Both are terrific programs in Texas. Anyone who has had experiences interviewing or doing residency at either program care to comment?
My thoughts on BCM is that it has been slipping considerably over the past few years...
I went to medical school at one and am doing IM residency at the other, so I feel somewhat qualified to respond. I'm on an ambulatory month, and hell, I'm a little bored Anyway, here's one man's opinion:
This "debate" is probably a little indicative of the absurd hair-splitting that often occurs on SDN. Fact is, both programs are part of a large pack of 30 or so schools that are similar in reputation and training, and anyone who claims a significant difference between the two in those areas probably just has an ax to grind.
As far as clinical training, the bread and butter general medicine experience at both schools is incredibly similar given the gold-standard public/VA axis that both possess, though I think there are a few wrinkles differentiating the two. At UTSW, you will get much more ICU experience, especially during the second year; whether that makes any difference to you would be determined by if you really think that training is necessary for your future career plans (for most people it's not). At Baylor, there is a nice private hospital experience at St. Luke's that gives residents a different perspective and more exposure to cutting-edge devices/practices, especially at THI. Again, not as important as the VA/Ben Taub experience, but a bonus.
As far as "prestige" and fellowship match, I'd say both are pretty close. There is no doubt that losing Methodist (while not affecting the clinical experience at Baylor one bit), definitely drew many really big faculty names out of the Baylor fold, which undoubtedly affected resident research opportunities, and in turn perhaps did give the fellowship match a little hit. However, the days of BCM's financial future truly being up the air are no more, and probably haven't really been a worry for the last 3 or 4 years (even the abandoned Baylor Hospital building is slowly being opened up, FWIW). Anyway, I don' t think matching cardiology or GI is an issue from either school, and I think you'll be able to do essentially whatever you want to do from either.
As far as overall gestalt, there is a difference in culture. UTSW, while not "malignant", is undoubtedly a more hard-driving place, with more emphasis placed on academic medicine during rounds and elsewhere, and I did feel the faculty there demanded more of the medical students and residents. Baylor is a "nicer" place, where I do feel the residents are a little happier, however I'll say something may be lost educationally when you're not being pushed to your limit.
In the end, that's probably what I'd make my decision on - which culture you think you'd thrive in - because the clinical experience and fellowship match are probably a wash and the issues of BCM's stability are moot in 2012.
Anyway, just the opinion of a guy who has first-hand opinions of both places, I'd be interested to know what others think.
LOL. I've talked to several physicians from TX familiar with Baylor's situation and it is far from "a moot point in 2012." in short, the Baylor program is bankrupt. Regardless, I think you've said what everyone needs to hear hear:
"I'll say something may be lost educationally when you're not being pushed to your limit."
As the quality residents and fellows migrate, so too will the fellowship opportunities.
While it's clear from your needlessly sarcastic response that you've already made up your mind on this topic, I thought I'd respond just to clear up some of these issues for other people that are reading.
No doubt, Baylor was in a ****ty place financially back in 2007 when the credit crisis hit. But ever since the new president was brought in in 2010, things have turned around quite a bit. The college is pretty close to breaking even on the budget this year, and like I said, will be opening up the previously abandoned Baylor Hospital building and moving the entire Baylor Clinic practice there over the next year.
Here is a nice interview with the BCM president from last year, which I think highlights most of these issues in layman's terms, though it's a little old:
http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-24-11-paul-klotman-baylor-interview/
I'd be curious to know what objective data you have that backs up your assertions that BCM is currently bankrupt? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious about and trying to learn more about the situation there.
As far as the fellowship opportunities "migrating"; BCM provides a fellowship match list on interview day, which doesn't look too shabby to my eyes. Again, it's easy to speak in terms of hearsay or insinuation, but I try my best to stick to the facts.
Anyway, like I've said, I have experience at both places and don't really have a horse in the race. I think both are great programs, just that different kinds of people would fit in better at each.
I went to medical school at one and am doing IM residency at the other, so I feel somewhat qualified to respond. I'm on an ambulatory month, and hell, I'm a little bored Anyway, here's one man's opinion:
This "debate" is probably a little indicative of the absurd hair-splitting that often occurs on SDN. Fact is, both programs are part of a large pack of 30 or so schools that are similar in reputation and training, and anyone who claims a significant difference between the two in those areas probably just has an ax to grind.
As far as clinical training, the bread and butter general medicine experience at both schools is incredibly similar given the gold-standard public/VA axis that both possess, though I think there are a few wrinkles differentiating the two. At UTSW, you will get much more ICU experience, especially during the second year; whether that makes any difference to you would be determined by if you really think that training is necessary for your future career plans (for most people it's not). At Baylor, there is a nice private hospital experience at St. Luke's that gives residents a different perspective and more exposure to cutting-edge devices/practices, especially at THI. Again, not as important as the VA/Ben Taub experience, but a bonus.
As far as "prestige" and fellowship match, I'd say both are pretty close. There is no doubt that losing Methodist (while not affecting the clinical experience at Baylor one bit), definitely drew many really big faculty names out of the Baylor fold, which undoubtedly affected resident research opportunities, and in turn perhaps did give the fellowship match a little hit. However, the days of BCM's financial future truly being up the air are no more, and probably haven't really been a worry for the last 3 or 4 years (even the abandoned Baylor Hospital building is slowly being opened up, FWIW). Anyway, I don' t think matching cardiology or GI is an issue from either school, and I think you'll be able to do essentially whatever you want to do from either.
