UT-Southwestern Internal Medicine

[gdogg]

I'm addressing this message to those who have interviewed or are planning to interview at UT-Southwestern.

From what I've read and heard from, this program in terms of reputation seems to be ranked among the top 20 programs in nation, and definitely the top in Texas.

However, last year this program did not fill up its spots according to the NRMP website. This is kind of concerning to me as an applicant, and I wanted to raise the question to any of you that might know more about this. I don't know if they addressed this on the interview day or not, but if anybody out there knows anymore please let me know! Thanks.

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[Dr. Corday]

However, last year this program did not fill up its spots according to the NRMP website. This is kind of concerning to me as an applicant, and I wanted to raise the question to any of you that might know more about this. I don't know if they addressed this on the interview day or not, but if anybody out there knows anymore please let me know! Thanks.

Yes, they're one of the top programs and send their residents to top fellowship positions. And yes, they didn't fill last year. It's mostly if not all because of their reputation as a malignant program. Residents work very hard and nobody denies that. If you're on a single intern team which happens often, you can get as many as 10 patients by yourself on call!! They're trying to convert to q5 call to address people's concerns about being overworked. Baylor is another Texas school that is also known for being malignant (a resident actually admitted it to us on interview date).

 

[maddog75]

Yes, they're one of the top programs and send their residents to top fellowship positions. And yes, they didn't fill last year. It's mostly if not all because of their reputation as a malignant program. Residents work very hard and nobody denies that. If you're on a single intern team which happens often, you can get as many as 10 patients by yourself on call!! They're trying to convert to q5 call to address people's concerns about being overworked. Baylor is another Texas school that is also known for being malignant (a resident actually admitted it to us on interview date).

This is a question I am very interested in (see title). Is it simply working hard? What about working hard and getting something out of it. I defined malignancy as when the faculty treats you like cr@p and aren't interested in teaching. I don't think this defines Parkland's program. For comparison, I went to a "cush" program at Northwestern and felt that they were missing something in their education (and was told so by my faculty interviewer) due to the call schedule. (for the record, I don't mean to beat down on Northwestern, I think they have an excellent program and their fellowship match shows that). It's a personal choice. Yes, you will work hard at Parkland. Will you get extra out of it? Yes (I believe)

 

[Dr. Corday]

Malignancy means different things to different people. This is what I meant by it:
1) Residents work harder than average on the wards (less time for research and reading)
2) More sense of hierarchy, you listen to your resident who listens to the chief/attending who listens to the .....: ie. less disent and "don't rock the boat"
3) More sense of "suck it up if it's hard, you'll be a better doctor if we give you tough love".

Hope it helps. Some people love this environment and thrive in it, others don't. You just have to figure out what you like better. Malignant more or less means closer to being in the military. That may sound extreme but I just mean on a relative spectrum.

 

[DoctorDo-Little]

I'm a 4th year at UTSW, and I truely believe that the medicine program is awesome. I've seen a few other programs via interviews and did an away rotation at Columbia (also an awesome program), and this has only increased my appreciation for Southwestern. The housestaff is great - good doctors, good teachers, friendly people. The attendings are strong and provide a lot of teaching. The conferances are really good and are well "protected." Most importantly, Parkland is amazing - the volume and variety of patients is probably the greatest asset of the program. Of course, it's a county hospital, so don't expect shiny new facilities. Also, the VA and private hospital offer vastly different experiences.

As far as not filling last year - basically, they were a little too selective about giving out interviews, and ended up shooting themselves in the foot. The program is huge, and I believe in the near future they're going to scale back the size of the program - I guess to choose quality over quantity. Having spent some time interviewing on the East coast, I've seen that there's definitely a tendency of people to overlook UTSW because of it's location. A lot of students are doing the West Coast-East Coast thing, and ignoring everything in between (except for maybe blowing through the windy city), which is too bad for UTSW.

 

[souljah1]

I've heard fantastic things about UTSW -specifically the clinical training and how well the residents are prepared for fellowship. It is a 'top 10' program for IM. My mentor who sits on a fellowship selection committee raves about the residents who come out of UTSW. It is known here as a powerhouse for clinical training, largely attributed to Parkland.

I do think that the comments about location are correct. Most students at my school excluded UTSW based soley on its location. Maybe if it was in Austin, it would be a different story. I'm sure east coasters look upon Texas in a similar light.

I have heard that the residents there work incredibly hard. A lot of people look at hard work as malignancy, but I don't. I see malignancy as lack of respect, constant scut that doesn't provide learning, and poor teamwork amongst the housestaff. I haven't heard any thing specifically discussing these things concerning UTSW. A resident here went to school there and he did say that the volume at Parkland is insane, and that can wear you down after a while. But, I don't want to *****-foot it through residency so I don't mind busting my ass once in a while.

