UVM ($$$) vs. Texas Tech or Texas A&M

Med School Insiders
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Ja3ger

Ja3ger

The Red Viper
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
180
Reaction score
54
Members don't see this ad.
I know I'm not getting an answer from a pre-med internet forum, but I just wanted to brainstorm...

I'm OOS at all 3 of these places, and any need-based/merit aid is unknown.

I absolutely love virtually everything at UVM except for the cost. It's also not far away from a huge support network. I really do feel that I would thrive and be extremely happy here. I "fit" perfectly at UVM.

No offense to anyone here, but I do not particularly like Tech or A&M. Lubbock kind of scares me, let alone the high probability that I'd spend my last 2 years at Amarillo, Permian Basin, etc. For A&M, it's also difficult to imagine myself living in rural TX (well, relatively rural) for the first 2 years; although I could spend my last 2 years near Austin or Dallas, it's still not guaranteed.

I know UVM isn't known for being a particularly prestigious school, but I also have the impression that Tech and A&M are in the bottom tier - at least in TX. To be honest, it's very, very difficult to see myself living in these areas and attending these schools. Literally the only reason why I would attend them is the cost; the MSAR says the per-year cost difference (not just tuition but total cost of attendance) comes to about 20-30k at most depending on whether I get IS tuition in TX.

I keep hearing so many conflicting opinions on debt everywhere on SDN: GO THE CHEAPEST SCHOOL POSSIBLE versus THIS IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET OVER A 30-40YR CAREER.

What are your thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Ja3ger said:
I know I'm not getting an answer from a pre-med internet forum, but I just wanted to brainstorm...

I'm OOS at all 3 of these places, and any need-based/merit aid is unknown.

I absolutely love virtually everything at UVM except for the cost. It's also not far away from a huge support network. I really do feel that I would thrive and be extremely happy here. I "fit" perfectly at UVM.

No offense to anyone here, but I do not particularly like Tech or A&M. Lubbock kind of scares me, let alone the high probability that I'd spend my last 2 years at Amarillo, Permian Basin, etc. For A&M, it's also difficult to imagine myself living in rural TX (well, relatively rural) for the first two years; although I could spend my last 2 years near Austin or Dallas, it's still not guaranteed.

I know UVM isn't known for being a particularly prestigious school, but I also have the impression that Tech and A&M are in the bottom tier - at least in TX. To be honest, it's very, very difficult to see myself living in these areas and attending these schools. Literally the only reason why I would attend them is the cost; the MSAR says the per-year cost difference (not just tuition but total cost of attendance) comes to about 20-30k at most depending on whether I get IS tuition in TX.

I keep hearing so many conflicting opinions on debt everywhere on SDN: GO THE CHEAPEST SCHOOL POSSIBLE versus THIS IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET OVER A 30-40YR CAREER.
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Go somewhere where you would be happy. You will spend 4 years of your life there and your happiness and fit will make a big difference when you're a stressed out med student. Just my 2 cents.
 
Of most important factors in choosing a medical school, cost and location are usually in the top 3.
Since we are discussing them both, lets make a pros/cons list.

FINANCE
Tech and A&M both offer in state tuition rates and provide you with a $1,000 scholarship.
You will pay OOS costs for tuiton at UVM.

UVM: $58,000/year = $232,000
Tech: $18,000/year = $72,000
A&M: $18,000/year = $72,000

Thats a difference of $160,000. Barely a drop in the bucket.

Even if you take a COA $72,000 (UVM) vs $40,000 (Texas), The cost differential comes out to $128,000. Still not a drop in the bucket. I would rather use that money to buy a nice car or put a hefty mortgage payment on a house.

LOCATION
Vermont will obviously win if you are looking for a big city.

Here are a general list of things that most people look for in cities:

-things to do
-places to party
- restaurants
- social interactions
- amount of clinical exposure based on population size
-weather
-cost of living

While I wont delve into each of those categories, the cost of living has been addressed in prior paragraph. Most of your time will be spent studying/eating/sleeping so i doubt you will be partying/socializing/doing other things. I am sure you will have some time during the week to dedicate to some activity. Most people go out to bars, while others workout, and others still go to a nice restaurant or just relax. All those things can be done at any of the three cities.

