USyd Residency MATCHES in the US

[Macguyver83]

I am interviewing with USyd in October, and could not find any definitive lists of placed residencies in the US. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what residencies one can expect coming out of USyd, as well as what people have placed in prior years?


-Thanks

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[spherical]

I am interviewing with USyd in October, and could not find any definitive lists of placed residencies in the US. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what residencies one can expect coming out of USyd, as well as what people have placed in prior years?


-Thanks

What's that? Welcome to a whole 'nother world.

If this is a priority, look elsewhere!

 

[Macguyver83]

What's that? Welcome to a whole 'nother world.

If this is a priority, look elsewhere!

I really meant no dis-respect, I have frequented this site for a while. I dont think that what I said deserved your response. Could somebody with some credibility attempt this question, perhaps pitman, kimberly cox, or anyone who knows what to anticipate in terms of residency matches in the US coming out of Oz (or USyd in particular) ?

- Thanks

 

[pitman]

I think you'll find that the most negative 2-3 posters on the forums are very bitter and have the habit of putting down all that's Australian. I get the feeling they failed out of med, were kicked out for mental health reasons, or failed the USMLE and for some reason just gave up, BUT they too tend to claim that they rocked the USMLE and got superstar residencies (since they'd have to be exceptions to their rule when trashing Australia, right?) -or- outright refuse to state where they're actually talking about (using the nice generic "At [all] Australian schools...", which is like someone saying, "At all American schools.." or "At all UK schools...").

Both Flinders and UQ are only now starting to track their int'l students, and I'm pretty sure they're the most on the ball with this. There's nothing nefarious about this, they've only graduated int'ls since 2000 (Flinders, the first grad program) and 2002 (UQ). UQ also has not had more than 3-4 n americans per year until this year's second year, but those few who took USMLE apparently did quite well and are back in the US (I know about residents at Mayo, Tufts and Colorado) or passed and are still students (about 10 total n americans have taken and passed), except for 1 current student who failed and will be retaking.

Flinders has a longer history of n american students and has some basic stats reported in other threads.

As flindophile has stated, many students choose to stay here. I can't speak for other schools, but the ones i know about who've stayed here after UQ have stayed b.c. they wanted to (typically marriage) and not because they tried and failed USMLE or US res placement. After all, the n americans are a self-selected bunch who are more likely to want to be here once they graduate. Makes perfect sense, except to a troll.

Next year there WILL be more work in this area (tracking students) -- I've become somewhat active in int'l student issues, and will likely do so at the int'l level, in part to shut those up who can only give generalizations or easily refuted antecdotes (e.g., Asians all fail b.c. of racism, n americans fail so schools can get more $, majority fail USMLE, and other crappola). USyd in particular should have some numbers to show, and either the school will do this or the students will...

-pitman

 

[spherical]

One must understand that matching in the US is not a priority at USyd. Now, why don't you just ask Usyd what the situation is? Are they not giving you solid answers?! (You are unlikely to find good numbers here.) If a school refuses to address this issue (and it is important to you), then I'd think really hard about shelling out the cash.

Also, it would be wise to interview in Sydney. Take a good look around. Go to teaching sessions in each of the years. Ask a lot of questions. Are you getting dodgy answers? Make sure you feel 100% about it and feel like you have trust in the system. You are unlikely to really get good "numbers" (However, Usyd does know how many of its N. American international graduates from this past year are in NSW doing internships -- most of them.)

 

[JBA]

I am interviewing with USyd in October, and could not find any definitive lists of placed residencies in the US. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what residencies one can expect coming out of USyd, as well as what people have placed in prior years?


-Thanks

I don't think there is going to be any real satisfying answer to your question. I am finishing second year now and had some of the same concerns as you. First off the Faculty has only recently begun to collect data on international grads and their post-grad placements so it will be a few years before any conclusions can be made. Flinder's is probably the best source since they have had international students enrolled for the longest time. As of now, UQ has only recently started to admit larger numbers and USyd/UMelb will also have had relatively few grads to get good numbers from.

What I can tell you is that of the 5 students that enrolled in the US match after graduating from USyd in 2004 all matched. 2 matched in IM, one matched ortho, one matched ENT and the last match was in FM I think. All were at reputable programs. The other international students are now doing internships in Australia either for personal reasons or because they did not attempt the match.

