Sep 5, 2015
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I am an RN, GPA is not very good but I am working on finishing a BS and will be bring up my GPA over 2 years. I do not have much extra time at all as I work full time/school full time. I see all these threads with people who have extensive research experience, shadowing physicians, etc. Does having four years of nursing experience help me in my cause?
What should a plan of action be in regard to ECs?
sGPA should be at a 3.4 if I keep doing well, which I will.
I want to get into USUHS. Prior military already. Not sure if it is an easier school to get into or not. Some surgeon friends seem to feel that it is ( they attended USUHS).
Any input is appreciated. Thanks
 
OP
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Thank you for your reply! I still have all of my prereqs left and at least 2 years before I can apply. BUT i just wanted to know if it is a realistic goal. I know I have what it takes, it is just a matter of showing that to them with some tangible evidence
 
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68PGunner

Thank you for your reply! I still have all of my prereqs left and at least 2 years before I can apply. BUT i just wanted to know if it is a realistic goal. I know I have what it takes, it is just a matter of showing that to them with some tangible evidence
Why are you so set on USUHS instead of HPSP?
 
OP
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Sep 5, 2015
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Commissioning and being able to support my wife during medical school, priority with residency, prior military and loved military life so the 7 year commitment is desirable. The biggest thing is the ability to be financially stable without that as a stressor during an already stressful environment. I did my LVN in the Army and liked the schooling structure and support system. I feel that attending a military medical school would not be identical but would mirror the structure I've experienced before
 
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68PGunner

Commissioning and being able to support my wife during medical school, priority with residency, prior military and loved military life so the 7 year commitment is desirable. The biggest thing is the ability to be financially stable without that as a stressor during an already stressful environment. I did my LVN in the Army and liked the schooling structure and support system. I feel that attending a military medical school would not be identical but would mirror the structure I've experienced before
Where is this priority with residency for USUHS grads coming from? I hear it all the time from USUHS students who have zero prior service. This myth isn't factual.

Adjusting for cost of living and other factors involved, the pay difference between a USUHS student and a HPSP student is only about $15,000-20,000 a year. So, that's a total of $60,000-80,000 throughout your med school years. With the extra obligations, you will qualify for the MSP and ISP three years after your HPSP colleagues as a board certified doctor. The annual difference is $50,000 for some specialties and as high as $100,000 for surgical specialties. If you are looking at this from a financial perspective, you are actually losing money.

Also, why are you working on a BS when you already are a RN?

Lastly, if you want a stress free environment during medical school, I dont think USUHS is the right option. At USUHS, you are mandated to attend every lecture in your uniform. You will also be taking additional military classes and doing some extra military training. I'm not quite positive about these things, but that's what I've heard from a few docs that I have worked with in the US Army. These are just small factors that almost make zero impact on people with prior service.

However, due to the military securing your service for 7 years, it's very possible that your first 4-5 years will be somewhere tough (e.g. Ft Irwin).
 
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Where is this priority with residency for USUHS grads coming from? I hear it all the time from USUHS students who have zero prior service. This myth isn't factual.

Adjusting for cost of living and other factors involved, the pay difference between a USUHS student and a HPSP student is only about $15,000-20,000 a year. So, that's a total of $60,000-80,000 throughout your med school years. With the extra obligations, you will qualify for the MSP and ISP three years after your HPSP colleagues as a board certified doctor. The annual difference is $50,000 for some specialties and as high as $100,000 for surgical specialties. If you are looking at this from a financial perspective, you are actually losing money.

Also, why are you working on a BS when you already are a RN?

Lastly, if you want a stress free environment during medical school, I dont think USUHS is the right option. At USUHS, you are mandated to attend every lecture in your uniform. You will also be taking additional military classes and doing some extra military training. I'm not quite positive about these things, but that's what I've heard from a few docs that I have worked with in the US Army. These are just small factors that almost make zero impact on people with prior service.

However, due to the military securing your service for 7 years, it's very possible that your first 4-5 years will be somewhere tough (e.g. Ft Irwin).
USUHS grad here.

Here are the 2014 numbers, directly comparing a USUHS student with dependents to a Georgetown or GW student with dependents.