When I heard about them not filling, I assumed it was because they didn't interview enough people from vaired locations. I plan on checking them out later in January, but my wife and I can't realistically see ourselves living in Dallas.

 

[Broken Ankles]

... I plan on checking them out later in January, but my wife and I can't realistically see ourselves living in Dallas.

i was just wondering what perception you have of dallas. i haven't been around much and would like to get a feel for what makes certain cities more dynamic, or more attractive, than others. and i realize how subjective this question is.

 

[BStein76]

i was just wondering what perception you have of dallas. i haven't been around much and would like to get a feel for what makes certain cities more dynamic, or more attractive, than others. and i realize how subjective this question is.

I enjoyed my interview at UTSW; I enjoyed the independence given to residents rather than following the orders of a private attending. Sure you will work hard as an intern, but you are rewarded with autonomy. Dallas is more of a driving city and parking is pretty ample. The summers supposedly are pretty hot, but not Death Valley hot; for the most part you will be in air conditioning anyways. The city is pretty diverse; probably skewed towards hispanics, much less asian-americans than California. The city is very affordable on a house officer budget and many own houses. The people are older in Dallas than other cities such as SF, NYC, Seattle, LA. The city is newer so building/housing is much nicer than older cities (SF, Chicago, NYC, Philly, LA). People were friendly (much more than East Coast). The city is spread out and the public transportation probably is not as well-developed as cities on the East Coast. For me, cities that are more "dynamic" have a younger population, diverse restaurants (i.e. not all chains), distinct neighborhoods with personality, diverse population, IKEA/ipod stores within a driving distance, other subjective stuff...

 

[pufftissue]

This is the truth: work hard as in L.A. County USC hard, get scutted, and get great teaching. The faculty think their reputation is second-to-none, except that no one else outside Tx thinks that or has even heard of the medical school. I am no exaggerating. Good training, objectively, but don't expect to be recognized on the E or W coasts for it. I think grads console themselves thinking that they got top 10 training (which they probably did), but get miffed that they're not recognized for it. Sure, UTSW is recognized already as one of the top tier programs, but for anyone to say it's going to be a household name in our lifetime, is deluding themselves. I.e., I do think UTSW is better than Northwestern, but you're not going to get recognized for it. Reps take decades to build up.

 

[sacrament]

This is the truth: work hard as in L.A. County USC hard, get scutted, and get great teaching. The faculty think their reputation is second-to-none, except that no one else outside Tx thinks that or has even heard of the medical school. I am no exaggerating. Good training, objectively, but don't expect to be recognized on the E or W coasts for it. I think grads console themselves thinking that they got top 10 training (which they probably did), but get miffed that they're not recognized for it. Sure, UTSW is recognized already as one of the top tier programs, but for anyone to say it's going to be a household name in our lifetime, is deluding themselves. I.e., I do think UTSW is better than Northwestern, but you're not going to get recognized for it. Reps take decades to build up.

Well, UTSW inarguably doesn't have the same name-recognition as some other "top" programs, but here at my west coast school it definitely gets respect. Our PD recommends it in his short-list of "top" program for "top" applicants to consider, and on two occasions when I've mentioned to faculty that I'm interviewing there, I got extremely positive responses. Maybe there is some odd pipeline between the two institutions, but I don't think it's totally accurate to say that nobody outside of Texas holds UTSW in high esteem.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

Well, UTSW inarguably doesn't have the same name-recognition as some other "top" programs, but here at my west coast school it definitely gets respect. Our PD recommends it in his short-list of "top" program for "top" applicants to consider, and on two occasions when I've mentioned to faculty that I'm interviewing there, I got extremely positive responses. Maybe there is some odd pipeline between the two institutions, but I don't think it's totally accurate to say that nobody outside of Texas holds UTSW in high esteem.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3198887#post3198887

Which brings up the question: How can a program so good have to contract by 9 spots in the absence of funding concerns?

 

[kobester]

I love all the slamming that goes on here.

I interviewed there early in the season and was blown away. The clinical training there impressed me as much as any place I visited, and Parkland hospital is amazing. The program has an awesome reputation from many attendings I speak to on the interview trail, and really impressive fellowship placement. The residents I met were all cool, the medical center was impressive, and all the teaching I observed was top notch.

All this stuff about not filling, contraction wouldn't bother me too much. Many top programs don't fill, and it happens all the time. In the case of UTSW, I think it has to do with location as much as anything. With regards to contraction, I heard that they are phasing out the VA, which seems to be unpopular among the residents (who needs it when they have Parkland).

If you are open to living in Dallas (actually a very nice city), then you should definitely visit before making any decisions based on negative vibes some people are throwing at the program.