As far as overall gestalt, there is a difference in culture. UTSW, while not "malignant", is undoubtedly a more hard-driving place, with more emphasis placed on academic medicine during rounds and elsewhere, and I did feel the faculty there demanded more of the medical students and residents. Baylor is a "nicer" place, where I do feel the residents are a little happier, however I'll say something may be lost educationally when you're not being pushed to your limit.
In the end, that's probably what I'd make my decision on - which culture you think you'd thrive in - because the clinical experience and fellowship match are probably a wash and the issues of BCM's stability are moot in 2012.
Anyway, just the opinion of a guy who has first-hand opinions of both places, I'd be interested to know what others think.
I don't think my previous response was too sarcastic, I'm just tired of people minimizing the Baylor financial situation. As far as objective data, all I can tell you is that I've talked at length with several MDs who work in the TX healthcare system and they have all universally told me to stay away d/t the current financial situation (yes, bankrupt). I think a quick review of both residency programs would show applicants that UTSW provides a more rigorous training program...I personally believe that even if you are going to be an internist in "the middle of the nowhere" you still will benefit...
Okay this has been discussed ad nauseum.
I recently finished residency at BCM, and have also interviewed in UTSW. Here's the gist:
1. UTSW > BCM for national and regional reputation (but hey - BCM has more NIH money than UTSW in the latest ranking!!! though 200M vs. 160M will not really affect anything and no one cares!). If you rank UTSW higher than BCM or decide to go to your UTSW interview instead of BCM because it's "better", no one will fault you. That's not to say BCM sucks, but reputation is what it is and everyone knows UTSW's reputation is better. I just tried searching for fellowship matches and only got "2006-2012" matches from UTSW, so I cannot compare the two (you can download ours per year). Our match this year doesn't seem to be as good as previous years, but about 2/3-1/2 of the class decided to do PC/Hospitalist. However, only 1 person (an FMG) did not match among those who did apply. Most everyone got their first choices but I don't think anyone interviewed at big name places (UCSF/MGH/BW/ETC) except for those in low-demand specialties. And before you ask, no one dissuaded anyone from applying.
2. BCM's financial problems are a thing of the past. I personally know and have had frank discussions with higher ups in BCM and St. Luke's about BCM's finances, and we are not in the red anymore. The split was long ago. We may have lost some big name people to Methodist for those golden recommendation letters, but there is still a TON of basic science research going on (see NIH funding above). No effect at all with clinical training. It was so bad there were talks of a TX state bailout years ago - there is no chance of this happening now, but it is reassuring that no way will TX let BCM go down. Aside from all these hearsay, one other big indicator that BCM's finances are much better: we are taking on a LOT of BCM students (who have all the inside info) into our IM residency now. 3-5 years ago, none of them wanted to be here, now there's a good maybe 15-20 of them per year. So, if you avoid BCM just because of RubyRed's "several MD's who work in TX" (who knows how connected they are to the system?), you are doing yourself a disservice.
3. I have never been to UTSW for enough time (just a few hours for interviews) so I cannot compare the two aside from reputation, but I do agree that BCM has a very relaxed atmosphere and it is true that this likely has led to a less "academic" training. Something we should improve on. Also, UTSW grads who are residents in BCM tend to be more "intense", and they admit it too - I don't know if that translates to UTSW residency being more intense (again, I don't know because I didn't train there), but I can imagine a more "intense" residency will force you to be more "academic" like what was postulated above.
Okay. Can we please get rid of this "financial ruin" thing with BCM now? /end rant
PS. Regarding a previous thread asking about UT Houston - Texas Heart is more affiliated with BCM and BCM residents rotate there not UTH residents. So there are no advantages to matching with THI if you are from UTH. UTH does have MD Anderson, and we do not rotate there so that is one advantage of UTH over BCM.
Here's how I would decide between the 2 programs
College football: TCU/SMU > UHouston/Rice, also Dallas gets the nod with Texas/OU and Cotton bowl
Pro football: cowboys have the history and the stadium but the texans more recently have somewhat more success even though I don't know about this past weekend
MLB: rangers with 2 consecutive world series appearances
NBA: mavericks with some more recent success compared to the Hakeem days but James harden may bring some new life to the rockets
NHL: by default dallas
So my conclusion, dallas is overall a better sports city than houston
Ugh, I go back and forth on these two schools. Anyone want to speculate OR provide data on any of the following:
1. Quality of didactics/education
2. Research opportunities/availability/time
2. Responsiveness of the PD
I don't know what kind of data you need but for 1) we have 1 hr of lecture time every day during lunch which ranges from journal club, resident update where you lecture on any medical topic, our infamous popourri, etc in addition to having an ambulatory medicine lecture during each of your plus one weeks 2) every intern/resident gets one month of special elective and those who are pursuing fellowship will use that time for research (out of my classmates going to fellowship pretty much everyone was able to get involved in some form of research) 3) our new PD is one of the nicest people out there and hell bent on listening to every concern/complaint from our housestaff and doing something about it and it has shown
hope that helps
Can anyone comment on the average applicant profile (Step scores, grades, research, etc) that matches at both programs?