Vaccines 100% cause autism, right?

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SHOW YOU WHAT DATA DUDE! LIKE SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE HERE AND I AM TELLING YOU, YOU HAVE THE WRONG EFFING ONE! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GOOGLE THE **** AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT EEEEEEVERYONE ELSE CAN. CAN YOU READ. READ WTH I SAID. NOT A PROFESSIONAL, NOT CLAIMING FACTS, JUST GIVING PERSPECTIVE ON WHY PEOPLE START TO QUESTION THE VACCINES. I DONT HAVE ANY DATA AND NEVER CLAIMED TO. HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN YOU BE. THIS FORUM IS FOR CRAP, ANYTIME SOMEONE SAYS ANYTHING THAT ISNT TO THE LIKES OF A SCIENCE DRONE ITS ATTACKED. I WAS ASKING FOR YOUR INPUT SO WHAT EXACTLY IS IT THAT YOU WANT FROM ME. I AM GIVING YOU THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE AVERAGE PATIENT THAT MIGHT GO INTO A PEDS OFFICE AND DECLINE A VACCINATION. .....THATS IT! GOT IT! YOURE A FRIGGIN MEDICINE RESIDENT BUT YOU CANT READ? NOT TO MENTION THERE ARE LIKE 5 OTHER THREADS UNDER THIS ONE ON THE SAME TOPIC SO WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE PULLING IT FROM. THEIR ASS? ITS OUT THERE. I NEVER SAID IT WAS FACT, BUT ALL IT TAKES IS A SEED OF DOUBT WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLES KIDS. SAVE YOUR SMART ASS SARCASM. IT IS WASTED HERE.

youre a f*** MD and incapable of responding to something with little more diplomacy than a 10 year old.
There's a button called "caps lock" on the left of most keyboards, you can use it to stop all of your letters from being capitalized

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Thanks
Well again PSAI was the one that created a situation where I was trusting pseudointellectuals so forgive me but that is not how I stumbled upon the information. I just happen to be an A type personality and while pregnant googled and researched everything under the sun. So that is how I came to find soooo many links talking about the "dangers" on vaccines. And also I will again say I was giving a different perspective on why people might feel the way they do but I never said I didnt vaccinate although I was very skeptical and didnt vaccinate right away for the reasons I brought up. I will agree science is a GREAT tool but I think one of the things I learned about in a basic biology class is that most of science is not fact and it is ever changing. we have theories from decades ago that have evolved and changed so it is a great tool but it is not always 100% guaranteed but I wont be so foolish as to say that the science today isnt waaaaay better than it used to be. And I love science. And again I am not looking to engage in debate just giving my reasons for why doubt can be created even in the face of professionals saying otherwise. Professionals are just that, not god. If I save money for retirement I will let a finance professional manage and invest my money but it doesnt mean there isnt a possiblility that he could end up losing my money even under the best of informed investment decisions. And if word got out that something like that happened (bad investments) it would be I feel negligent of people to not question it or maybe even start pulling their money and selling their stocks.
In my honest opinion, Internet searching, especially for medical related advice/speculation, does more harm than good. That's why I always advise against people searching their symptoms on a website like WebMD. You have an enlarged lymph node on you for whatever reason, but after searching on the internet, you worry you have Hodgkin Lymphoma or something. The same concept applies for vaccination concern and speculation. There isn't a proven correlation between vaccinations and autism. However, there are always people who are scared that, even though it's not proven, there is a correlation. The ones who talk about risks and disadvantages are always the ones who speak louder. No one wants to listen to the people who err on the side of facts.

Vaccines are not proven to have any correlation with autism, however they are proven to prevent many fatal and debilitating diseases. Your prudence and concern for your child's safety is admirable, and I dont blame you at all for your inhibitions. However for now, all you can do is look at the facts and weigh the risks and benefits (the proven ones) and make a decision, one which should be quite apparent.
 
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Oh man the anti-Vaxers vs peds is kid stuff. (I killed me with that pun). Compared to psych vs the world 1. Because Chemtrails are real in psych. 2. The stigma of weirdness from everybody. 3. You don't have to lock the unvaccinater up yet with a court order for vaccinations.

Let me know when you guys go to court with it and then I'll start paying attention. Not that I won't be rooting for you. Seeing a hippy family from Oregon treating the enforced Vaccination of their kids like an international human rights crisis will be awesome to watch.
 