The largest factor is what state do you want to live in?
P.S. Texas has no state income tax for when you do your residency here.
 
Ja3ger said:
I know I'm not getting an answer from a pre-med internet forum, but I just wanted to brainstorm...

I'm OOS at all 3 of these places, and any need-based/merit aid is unknown.

I absolutely love virtually everything at UVM except for the cost. It's also not far away from a huge support network. I really do feel that I would thrive and be extremely happy here. I "fit" perfectly at UVM.

No offense to anyone here, but I do not particularly like Tech or A&M. Lubbock kind of scares me, let alone the high probability that I'd spend my last 2 years at Amarillo, Permian Basin, etc. For A&M, it's also difficult to imagine myself living in rural TX (well, relatively rural) for the first 2 years; although I could spend my last 2 years near Austin or Dallas, it's still not guaranteed.

I know UVM isn't known for being a particularly prestigious school, but I also have the impression that Tech and A&M are in the bottom tier - at least in TX. To be honest, it's very, very difficult to see myself living in these areas and attending these schools. Literally the only reason why I would attend them is the cost; the MSAR says the per-year cost difference (not just tuition but total cost of attendance) comes to about 20-30k at most depending on whether I get IS tuition in TX.

I keep hearing so many conflicting opinions on debt everywhere on SDN: GO THE CHEAPEST SCHOOL POSSIBLE versus THIS IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET OVER A 30-40YR CAREER.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Go to UVM.
 
They always say that you should go where you'd be happy, you'd pay off the debt no matter what if you become a doc.

Though, I live in Lubbock now and I also lived in College Station. They're both fine honestly and I have lived primarily in large urban cities. College Station is probably better location since it's close to Austin/Houston but Lubbock is by itself a better town than CS imo because it's much bigger and has anything you need.
 
This is easy. UVM. It sounds like you'd be miserable here in tx. Cost is a factor between schools when you are having a hard time choosing between them which isn't a factor in this case (it seems).
 
Uvm is a great school. The location is probably the safest among all med schools and some survey ranked the med school as the prettiest med school among all schools: md, do, or carribbean
 
I can't argue with anything that's been said. Tough choice OP...

Also consider the 'local mind set' and political climate. Vermont tends to be very 'blue'; rural Texas, very 'red'. If you care much about social policy and lean one way or the other, it's a factor that should be considered.

At 6.8% interest over a ten-year payback term, student loan debt translates roughly into $115/month for every $10,000 in debt, so an incremental cost of roughly $1,500/month for 10 years to go to Vermont over Texas. That's a big nut. But if you think you'd be miserable in rural Texas and that your unhappiness would translate into poor performance -- the difference between FP and ROAD specialties -- then you could justify the difference.
 
Ja3ger said:
I know I'm not getting an answer from a pre-med internet forum, but I just wanted to brainstorm...

I'm OOS at all 3 of these places, and any need-based/merit aid is unknown.

I absolutely love virtually everything at UVM except for the cost. It's also not far away from a huge support network. I really do feel that I would thrive and be extremely happy here. I "fit" perfectly at UVM.

No offense to anyone here, but I do not particularly like Tech or A&M. Lubbock kind of scares me, let alone the high probability that I'd spend my last 2 years at Amarillo, Permian Basin, etc. For A&M, it's also difficult to imagine myself living in rural TX (well, relatively rural) for the first 2 years; although I could spend my last 2 years near Austin or Dallas, it's still not guaranteed.

I know UVM isn't known for being a particularly prestigious school, but I also have the impression that Tech and A&M are in the bottom tier - at least in TX. To be honest, it's very, very difficult to see myself living in these areas and attending these schools. Literally the only reason why I would attend them is the cost; the MSAR says the per-year cost difference (not just tuition but total cost of attendance) comes to about 20-30k at most depending on whether I get IS tuition in TX.