HPSP:
Annual income = $30,913.11
-- $2178.90 stipend * 10.5 months
-- $2205.00 BAH w/dep DC area * 1.5 months
-- $2905.20 basic pay * 1.5 months
-- $246.24 BAS * 1.5 months
Initial signing bonus = $20,0000
Total 4 Year compensation = $143,652.44

USUHS:
Annual income = $64,276.8
-- $2205.00 BAH w/dep DC area
-- $2905.20 basic pay
-- $246.24 BAS
Added benefit of healthcare for dependents = $300/mo * 4 years =$14,400.00 (extremely conservative estimate)
Total 4 Year compensation = $271,507.2

USUHS - HPSP = $127,854.76

So in order to come out financially ahead with HPSP, you need be a sub-specialist that can sign a 3 year ISP+MSP worth at least $42,618 more per year than the USUHS grad only pulling in a standard ISP. This basically applies only to gen surg, ortho, nsg, rads, anesthesia; all primary care / ER / and pretty much all medicine subspecialties do not pay enough. Other longer term financial benefits of USUHS would include: a) an increased pension after 20 years post med school because of retroactive credit for those 4 years at USUHS, and b) early access to the TSP during med school for putting away tax-advantaged savings.


Also, USUHS students aren't required to attend most lectures during the first couple years.
 
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OP
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Sep 5, 2015
17
2
Where is this priority with residency for USUHS grads coming from? I hear it all the time from USUHS students who have zero prior service. This myth isn't factual.

Adjusting for cost of living and other factors involved, the pay difference between a USUHS student and a HPSP student is only about $15,000-20,000 a year. So, that's a total of $60,000-80,000 throughout your med school years. With the extra obligations, you will qualify for the MSP and ISP three years after your HPSP colleagues as a board certified doctor. The annual difference is $50,000 for some specialties and as high as $100,000 for surgical specialties. If you are looking at this from a financial perspective, you are actually losing money.

Also, why are you working on a BS when you already are a RN?

Lastly, if you want a stress free environment during medical school, I dont think USUHS is the right option. At USUHS, you are mandated to attend every lecture in your uniform. You will also be taking additional military classes and doing some extra military training. I'm not quite positive about these things, but that's what I've heard from a few docs that I have worked with in the US Army. These are just small factors that almost make zero impact on people with prior service.

However, due to the military securing your service for 7 years, it's very possible that your first 4-5 years will be somewhere tough (e.g. Ft Irwin).
A lot of interesting information here.
As far as RN, I am an ADN RN so I do not have a BS.
As far as finances, the post below is providing different information so I'm not sure which is most accurate, I would assume it's the USUHS grad but I will ask the military docs I work with currently.
As far as attending class in uniform or extra military classes, I would enjoy that. Exactly how it was for my enlisted time...
Going somewhere tough for the 7 years following? That may be subjective but I don't know much about that part of it as I do not here that from the physicians I work with.
The residency priority is something that I've heard from USUHS residents that
 

pgg

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Also, if you happen to go to a cheap state school via HPSP, the value of the scholarship is arguably less.
 
OP
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Sep 5, 2015
17
2
USUHS grad here.

Here are the 2014 numbers, directly comparing a USUHS student with dependents to a Georgetown or GW student with dependents.

HPSP:
Annual income = $30,913.11
-- $2178.90 stipend * 10.5 months
-- $2205.00 BAH w/dep DC area * 1.5 months
-- $2905.20 basic pay * 1.5 months
-- $246.24 BAS * 1.5 months
Initial signing bonus = $20,0000
Total 4 Year compensation = $143,652.44

USUHS:
Annual income = $64,276.8
-- $2205.00 BAH w/dep DC area
-- $2905.20 basic pay
-- $246.24 BAS
Added benefit of healthcare for dependents = $300/mo * 4 years =$14,400.00 (extremely conservative estimate)
Total 4 Year compensation = $271,507.2

USUHS - HPSP = $127,854.76

So in order to come out financially ahead with HPSP, you need be a sub-specialist that can sign a 3 year ISP+MSP worth at least $42,618 more per year than the USUHS grad only pulling in a standard ISP. This basically applies only to gen surg, ortho, nsg, rads, anesthesia; all primary care / ER / and pretty much all medicine subspecialties do not pay enough. Other longer term financial benefits of USUHS would include: a) an increased pension after 20 years post med school because of retroactive credit for those 4 years at USUHS, and b) early access to the TSP during med school for putting away tax-advantaged savings.