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SHOW YOU WHAT DATA DUDE! LIKE SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE HERE AND I AM TELLING YOU, YOU HAVE THE WRONG EFFING ONE! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GOOGLE THE **** AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT EEEEEEVERYONE ELSE CAN. CAN YOU READ. READ WTH I SAID. NOT A PROFESSIONAL, NOT CLAIMING FACTS, JUST GIVING PERSPECTIVE ON WHY PEOPLE START TO QUESTION THE VACCINES. I DONT HAVE ANY DATA AND NEVER CLAIMED TO. HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN YOU BE. THIS FORUM IS FOR CRAP, ANYTIME SOMEONE SAYS ANYTHING THAT ISNT TO THE LIKES OF A SCIENCE DRONE ITS ATTACKED. I WAS ASKING FOR YOUR INPUT SO WHAT EXACTLY IS IT THAT YOU WANT FROM ME. I AM GIVING YOU THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE AVERAGE PATIENT THAT MIGHT GO INTO A PEDS OFFICE AND DECLINE A VACCINATION. .....THATS IT! GOT IT! YOURE A FRIGGIN MEDICINE RESIDENT BUT YOU CANT READ? NOT TO MENTION THERE ARE LIKE 5 OTHER THREADS UNDER THIS ONE ON THE SAME TOPIC SO WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE PULLING IT FROM. THEIR ASS? ITS OUT THERE. I NEVER SAID IT WAS FACT, BUT ALL IT TAKES IS A SEED OF DOUBT WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLES KIDS. SAVE YOUR SMART ASS SARCASM. IT IS WASTED HERE.

youre a f*** MD and incapable of responding to something with little more diplomacy than a 10 year old.


One of the nice things about anonymous internet forums like this one is that it relieves physicians from the tedium exercising the diplomacy and decorum that most of us usually employ with patients who present this kind of argument. If people are snappish here, understand that it is because it is wearisome to debate this endlessly and be tolerant of the drivel that composes the vast majority of ant-vaccine talking points. Please do not take it personally, but reading a statement such as "all you have to do is Google the issue, and you will see what everyone else can" makes me groan.

A Google search will turn up many forums, discussions, and web sites, since it is a contentious issue. Many of them will provide lengthy opinions about the dangers of vaccines, or their ineffectiveness. Most of these are written by people who have little practical or theoretical understanding of the subject matter. They may be articulate or intelligent in their own right, but when you dig deeper in conversation with them, they usually reveal great confusion about infectious disease, the immune system, or an understanding of statistics.

The vast majority of people who actually work treating and preventing disease do not share this opinion, as it runs contrary to the very significant body of knowledge that they have accumulated through their education, and what is reinforced for them through their everyday experience.

There is a very small but highly vocal component of the medical/scientific community that promote the anti-vaccine cause. Frequently, it is because they can profit from supplying a niche market with some particular product, usually supplements, or books. Good examples of this are Dr. Joseph Mercola, and Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, who spread fear and propaganda along with their own proprietary products. Dr. Bob Sears has done well selling books to frightened parents. There are others, like Dr. Russell Blaylock, or Andrew Wakefield, who just seem to enjoy the notoriety.

So, a few hours of googling will lead you into this kind of marketing machine, along with interesting but sad forays through realms of conspiracy theorists and people who claim to be able to cure AIDS with fruit juice, deny the existence of infectious disease, or blame it on chemtrails.

This seems superficially interesting, but ultimately empty and dispiriting, and also quite boring. In a similar fashion, it just ends up being a lot more interesting to learn about and discuss the physics of spaceflight than endlessly debate the fine points of how the moon landing could have been a hoax.

Shalom.
 
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This doesn't look like a randomized trial to me. How can you really know if you don't expose people to HepB directly? I see no direct evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines.

An excellent question. You can always count on the British Medical Journal to address such things: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14684649

It's an oldie, but it always makes me chuckle.
 
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An excellent question. You can always count on the British Medical Journal to address such things: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14684649

It's an oldie, but it always makes me chuckle.

That is fantastic!

Quoting previously referenced article:

Results A greater than 92% decline in cases and a 99% or greater decline in deaths due to diseases prevented by vaccines recommended before 1980 were shown for diphtheria, mumps, pertussis, and tetanus. Endemic transmission of poliovirus and measles and rubella viruses has been eliminated in the United States; smallpox has been eradicated worldwide. Declines were 80% or greater for cases and deaths of most vaccine-preventable diseases targeted since 1980 including hepatitis A, acute hepatitis B, Hib, and varicella. Declines in cases and deaths of invasive S pneumoniae were 34% and 25%, respectively.

