UWash vs Duke vs UCLA

[Jince791]

Hey SDN! Please help me out!

I know I'm incredibly fortunate to have a choice between 3 amazing schools, but I'm still having a hard time committing to a decision. What are your candid opinions? I'd love to hear from people who have attended/have friends at these schools.

A little about me first: I'm a Washington resident who went to undergrad in Socal. I hope to do residency and live in Seattle in the future. I'm interested in doing a significant amount of bench research in medical school and will likely pursue a specialty as a result. I hope to work at UW someday as a researching and teaching physician.

I attended Second Look for all three of the schools below; please let me know if any of the pros and cons I've listed are inaccurate!

UW - The Comfortable Option

Pros:
- Close to family and friends
- Networks formed during medical school would help me during the match
- Clinical rotations in rural underserved areas (I'll get more involved clinical training; apparently it's not uncommon for it to be just you and a doctor treating patients without residents)
- Seahawks. Sounders. Nature. Killer whales.

Cons:
- I don't think I want to do primary care
- Would need to take a scholarly fifth year to do research (I really want to publish something, I see it as the next milestone in calling myself a "scientist" )
- Curriculum seems dated, revisions integrating material and shortening basic sciences are only affecting the class entering in 2015 and beyond
- No clinical electives before residency applications/having to choose a specialty
- Still haven't heard back whether I'm placed at the Spokane or Seattle campus for the first year, and they may not tell me until after May 15th (I would MUCH rather be in Seattle)

Duke - The "What's better for your career plans?" Option

Pros:
- Duke's research year.
- Clinical rotations before Step 1 (I hear this makes concepts stick better, which helps Duke students on Step 1 too)
- Impressive match list, lots of people go into specialties at (from what I can tell) very good residency programs
- Elective rotations in second year to help you choose a specialty
- Rdubs
- Duke basketball (I hear they've attracted the number 1 and 4 high school prospects in the nation)
- Small class size (~100), and thus a close-knit group
- Lower cost of living (ie nicer housing for less money)

Cons:
- Durham (I'm Asian, and have lived my whole life on the west coast; wondering if there will be culture shock)
- Tuition. However, I'd like to first make my comparisons without tuition as part of the equation.
- Humidity
- Students do less well on Step 2

UCLA - The Dark Horse
Pros:
- Close to currently established networks (went to undergrad in Socal)
- High reputation on the west coast; may have an easier time matching to UW than from Duke
- Everyone who goes here seems to love it; haven't heard anything negative
- Curriculum seems better organized than UW's.

Cons:
- I don't know if I want to live in LA anymore. Traffic man. Also very dry.

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[EMTwolv]

I was in a similar situation, choosing between a top 30 on the east coast and UW, though our situation is reversed. I'm established on the east coast, and will be moving to Seattle to attend UW. Though this decision should have been much easier than it was, I think UW did a terrible job of selling itself on interview day. I would say this likely has to do with the fact that they accept so few OOR, and in-region kids already know what UW is all about(this still doesn't excuse it). Ultimately, a nice financial aid package that brought the OOR 60-80k a year tuition down to less than 20k a year sealed the deal for me. Despite its failure to play up its strengths, UW is unique in that it is a research powerhouse as well as the most unique and varied clinical environment in the country. Between Seattle and the plethora of rural options, I think I will come away having the most well-rounded clinical experience possible. Check this book out, written by a UW student describing her clinical experiences: "What Patients Taught Me: A Medical Student's Journey" http://www.amazon.com/What-Patients-Taught-Me-Students/dp/1570615276/ref=pd_ybh_6

It is unfortunate that the new curriculum will not be in place for the incoming class. However, I think in the long run, you're in a good position regardless of what you choose. Duke would be my number one choice, especially if you're going the research route. But if you want to stay on the west coast for residency, I would probably choose between UCLA and UW(whichever will be cheaper).

To summarize, what sold UW for me was that it will provide the best of both worlds. I can be involved with some of the most cutting edge medical research in the world while also taking advantage of a one of a kind clinical experience. Additional pros are the fact that the medical center is on the beautiful UW main campus and that I know I will be in Seattle(this is something you should email them about finding out before May 15. I can't imagine they wouldn't be accommodating if you are considering going elsewhere). Having said all this, I think UW really needs to revamp its PR dept. I've heard so many people have doubts about UW post-interview and that's definitely their fault for the lackluster interview day.

 

[solitarius]

Duke for the career interests.

Not sure how someone can highly rate rural rotations while seeing primary care as a disadvantage. w/e.

 

[alt12345]

"I hope to work at UW someday as a researching and teaching physician."

