hospital
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by imtiaz:
    <strong>if you figure that the class size is 296, 296*2=592. if the number that USNEWS reports as acceptances includes waitlists, and if they at least accept twice as many, then the accepted number including waitlists should be 596. in this particular case, they accepted 1.66 people per spot available? weird, isnt it? i just want to know how USNEWS makes their data, it doesnt say on their website and i was hoping one of you neurotic types would know :) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here's how it works...
    The better the school is the less number of people they accept.

    Penn for instance accepts approx. 1.5 as many students as spots. I believe that MCP Hahn accepts twice as many.

    The numbers in USNEWS include two things:
    1. The intial number of acceptances passed out (even if the person decides not to attend)
    2. The number of people pulled off of the waitlist who are accepted.
     
  17. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    ucla, that totally makes sense now. when looking at the data it becomes totally clear.

    example:

    UIC
    (in state)
    apps=1628
    int=727
    acc=492
    enr=296

    it shows then that 196 people were pulled off an alternate list. now, compare this with a school that is more desirable, like harvard. :)

    (total)
    apps=4589
    int=780
    acc=236
    enr=167

    this means 236-167= 69 people were pulled off a waitlist. guess those 69 didnt fit in well at HMS,eh? :)
     
  18. souljah1

    souljah1 Attending 10+ Year Member

    1,667
    6
    Feb 7, 2002
    It does not mean they were accepted off the waitlist. All schools give outright acceptances to more than the number of seats available. Not everyone given an acceptance will attend. So schools figure out statistically how many they can give outright acceptances to. Then, sometime in May, they start pulling from the waitlist.

    For example.

    UCSF..141 seats available.
    outright acceptances granted: around 190
    total accepted to fill 141 spots: around 230
    therefore waitlisted people offerred acceptances: around 40.

    Make sense? It is not as easy as simply subtracting the number of matriculating students from those accepted to get the number of waitlisted students.
     
  19. faerichilde

    faerichilde Member 7+ Year Member

    96
    0
    Mar 6, 2002
    Philadelphia, PA
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> All schools give outright acceptances to more than the number of seats available</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From what I understand, that is not quite true. I am fairly sure that schools only send out as many acceptances as the number of spots in the class. The numbers or percentages of students accepted given by medical schools include those pulled from the wait list, and you should be able to get a vaguely accurate idea about movement of the waitlist from the number of students accepted vs. class size. This may not be the case for all schools, but this was the impression that I got at the schools where I interviewed
     
  20. TommyGunn04

    TommyGunn04 10+ Year Member

    1,049
    1
    Mar 7, 2002
    Durham, NC
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by faerichilde:
    [QB]
     
  21. Whisker Barrel Cortex

    Whisker Barrel Cortex 1K Member 10+ Year Member

    1,785
    19
    Aug 10, 2001
    Midwest
    There was a story the year I applied to med school about one school (I forget which one) that ended up with a larger class size than they are alotted for because they underestimated how many of the people they accepted would choose to attend. For example, they accepted 300 with the thought that 200 or less would want to come there but 220 decided to. So, schools definitely accept more people than their class size.
     
  22. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping. 10+ Year Member

    I agree with WBC, although it probably does vary from school to school, they over accept at the beggininng and only pull people off the waitlist in around may once enough people have declined the acceptance. For example, Ohio state said at the interview they accept around 240 people for the 180 spots, and then go to the waitlist in around June when 60 people decline the acceptance and then they go one spot at a time. USC does this, also.
     
  23. imtiaz

    imtiaz i cant translate stupid Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,615
    15
    Jul 26, 2000
    New York, NY
    thanks guys. but isnt that a lawsuit waiting to happen if a significant amount of people all want to go to that school, wouldnt they be in deep $h!t? or do they pull the "we reserve the right to revoke your dreams, aspirations, etc etc. at any time" card on you at that point?
     
  24. rxfudd

    rxfudd 1K Member 10+ Year Member

    1,344
    4
    Feb 13, 2001
    Chicago suburbs
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by imtiaz:
    <strong>thanks guys. but isnt that a lawsuit waiting to happen if a significant amount of people all want to go to that school, wouldnt they be in deep $h!t? or do they pull the "we reserve the right to revoke your dreams, aspirations, etc etc. at any time" card on you at that point?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They usually just deal with it. Last year UIC, accepted something like 30-40 too many people, which is why they increased their final cutoff numbers for interviews (less interviews = less acceptances). SIU has a funny process - when you get accepted, the letter actuall says "accepted when a spot is available". I'm still not totally clear what this means, but from the sounds of it, you are guaranteed a spot as long as you get one of the first 72 letters. After that, someone has to drop for your acceptance to be valid.

    For the record everyone, the "enrolled" number from US news is the number of people who matriculated to a school. "Acceptances offered" is just that - the number of acceptances offered. You cannot say that the difference between the two is the number pulled of the waitlist - that would fall under acceptances offered. There is no way to get any information about the waitlist from US news data without knowing how many initial acceptances (during interviews) went out.
     
  25. rxfudd

    rxfudd 1K Member 10+ Year Member

    1,344
    4
    Feb 13, 2001
    Chicago suburbs
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by rxfudd:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by imtiaz:
    <strong>thanks guys. but isnt that a lawsuit waiting to happen if a significant amount of people all want to go to that school, wouldnt they be in deep $h!t? or do they pull the "we reserve the right to revoke your dreams, aspirations, etc etc. at any time" card on you at that point?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They usually just deal with it. Last year UIC, accepted something like 30-40 too many people, which is why they increased their final cutoff numbers for interviews (less interviews = less acceptances). SIU has a funny process - when you get accepted, the letter actually says "accepted when a spot is available". I'm still not totally clear what this means, but from the sounds of it, you are guaranteed a spot as long as you get one of the first 72 letters. After that, someone has to drop for your acceptance to be valid.

    For the record everyone, the "enrolled" number from US news is the number of people who matriculated to a school. "Acceptances offered" is just that - the TOTAL number of acceptances offered, whether it is an initial acceptance, a waitlist, slept with the dean to get in, hacked into their computers - whatever. You cannot say that the difference between the two is the number pulled of the waitlist - that would fall under acceptances offered. There is no way to get any information about the waitlist from US news data without knowing how many initial acceptances (during interviews) went out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
     

Share This Page