So you think this happened by chance? I'm trying to understand your reasoning.
 
^ Sorry, it was a joke. There is kind of a tired old logical fallacy floating around in anti-vaccine circles that vaccination hasn't been subjected to RCTs, or other EBM metrics, and therefore the efficacy has not been established. Using placebo vaccines, or purposefully infecting people to test vaccination is neither ethical nor practical, but critics often resort to such arguments when presented with data similar to what you posted. After a while it becomes a theater of the absurd.

If you spend (waste) any time reading anti-vaccination web sites, it will inevitably come up. I guess it is easy enough to get caught up in the minutiae, and miss the big picture during these heated debates, but yes, people really assert this.
 
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I know of no information that shows a direct link between autism and vaccination, but I do see that there is virtually no evidence clinically that vaccines prevent disease. What I mean by that specifically is that is it ASSUMED that someone is immune because they have produced antibodies. I personally called the CDC because I was having a hard time believing what a lot of people were saying, which is that the actual clinical efficacy of vaccination is almost never tested. To explain further, lets say we take 100 young adults aged 25-30 yrs, and they recieved the Hepatitis B vaccine, and sure enough produce antibodies, and therefore are assumed to be immune. My question is, are there any studies that take individuals who have antibodies again hepatitis B and are exposed to the virus and shown clinically to be immune to the virus? No, not a single one according to the CDC representative I spoke with. The assumption that because someone has produced antibodies against a certain virus means that individual cannot be infected, is not rooted in clinical studies, but is merely assumption. Maybe the vaccines really do work in this way, but unfortunately there is no clinical evidence showing this. The CDC representative told me the reason there are no studies showing this is due to it being inhumane to expose people to viruses intentinionally............ which I find interesting because if the vaccines truly work as advertised, what do they have to fear? According to them, you can't be infected as long as you produce antibodies. The one study I'm aware of regarding the seasonal flu was done in this way, and it was really an eye opener. The clinical effectiveness was 47% in middle aged adults, and only 9% in the elderly. Obviously just because someone has produced antibodies is not same magical defense against a virus. It would be nice if health were that easy, but we have to focus on living healthful lives and not just a magic shot to solve all our problems. I hope there is some way in the future that these vaccines are actually proven to be effective, and not just assumed to be. It is science based medicine, right?

As far as autsim, the anti vaccine proponents claim that the adjavents in the vaccines such as aluminum cause inflammation of the brain, and thus autism. Is this true? I have no idea, and truthfully there is a lot more aluminum in things people eat and put on their skin than in any vaccine I know of.


Stfu.
 
One of the nice things about anonymous internet forums like this one is that it relieves physicians from the tedium exercising the diplomacy and decorum that most of us usually employ with patients who present this kind of argument. If people are snappish here, understand that it is because it is wearisome to debate this endlessly and be tolerant of the drivel that composes the vast majority of ant-vaccine talking points. Please do not take it personally, but reading a statement such as "all you have to do is Google the issue, and you will see what everyone else can" makes me groan.

A Google search will turn up many forums, discussions, and web sites, since it is a contentious issue. Many of them will provide lengthy opinions about the dangers of vaccines, or their ineffectiveness. Most of these are written by people who have little practical or theoretical understanding of the subject matter. They may be articulate or intelligent in their own right, but when you dig deeper in conversation with them, they usually reveal great confusion about infectious disease, the immune system, or an understanding of statistics.

The vast majority of people who actually work treating and preventing disease do not share this opinion, as it runs contrary to the very significant body of knowledge that they have accumulated through their education, and what is reinforced for them through their everyday experience.

There is a very small but highly vocal component of the medical/scientific community that promote the anti-vaccine cause. Frequently, it is because they can profit from supplying a niche market with some particular product, usually supplements, or books. Good examples of this are Dr. Joseph Mercola, and Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, who spread fear and propaganda along with their own proprietary products. Dr. Bob Sears has done well selling books to frightened parents. There are others, like Dr. Russell Blaylock, or Andrew Wakefield, who just seem to enjoy the notoriety.

So, a few hours of googling will lead you into this kind of marketing machine, along with interesting but sad forays through realms of conspiracy theorists and people who claim to be able to cure AIDS with fruit juice, deny the existence of infectious disease, or blame it on chemtrails.