Also, USUHS students aren't required to attend most lectures during the first couple years.
Thanks for your reply. Did you enjoy your USUHS experience? Did the environment provide for an environment conducive to learning without outside stressors making too much of an impact?
Also, how was your time after USUHS?
I work at a military facility now and the HPSP docs liked their way while the USUHS docs liked their way... It seems to go either way. My BIGGEST concern is providing for my wife and if we end up accidentally pregnant before our planned time frame, I want to ensure they're taken care of. I've been in the Army, they take care of their own.
 
OP
P
Sep 5, 2015
17
2
Also, if you happen to go to a cheap state school via HPSP, the value of the scholarship is arguably less.
Interesting approach, thanks for your reply. I am a Texas resident. There are 7 medical schools in Texas, I believe. UT Health is closest to me. I'm not sure how my odds are of getting into some of these schools. Also, I do really wish to be a military physician. As long as I can provide for my family, I do not really care what my salary is. Obviously that's conditional depending on whether I have student loans or not.
 
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Where is this priority with residency for USUHS grads coming from?
I don't think it is a written rule for USUHS graduates to get mil residencies over HPSP graduates, it just kind of feels that way. USU students can utilize every single one of their clinical rotations at their respective service's residency sites while on O-1 active duty pay, leading to more face time with the PD and the department, which for the most part is more favorable to the USU students without the added burden of balancing finances.

HPSP students can only get one paid rotation per fiscal year so the remaining audition rotations must come out of their own pockets which can be limiting.

USUHS:
Annual income = $64,276.8
-- $2205.00 BAH w/dep DC area
-- $2905.20 basic pay
-- $246.24 BAS
Added benefit of healthcare for dependents = $300/mo * 4 years =$14,400.00 (extremely conservative estimate)
Total 4 Year compensation = $271,507.2
OP will also get O-1E pay at USUHS as well so his base pay will be quite a bit higher. $3692.1 (>4 years)

Interesting approach, thanks for your reply. I am a Texas resident. There are 7 medical schools in Texas, I believe. UT Health is closest to me. I'm not sure how my odds are of getting into some of these schools. Also, I do really wish to be a military physician. As long as I can provide for my family, I do not really care what my salary is. Obviously that's conditional depending on whether I have student loans or not.
Oh Texas! The paradise of medical schools! You might also want to look into the HSCP program and crunch the numbers (since in state tuition is really cheap there). E-6 active duty pay plus the years you are in medical school counts towards retirement. Not sure if the program is still active though...
 
OP
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Sep 5, 2015
17
2
I don't think it is a written rule for USUHS graduates to get mil residencies over HPSP graduates, it just kind of feels that way. USU students can utilize every single one of their clinical rotations at their respective service's residency sites while on O-1 active duty pay, leading to more face time with the PD and the department, which for the most part is more favorable to the USU students without the added burden of balancing finances.

HPSP students can only get one paid rotation per fiscal year so the remaining audition rotations must come out of their own pockets which can be limiting.



OP will also get O-1E pay at USUHS as well so his base pay will be quite a bit higher. $3692.1 (>4 years)



Oh Texas! The paradise of medical schools! You might also want to look into the HSCP program and crunch the numbers (since in state tuition is really cheap there). E-6 active duty pay plus the years you are in medical school counts towards retirement. Not sure if the program is still active though...
Paradise of medical schools... Sarcasm? Something I should know about them?
Interesting... I will look into it for sure. Sounds like the AECP program a little bit.
 
6

68PGunner

USUHS grad here.

Here are the 2014 numbers, directly comparing a USUHS student with dependents to a Georgetown or GW student with dependents.