 

[nartiad]

hi i'm a MS4 at utsw and this is what i've been told regarding the unfilled spots last year:

last year, utsw absorbed st. paul hospital's IM residency program thereby increasing the number of PGY-1 spots by 12 or so. they underestimated the number of applicants they'd have to rank to fill the larger class size. apparently this is not an uncommon occurrence when programs increase their size (has happened to john hopkins in the past.)

in upcoming years, they plan on scaling back the class size as the hospitalist program develops at parkland and st. paul.

 

[DiaHuq]

I'm an east coast girl,grew up in maryland and spent alot of time in manhattan and d.c., and two years ago I moved to Dallas, and I thought I would hate it. But now that I'm getting interviews in other places especially on the east coast, I don't feel like moving. I never thought I'd ever say that. It's cheap living, the standard of living I'm used to here, I could never afford in new york or california. There is no state tax, and there is a young and diverse population once you find them. If you're a single guy, there is a huge single's scene and one thing dallas girls are good at it's being sexy. and there are more restaurants and shopping per square foot than any other city in the u.s., and yes there are a lot of chain restaurants, but my husband and I eat out 3-4 days a week and we don't go to chains, there are lots of restaurants to eat at and new ones open all the time, Club scene doesn't compare with new york,l.a. or d.c. but you know what as an intern you don't get much time and what we have isn't bad.

Many of my friends are at utsw and they work damn hard but they are prepared for anything, you get such diverse pathology at Parkland and it's such a huge program. I think it was ranked 9th nationally and I know for a fact it's recognized on the coasts by those who actually are in the know. At utsw Internal medicine is god and the other programs secondary. they take 50 residents per year and are very selective which is why they didn't match last year.

 

[enigma1800]

Hey, 2 quick questions:

How does UTSW compare to UT-Houston?

And if the IM program at UTSW is treated like "GOD", do other programs get any respect such as Fam. Med?

 

[thefunk]

Hey, 2 quick questions:

How does UTSW compare to UT-Houston?

And if the IM program at UTSW is treated like "GOD", do other programs get any respect such as Fam. Med?

While I don't know much about UT Houston's IM program, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that UTSW's Family Medicine is definitely overshadowed by the IM department. The irony is that UTSW IM seems to be almost entirely focused on the pursuit of fellowships, while FM is designed to be primary care. Why they can't get along better is something of a mystery to me, since it's not as if they overlap all that much in what they're trying to accomplish.

 

[pitstains00]

It cracks me up that people believe the qualtiy of a program is directly related to its proximity to either the Pacific or Atlantic. Nevermind the training, patient population, or diversity of pathology. I definitely would rather live in a city with an elevated cost of living, elevated cirme rate, and equal level of training just because I can say I live there. It's fine, middle America is used to be underestimated while quietly dominating the country (see the Democrats and USC).

'stain

 

[bpwilli5]

Regarding the question of UT-Houston vs UTSW. As a student at UT-H, I was very un-impressed with UTSW's IM program. They have a very large IM program but the facilities are very old. Much of their reputation is based on basic science research and they try to sell the fact that they have 4 Nobel prize winners (all PhD's). They do have a good patient population but not as diverse as that of UT-Houston. I will not even rank UTSW in fear of matching there.

 

[maddog75]

I think comparing the diversity of the two programs (UT houston vs UTSW) is difficult especially after seeing only one side of the coin. I think both offer a very diverse patient population that you will be unlikely to see at most programs. UTSW does have 4 Nobel laureates, but that should not be a reason to rank them. They have a research name which far excedes UTHouston's. In the world of fellowships, recommendation letters will get you places and the people (and who they know and how they are viewed by their peers) that write your letters will be the most important factor. Compare UT Houston's match list in competitve specialties vs Southwestern.

Parkland is old and smelly. Parking is however readily available unlike at Ut-houston. If you don't mind losing 30 minutes of your daily life to getting from your car to your new hospital, then pick UT-Houston. Oh yes and when you get there you will be hungry because they don't feed you (unlike UTSW).

On to other matters, teaching conferences are excellent at UTSW. The actual experience of doctoring is yours at UTSW. You will learn by doing, not by reading or watching.

I'm not trying to put down UT-houston. All of the residents I met there were very nice, all the faculty seemed great, and I'm sure they provide a good teaching experience through their diverse population and hospital. However, if you want to attack the age of the building at UTSW, then there is also a great deal to be said about the lack of parking and lack of daily free lunches at UTHouston.

 

[potato51]

Regarding the question of UT-Houston vs UTSW. As a student at UT-H, I was very un-impressed with UTSW's IM program. They have a very large IM program but the facilities are very old. Much of their reputation is based on basic science research and they try to sell the fact that they have 4 Nobel prize winners (all PhD's). They do have a good patient population but not as diverse as that of UT-Houston. I will not even rank UTSW in fear of matching there.

They are NOT all PhD's. The four Nobel Laureates at UTSW are a PhD (Deisenhofer), 2 MD's (Brown & Goldstein), and a MD PhD (Gilman).