I keep hearing so many conflicting opinions on debt everywhere on SDN: GO THE CHEAPEST SCHOOL POSSIBLE versus THIS IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET OVER A 30-40YR CAREER.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

A few points:

1. Why is everyone saying VT wins if you want a big city? Huh??? VT is the 2nd least populous state in the US; Burlington, where UVM is located, is VT's biggest city and it only has a population of 42,000. That's less than half the population of College Station, and 1/6 the population of Lubbock. Even TEMPLE for crying out loud is significantly larger with a population of of 70,000. VT is known for agriculture & maple syrup, not exactly a mecca of urban sprawl and skyscrapers folks. And if you want to talk about proximity to major metropolitan areas, that's cool, CS/Temple and to a lesser extent Lubbock are all within relatively close proximity to 3 of the 10 biggest cities in the USA. So I don't follow this line of thinking at all (not really directed to OP, rather towards some of the posters ITT).

2. I lived in CS for half a decade. Even at Texas A&M, referred to by some as a "super conservative" college campus, there was a breathtaking diversity of backgrounds, cultures, and races represented, with clubs and interest groups on all sides. What do you expect? It's a campus with 50,000 undergraduates (more than the population of Burlington, VT), the vast majority of whom grew up in Dallas/Houston/San Antonio/Austin suburbs. Another large state school with students of diverse backgrounds and heritages is found in Lubbock.

Now I don't know you and what your preferences are and where you'd be comfortable; only you can be the judge of that. I'm not trying to talk you in to loving the culture of Texas more than that of Vermont. I am simply trying to dispel some of the misconceptions about the culture/atmosphere that others on this thread (I don't know if they've visited/lived in CS or not) are perpetuating.

3. No matter how you slice it, $160,000 is a huge amount of money. At a certain point, yes, your immediate comfort is important but I think it's also necessary to reflect on how the choices you make now will impact your quality of life later. Personally I'd jump at the chance to "suffer" in College Station for another 4 years especially if it was worth six-figure savings to me.

4. This "bottom-tier - at least in Texas" question. Personally I dislike applying this term to medical schools in general, because what criteria do you use to evaluate this? Is it really meaningful? I don't think it's particularly relevant; certainly not more than financial or location considerations, especially when the other school you're considering isn't leaps and bounds higher up. Presumably you're referring to standing in the USNWR rankings, so that at least gives us a metric to work with. Let's see where Texas A&M stands "at least in Texas":

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/search.result/name texas/program top-medical-schools

This list doesn't include Foster, I guess because it's new, or Baylor, because I just searched "Texas". 3 schools shown on the list + Baylor are ranked above Texas A&M (#82 Research); 3 unranked schools + Foster which is unlisted are therefore below it. That puts Texas A&M right at the middle of the pack, higher than four, lower than four. This is your definition of "bottom tier"?


Anyway, the choice would be pretty clear for me, but I can see why this could be a tough decision for some. At the end of the day, that $160,000 price disparity would really decide it for me. I would recommend punching some numbers into a calculator and see how much that extra amount would actually end up costing you over the life of the loan. If you could try and figure out the difference in your monthly payments down the line too that would help. I obviously haven't run the numbers myself but I think there would be a huge difference. (I am kind of assuming you'll be financing this with loans, not your own or your family's money; if not that would obviously negate the issue of interest/monthly payments).
 
Last edited:
Unless you can't stand cold weather, you will likely be much happier at UVM. The city of Burlington is beautiful, and there is a lot to do in the area.
 
Doctors make a lot of money but $160k (closer to $200k after you get slammed with interest accrual throughout residency) is a massive amount of money, even to a doctor. You could buy a house or pay for your child's college education in cash.
 
Yes $160,000 is a big sum of money and yes you can use that to buy a (ridiculously nice) car, a downpayment for a house, or kids education but I would give the YOLO argument some thought. It's not like if you go to UVA you can't buy a car or house or save for kids education- you will just need to save up for a couple of more years/ be a little more frugal. After the initial expenses of a house, car, kids you will find that you will have more money than you know what to do with (unless you want to live the high life i suppose). you only live once OP and life is short, chose happiness because the money will come either way.
 