This clinches it for me. You'd have a much, much easier time working at UW if you went to med school there. Don't underestimate that. I would call the admissions office and tell them you are deciding between other top schools but your Seattle/Spokane location is going to be a big factor because you want to be in Seattle (make sure to say this) - ask if you can somehow know before May 15.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Don't worry about the culture shock of Durham. Yes, this is the south and The Triangle is very Black & White, but the Triangle also has the largest concentration of PhDs on the planet and with this a lot of cultural diversity. There are a lot of Asian students at Duke and UNC and a larger community outside the schools than you might imagine thanks to Research Triangle Park. Yes, it isn't the west coast, but I think you'd be surprised how diverse the area is.

 

[pyrrion89]

Not much to add, other than that I am deciding between UCLA and Duke (I think we met at 2nd Look). Not going to lie---I lose some sleep still mulling over my decision. Anyway, I think you should also consider the opinions of people outside these forums. SDN tends to attract prestige- and career-oriented people, so their opinions will naturally favor Duke above all else.

That being said, I think you should attend the school at which you'll be happiest. For me, being close to family and friends is very attractive, and Duke seems to have a pretty intense culture due to the students it attracts and its hyper-condensed preclinical curriculum. UW may offer the same kind of pros for you as UCLA does for me.

If you're worried UW will mean you take a hit on prestige, UWash is a 4.3/5 on residency director surveys, and Duke is 4.5/5. To me that difference is about negligible. Don't fall prey to "undergrad prestige syndrome."

 

[Jince791]

@EMTwolv - Thank you for the book recommendation! I just ordered it; I'm interested to know how I would grow as a person through UW's WWAMI rotations that involve a lot of responsibility in the clinic.

@solitarius - I appreciate your opinion! However, the above touches on why the rural underserved clinics would be a Pro even if I don't want to do primary care.

@alt12345 - Thanks for your response. Do you think that I'd be that much better off going to UW? Is that simply because of networking? Because it would be easier to get into certain departments' clinical electives? I'm wondering if coming from a program like Duke's would make these things "a wash" if I'm interested in a specialty. Let's use UW's orthopaedics department as an example (simply for the sake of an example. Not sure what I want to do in medicine yet). Their residency class has 8 people. Typically they select 1 to 2 from UW every year, but they seem to like geographic diversity in their class as well. I imagine that this trend is similar across specialty departments.

@ChemEngMD - This is definitely the sense I got on interview day and at Second Look. I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not mistaken. Thanks for your input!

@pyrrion89 - Best of luck on your decision! I do remember meeting someone at Duke who was also considering UCLA, but sadly I am bad with names Feel free to PM me if you want to chat! I do get the sense that the culture would be more intense at Duke, but our fellow students at Second Look all seemed like great and friendly people. Duke's curriculum to me honestly seemed more efficient than UW's, even if it is condensed. You're right in that the decision should come down to where we'll be happiest; prestige really isn't a factor for me, other than whether the school will open the doors I want to walk through.

 

[alt12345]

@alt12345 - Thanks for your response. Do you think that I'd be that much better off going to UW? Is that simply because of networking? Because it would be easier to get into certain departments' clinical electives? I'm wondering if coming from a program like Duke's would make these things "a wash" if I'm interested in a specialty. Let's use UW's orthopaedics department as an example (simply for the sake of an example. Not sure what I want to do in medicine yet). Their residency class has 8 people. Typically they select 1 to 2 from UW every year, but they seem to like geographic diversity in their class as well. I imagine that this trend is similar across specialty departments.

Given your ability to get into such great schools, I doubt you'll have much trouble becoming a UW faculty no matter which school you go to. That being said, I do think it would be a lot easier to attend the school you want to end up at permanently.

If you're the residency director/person that chooses staff at UW, are you going to trust a UW doctor that you know personally, or a doctor who has Duke/UCLA under their name? More than that, you could actually interact yourself with the people who make these decisions as a med student at UW. If I were you, I would try to speak to a couple faculty at UW who have the type of jobs that you want and ask to see what they think. Unless they have some anti-Seattle or anti-UW bias, I'd be surprised if they said anything other than UW.

Duke and UCLA are great schools. But UW isn't too shabby either. If UW was an unranked school with minimal research and connections, I would be more hesitant to choose it; but the fact that there is a strong argument to be made that UW is a better/more prestigious school than the other two (especially in Seattle) makes this choice easy for me.

 

[forealmannn]

I'd say UW. Then again I am waitlisted at Duke but in all seriousness... all of the schools you listed will offer fantastic training and research opportunities. It sounds like you would be happiest at UW and with the cheapest tuition on top of that, UW seems like the best choice.