I guess all you can really expect is that USyd will give you the degree and experience you need to match. Completing deadlines, getting through the USMLE, finding references etc. that is up to you. But contrary to what others may have you believe these tasks are up to you no matter where you study be it US, Ireland, Australia, Canada etc. Good luck with the interview!

 

[pitman]

However, Usyd does know how many of its N. American international graduates from this past year are in NSW doing internships -- most of them.

If true, this actually means (and really the only thing it means) that it's not difficult getting internship in NSW as an int'l student, contrary to what some dingos here have been claiming. That would be very nice indeed, since to stay in Oz the hurdle is getting internship.

 

[Macguyver83]

I don't think there is going to be any real satisfying answer to your question. I am finishing second year now and had some of the same concerns as you. First off the Faculty has only recently begun to collect data on international grads and their post-grad placements so it will be a few years before any conclusions can be made. Flinder's is probably the best source since they have had international students enrolled for the longest time. As of now, UQ has only recently started to admit larger numbers and USyd/UMelb will also have had relatively few grads to get good numbers from.

What I can tell you is that of the 5 students that enrolled in the US match after graduating from USyd in 2004 all matched. 2 matched in IM, one matched ortho, one matched ENT and the last match was in FM I think. All were at reputable programs. The other international students are now doing internships in Australia either for personal reasons or because they did not attempt the match.

I guess all you can really expect is that USyd will give you the degree and experience you need to match. Completing deadlines, getting through the USMLE, finding references etc. that is up to you. But contrary to what others may have you believe these tasks are up to you no matter where you study be it US, Ireland, Australia, Canada etc. Good luck with the interview!

JBA,

That is some pretty welcomed news. I went to Sydney back in 2003 and studied for a semester, met some med students. Is the Canadian blonde body-builder guy still in the faculty? I am really curious about the interview; what questions they ask and how to approach them successfully? Are you doing any roations back in the US as a Sydney student, and what is the maximum time in the US you are permitted to spend?

-Thanks again

P.S. Pitman....those trolls have to find a new bridge to live under....keep them on there toes brother

 

[JBA]

JBA,

That is some pretty welcomed news. I went to Sydney back in 2003 and studied for a semester, met some med students. Is the Canadian blonde body-builder guy still in the faculty? I am really curious about the interview; what questions they ask and how to approach them successfully? Are you doing any roations back in the US as a Sydney student, and what is the maximum time in the US you are permitted to spend?

-Thanks again

P.S. Pitman....those trolls have to find a new bridge to live under....keep them on there toes brother

I'm not too sure about the body-builder. As far as the interview goes the questions I was asked were pretty straightforward. "Why do you want to do medicine?" 'What are positives/negatives of practicing medicine?" "What is PBL and how would you be an assest to it?" I can't remember the others but there were none that really threw me off. Be yourself and don't just try to tell them what you think they want to hear...cause you'll never know what that is.
As for rotations in the US, we are allowed to do 12 weeks of electives at the end of third year, 9 weeks during 4th year and then you may also do your pre-internship term overseas which is done at the end of 4th year around Sept. and lasts for about 6-8 weeks. So there is ample opportunity to get letters of recommendation etc. Plus, keep in mind that the vast majority of consultants in Australia will have done some training in the US and therefore can be a useful source as a reference or at least networking. Hope this helps with your decision. It's a big one so don't make it without being sure.

 

[canucker]

What I can tell you is that of the 5 students that enrolled in the US match after graduating from USyd in 2004 all matched. 2 matched in IM, one matched ortho, one matched ENT and the last match was in FM I think. All were at reputable programs. The other international students are now doing internships in Australia either for personal reasons or because they did not attempt the match.

Wow, that's pretty impressive, especially the ortho and ENT matches. Were any of those students fellow Canucks, by any chance?

 

[spherical]

What I can tell you is that of the 5 students that enrolled in the US match after graduating from USyd in 2004 all matched. 2 matched in IM, one matched ortho, one matched ENT and the last match was in FM I think. All were at reputable programs.