I know a few people who have gone to Lubbock from OOS and have said that they liked it there a lot more than they were expecting. One friend in particular was facing a very similar dilemma (choice between a more expensive school in what he saw as a better location and Texas Tech) and he voiced many of the same concerns you have. He was on the fence for a quite a while, but is ultimately very happy that he ended up in Lubbock.

He does have a wife and a couple of young kids, though, which I'm sure gives him a different set of priorities.
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone. Truth be told, I do consider myself pretty liberal, so we'll see... Hopefully this isn't the decision I'll have to make when the time comes.
 
Am I the only person here who thinks living in Burlington for under $14,000/year sounds pretty tough? There are definitely places in the US that someone could do that pretty easily (Lubbock may well be one of them), but the cost of living in Burlington is pretty high. Do you have a decent amount in savings or do most med school students make pretty good money during the summers?
 
rain4venus said:
Am I the only person here who thinks living in Burlington for under $14,000/year sounds pretty tough? There are definitely places in the US that someone could do that pretty easily (Lubbock may well be one of them), but the cost of living in Burlington is pretty high. Do you have a decent amount in savings or do most med school students make pretty good money during the summers?
Click to expand...
Most med students don't make any money in the summer.
 
Texa$ fo' $ho'.

Only reasons to not choose Texas for a more expensive school are:

1. You got into a Top 20 school, and the prestige ***** in you won't let it die.
2. You got into a UC (esp. UCSD, UCLA, UCSF)
3. You got into your state school.
 
There's no right or wrong answer to your question. Everyone has their own priorities for a med school and you have to figure yours out. Some value cost above all other factors; some people go to the most prestigious; others best "fit" or location, but most are some combination of all.

The only person who can tell you what you are looking for in a medical school is YOU. Hell, if what you are after is good cafeteria food and you've got choices between US MD schools then who am I to judge your criteria?
 
One of my main deterrents for UVM is that it is such a small city. The entire "Downtown" area is basically Church street and consists of a few restaurants and shops. Even though Fletcher-Allen Hospital is the only level 1 trauma facility in the region, they basically admitted during the tour that they rarely get anything more crazy than the occasional tractor accident. Curriculum, atmosphere, tech integration, and student support are all phenomenal though.
 
Mavs88 said:
They always say that you should go where you'd be happy, you'd pay off the debt no matter what if you become a doc.
Click to expand...
"They" only say that because "they" haven't yet been in the position of having to pay back med school loans while also trying to maintain an upper middle class lifestyle.

OP, the financial decisions you make now will affect how you live your life for the next decade or even the next few decades. Loans come due six months into your intern year. I can't emphasize enough how important minimizing your med school debt is, especially as physician reimbursement continues to decline in both relative and absolute terms. It's really easy when you're in your early to mid twenties as a college student or med student to say, oh, well, I will just keep living like a student a while longer and pay back all that extra money. But at some point, most people want to get married, have children, buy a house, take nice vacations, fund their retirement accounts, and otherwise live their version of the American dream. It's a lot harder to do all of that when you are also struggling with paying back six figure debt from med school.

My advice for you and anyone else who has this choice is to be completely practical when choosing a medical school. No med school in this country is worth paying $160,000+ more in tuition versus another US accredited school. Whether the school uses PBL or lectures in the preclinical curriculum, or whether the state is red or blue, is irrelevant compared to your total debt in the bigger picture. Nothing is perfect, and there will be good and bad things about all med schools and all cities. Don't be so taken in by the med school interview day koolaid that you forget about your own long-term interests.
 
armybound said:
Most med students don't make any money in the summer.
Click to expand...

I made $4000 through a research program at my school; a noncompetitive grant paid me. I'm not at a top 50 school, and I'm pretty sure this kind of experience is widely available.

However, that isn't a lot of money.
 
tantacles said:
I made $4000 through a research program at my school; a noncompetitive grant paid me. I'm not at a top 50 school, and I'm pretty sure this kind of experience is widely available.

However, that isn't a lot of money.
Click to expand...
I had plenty of friends who did a preceptorship that paid money, or did research. But that was maybe a couple dozen out of 240 students. I don't doubt that there's not an insignificant number of med students who do something that pays over the summer, but I'd still guess that most med students do nothing to make money.
 