 

[CrunchyTeddy]

Sounds like you like UW best. I don't think that UW is a step down from Duke in terms of reputation/prestige/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. And if your ultimate goal is to match back to UW, then UW will probably give you the best odds of doing so.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

UW

Pros:
- Close to family and friends
- Networks formed during medical school would help me during the match

Cons:
- I don't think I want to do primary care
- Would need to take a scholarly fifth year to do research (I really want to publish something, I see it as the next milestone in calling myself a "scientist" )
- Curriculum seems dated, revisions integrating material and shortening basic sciences are only affecting the class entering in 2015 and beyond
- No clinical electives before residency applications/having to choose a specialty
- Still haven't heard back whether I'm placed at the Spokane or Seattle campus for the first year, and they may not tell me until after May 15th (I would MUCH rather be in Seattle)

Duke - The "What's better for your career plans?" Option

Pros:
- Duke's research year.
- Clinical rotations before Step 1 (I hear this makes concepts stick better, which helps Duke students on Step 1 too)
- Elective rotations in second year to help you choose a specialty

Cons:
- Durham
- Tuition. However, I'd like to first make my comparisons without tuition as part of the equation.

UCLA - The Dark Horse
Pros:
- Close to currently established networks (went to undergrad in Socal)
- Everyone who goes here seems to love it; haven't heard anything negative
- Curriculum seems better organized than UW's.

Cons:
- I don't know if I want to live in LA anymore. Traffic man. Also very dry.

This sounds like a tough decision for you. I've eliminated any factors in your pro/cons lists that I didn't think should be ranked highly. All of these schools have great match lists which will mostly be determined by where the 4th years want to do their residency, and what they want to specialize in. I wouldn't even try to compare these since Duke will probably have a strong East Coast bias, UCLA will have a strong LA bias, and UW will have a strong primary care bias just because of the student populations at each school. So I'd eliminate that factor.

You should make this decision based on 1) where you ultimately want to practice (sounds like UW wins here), 2) the location where you'd be living (sounds like UW wins here if you can be in Seattle, followed by Duke, followed by LA), and 3) price tag. You made it sound like Duke is more expensive, so to me it sounds like your decision comes down to UW vs UCLA. Based on your situation and wanting to ultimate teach/practice at UW, I'd recommend UW. This is coming from a very biased UCLA student, and while I obviously I think you'd have a blast here in Westwood, I think its undeniable that institutions tend to favor their own. If you are that serious about wanting to work at UW in the future, you'd be doing yourself a disservice by turning them down for med school.

Good luck! I'm happy to answer any other questions you have about UCLA.

 

[DermViser]

Hey SDN! Please help me out!

I know I'm incredibly fortunate to have a choice between 3 amazing schools, but I'm still having a hard time committing to a decision. What are your candid opinions? I'd love to hear from people who have attended/have friends at these schools.

A little about me first: I'm a Washington resident who went to undergrad in Socal. I hope to do residency and live in Seattle in the future. I'm interested in doing a significant amount of bench research in medical school and will likely pursue a specialty as a result. I hope to work at UW someday as a researching and teaching physician.

I attended Second Look for all three of the schools below; please let me know if any of the pros and cons I've listed are inaccurate!

UW - The Comfortable Option

Pros:
- Close to family and friends
- Networks formed during medical school would help me during the match
- Clinical rotations in rural underserved areas (I'll get more involved clinical training; apparently it's not uncommon for it to be just you and a doctor treating patients without residents)
- Seahawks. Sounders. Nature. Killer whales.

Cons:
- I don't think I want to do primary care
- Would need to take a scholarly fifth year to do research (I really want to publish something, I see it as the next milestone in calling myself a "scientist" )
- Curriculum seems dated, revisions integrating material and shortening basic sciences are only affecting the class entering in 2015 and beyond
- No clinical electives before residency applications/having to choose a specialty
- Still haven't heard back whether I'm placed at the Spokane or Seattle campus for the first year, and they may not tell me until after May 15th (I would MUCH rather be in Seattle)

Duke - The "What's better for your career plans?" Option

Pros:
- Duke's research year.
- Clinical rotations before Step 1 (I hear this makes concepts stick better, which helps Duke students on Step 1 too)
- Impressive match list, lots of people go into specialties at (from what I can tell) very good residency programs
- Elective rotations in second year to help you choose a specialty
- Rdubs
- Duke basketball (I hear they've attracted the number 1 and 4 high school prospects in the nation)
- Small class size (~100), and thus a close-knit group
- Lower cost of living (ie nicer housing for less money)

Cons:
- Durham (I'm Asian, and have lived my whole life on the west coast; wondering if there will be culture shock)
- Tuition. However, I'd like to first make my comparisons without tuition as part of the equation.
- Humidity
- Students do less well on Step 2

UCLA - The Dark Horse
Pros:
- Close to currently established networks (went to undergrad in Socal)
- High reputation on the west coast; may have an easier time matching to UW than from Duke
- Everyone who goes here seems to love it; haven't heard anything negative
- Curriculum seems better organized than UW's.