.
If this is true (what's the source?), this amounts to about 15% of the North Americans in this graduating class. It should be noted that a large proportion of Asian national international students shoot for jobs in the US, so 15% may actually overestimate the "success" of N. Americans in achieving match! Furthermore, there are a few local (Australian) students hoping for jobs in the US.

Please name these "reputable programs"? If we have this information, we can verify the claimed placements with the programs involved.

And the other >85% chickened out of the process to become limited-time only, prevocational scut puppies in underserved areas where no Australian would go? Non-transferable experience -- a wasted year or two. Just to bide their time -- until they get up the nerve to take the exams/enter the match or just quit the medicine thing.

And it's official now, starting in 2006, there aren't enough intern spots for all the international slackers who aren't in any kind of shape to match at home. In the last couple years, local intakes have been adjusted to meet anticipated future demands, so in the future those 85% will likely be out in the cold!

In anycase, grim stats.

 

[JBA]

.
If this is true (what's the source?), this amounts to about 15% of the North Americans in this graduating class. It should be noted that a large proportion of Asian national international students shoot for jobs in the US, so 15% may actually overestimate the "success" of N. Americans in achieving match! Furthermore, there are a few local (Australian) students hoping for jobs in the US.

Please name these "reputable programs"? If we have this information, we can verify the claimed placements with the programs involved.

And the other >85% chickened out of the process to become limited-time only, prevocational scut puppies in underserved areas where no Australian would go? Non-transferable experience -- a wasted year or two. Just to bide their time -- until they get up the nerve to take the exams/enter the match or just quit the medicine thing.

And it's official now, starting in 2006, there aren't enough intern spots for all the international slackers who aren't in any kind of shape to match at home. In the last couple years, local intakes have been adjusted to meet anticipated future demands, so in the future those 85% will likely be out in the cold!

In anycase, grim stats.

The source is my personal knowledge/relationships with these students who are now working in the US. I don't think it's appropriate for me to list out their names on this forum so that you can verify that program x has matched student y from Sydney. Suffice it to say that all the programs that were matched into were University affilitated and without doubt would have received applications from competitive applicants who graduated in the US.
There is little truth to the claim that the majority of Asian students who come to Sydney for med want to go the US for training. From my knowledge of those in my class and the years above below me, most want to stay in Australia or plan to return to their home country. None of the 5 matches were from Asian countries. All were from Canada or the US. And a further 3 students did not go through the US match but instead matched in Canada.
Personally I have little interest in staying in Australia for internship and have never really considered it an option. But I do know of around 10 North American students who are interning at major teaching hospitals in Sydney. So contrary to what our good friend Spherical would have you believe it is possible. Sadly, it seems the student who got the least out of their USyd expericence is Spherical him/herself. Probably just didn't have the work ethic or foresight to see the effort needed to make things happen the way you have planned.
Attending med school abroad is a risk...no question. Matching to solid programs though is still very possible, you just have to work for it. From my experience Spherical is likely the "pre-vocational scutpuppy" he/she speaks so highly of. I'm sure others on this forum would agree.

 

[Cziffra]

The source is my personal knowledge/relationships with these students who are now working in the US. I don't think it's appropriate for me to list out their names on this forum so that you can verify that program x has matched student y from Sydney. Suffice it to say that all the programs that were matched into were University affilitated and without doubt would have received applications from competitive applicants who graduated in the US.
There is little truth to the claim that the majority of Asian students who come to Sydney for med want to go the US for training. From my knowledge of those in my class and the years above below me, most want to stay in Australia or plan to return to their home country. None of the 5 matches were from Asian countries. All were from Canada or the US. And a further 3 students did not go through the US match but instead matched in Canada.
Personally I have little interest in staying in Australia for internship and have never really considered it an option. But I do know of around 10 North American students who are interning at major teaching hospitals in Sydney. So contrary to what our good friend Spherical would have you believe it is possible. Sadly, it seems the student who got the least out of their USyd expericence is Spherical him/herself. Probably just didn't have the work ethic or foresight to see the effort needed to make things happen the way you have planned.
Attending med school abroad is a risk...no question. Matching to solid programs though is still very possible, you just have to work for it. From my experience Spherical is likely the "pre-vocational scutpuppy" he/she speaks so highly of. I'm sure others on this forum would agree.

Yes; absolutely agree