This seems superficially interesting, but ultimately empty and dispiriting, and also quite boring. In a similar fashion, it just ends up being a lot more interesting to learn about and discuss the physics of spaceflight than endlessly debate the fine points of how the moon landing could have been a hoax.

Shalom.
Very well said. It is so hard to remain articulate when confronted with arguments that are irrational to you (which many of the arguments against vaccination in general rather than just regarding specific vaccines tend to be). However, facing irrationality with irrationality helps no one, while a post like yours might help someone who is willing to hear it.
 
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SHOW YOU WHAT DATA DUDE! LIKE SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE HERE AND I AM TELLING YOU, YOU HAVE THE WRONG EFFING ONE! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GOOGLE THE **** AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT EEEEEEVERYONE ELSE CAN. CAN YOU READ. READ WTH I SAID. NOT A PROFESSIONAL, NOT CLAIMING FACTS, JUST GIVING PERSPECTIVE ON WHY PEOPLE START TO QUESTION THE VACCINES. I DONT HAVE ANY DATA AND NEVER CLAIMED TO. HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN YOU BE. THIS FORUM IS FOR CRAP, ANYTIME SOMEONE SAYS ANYTHING THAT ISNT TO THE LIKES OF A SCIENCE DRONE ITS ATTACKED. I WAS ASKING FOR YOUR INPUT SO WHAT EXACTLY IS IT THAT YOU WANT FROM ME. I AM GIVING YOU THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE AVERAGE PATIENT THAT MIGHT GO INTO A PEDS OFFICE AND DECLINE A VACCINATION. .....THATS IT! GOT IT! YOURE A FRIGGIN MEDICINE RESIDENT BUT YOU CANT READ? NOT TO MENTION THERE ARE LIKE 5 OTHER THREADS UNDER THIS ONE ON THE SAME TOPIC SO WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE PULLING IT FROM. THEIR ASS? ITS OUT THERE. I NEVER SAID IT WAS FACT, BUT ALL IT TAKES IS A SEED OF DOUBT WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLES KIDS. SAVE YOUR SMART ASS SARCASM. IT IS WASTED HERE.

youre a f*** MD and incapable of responding to something with little more diplomacy than a 10 year old.

I approve of this post. I haven't read it (and won't), but I approve of it.
 
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I have a friend of a friend who refuses to hang out with anyone who isn't up to date on their vaccines because she's like a week away from having her baby.

She works HR in a hospital.

Not sure where the common sense is, in this situation...so I'm just avoiding them all.
 
I have a friend of a friend who refuses to hang out with anyone who isn't up to date on their vaccines because she's like a week away from having her baby.

She works HR in a hospital.

Not sure where the common sense is, in this situation...so I'm just avoiding them all.
Considering the fetus can be severely damaged if the mother contracts certain illnesses, and she may not know her titer status (which would tell her if her own vaccines resulted in antibodies being formed), it would be reasonable to stay away from anyone who might expose her to those illnesses.
 
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I have a friend of a friend who refuses to hang out with anyone who isn't up to date on their vaccines because she's like a week away from having her baby.

She works HR in a hospital.

Not sure where the common sense is, in this situation...so I'm just avoiding them all.
I don't understand that either. Especially since vaccines give you autism...
 
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Considering the fetus can be severely damaged if the mother contracts certain illnesses, and she may not know her titer status (which would tell her if her own vaccines resulted in antibodies being formed), it would be reasonable to stay away from anyone who might expose her to those illnesses.

She works in a hospital, I think she has more problems there than her friend hanging out with people who may not have all their vaccines. As in, she's concerned about me, and I don't even hang out with her
 
She works in a hospital, I think she has more problems there than her friend hanging out with people who may not have all their vaccines. As in, she's concerned about me, and I don't even hang out with her
Hr usually doesn't come into contact with patients and there isn't a ton of personal contact with that kind of job (but what contact there is would probably be with vaccinated people since every hospital i have ever worked at wanted to make sure i had my vaccines so i figure it is a fairly standard policy). I don't think it is irrational at all to be worried about who your friends have been in contact with (especially the friends you spend a lot of time with and maybe share food and other stuff with) considering some communicable diseases have fairly long periods of time where they are contagious despite the person not having symptoms. Not saying it is irresponsible not to do that though. It just has to do with the person's tolerance of risk.
 