HPSP:
Annual income = $30,913.11
-- $2178.90 stipend * 10.5 months
-- $2205.00 BAH w/dep DC area * 1.5 months
-- $2905.20 basic pay * 1.5 months
-- $246.24 BAS * 1.5 months
Initial signing bonus = $20,0000
Total 4 Year compensation = $143,652.44

USUHS:
Annual income = $64,276.8
-- $2205.00 BAH w/dep DC area
-- $2905.20 basic pay
-- $246.24 BAS
Added benefit of healthcare for dependents = $300/mo * 4 years =$14,400.00 (extremely conservative estimate)
Total 4 Year compensation = $271,507.2

USUHS - HPSP = $127,854.76

So in order to come out financially ahead with HPSP, you need be a sub-specialist that can sign a 3 year ISP+MSP worth at least $42,618 more per year than the USUHS grad only pulling in a standard ISP. This basically applies only to gen surg, ortho, nsg, rads, anesthesia; all primary care / ER / and pretty much all medicine subspecialties do not pay enough. Other longer term financial benefits of USUHS would include: a) an increased pension after 20 years post med school because of retroactive credit for those 4 years at USUHS, and b) early access to the TSP during med school for putting away tax-advantaged savings.


Also, USUHS students aren't required to attend most lectures during the first couple years.
Your calculation is mostly on spot for a single dude. Let's say he's married with a wife and two kids. He is automatically qualified for free healthcare through Medicaid and possibly $200 monthly snap benefit. Therefore, the gap would be closer to $100,000 instead of your number.

That would mean about $35,000 per year in Msp and ISP to break even. For a specialty like family practice, Isp stays the same w a four year msp being 38,000. For specialties like ortho or rad, the annual difference is bet $60,000-70,000.
 
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68PGunner

Your option could be either ways depending on your med school option. However, let's say that you feel strongly about serving so we could eliminate that factor immediately.

1) If you get an acceptance to your state Texas school, I would take the hscp from the navy.
2) If you get accepted to a school w high tuition and high cost of living vs usuhs, I would do usuhs.
3) If you get accepted to a school w a los cost of living vs usuhs, I would do hpsp for the shorter commitment and extra flexibility with your family. The increase in money from usuhs matters less bc you could buy more w that 35,000 a year at a small town vs stuff from dc.
 
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68PGunner

I don't think it is a written rule for USUHS graduates to get mil residencies over HPSP graduates, it just kind of feels that way. USU students can utilize every single one of their clinical rotations at their respective service's residency sites while on O-1 active duty pay, leading to more face time with the PD and the department, which for the most part is more favorable to the USU students without the added burden of balancing finances.

HPSP students can only get one paid rotation per fiscal year so the remaining audition rotations must come out of their own pockets which can be limiting.



OP will also get O-1E pay at USUHS as well so his base pay will be quite a bit higher. $3692.1 (>4 years)



Oh Texas! The paradise of medical schools! You might also want to look into the HSCP program and crunch the numbers (since in state tuition is really cheap there). E-6 active duty pay plus the years you are in medical school counts towards retirement. Not sure if the program is still active though...
Is this what you see first hand or is this some myth among premed and med students who have zero military or Amedd exp? I am active duty stationed at a base housing a top 5 med center. Almost all of the residents I see at compdtitive specialties at this location go through hpsp.

Finally, the military will pay for two auditions. However, if your civ med school is close to one of these training med centers, it won't matter much. You could arrange all of your auditions at this med center.
 

pgg

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USUHS students only have an "advantage" for the PGY-1 year since they must do intern year at a MTF. HPSP'ers can get civ deferrals for intern year. This doesn't mean that USUHS grads are guaranteed the intern position they want ... just that they are guaranteed SOME position.

For the PGY-2 match, there's no USUHS advantage. You have to realize that the GME selection board has a fairly rigid point system, which the Navy follows to a fault. (The Army and AF are supposed to do the same, but they seem to have a knack for deciding who they want and then making the points fit.) There are no points for school zip code. To the extent that the PDs can fudge the points, they do so to get the best resident. They don't care how the applicant got his med school tuition paid.
 