QofQuimica said:
"They" only say that because "they" haven't yet been in the position of having to pay back med school loans while also trying to maintain an upper middle class lifestyle.

OP, the financial decisions you make now will affect how you live your life for the next decade or even the next few decades. Loans come due six months into your intern year. I can't emphasize enough how important minimizing your med school debt is, especially as physician reimbursement continues to decline in both relative and absolute terms. It's really easy when you're in your early to mid twenties as a college student or med student to say, oh, well, I will just keep living like a student a while longer and pay back all that extra money. But at some point, most people want to get married, have children, buy a house, take nice vacations, fund their retirement accounts, and otherwise live their version of the American dream. It's a lot harder to do all of that when you are also struggling with paying back six figure debt from med school.

My advice for you and anyone else who has this choice is to be completely practical when choosing a medical school. No med school in this country is worth paying $160,000+ more in tuition versus another US accredited school. Whether the school uses PBL or lectures in the preclinical curriculum, or whether the state is red or blue, is irrelevant compared to your total debt in the bigger picture. Nothing is perfect, and there will be good and bad things about all med schools and all cities. Don't be so taken in by the med school interview day koolaid that you forget about your own long-term interests.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I think I agree with the bolded - except for Loma Linda, which no one could even pay me to attend. As has been noted, however, the total cost difference in my scenario would actually be around $128k at most, as I could very well get need-based/merit scholarships. Anyway, I was just curious as to what your personal cutoff is for an acceptable cost difference between two schools.
 
Ja3ger said:
Thanks for the advice. I think I agree with the bolded - except for Loma Linda, which no one could even pay me to attend. As has been noted, however, the total cost difference in my scenario would actually be around $128k at most, as I could very well get need-based/merit scholarships. Anyway, I was just curious as to what your personal cutoff is for an acceptable cost difference between two schools.
Click to expand...
Won't you know about scholarships before making a decision, though? Also, remember that you don't have to borrow the maximum amount in living expenses. If you can live in Burlington on 14k, you can surely do the same in Lubbock or CS. That's another 32k of savings.
 
armybound said:
I had plenty of friends who did a preceptorship that paid money, or did research. But that was maybe a couple dozen out of 240 students. I don't doubt that there's not an insignificant number of med students who do something that pays over the summer, but I'd still guess that most med students do nothing to make money.
Click to expand...

anyone who did research in the summer in my class got an NIH funded $5500 stipend
 
Go where you feel like you can succeed and be happy. If that is UVM, go there. Nothing else matters. You are going to be in debt wherever you go. I'd prefer to be in debt to a school I loved, vs. one that I only liked. If you felt like UVM was your perfect fit, then a lot of the other students there will also probably be great new friends too. And that close by support system is a huge plus also. Sounds like a no brainer to me. 🙂
 
eizeral said:
Go where you feel like you can succeed and be happy. If that is UVM, go there. Nothing else matters. You are going to be in debt wherever you go. I'd prefer to be in debt to a school I loved, vs. one that I only liked. If you felt like UVM was your perfect fit, then a lot of the other students there will also probably be great new friends too. And that close by support system is a huge plus also. Sounds like a no brainer to me. 🙂
Click to expand...

You'd put a $160,000 price tag on that? That's a ridiculously expensive premium to pay for a "feeling". Saying "you'll be in debt either way" is technically true but obviously if you double the amount of debt you carry that's going to have a massive effect on your standard of living. You do see that right? In any event passing on a six-figure price differential is CERTAINLY not a "no-brainer". Financial considerations in my opinion deserve to be weighed with as much brainpower as possible.
 
BlueLabel said:
You'd put a $160,000 price tag on that? That's a ridiculously expensive premium to pay for a "feeling". Saying "you'll be in debt either way" is technically true but obviously if you double the amount of debt you carry that's going to have a massive effect on your standard of living. You do see that right? In any event passing on a six-figure price differential is CERTAINLY not a "no-brainer". Financial considerations in my opinion deserve to be weighed with as much brainpower as possible.
Click to expand...
I guess you and I just see things a little differently then. I understand where you're coming from. My medical education is going to leave me probably more in debt than UVM would leave the OP. Idk, it's not a huge huge deal to me. I'd still be able to live comfortably enough. It depends on the person though.
 