Cons:
- I don't know if I want to live in LA anymore. Traffic man. Also very dry.

UCLA. Concerned about traffic? Live close to campus.

 

[JJMrK]

If you want to train and practice in Seattle, go to UW. For the majority of specialties, staying at your home institution is a much, much easier thing to do than to successfully target and match at 1 particular program (regardless of ties).

Networks formed during medical school would help me during the match

This is probably the most important point in your list, based on your goals.

Would need to take a scholarly fifth year to do research (I really want to publish something, I see it as the next milestone in calling myself a "scientist" )

You don't need to take a year off to publish a/multiple manuscript(s).

 

[BABSstudent]

Hey SDN! Please help me out!

I know I'm incredibly fortunate to have a choice between 3 amazing schools, but I'm still having a hard time committing to a decision. What are your candid opinions? I'd love to hear from people who have attended/have friends at these schools.

A little about me first: I'm a Washington resident who went to undergrad in Socal. I hope to do residency and live in Seattle in the future. I'm interested in doing a significant amount of bench research in medical school and will likely pursue a specialty as a result. I hope to work at UW someday as a researching and teaching physician.

I attended Second Look for all three of the schools below; please let me know if any of the pros and cons I've listed are inaccurate!

UW - The Comfortable Option

Pros:
- Close to family and friends
- Networks formed during medical school would help me during the match
- Clinical rotations in rural underserved areas (I'll get more involved clinical training; apparently it's not uncommon for it to be just you and a doctor treating patients without residents)
- Seahawks. Sounders. Nature. Killer whales.

Cons:
- I don't think I want to do primary care
- Would need to take a scholarly fifth year to do research (I really want to publish something, I see it as the next milestone in calling myself a "scientist" )
- Curriculum seems dated, revisions integrating material and shortening basic sciences are only affecting the class entering in 2015 and beyond
- No clinical electives before residency applications/having to choose a specialty
- Still haven't heard back whether I'm placed at the Spokane or Seattle campus for the first year, and they may not tell me until after May 15th (I would MUCH rather be in Seattle)

Duke - The "What's better for your career plans?" Option

Pros:
- Duke's research year.
- Clinical rotations before Step 1 (I hear this makes concepts stick better, which helps Duke students on Step 1 too)
- Impressive match list, lots of people go into specialties at (from what I can tell) very good residency programs
- Elective rotations in second year to help you choose a specialty
- Rdubs
- Duke basketball (I hear they've attracted the number 1 and 4 high school prospects in the nation)
- Small class size (~100), and thus a close-knit group
- Lower cost of living (ie nicer housing for less money)

Cons:
- Durham (I'm Asian, and have lived my whole life on the west coast; wondering if there will be culture shock)
- Tuition. However, I'd like to first make my comparisons without tuition as part of the equation.
- Humidity
- Students do less well on Step 2

UCLA - The Dark Horse
Pros:
- Close to currently established networks (went to undergrad in Socal)
- High reputation on the west coast; may have an easier time matching to UW than from Duke
- Everyone who goes here seems to love it; haven't heard anything negative
- Curriculum seems better organized than UW's.

Cons:
- I don't know if I want to live in LA anymore. Traffic man. Also very dry.

I don't see how you not wanting to do primary care is a con for UW. It's not like you attend UW and suddenly you have to do primary care. You can do whatever you want! Only one part of their mission statement is to create PCPs, but their mission statement includes lot of other things. While we do have a lot of people go into primary care, it's probably because they initially selected students that wanted to go into it.

And you also incorrectly state that you do not get to do an elective rotation before 4th year. That's false. You get one elective rotation during 3rd year in addition to the ones in 4th year. There is also the precepting you do during 1st year and 2nd year that add to experiencing other specialties.

As for research, you could do a III project in research and accomplish your goal during the summer between 1st and 2nd year, or pick up a project in 2nd year, or spend your 3rd year elective rotation in a lab, or your 4th year rotation. I guess you could also do a 5th year lab job, but you could also accomplish this as a resident. It's up to you though.

 

[RikaN]

I was in a similar position and just withdrew my acceptance at UW for another school.

Congrats on all your options @Jince791, but if I were you, I would hands-down go to Duke!

 

[Jince791]

Thank you so much to everyone who contributed to this post. You all raised very valid points, and I appreciate your time.

It was the toughest decision I've made, but in the end I chose Duke. I was placed at the Spokane campus for UW, and since research is a large part of my career goals and a site reassignment doesn't look likely, I believe I'll have a better overall experience with 3 years at Duke and a research year in Seattle. Also, while talking with friends, I realized that I'm unnecessarily wary of letting life take me places other than where my carefully laid plans point (Seattle). Perhaps it's time for me to embrace a new adventure, and be willing to let my life be a bit outside of my control