Hr usually doesn't come into contact with patients and there isn't a ton of personal contact with that kind of job (but what contact there is would probably be with vaccinated people since every hospital i have ever worked at wanted to make sure i had my vaccines so i figure it is a fairly standard policy). I don't think it is irrational at all to be worried about who your friends have been in contact with (especially the friends you spend a lot of time with and maybe share food and other stuff with) considering some communicable diseases have fairly long periods of time where they are contagious despite the person not having symptoms. Not saying it is irresponsible not to do that though. It just has to do with the person's tolerance of risk.

She sent an email out asking friends of friends to give her proof of vaccination. I forgot to put this part in my first post. I'm no anti-vaxxer, but I think that's a little excessive/invasive.
 
She sent an email out asking friends of friends to give her proof of vaccination. I forgot to put this part in my first post. I'm no anti-vaxxer, but I think that's a little excessive/invasive.
Oh, i see. I thought she was just going based on info she already has. Asking for proof is a little much. If she just asked her friends to let her know if they were around unvaccinated folks so she could steer clear that is different.
 
I can't guys.
 
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I knew a med student who was against vaccines :/
 
SHOW YOU WHAT DATA DUDE! LIKE SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE HERE AND I AM TELLING YOU, YOU HAVE THE WRONG EFFING ONE! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GOOGLE THE **** AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT EEEEEEVERYONE ELSE CAN. CAN YOU READ. READ WTH I SAID. NOT A PROFESSIONAL, NOT CLAIMING FACTS, JUST GIVING PERSPECTIVE ON WHY PEOPLE START TO QUESTION THE VACCINES. I DONT HAVE ANY DATA AND NEVER CLAIMED TO. HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN YOU BE. THIS FORUM IS FOR CRAP, ANYTIME SOMEONE SAYS ANYTHING THAT ISNT TO THE LIKES OF A SCIENCE DRONE ITS ATTACKED. I WAS ASKING FOR YOUR INPUT SO WHAT EXACTLY IS IT THAT YOU WANT FROM ME. I AM GIVING YOU THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE AVERAGE PATIENT THAT MIGHT GO INTO A PEDS OFFICE AND DECLINE A VACCINATION. .....THATS IT! GOT IT! YOURE A FRIGGIN MEDICINE RESIDENT BUT YOU CANT READ? NOT TO MENTION THERE ARE LIKE 5 OTHER THREADS UNDER THIS ONE ON THE SAME TOPIC SO WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE PULLING IT FROM. THEIR ASS? ITS OUT THERE. I NEVER SAID IT WAS FACT, BUT ALL IT TAKES IS A SEED OF DOUBT WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLES KIDS. SAVE YOUR SMART ASS SARCASM. IT IS WASTED HERE.

youre a f*** MD and incapable of responding to something with little more diplomacy than a 10 year old.

I haven't posted here in months but your post inspired me. For the love of God (if that's your thing) press your caps lock button. All it takes is one little push. The cool thing is, once you press it, your posts will immediately become more readable, intelligible (maybe) and much less like a crazy 10 year old who just got crushed playing Call of Duty.

You know you wanna push it. Go on now....do it.....if not for me, then for yourself.
 
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I know of no information that shows a direct link between autism and vaccination, but I do see that there is virtually no evidence clinically that vaccines prevent disease. What I mean by that specifically is that is it ASSUMED that someone is immune because they have produced antibodies. I personally called the CDC because I was having a hard time believing what a lot of people were saying, which is that the actual clinical efficacy of vaccination is almost never tested. To explain further, lets say we take 100 young adults aged 25-30 yrs, and they recieved the Hepatitis B vaccine, and sure enough produce antibodies, and therefore are assumed to be immune. My question is, are there any studies that take individuals who have antibodies again hepatitis B and are exposed to the virus and shown clinically to be immune to the virus? No, not a single one according to the CDC representative I spoke with. The assumption that because someone has produced antibodies against a certain virus means that individual cannot be infected, is not rooted in clinical studies, but is merely assumption. Maybe the vaccines really do work in this way, but unfortunately there is no clinical evidence showing this. The CDC representative told me the reason there are no studies showing this is due to it being inhumane to expose people to viruses intentinionally............ which I find interesting because if the vaccines truly work as advertised, what do they have to fear? According to them, you can't be infected as long as you produce antibodies. The one study I'm aware of regarding the seasonal flu was done in this way, and it was really an eye opener. The clinical effectiveness was 47% in middle aged adults, and only 9% in the elderly. Obviously just because someone has produced antibodies is not same magical defense against a virus. It would be nice if health were that easy, but we have to focus on living healthful lives and not just a magic shot to solve all our problems. I hope there is some way in the future that these vaccines are actually proven to be effective, and not just assumed to be. It is science based medicine, right?