BlueLabel said:
You'd put a $160,000 price tag on that? That's a ridiculously expensive premium to pay for a "feeling". Saying "you'll be in debt either way" is technically true but obviously if you double the amount of debt you carry that's going to have a massive effect on your standard of living. You do see that right? In any event passing on a six-figure price differential is CERTAINLY not a "no-brainer". Financial considerations in my opinion deserve to be weighed with as much brainpower as possible.
Click to expand...

If you could know for a fact that you'd be really happy at one school and really unhappy at the other, then maybe the price tag difference makes sense. ($1,500/month loan payments for 10 years is a quality-of-life changer, even with a $200K+ income.)

But odds are, you'd actually be reasonably happy at either school. They're not the same certainly, but both good in their respective ways. You'd be learning the same material with a group of peers, some of whom will become your close friends. At either school, there would likely be other students you like a whole lot less. The surrounding city? I'd imagine the world you inhabit daily would be overwhelmingly the medical school and immediate environment in either case, so the rest of the city would be secondary.
 
Cost is a huge factor, but so is fit. One is easy to figure out, the other less so.

Although your "gut" is a valuable input, just realize your feelings can change. My feeling about my alma mater and a few jobs were totally different before and after. You could be happier in Texas than you think; likewise, you can be more miserable in Vermont than you think. It happens.

By all means, if a certain evironment would induce higher board scores and third year evals, it's something to factor in. The problem is that no one really knows. I'm relying objective curriculum factors that I know would enhance my learning and reduce my stress. I'm also relying on location; odds are high that I'll land a residency and job in the part of the country around the medical school.

Debt is a huge deal though. Paying off $100k is tougher than you can really imagine, and consider that student loan interest rates are at least 6.75%, which is practically financial rape in today's ultra-low interest rate environment. who knows what the future will be, but right now it's just absurd. Don't dismiss it due to happy feelings that could easily fade later. If you have solid reasons that justify UVM, also consider those.
 
I totally agree with what the last few people have said. You should keep in mind that you may end up enjoying UVM less than you expect, or Texas more than you expect. Like docelh said, it's easier to determine price than fit.

With that in mind, have you ever lived in either region before? There's obviously a huge distinction between TX and northern Vermont. I have a soft spot for northern New England, and Burlington is a beautiful and fun city, but also the days are less than 9 hours long in the winter.
Of course, the counter to that is that it will get much hotter in Texas in the summer than in Vermont. But it still gets hot in Vermont, and at least apartments in Texas will have AC.

I'm really not doing this to try to talk you out of UVM. But since you asked for help deciding, I just want to make sure that you're taking all things into consideration. You might realize that Texas is just as good a fit, and at a lower price.
 
Unless you are expecting to inherit a large sum of money in your 20s, please please please take the advice that says go to the cheapest school *factoring in tuition and COL*. I can tell you about dozens of friends whose start after their undergraduate educations were hindered by $300-500/mo school loan payments. Multiply the salary and monthly loan payments for an attending by 5. Go to Texas. Save a bundle. Become a doctor.
 
Last edited:
It sounds like Tech isn't palatable, and UVM is highway robbery compared to your other option. Absolutely go to A&M. There is no possible way that you will get $128,000 worth of enjoyment out of your time at UVM.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

APloy
Texas A&M Vs McGovern
Replies
2
Views
1K
waterglass
W
wysdoc
2025-2026 Texas A&M
2
Replies
88
Views
12K
ahnonemoose
A
D
Worth applying to Texas schools? 514
Replies
4
Views
3K
Adiemus
Adiemus
wysdoc
2025-2026 Texas Tech Lubbock
Replies
23
Views
4K
thestrugglingpremedd
T
wysdoc
2025-2026 Texas Tech El Paso
Replies
31
Views
4K
MaxDakota
MaxDakota
Top