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68PGunner

Bottom line is that the financial aspect shouldnt be your number 1 factor bc it's negligible in the long run. I would weigh the following aspects when deciding bet hpsp and usuhs:

1) lifestyle differences - there are huge differences bet the civ route and usuhs. I don't know much bc I have decided not to do usuhs.
2) flexibility - there is a huge diff between being stuck in the military for 7 years vs 4 years if you hate the military.
3) family support - you will need more than your wife support throughout this journey.
4) cultural differences - dc is def diff than Texas.
 
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Paradise of medical schools... Sarcasm? Something I should know about them?
No sarcasm here haha. Low tuition for instate, good reputation/education, slightly easier (?) numbers for matriculation. I mean, I'm a CA resident so any state besides mine is a paradise for admission into medical school.

Is this what you see first hand or is this some myth among premed and med students who have zero military or Amedd exp?
Naw, just something that I muse around in my head. :)

Almost all of the residents I see at compdtitive specialties at this location go through hpsp.
This could also be the result of numbers as well. Navy graduates some 250 new physicians every year but only 50 of them are from USUHS. So it can be entirely likely you only see HPSP grads simply because they outnumbered the USU grads.

Finally, the military will pay for two auditions.
Right, but only once per fiscal year. So realistically you only get one audition rotation before submitting one's ERAS application and then you follow another one up after October. Also if for some reason one missed the summer officer training it is entirely likely that one of the "audition" rotations will be used up for that instead. Met plenty of people that had to do that.


However, if your civ med school is close to one of these training med centers, it won't matter much. You could arrange all of your auditions at this med center.
Pretty big if unfortunately. ~170 MD/DO schools in the country and most of them are not close to a large MTF.
 

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USUHS MS4 here with prior military time. Compared to real military life, USUHS military stuff is a joke so for someone who is used to it then it isn't s big deal. Also, I spent virtually the entire first 1.5 years in my PJs at home.

When you are married, and especially if you have young ones, don't overlook the value of having health insurance for your family. Other people already mentioned the access to TSP, retirement and pay stuff, but insurance is something you won't get with HPSP.

Now, having said that, you say you are a Texas resident. As someone else said, HPSP loses a lot of value for a state school so USUHS I think is a better option than using HPSP at a state school. However, if you were interesting I. The Navy I would hike suggest you look at the HSCP program. Total winner for folks with prior service, Post 9/11 GI Bill and a state school acceptance.
 
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Your option could be either ways depending on your med school option. However, let's say that you feel strongly about serving so we could eliminate that factor immediately.

1) If you get an acceptance to your state Texas school, I would take the hscp from the navy.
2) If you get accepted to a school w high tuition and high cost of living vs usuhs, I would do usuhs.
3) If you get accepted to a school w a los cost of living vs usuhs, I would do hpsp for the shorter commitment and extra flexibility with your family. The increase in money from usuhs matters less bc you could buy more w that 35,000 a year at a small town vs stuff from dc.
Thank you for your input. I will take all into consideration.
Now, I am an ADN as previously stated and my GPA isn't super awesome. However, I do have 6 undergrad sciences to take before I graduate and can bring my sGPA from 2.94 to about a 3.4 if all As. Postbac work is obviously not desirable but I understand the benefits.
USUHS MS4 here with prior military time. Compared to real military life, USUHS military stuff is a joke so for someone who is used to it then it isn't s big deal. Also, I spent virtually the entire first 1.5 years in my PJs at home.

When you are married, and especially if you have young ones, don't overlook the value of having health insurance for your family. Other people already mentioned the access to TSP, retirement and pay stuff, but insurance is something you won't get with HPSP.

Now, having said that, you say you are a Texas resident. As someone else said, HPSP loses a lot of value for a state school so USUHS I think is a better option than using HPSP at a state school. However, if you were interesting I. The Navy I would hike suggest you look at the HSCP program. Total winner for folks with prior service, Post 9/11 GI Bill and a state school acceptance.
Is the selection process for USUHS rigid? There are very few threads on this site that address anything regarding USUHS matriculation.
 
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68PGunner

Considering your prior service status, I think you will get an II with a 3.4 and at least 70 percentile on your mcat.
 
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DrMetal

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I got a nice T-shirt outta USUHS. I PT in it all the time on the flight deck. It's got some kind of 'skull ad cross bones' design, not very medicine-like, but its 100% cotton, feels good.
 
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