As far as autsim, the anti vaccine proponents claim that the adjavents in the vaccines such as aluminum cause inflammation of the brain, and thus autism. Is this true? I have no idea, and truthfully there is a lot more aluminum in things people eat and put on their skin than in any vaccine I know of.

This is just ridiculous. Look at the incidence rates of most of the illnesses we routinely vaccinate against and you'll see that it dramatically dropped off after the introduction of those vaccines. For a very recent example, the incidence of HiB dropped like a stone after widespread vaccination was started in the 90s. http://www.cdc.gov/hi-disease/clinicians.html

Yes smart guy, we don't do human exposure trials on vaccines because it would in fact be completely unethical to do such a thing after determining the vaccine itself is safe. Rightly so, no IRB would ever allow a trial purposefully attempting to infect a group of people who had never been immunized against a disease with the disease itself (which is what you would have to do for the control group). Plus, who the hell are you going to get to sign up for that trial? "Hey bud, I'll pay you a thousand bucks to try to give you HiB meningitis. It's a swell deal! No? Well how about Hepatitis B instead, it's not that bad I promise." Derp.

And no, don't start with the correlation doesn't equal causation crap. This is one of those "parachute trial" situations (in short, we don't do RCT to test if parachutes work but we have some pretty good historical data on what happens to people who jump out of an airplane with vs without a parachute). Sometimes, correlation data strongly implying causation is the best you're gonna get (unless you're ready to start doing some real evil scientist type trials on people).
 
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I never said the vaccines didn't work, I simply stated the fact, which is that they are assumed to be effective, and not shown to be in clinical studies. They very well may be effective, but since we're supposed to be practicing evidence based medicine, I don't think it's responsible medicine to force vaccines on people we can't even prove are effective, that's all I'm saying. I personally have no been immunized for influenza in many years, and I have not been infected a single time, while people whom I personally know who get vaccinated religiously very often do get the flu. This may be due to the fact that the strains in the vaccine are guess work at best, and are often not the same viruses ciruculating, but thats really my point, its not a magic shot like many like to believe, its not nearly an exact science.

Great anecdotes bro, I didn't get the vaccine all through high school and college and never got the flu. Now I get the vaccine every year in medical school and still haven't gotten the flu. Whoa whoa, I don't even know what to make of that, it's blowing my mind.

Seriously, you need to brush up on those critical thinking skills before you start medical school if you're really a "Future DO". There are legitimate reasons to question the efficacy of the flu vaccine in otherwise healthy young-middle aged adults but your story about you and your friends isn't one of those reasons.
 
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This is just ridiculous. Look at the incidence rates of most of the illnesses we routinely vaccinate against and you'll see that it dramatically dropped off after the introduction of those vaccines.

Duh, coincidence isn't science, derp.

Signed, DO hopeful 2015, derp.
 
Great anecdotes bro, I didn't get the vaccine all through high school and college and never got the flu. Now I get the vaccine every year in medical school and still haven't gotten the flu. Whoa whoa, I don't even know what to make of that, it's blowing my mind.

Seriously, you need to brush up on those critical thinking skills before you start medical school if you're really a "Future DO". There are legitimate reasons to question the efficacy of the flu vaccine in otherwise healthy young-middle aged adults but your story about you and your friends isn't one of those reasons.
It really should be "Future ND".
 
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I haven't posted here in months but your post inspired me. For the love of God (if that's your thing) press your caps lock button. All it takes is one little push. The cool thing is, once you press it, your posts will immediately become more readable, intelligible (maybe) and much less like a crazy 10 year old who just got crushed playing Call of Duty.

You know you wanna push it. Go on now....do it.....if not for me, then for yourself.

You don't know me, but I've missed your face.
 
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SHOW YOU WHAT DATA DUDE! LIKE SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE HERE AND I AM TELLING YOU, YOU HAVE THE WRONG EFFING ONE! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GOOGLE THE **** AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT EEEEEEVERYONE ELSE CAN. CAN YOU READ. READ WTH I SAID. NOT A PROFESSIONAL, NOT CLAIMING FACTS, JUST GIVING PERSPECTIVE ON WHY PEOPLE START TO QUESTION THE VACCINES. I DONT HAVE ANY DATA AND NEVER CLAIMED TO. HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN YOU BE. THIS FORUM IS FOR CRAP, ANYTIME SOMEONE SAYS ANYTHING THAT ISNT TO THE LIKES OF A SCIENCE DRONE ITS ATTACKED. I WAS ASKING FOR YOUR INPUT SO WHAT EXACTLY IS IT THAT YOU WANT FROM ME. I AM GIVING YOU THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE AVERAGE PATIENT THAT MIGHT GO INTO A PEDS OFFICE AND DECLINE A VACCINATION. .....THATS IT! GOT IT! YOURE A FRIGGIN MEDICINE RESIDENT BUT YOU CANT READ? NOT TO MENTION THERE ARE LIKE 5 OTHER THREADS UNDER THIS ONE ON THE SAME TOPIC SO WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE PULLING IT FROM. THEIR ASS? ITS OUT THERE. I NEVER SAID IT WAS FACT, BUT ALL IT TAKES IS A SEED OF DOUBT WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLES KIDS. SAVE YOUR SMART ASS SARCASM. IT IS WASTED HERE.

youre a f*** MD and incapable of responding to something with little more diplomacy than a 10 year old.

homer-all-caps.png
 
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I always like to leave this in vaccine "debate" threads. (summary: "None of the interventions increased parental intent to vaccinate a future child.")

Nobody changes their mind on this issue. The people who are educated stay educated, and the people who choose willful ignorance do so at (obviously) will.

No amount of conversations, educational YouTube videos, or angsty comments will change anybody's mind.

Also, I know someone who got a flu shot, and they were exposed to an ID of influenza, and they didn't even get sick a little, so it totally works 100%.
 
I always like to leave this in vaccine "debate" threads. (summary: "None of the interventions increased parental intent to vaccinate a future child.")

Nobody changes their mind on this issue. The people who are educated stay educated, and the people who choose willful ignorance do so at (obviously) will.

No amount of conversations, educational YouTube videos, or angsty comments will change anybody's mind.

Also, I know someone who got a flu shot, and they were exposed to an ID of influenza, and they didn't even get sick a little, so it totally works 100%.

I know someone with autism who received vaccines!
 
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The problem is that once someone makes some important sounding claims about something there is a type of person who is going to believe it unless you can conclusively prove it isn't so (and they may keep raising bar for what they will accept as proof). Unfortunately many things aren't provable in the randomized trial sense and it is very difficult to prove a negative. So we end up with reasonably intelligent people believing all sorts of stuff that those with a better understanding of the situation just can't understand. That study above about trying to correct misperceptions makes me sad but does not surpise me in the least.
 
The problem is that once someone makes some important sounding claims about something there is a type of person who is going to believe it unless you can conclusively prove it isn't so (and they may keep raising bar for what they will accept as proof). Unfortunately many things aren't provable in the randomized trial sense and it is very difficult to prove a negative. So we end up with reasonably intelligent people believing all sorts of stuff that those with a better understanding of the situation just can't understand. That study above about trying to correct misperceptions makes me sad but does not surpise me in the least.

Read it first=most reliable evidence.
 
This thread is terrible. Like, every single post in it. Including this one.
 
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Pro: They are probably single-handedly responsible for the greatest increase in life expectancy of the human race. More so than any other medical advance in the history of the human race.
Con: Most require a small poke in your arm, that hurts for maybe a half of second.

The end.
Well expect for maybe antibiotics, but otherwise sounds about right.
 
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Well expect for maybe antibiotics, but otherwise sounds about right.

Vaccines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antibiotics in terms of public health initiatives. It's not close. The only thing that might be are things like clean water and/or clean food projects.

As evidence, please name the last illness to be virtually eradicated by antibiotics.
 
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Vaccines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antibiotics in terms of public health initiatives. It's not close. The only thing that might be are things like clean water and/or clean food projects.

As evidence, please name the last illness to be virtually eradicated by antibiotics.

^Yeah, this is true. Antibiotics are like SAS boot camps for bugs - in the end it just makes them stronger, better, faster.

I would have guessed that clean water / sanitation / clean food projects would have had a bigger impact than vaccines, but that's based on nothing other than my own intuition.
 
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